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  1. #871
    Senior Member BeastOfBologna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Chris View Post
    Just to rile y'all up...

    https://kunstler.com/clusterfuck-nat...of-shadowland/

    In the Shadows of Shadowland

    Is there some kind of game on in the USA? Have our public affairs ever looked so false and disordered? Is it ever more wondrous that Joe Biden somehow managed to win the Super Tuesday primary, let alone the national election?

    The country has gotten exactly what it saw all through the autumn of 2020: the empty shell of a broken politician. Back in October, Ol’ Joe hiding in his basement was played as a bad joke in a nervous zeitgeist. Nothing to see, according to the captive news media. Wasn’t that exactly it, though? Nothing to see and nobody home, the essence of our now-president, Joe Biden. How on earth did this happen?

    My own theory: it was the strange byproduct of the political establishment fumbling to cover up its crimes, an endeavor so transparently inept that the rest of the world goggles at us in nauseated incredulity, watching our leadership flounder, our institutions fail, our economy vaporize, and our power dissolve, like a some dying blob in an epic horror movie. Even our most devoted adversary, North Korea, marvels out loud at the spectacle of American collapse. They joke about it, but it must make them awfully uncomfortable to realize that the USA runs under a shadow government, and runs so ineptly!

    Who or what is this shadow government? I’d say it amounts to a small group around former president Obama and former attorney general Eric Holder, plus a coterie of Intel Community figures led by John Brennan, all awkwardly funneling instructions through Susan Rice to the hacks in the White House, who form a flimsy cocoon around the barely-pulsating organism within: Mr. Biden. I will boldly suggest that this cabal is actually controlling the executive branch of the government, and doing it with stunning incompetence. If it sounds like a conspiracy, that’s probably because it is a conspiracy.

    What were those crimes of theirs? Mainly the actions they took the past four years to cover-up their intense and sedulous ongoing corruption of previous years, especially all the channels of moneygrubbing that ran from Wall Street and K Street through the halls of Congress, and secondarily their political agenda to destroy by any means necessary the opposition vested in a weak and ineffectual Republican Party at odds with its own elected leader, Mr. Trump.

    The “means” turned out to be one dishonest exploit after another aimed at disabling and eliminating the uncontrollable Mr. Trump: RussiaGate, the Flynn case, the Mueller Investigation, Ukraine Phone Call Gate (impeachment No. 1), Coronavirus hysteria, identity politics hysteria (including the 2020 summer riots), the social media companies’ censorship and “cancellation” initiative, and, finally, the engineered ballot fraud in the 2020 national election, with a re-play in the Georgia senatorial special election of January, 2021. How did you miss all this?

    I think it worked this way: John Brennan’s CIA enlisted a desperately failing news media in an ideological campaign to propagandize and lie to the American public based on Brennan’s own past ideological disposition as a self-declared “communist.” Yes, he actually said that about himself, though his Marxism and that of his allies was a mash-up of foolish utopianisms used to cover a sheer wish to annihilate any opposition frustrating their will-to-power. I’d venture to suppose that Mr. Brennan continued to influence and even direct these agit-prop operations long after he was removed as CIA Director, even as he fought off accusations for his role in helping Hillary Clinton gin up RussiaGate.

    Hillary’s crimes in particular, especially her Uranium One deal and the Skolkovo scam, involved large networks of accomplices in the State Department and in Intel, including the FBI when it was under Robert Mueller, and since they were conducted under the Obama administration, they implicated Mr. Obama too, and many around him. People-of-color and the gender-muddled were useful idiots in the game to bamboozle the public, and were allowed to turn their own grievances into lucrative hustles. Thus, everything became a “racist” and “sexist” boobytrap used to nullify anybody seeing through this game, while garnering new social advantages and large sums of money for the aggrieved, especially the Black Lives Matter org.

