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Thread: Satanic Witchcraft in TV and Movies

  1. #16
    Administrator Aragorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Chris View Post
    [...] to me it isn't even clear that Crowley was a Satanist. I think he may have just been an occultist, though he did summon some pretty powerful demons and spirits in his secluded home in Scotland. [...]
    Well, he did refer to himself as the Beast, as per the Biblical Apocalypse. So I think it's safe to say that he was most definitely a satanist.
    = DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR =

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    Senior Member Fred Steeves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    What's really going on, of course, is that she's not 'winning' the argument. She doesn't want to discuss. She wants to be right and win. And she can't deal with not having the upper hand.
    Sure that happens at times, but by no means every time. Other times a person can simply see the proverbial handwriting on the wall that continuing said conversation is a dead end, say so, and promptly move on without needlessly wasting more of one's time.
    The unexamined life is not worth living.

    Socrates

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    Member on Sabbatical Morocco modwiz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Fred Steeves View Post
    Sure that happens at times, but by no means every time. Other times a person can simply see the proverbial handwriting on the wall that continuing said conversation is a dead end, say so, and promptly move on without needlessly wasting more of one's time.
    Very true, Fred. Projection onto others of ones own 'issues' is another factor.
    "To learn who rules over you simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize" -- Voltaire

    "Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people."-- Eleanor Roosevelt

    "Misery loves company. Wisdom has to look for it." -- Anonymous

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    Quote Originally posted by Aragorn View Post
    Well, he did refer to himself as the Beast, as per the Biblical Apocalypse. So I think it's safe to say that he was most definitely a satanist.
    That is a good point, yes. I guess he was then... At least on a wannabe level, if nothing else. It is interesting that the guy is still kept in such high regard in certain circles. He founded the Ordo Templo Oriensis magickal secret society (some famous members: Beyonce and Jay-Z) and it is still going strong. I know bookstores in London that are dedicated mostly to this stuff, not just in terms of books but also other accessories, even clothing items.

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    Administrator Aragorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Chris View Post
    Quote Originally posted by Aragorn View Post
    Well, he did refer to himself as the Beast, as per the Biblical Apocalypse. So I think it's safe to say that he was most definitely a satanist.
    That is a good point, yes. I guess he was then... At least on a wannabe level, if nothing else. It is interesting that the guy is still kept in such high regard in certain circles. He founded the Ordo Templo Oriensis magickal secret society (some famous members: Beyonce and Jay-Z) and it is still going strong. I know bookstores in London that are dedicated mostly to this stuff, not just in terms of books but also other accessories, even clothing items.
    I don't want to downplay the risks of getting involved with satanism and/or occultism, but part of me is wondering whether Hollywood's (and the music industry's) infatuation with occultism wouldn't be merely just another fashion thing. Occultism and the whole Illuminati meme are "in" these days. If tomorrow it's Christianity which sells best, then they're probably going to be into that.

    I may be oversimplifying things, and again, I don't want to downplay the seriousness of satanism and occultism, but I think you know what I mean.
    = DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR =

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    Quote Originally posted by Aragorn View Post
    I don't want to downplay the risks of getting involved with satanism and/or occultism, but part of me is wondering whether Hollywood's (and the music industry's) infatuation with occultism wouldn't be merely just another fashion thing. Occultism and the whole Illuminati meme are "in" these days. If tomorrow it's Christianity which sells best, then they're probably going to be into that.

    I may be oversimplifying things, and again, I don't want to downplay the seriousness of satanism and occultism, but I think you know what I mean.
    That is certainly something to consider. I think people who were brought up with a Christian background are particularly prone to what is called "Satanic Panic". I have certainly noticed that some fundamentalist Christians in particular tend to attribute pretty innocent pursuits or phenomena to the devil. They will see Harry Potter or Rock Music as Satanic for instance, that kind of stuff.

    It is very hard to tell what is real and what isn't, simply because the amount of research needed to verify something is pretty impossible to do if you lead a normal life. I have come across quite a few Satanic hoaxes and panics as I was researching this subject. One in particular that stuck with me, was David Icke's insistence on the authenticity of a document on how Satanic Lodges run the world, which allegedly came from an Australian satanist.

    After doing some digging and finding the source, as well as the pseudonym the guy uses (which is Aloysius Fozdyke and his alleged satanist material was published on Henry Makow's site), it became clear that this was a hoax and the guy was just a troll. Yet, a lot of people still base their opinions on the matter on this hoax, still promoted by Ickey as fact, when it is nothing of the sort.

