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Thread: Anger Is a Small Thing

  1. #31
    Senior Member NotAPretender's Avatar
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    This might sound dumb but I'm not familiar with female oppression in Latin America of the same kind experienced in the Middle East. From a personal perspective...really...my exposure to the culture which is pretty much dominant in me is that women are very domineering and men are excellent at playing mucho macho but behind closed doors men are perfect sissies and mercilessly henpecked. If one doesn't conform to that cultural pattern beware because hell is awaitin'.

    It has been statistically noted that in Mexico as many as 60-70% of women report domestic abuse...My only response to that is that domestic abuse is the result of a sense of powerlessness not power. Consider that dynamic carefully. In any case, there are many factors to consider from interpersonal dynamics and the end result is that things are never as they seem.
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    Super Moderator United States Dreamtimer's Avatar
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    It's frightening to think about living under such conditions. And we're not at all far removed. That's why, in the chaos thread, I speculated that if an advanced civilization came to visit they'd be led by females. Because civilization, imo, is not really advanced until we move beyond having one gender be subservient to the other.

    And if a civilization can get beyond the ego, then they would have the females lead and represent because they would put communication, cooperation, and compassion ahead of ego and the need to be a 'strong man'.

    Of course, that assumes that another group of beings would have the same kind of issues/character that we do.

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    Senior Member NotAPretender's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    It's frightening to think about living under such conditions. And we're not at all far removed. That's why, in the chaos thread, I speculated that if an advanced civilization came to visit they'd be led by females. Because civilization, imo, is not really advanced until we move beyond having one gender be subservient to the other.

    And if a civilization can get beyond the ego, then they would have the females lead and represent because they would put communication, cooperation, and compassion ahead of ego and the need to be a 'strong man'.

    Of course, that assumes that another group of beings would have the same kind of issues/character that we do.
    lol, FemiNazi ...
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  7. #34
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    Quote Originally posted by NotAPretender View Post
    This might sound dumb but I'm not familiar with female oppression in Latin America of the same kind experienced in the Middle East. From a personal perspective...really...my exposure to the culture which is pretty much dominant in me is that women are very domineering and men are excellent at playing mucho macho but behind closed doors men are perfect sissies and mercilessly henpecked. If one doesn't conform to that cultural pattern beware because hell is awaitin'.

    It has been statistically noted that in Mexico as many as 60-70% of women report domestic abuse...My only response to that is that domestic abuse is the result of a sense of powerlessness not power. Consider that dynamic carefully. In any case, there are many factors to consider from interpersonal dynamics and the end result is that things are never as they seem.
    I was primarily referring to various fascist dictatorships that thrived in that region in the last century. These tend to be oppressive in general, but women are often the ones bearing the brunt of it, as well as various minorities. The connecting tissue between all of them, as well as Mussolini's Italy and Fascist Spain and Portugal, seems to the misogynistic and totalitarian attitudes propagated by the Roman Church.

    Even Nazi Germany had an unholy alliance with Rome. In my own country, fascism and the Roman Church had a significant alliance as well, often working hand in hand, not least in the disempowerment and eventual mass murder of Jews.

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  9. #35
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    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    It's frightening to think about living under such conditions. And we're not at all far removed. That's why, in the chaos thread, I speculated that if an advanced civilization came to visit they'd be led by females. Because civilization, imo, is not really advanced until we move beyond having one gender be subservient to the other.

    And if a civilization can get beyond the ego, then they would have the females lead and represent because they would put communication, cooperation, and compassion ahead of ego and the need to be a 'strong man'.

    Of course, that assumes that another group of beings would have the same kind of issues/character that we do.
    I think you're confusing biological sex with what I would describe as the male and female creative principle in the universe. You could call it Shiva and Shakti or Yin and Yang. These can be out of balance in any individual, irrespective of their biological sex (I use sex instead of gender for a very good reason). The problem with the world today isn't that men run it (mostly), but that the people who run it, whether men or women, are actually out of balance within themselves and are dominated by the male principle at the expense of the female one.

    That is why I find feminism so destructive, because it prescribes precisely the wrong remedy to this problem. Instead of trying to rebalance the world by strengthening the female principle, it does the opposite and propagates masculinity, especially in women. That is the last thing we need right now, both men and women are desperately short of femininity, or the Goddess Energy, if that's what you prefer. We need more people who are at balance, neither there male, nor their female side dominates, but they cooperate harmoniously and have strengths and weaknesses in different areas.


    As for Alien societies, I suspect some are run by Queens, much like insects, or the Borg in Star Trek, but that is unlikely to be a good thing in and of itself. It is not the sex of the leaders of these societies that I'm concerned with, but the overall balance within themselves and hence their benevolence or lack thereof.