    All of these cynical power games were, and still are, playing out against the very real collapse of America’s economy and culture. That is the part of the story that nobody controls or can even hope to control. The manufacturing part of the economy has been going-going-gone for forty years, but Coronavirus paranoia has been mobilized to destroy any remaining small business or service, leaving the shell of a commercial sector represented only by rapacious chain stores. The oil industry is on the ropes, confounded by the high costs of getting shale oil out of the ground and the shortage of investor money for an obviously profitless activity. All that’s really left are the financial rackets tied to the Federal Reserve and Wall Street — and they amount to the sheerest vapor given the de-linking of capital formation from genuine productive activity.

    Last week’s antics featured two dazzling failures of American diplomacy under the Obama-Biden shadow government: the president’s stupid obloquies against Vladimir Putin, and Secretary of State Antony Blinken’s feckless negotiation with China — in which China nullified our “human rights” complaints involving the Uyghurs on account of America’s incessantly self-declared “systemic racism.” Coming up this week, Joe Biden’s long-delayed premiere “news conference.” Even though the “questions” are all pre-submitted and vetted, and the answers will be scrolling on a teleprompter, Mr. Biden will be working without a net. His handlers must be cross-eyed with anxiety over what might happen. Pretty soon, the game will be up. The election fraud story won’t go away against all efforts to suppress it. The shadow government will get outed as the nation sinks deeper into economic and civil disorder, and some people will have to do something.
    He's doing at least average for a President ...

    The Golden One required a new scale ... kind of like his schooling days.
    “But those who have been under the shadow, who have gone down at last to elemental things, will have a wider charity” - Herbert George Wells -

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  3. #872
    Super Moderator United States Dreamtimer's Avatar
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    After the attempts to overturn the election, the storming of the Capitol, and the gross lies of our leadership, the stuff Kuntzler is talking about seems nearly irrelevant. Like really old news.

    We continue to have mass shootings, one of our two parties seems to think that helping people in any way is evil socialism, and now folks who told the lies which led to the sedition are saying that anyone who believed them is just stupid. See Kraken-lady, and Sucker Carlson.

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  5. #873
    Super Moderator United States Dreamtimer's Avatar
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    Something needs to collapse.

    (the man was limping with a blood covered leg, likely not completely unharmed)


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  7. #874
    Administrator Aragorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    Something needs to collapse.
    It will. As I've already alluded to many times by now, there's no way this situation is going to get resolved without a full collapse. No US government is ever going to change things, and the American people themselves aren't open to change either, courtesy of their brainwashing with American Exceptionalism and their denial of anything being wrong. And remember, elected officials are people too; they too have been brainwashed.

    So the system is going to have to run its due course toward self-destruction. And it will ─ it's inevitable.
    = DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR =

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  9. #875
    Super Moderator United States Dreamtimer's Avatar
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    What then? Who becomes the Superpower? Anyone?

    What happens to the petrodollar?

    As soon as we're seen as weak, many nations will move to take power. Is it another World War?

    What's the end game after collapse? Is there one?

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  11. #876
    Super Moderator Wind's Avatar
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    If I may give my opinions...

    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    What then? Who becomes the Superpower? Anyone?
    China has been becoming extremely powerful... CCP is absolutely terrible.

    As soon as we're seen as weak, many nations will move to take power. Is it another World War?
    I would not rule out major global wars, they have happened before so why not again? People are still as dumb and greedy as ever.

    Only now the weapons are capable of total mutual annihilation, nuclear deterrence has worked so far though.

    What's the end game after collapse? Is there one?
    Only God knows. A better society or Earth turned to ash? To me the long term or even the short term future doesn't look good.
    Last edited by Wind, 23rd March 2021 at 14:53.

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  13. #877
    Administrator Aragorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    What then? Who becomes the Superpower? Anyone?
    Probably the Russians or the Chinese. Not that such would be desirable, of course, but they're definitely both opportunistic enough to not let that occasion pass them by.