    I think the important part here is not to get hung up on the "Satan" part and its religious connotations. That is just a title anyway (it means "against god") and most likely refers to a group of entities, the watchers, who may or may not be malevolent. It is in fact similar to the term Tok'Ra in Stargate SG1, where it means against RA (the Sun God) and refers to a group of rebel "gods" who are opposed to the tyranny of Ra and are actually the good guys in the context of the series. I often wonder if this isn't in fact the case with the group known as the Watchers. I honestly don't know.

    However, the issue here is whether people in power use magic rituals to contact entities that will do their bidding. In order to determine that, you have to know with some certainty, whether that would work. I can tell you from my own experience, that it does, whether you view that as a good or bad thing, entities that you develop a personal relationship with, will in fact be happy to help you out and do things for you, as friends would do. This has nothing to do with the dark stuff in itself, but as a principle, it shows you that both negative and positive entities have the power to basically fulfil wishes. This is in fact what praying mostly does.

    If you accept that entities can fulfil wishes and make people successful, then it stands to reason that many people who are in positions of power, privilege, wealth and success have gotten there through this method.

    Looking at it from the perspective of other religions, we know that sacrifice is an effective way of achieving material goals. Even today, Voodoo and Tantric priests will sacrifice animals and on very rare occasions even humans to achieve a certain material goal. Both in Haiti and India, politicians widely use this method to achieve electoral success (usually by paying a priest to sacrifice a goat or a chicken). I doubt they would be doing this, if it weren't effective. I think we can agree that in principle, this can work and that puts a whole another slant on the whole thing.

    Taking it to the next level, I do wonder why musicians and other artists, who are widely successful, feel it necessary to include various occult symbols in their art. Why is it that they perform what are undoubtedly magic rituals in crowded locations where often millions of people are paying attention to them? I really can't accept that this would be mere coincidence and that they aren't knowingly performing magic, either to achieve a goal, or as a thank you, even service to forces that put them into positions of power and success. If you think about it, religious rituals do the exact same thing. At this level, there is no difference between religion and magic, they are doing the same thing and probably even serving the same unseen forces.

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    Interesting that I brought up the Satanic Panic issue and it turns out that the Satanic Temple, the organisation that put up a statue of Satan / Baphomet in Detroit, is suing Netflix for this very reason. To be fair, the producer of the Chilling Adventures of Sabrina series inserted an exact recreation of the Detroit statue into the set, so I suspect Netflix will have to settle at the very least.


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    Lack of time prevents me from delving into this issue in more detail, but it is an important one. I do feel that a number of TV-shows (and a smaller number of Movies) do an excellent job of presenting reality as it is rather than how we would like it to be. There is some really dark and scary stuff that we have to confront and fight.

    I feel that overall the TV-series Buffy, the Vampire Slayer is actually the closest one to presenting the real picture about how the world works and our actual place in it. A lot of the mythical and magical creatures shown in the series are meant to be allegories of various teenage problems, but they do end up being far more accurate than perhaps the creators themselves intended. I know that the show's creator, Joss Whedon, does not believe in any of this stuff (at least that's what he says publicly), but he does end up highlighting a lot of uncomfortable truths about the world we live in, perhaps inadvertently.


    In the series, there are entire Hell and Demon dimensions, with eternal suffering and where time passes a lot quicker than on earth. A century might pass in these dimensions, whereas for us only a few days may have gone by. There are extra-, as well as subterrestrials who are really the ones running our world from the background. It is never made explicit, but it is at least inferred that subterrestrial civilisations are shifted into a parallel dimension or reality.


    The entire 7-season series is worth watching, it is not only entertaining, but highly educational. Some of the plotlines and the way certain entities and practices (such as magick) are depicted can be a bit silly or overly crude, but it doesn't take away from the overall picture. I might post some clips on this thread if I can find suitable ones on youtube.

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    Super Moderator United States Dreamtimer's Avatar
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    I don't want to derail your intentions at all, Chris, and I just can't help mentioning the episode that was a musical and they all sang. I don't even recall the plot because I was just blown away at the musical approach to the episode.

    I watched the show a bit here and there, but not enough to notice what you say. Do you know if this was continued in the Angel spinoff?

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    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    I don't want to derail your intentions at all, Chris, and I just can't help mentioning the episode that was a musical and they all sang. I don't even recall the plot because I was just blown away at the musical approach to the episode.

    I watched the show a bit here and there, but not enough to notice what you say. Do you know if this was continued in the Angel spinoff?
    Yes, that is one of my favourite episodes It's called Once more, with Feeling.

    It demonstrates some of the themes I'm discussing here. A hell-creature (a demon or a devil) is summoned from the underworld. It is humanoid, has a physical body and lusts after human females (I'm told from other sources, people who claim to be in direct contact with the demons of the underworld, that this is in fact very common). The story with the watchers or fallen angels, is in fact that their downfall was brought about directly through their sexual contact with human, earth women.