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  11. #36
    Super Moderator United States Dreamtimer's Avatar
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    I never joined any feminist organizations. I appreciate the fight for rights for women. But I fight on my own terms rather than by joining feminist groups. The big thing for me is anger towards men. We can't make progress if we're steeped in anger.

    So I socialize with and have many male friends. That way they can find out first-hand the value of women as intelligent people.

    The best examples we have come from Native Americans. The women decided whether they would war because it was their sons going to fight. The sachems, which were chiefs and representatives were often women. Something the European men had a lot of difficulty with.

    The six nations of the finger lakes were a large inspiration for our Constitution, based on their millennium-long peace treaty. The Europeans just didn't have that kind of model to base their new ideas upon.
    Last edited by Dreamtimer, 9th November 2018 at 15:03.

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  13. #37
    Senior Member Fred Steeves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    That's why, in the chaos thread, I speculated that if an advanced civilization came to visit they'd be led by females. Because civilization, imo, is not really advanced until we move beyond having one gender be subservient to the other.
    This may well be taken as another example of projection, but I can't read the above statement any other way than the classic "doublethink", as made famous in Orwell's "1984".

    If advanced civilization should be women led, doesn't that by definition make one gender (men in this case), subservient to the other?

    Doublethink:

    "As used in 1984, the concept of doublethink is the ability to hold two completely contradictory thoughts simultaneously while believing both to be true".
    The unexamined life is not worth living.

    Socrates

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    Quote Originally posted by Melidae View Post
    I can see how anger can be a kind of addiction, or at the very least, a habit. Some people have difficulty saying what they feel they need to to someone for whatever reason, and need the impetus of anger to let it out. Eventually, it can become an excuse to say whatever you please to people because 'after all, I was angry'. It can even be used to control others.
    Yes, human beings are creatures of habit. Living in an unconscious state is habitual behavior. All habits, whether deemed 'good' habits, or 'bad', are done through an unconscious state of mind.

    Becoming overwhelmed by one's pent-up emotional release and one drops deeper into an unconscious state. Logic is often times quite difficult to come by.

    With the explosive release of pent-up energy comes a deep period of relaxation within the body-mind mechanism. With a heavy crying session, one also finds a deep relaxation coming in, as in the wake of ocean wave after such a release. A great crescendo - the crest in a wave - will naturally yield a complementary trough - an after effect of deep relaxation floods in. This can set up a reason for revisiting & establishing a desire to repeat this in future. Hence, making a habit out of this kind of actvity.

    It takes awareness in order to understand what is actually taking place in order to not fall into this sort of repeating, habit of behavior. With more awareness, observation of what is taking place, and an understanding becomes relevant. The crests become less, and the trough of the emotional wave will also become less.

    This is science. Witnessing what is taking place within oneself is a subjective science. It is a science of the soul.

    Last edited by turiya, 9th November 2018 at 19:40.

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    Super Moderator United States Dreamtimer's Avatar
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    I brought up the Native American ways because they were cooperative, both sexes were involved in important decision making.

    I was really trying to convey the idea that women would manage things and represent, not rule over the other gender. Women are a less threatening presentation, at least with primates.

    If we were mantis beings (forget Mr. Parks) then that might not be so good as the females are way bigger and I think they eat the males.

    That's not advanced at all.


    I could have laid down money that you'd respond that way Fred. Where is my bookie?

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    Senior Member Fred Steeves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    That's why, in the chaos thread, I speculated that if an advanced civilization came to visit they'd be led by females. Because civilization, imo, is not really advanced until we move beyond having one gender be subservient to the other.
    Quote Originally posted by Fred Steeves View Post
    This may well be taken as another example of projection, but I can't read the above statement any other way than the classic "doublethink", as made famous in Orwell's "1984".

    If advanced civilization should be women led, doesn't that by definition make one gender (men in this case), subservient to the other?

    Doublethink:

    "As used in 1984, the concept of doublethink is the ability to hold two completely contradictory thoughts simultaneously while believing both to be true".
    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    I brought up the Native American ways because they were cooperative, both sexes were involved in important decision making.

    I was really trying to convey the idea that women would manage things and represent, not rule over the other gender. Women are a less threatening presentation, at least with primates.
    That may well be dear lady. But that's not what you actually said. This is the last time I will do so, but I've been pointing out a pattern of you giving very strong opinions about certain things, then turning right around and saying that you have said nothing of the kind. I truly do not think you see this.

    If you weren't in a position of authority as a moderator I would just whistle on by. But IMO by being in that position as a deemed problem solver and decision maker, you should be held to a higher standard.

    Quote Originally posted by Fred Steeves View Post
    I could have laid down money that you'd respond that way Fred. Where is my bookie?
    I call 'em like I see 'em. If I'm just barking at the night, it will be obvious to the astute reader.
    The unexamined life is not worth living.