    On the other hand, you are now making it sound as if there needs to be a superpower, and all practical considerations aside ─ cfr. the eagerness of the Russians and the Chinese to assume that role in the event of a vacancy ─ that is not a vantage I myself subscribe to. I believe in an egalitarian world, not in a world dominated by a single nation and its arsenal of nuclear weapons.

    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    What happens to the petrodollar?
    It will slowly but steadily lose its power and be replaced by something else. Hell, it might even be the Euro, and perhaps that would not be such a bad thing.

    Not that I'm happy about how the EU operates, but the EU has taken its place on the global theater without invading any sovereign nations or threatening them with military action. All military operations carried out by EU countries since the inception of the EU itself have all been under the NATO flag, and thus in the service of Uncle Sam and his imperialistic war machine.

    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    As soon as we're seen as weak, many nations will move to take power. Is it another World War?
    Not necessarily a war. Not every country is as trigger-happy as the USA. But there might be some other kind of power struggle, yes ─ most likely an economic one. On the other hand, maybe things can be sorted out peacefully. That too is an option ─ one in which the EU could become an important catalyst, if they have the acuity of mind.

    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    What's the end game after collapse? Is there one?
    Well, on account of the USA, the country would have to be rebuilt. But it would have to be done right this time, without any of that insular and conservative nonsense that both the Democrats and the Republicans are guilty of. And that's going to be very hard, but perhaps after the toll that the collapse will inevitably take, there might be more willingness and more sanity ─ emphasis on "might be".

    It's difficult to predict such things in advance. The only thing we can be certain of is that the collapse is inevitable. It happened to Ancient Greece, it happened to the Romans, it happened to Hitler's Third Reich, and one can already see the signs of decay in today's US American Empire. It really doesn't take a genius to spot that.

    Perhaps it won't be during our lifetime anymore, or perhaps it will be, but it's either way definitely headed down the pike, and there's no escaping from it. The storming of the Capitol was only the beginning, and it exposed ─ albeit only to the rest of the world, not to American society itself ─ the degree of brainwashing, the gullibility and the quite frankly truly barbaric nature of an alarmingly large segment of the US population.
    = DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR =

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  15. #878
    Senior Member Fred Steeves's Avatar
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    I'm surprised our "Team D" cheering section hasn't just nipped this one in the bud once and for all. America will continue to lead and keep the peace throughout the world as it's champion superpower, and will be just fine at home as well, so long as we continue to be blessed with fresh, bold visionaries from the democratic party the likes of our current Biden/Harris administration.

    It's a no brainer actually, which should put an end to any more speculation on the topic of collapse. The good guys are back at the helm!
    The unexamined life is not worth living.

    Socrates

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  17. #879
    Senior Member Hungary
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    Good discussion.

    My take:

    This isn't just about the USA, but what is generally referred to as "The International Community" or more generally, The West.

    It isn't partisan or political either, the problems are systemic. It may even be, that industrial civilisation as a whole, globally, is ripe for collapse. You will probably only find about it when you realise there is no electricity, no internet, no cell phone signal, no nothing. You won't even know what happened and how it came about for years or decades. You'll probably be too busy finding new and creative ways to survive, gathering, hunting, trapping, fishing, trying to grow your own food, that sort of thing.

    The USA seems like it is the most likely candidate for Domino Numero Uno, but we may yet be surprised at what triggers the whole process and where it comes from. I'm not at all convinced that China and Russia are in such great shape as they are often believed to be. The Russian economy is tiny and mostly based on raw material production and agriculture, whereas China has a huge debt bubble and malinvestment problem as far as the eye can see. It looks very much like Japan is the eighties, before that particular bubble burst.