    The summoning is done as a sort of magic ritual with an amulet, containing the sigil of the demon in question playing a central role. The Demon actually has an assigned role (entertainment) that he's specifically responsible for. The rest of the episode is rather light-hearted, but the themes are important.


    It is also important to point out that music and entertainment is often associated with underworld creatures, which is probably why many religions are so opposed to it and magic / withcraft plays such a central role in the entertainment and music industries. The Book of Enoch mentions for instance that Azazel, the leader of the Watchers taught humans witchcraft, music, make-up and the art of making weapons and warfare.


    I haven't really gotten into Angel, but I believe the overall themes are very similar.

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    Super Moderator United States Dreamtimer's Avatar
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    Music also has the power of beauty and healing. The human mind is touched by music in ways that no other stimulus does.

    Is there not also music in 'heaven?

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    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    Music also has the power of beauty and healing. The human mind is touched by music in ways that no other stimulus does.

    Is there not also music in 'heaven?
    Yes, indeed, my point is simply that music is often associated with "Satan". That is why in hardline Islamic countries music and dancing is forbidden and listening to music or dancing can get you executed. Many fundamentalist Christians also look at music with suspicion, especially if it involves dancing. Things aren't black and white, I don't believe that any entity is purely evil or purely good. All of us have a mixture of both. Same with Music. It isn't good or evil in itself, though certainly it can be used for both benevolent and nefarious purposes. If anything, when it comes to Music (and having fun), I'm more in sympathy with the "Devil" than with "God".

    I'm putting these terms in parentheses, as they are such meaningless terms anyways. They really are a matter of perspective.

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    Super Moderator United States Dreamtimer's Avatar
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    Like I put 'heaven' in quotes. The firebrands in my country will have already decided whether or not I'm going there while knowing nothing about me other than church and attendance level.

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    Quote Originally posted by Chris View Post
    It is up to you of course, but I do prefer discussions where some opposing viewpoints are compared and contrasted. You really don't have to stay off my threads, I would really welcome your input.

    As for said historical figures, I did have interactions with entities that claimed to be ancient deities. It has been proven to my satisfaction that they were real and not just a figment of my imagination as they also visited and interacted with others, which included physical touch and healing, despite their invisibility. However, I cannot in any way prove that they were who they claimed they were. Some appeared to be benevolent, others not so much. I interacted with them in various ways, including channelling, but also an energetic link similar to a Vulcan mind-meld, where we exchanged thoughts, emotions, pictures and visions.

    None of these methods of communication are particularly reliable, and all have limitations. However, for the sake of maintaining a conversation and an exchange of thought, I do have to assume, at least for now, that said entities were who they said they were and that most of our conversations, at least in broad terms, if not with all the minute details, were an accurate representation of their real thoughts and opinions.

    The entities I had interactions with were Inanna-Ishtar, Azazel, Ereshkigal, Utu-Shamash and Archangel Gabriel (very briefly). Through Inanna, I also connected to a collective consciousness calling itself the Elohim. I realise that this sounds rather sketchy, but I can only report on what I was told, others then can decide whether they want to believe the claims of these entities or not.
    Hi Chris,

    What was your impression about the nature of the Archangel Gabriel. I just want to proffer a tangential opinion here. The bible has a saying, paraphrasing, "In the eyes of the Lord all sins are equally grave". My interpretation of that is that the 'motivation of the sin' is the sin not the actual act or result. Given that we live a very illusory existence where potentially the only real thing is consciousness then physical manifestations tend to not be the main point of creation. Consequently, we have to make judgments of 'motivation' beyond what we conceive as ostensibly physical beings.

    So anyway...Is Gabriel good or bad?
    "We are one thought away from changing the world!"

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    Senior Member NotAPretender's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    Can I cast a spell to raise my IQ?

    But seriously, has there been a show where magic is positive? The only one I can think of is Charmed. They fought demons and were not allowed to use magic for self-serving needs.

    There were even white lighters who were guides and guardians.

    But mostly, I think the show was a platform for showing off fashion and nubile young females.
    I"m good with that. Terms really, good or evil, accurate perception, persona, I'm cool and you're not, etc. I'm a Kingian at heart...Rodney King that is..."Can't we all just get along!". My gain is not your loss. Most of us claim to be 'enlightened', except for those that will not or cannot, so why can't we see that one person's gain is everyone's gain, if the motivation is pure, it is the only thing that makes creation a viable enterprise.
    "We are one thought away from changing the world!"

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