    Socrates

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  21. #41
    Super Moderator United States Dreamtimer's Avatar
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    I'm not choosing my words so precisely that they can be parsed, Fred. And that is what you do. I have tried, clumsily, to express these ideas before. I don't always do so well. And you seem to zero in on the worst interpretations. Which is why I said what I said.

    I have no strong position on the matter, it's just speculation as I've said before. It's a thing of imagination, wondering about advanced cultures/civilizations.

    You also accused me of having extreme positions regarding the 'both sides' nonsense when I was offering up someone else's idea for discussion which weren't even mine.

    And your reaction to a typical protest song was to say that the young lady had extreme views. It was strange to me, which I said clearly. You gave neither reply nor explanation.

    You've never even explained what you think is extreme, you just imply that there's something wrong with how I think. I wasn't using double-speak above, I was speculating without holding any position. What position is there to hold? Maybe advanced civilizations have no gender or both. How much does it even matter?

    It's always interesting to me when others try to analyze my mind and emotions. Because in the process they reveal much about themselves. Very few here have zeroed into my actual state of mind. It's not as easy as some like to think.

    But I'm glad you finally expressed what you really feel instead of beating around the bush. People here have been as free as possible to express their views. I do not walk on peoples' toes. I stay out of a great many discussions. We moderate as a group.

    All of us have a right to both express strong views and change our minds as we learn, which is what adults do.

    As it happens, I have a moderate stance on most issues and believe strongly in cooperation. That's why the mod team here has worked so well for so long. Maybe you know other forums that have had such stable mod teams, although I doubt it. It's a thankless job which can take a lot of time and offers neither pay nor status. It is what it is and this is a small forum.

    In my personal life, I have very little conflict. No one who actually knows me thinks I have any kind of extreme views nor do they think I use double-speak.

    As Modwiz has said many times, the written word leaves much to be desired.

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  23. #42
    Senior Member NotAPretender's Avatar
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    Here's my view...ForWhatever It's Worth:

    Dreamtimer, you have good values and they are reflected in what you post...there's nothing wrong with that. Since we we are astrologically similar maybe I have a little insight. Do, think, and act in a compassionate fair way and all is good. If extreme views are presented whether from the right or left, you are there to swing the balance. That makes good sense to me.

    Trump is an extreme abomination to all that is holy in creation. And you are there to point it out, to counter the evil for the sake of the good. Nothing extreme about that...
    "We are one thought away from changing the world!"

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  25. #43
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    Quote Originally posted by Fred Steeves View Post
    "As used in 1984..."

    Speaking of 1984...


    The 'Two Minutes of Hate' scene in the 1984 movie is actually the perfect exercise - as a health care practice - that societies across this planet need to adopt as an acceptable means for releasing pent-up emotions. The only thing that would need to be added to this, would be to have this type of exercise prolonged to, perhaps, ~ 15 minutes, then bring it to an abrupt halt - say, with one loud drum beat - then, each member of the group to bring their attention to focus (with closed eyes) on the silence that is found within themselves, which would be then more easily accessible. The sense of 'being' is more easily attainable.

    This is combining a cathartic therapy session and using it in conjunction with a period of meditation. Throwing out the emotional garbage is the first step. This naturally leaves behind, in its wake, an empty silence within the individual. The noise of the mind has been removed, leaving behind a calm, still lake of silence.



    It would be of utmost importance for everyone within the group to participate in such a meditative therapeutic exercise. Otherwise, those who do not participate would subject themselves to receiving the emotional garbage that others are spewing out from within themselves. Note that in this particular scene, actors Richard Burton & John Hurt, themselves, are of the few that are not participating with the others, but for the most part, are simply watching what others are doing.

    The stigma that this Orwellian movie has left behind would, of course, be a hurdle that would need to be overcome, before this practice would be able to be widely accepted. The 1984 movie has left behind the notion in the minds of many that such a practice would be a hard thing to accept. Albeit, it is the most civilized approach to maintaining mental & physical health in a social situation that has many people living within close proximity with each other.

    Last edited by turiya, 10th November 2018 at 16:33.

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  27. #44
    Senior Member NotAPretender's Avatar
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    ok Turiya,

    Upfront I will tell you I'm gunning for you, but trust that I will do it in an open-minded fair and balanced way...so far I haven't nailed you down but I am willing to admit that there might be more to you than 1st indicated. Why don't you reveal more about who you are and what you do in your life, and what your goals are. We might even find level ground to have a real discussion. What do you say?

    NAP

    I'll start...

    I'm 'merican...
    "We are one thought away from changing the world!"

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  29. #45
    Senior Member Fred Steeves's Avatar
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    That's interesting take on the two minutes of hate scene turiya. Sure, why not? Thing is though I don't think it need be incorporated society wide, maybe more for groups people with anger issues could join. Same as there is no need for people who don't drink to go to AA meetings.
    The unexamined life is not worth living.

    Socrates

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