    Europe may actually muddle along, because it is the most sustainable of all the areas mentioned. I'd hate to be in Singapore when Industrial society collapses, that city is just plain old going to starve once the containers full of stuff stop rolling in. Most big cities might suffer a similar, if less dramatic fate, depending on the ability of the central government (the smaller scale, the better) to get food from the countryside into the cities, in whatever way it can manage, using horses, mules, coolies and whatnot. Some places may be lucky enough to keep the lights on and keep the railway system operating. We shall see.
    Last edited by Chris, 23rd March 2021 at 18:51.

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  19. #880
    Senior Member BeastOfBologna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Fred Steeves View Post
    I'm surprised our "Team D" cheering section hasn't just nipped this one in the bud once and for all. America will continue to lead and keep the peace throughout the world as it's champion superpower, and will be just fine at home as well, so long as we continue to be blessed with fresh, bold visionaries from the democratic party the likes of our current Biden/Harris administration.

    It's a no brainer actually, which should put an end to any more speculation on the topic of collapse. The good guys are back at the helm!
    “But those who have been under the shadow, who have gone down at last to elemental things, will have a wider charity” - Herbert George Wells -

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  21. #881
    Super Moderator United States Dreamtimer's Avatar
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    Where are the team D champions? I can't find them.

    But I do know that progressives are not happy with Biden. Not that I expected them to be.

    Considering he had no transition, no honeymoon, and the usual shit-show handed to him by his friends across the aisle, I'm still in wait-and-see mode.

    But it is fun to watch the knee-jerks of folks who think they know exactly what's going on.

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  23. #882
    Super Moderator United States Dreamtimer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Aragorn View Post
    Probably the Russians or the Chinese. Not that such would be desirable, of course, but they're definitely both opportunistic enough to not let that occasion pass them by.

    On the other hand, you are now making it sound as if there needs to be a superpower, and all practical considerations aside ─ cfr. the eagerness of the Russians and the Chinese to assume that role in the event of a vacancy ─ that is not a vantage I myself subscribe to. I believe in an egalitarian world, not in a world dominated by a single nation and its arsenal of nuclear weapons.



    It will slowly but steadily lose its power and be replaced by something else. Hell, it might even be the Euro, and perhaps that would not be such a bad thing.

    Not that I'm happy about how the EU operates, but the EU has taken its place on the global theater without invading any sovereign nations or threatening them with military action. All military operations carried out by EU countries since the inception of the EU itself have all been under the NATO flag, and thus in the service of Uncle Sam and his imperialistic war machine.



    Not necessarily a war. Not every country is as trigger-happy as the USA. But there might be some other kind of power struggle, yes ─ most likely an economic one. On the other hand, maybe things can be sorted out peacefully. That too is an option ─ one in which the EU could become an important catalyst, if they have the acuity of mind.



    Well, on account of the USA, the country would have to be rebuilt. But it would have to be done right this time, without any of that insular and conservative nonsense that both the Democrats and the Republicans are guilty of. And that's going to be very hard, but perhaps after the toll that the collapse will inevitably take, there might be more willingness and more sanity ─ emphasis on "might be".

    It's difficult to predict such things in advance. The only thing we can be certain of is that the collapse is inevitable. It happened to Ancient Greece, it happened to the Romans, it happened to Hitler's Third Reich, and one can already see the signs of decay in today's US American Empire. It really doesn't take a genius to spot that.

    Perhaps it won't be during our lifetime anymore, or perhaps it will be, but it's either way definitely headed down the pike, and there's no escaping from it. The storming of the Capitol was only the beginning, and it exposed ─ albeit only to the rest of the world, not to American society itself ─ the degree of brainwashing, the gullibility and the quite frankly truly barbaric nature of an alarmingly large segment of the US population.
    I don't think the world needs a superpower. It's been the way of things for a while now. I just feel like someone else will want to be after watching the US. Both China and Russia would want it for sure.

    Plus the US isn't going to go down without blaming someone on the outside and fighting. Some folks here would see war as the solution. Just like when my brother told me Iraq could be easy and wars make people rich. Just get enough of the 'base' to believe that and here we come.

    Americans have so many guns. They're most certainly going to want to use them.

    Your comments about the EU are interesting. I know you aren't in love with it.

    I can't see how we rebuild after collapse. Someone will move in on us. Right now, a great deal of Americans seem to want it to be Russia. I'm not sure what's up with that. Maybe it's a secret love of Oligarchs. It's certainly not the Russian Orthodox church.

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  25. #883
    Super Moderator United States Dreamtimer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Chris View Post
    Good discussion.

    My take:

    This isn't just about the USA, but what is generally referred to as "The International Community" or more generally, The West.

    It isn't partisan or political either, the problems are systemic. It may even be, that industrial civilisation as a whole, globally, is ripe for collapse. You will probably only find about it when you realise there is no electricity, no internet, no cell phone signal, no nothing. You won't even know what happened and how it came about for years or decades. You'll probably be too busy finding new and creative ways to survive, gathering, hunting, trapping, fishing, trying to grow your own food, that sort of thing.

    The USA seems like it is the most likely candidate for Domino Numero Uno, but we may yet be surprised at what triggers the whole process and where it comes from. I'm not at all convinced that China and Russia are in such great shape as they are often believed to be. The Russian economy is tiny and mostly based on raw material production and agriculture, whereas China has a huge debt bubble and malinvestment problem as far as the eye can see. It looks very much like Japan is the eighties, before that particular bubble burst.

    Europe may actually muddle along, because it is the most sustainable of all the areas mentioned. I'd hate to be in Singapore when Industrial society collapses, that city is just plain old going to starve once the containers full of stuff stop rolling in. Most big cities might suffer a similar, if less dramatic fate, depending on the ability of the central government (the smaller scale, the better) to get food from the countryside into the cities, in whatever way it can manage, using horses, mules, coolies and whatnot. Some places may be lucky enough to keep the lights on and keep the railway system operating. We shall see.
    We're on a thin line indeed. I appreciate your perspective on Russia and China, Chris.

    Really, it seems that all it will take is a major earth event. One big burst from the sun or a big volcano, or some such.

    Considering the slow poisoning of life by the chemicals coming from plastics and their production, collapse would likely be a blessing in disguise. I feel like collapse followed by rebuilding would be preferable to slowly dying off due to infertility, cancer and having screwed up natural processes beyond repair. (for humanity)

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  27. #884
    Super Moderator United States Dreamtimer's Avatar
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    Maybe we'll collapse in tandem with Russia, our secret lover.





    Donald Trump was a tool in a long-running Russian campaign to weaken the United States. That’s been documented in Republican-led investigative reports, and now it has been updated with new evidence, thanks to the U.S. Intelligence Community’s assessment of the 2020 election. The report, drafted by the CIA, the FBI, and several other agencies, was released in unclassified form on Tuesday, but it was presented in classified form on Jan. 7. In other words, it was compiled, written, and edited during Trump’s administration. It destroys his lies about the election, and it exposes him as a Russian asset.
    Links are to reports from Justice.gov, 'Report On The Investigation Into Russian Interference In The 2016 Presidential Election",

    Intelligence.Senate.gov, (U)REPORT OF THE REPORT 116-XX SELECT COMMITTEE ON INTELLIGENCE UNITED STATES SENATE ON RUSSIAN ACTIVE MEASURES CAMPAIGNS AND INTERFERENCE IN THE 2016 U.S. ELECTION VOLUME 5: COUNTERINTELLIGENCE THREATS AND VULNERABILITIES,

    and dni.gov, Foreign Threats to the 2020 Us Elections.

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    Senior Member BeastOfBologna's Avatar
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    Two things: We have a diversity with a potential for unity in the U.S. Something history since race became a line of demarcation hasn't had the benefits from. The next superpower will be the most aggressive country of course. I'm thinking Hungary or Belgium.

    “But those who have been under the shadow, who have gone down at last to elemental things, will have a wider charity” - Herbert George Wells -

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