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  1. #271
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    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    Thanks, Chris. I don't think you're being gloaty. Nice word, btw.

    It's sad to me because we're smart and have plenty of resources and don't have to be so foolish. The voice of the people has been quashed greatly. Our leaders don't even do their jobs. And they pour salt in the wound by crowing and strutting about how much they don't do their jobs.

    Civil war won't get us anywhere but in an economic shithole. But we can use the ballot box and actually get out there and get into the system and make it work right.

    Capitalism has done a good job getting peoples' eye off the real ball.
    Well, speculating here, but as an outsider, I see the US as hopelessly divided and getting more so with each passing month. It reminds me of pre-civil-war Spain in many ways. Who would bet against some sort of armed internal conflict if the president refuses to leave office for instance (which he said he wouldn't, more than once), or if knife-edge election results aren't accepted by one or both parties or if the president gets impeached and is forcefully removed from office, by, say the FBI or Army Intelligence? To me, it seems that the country could easily splinter along Red-Blue lines, with the East and West Coast going their separate ways. In such a situation, the likes of Vermont and Texas might very well want to secede, there is already a vocal secessionist movement in both states. It is unpredictable, but the warning signs are there.

    Ditto for the UK (England and Wales vs Scotland, Northern Ireland and London) and let's not forget China, which gives the erstwhile Soviet Union a run for its money lately in terms of its Gulags and repression of ethnic, religious and linguistic minorities.

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  3. #272
    Super Moderator United States Dreamtimer's Avatar
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    I often wonder, how do Texans believe they can operate as a separate country? Realistically. The origin and structure of the state is enmeshed in being a part of the union. Their economics are tied into it. If folks don't even believe in or support the UN, how in the world do they expect to get international recognition as a nation? What currency will they use? What trade deals will they have? Especially when folks don't believe in trade deals. It makes no real sense.

    It's not a realistic goal, imho.

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  5. #273
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    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    I often wonder, how do Texans believe they can operate as a separate country? Realistically. The origin and structure of the state is enmeshed in being a part of the union. Their economics are tied into it. If folks don't even believe in or support the UN, how in the world do they expect to get international recognition as a nation? What currency will they use? What trade deals will they have? Especially when folks don't believe in trade deals. It makes no real sense.

    It's not a realistic goal, imho.
    The Breakup of the Soviet Union or India did not make much sense either, yet it still happened. Texas was an independent country, before it joined the Union, voluntarily. Under the terms of its accession, it is the only state that can legally secede, after a referendum.

    I've been to the Texas Embassy in London btw, which is just off Trafalgar Square. Excellent Tex-Mex food

    I imagine it will see diplomatic action sooner than anyone expects…

    Texas is oil-rich and is a net contributor to the federal budget, it could easily stand on its own as an independent nation. The same is not really the case with Scotland and Northern Ireland btw, but I still think their secession from the UK is very near. Sometimes nationalism and emotional arguments override economic concerns.

    Also, Tibet and Xinjiang (East Turkestan or Uighurstan to use the region's historic names) would be mad to secede from China, in economic terms, but they're still going to, once an opportunity presents itself. I expect that they will expel the Chinese plantation population in the process.

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  7. #274
    Super Moderator United States Dreamtimer's Avatar
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    Interesting.

    I still don't think it would work. Breaking up a family doesn't make it stronger. But then again, at the rate we're going, states around the world might see that as an avenue to weakening the influence of the USA.

    Folks always crow about how we don't have war on our soil. I imagine that would change after secession. And I don't mean civil war.

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  9. #275
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    Quote Originally posted by Chris View Post
    To me, it seems that the country could easily splinter along Red-Blue lines, with the East and West Coast going their separate ways.
    It would be more of an urban vs. rural kind of a thing. Urban areas lean heavily Blue, while rural areas lean heavily Red. Both IMO are pretty much unreasonable in their entrenched positions based on the Mockingbird Media they are all entranced by. Rural is entranced by FOX News and talk radio, urban entranced by MSNBC, CNN, and most of the msm.
    The unexamined life is not worth living.

    Socrates

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  11. #276
    Super Moderator United States Dreamtimer's Avatar
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    Here's a synopsis of Andrew Yang's economic perspective re jobs:


    Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6BfMLCwM74


    I like Andrew and I'm glad he's getting noticed during his run for President. That will help his ideas to get out there more.

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  13. #277
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    I am reposting a comment I made on the below Guardian article, because I think it is relevant to this thread:

    I think no deal Brexit will now happen in three weeks' time and everyone is powerless to stop it. A delay would be completely pointless, given the current acrimony between the EU and the Conservative AND Unionist party. This may sound harsh, but as a European who used to live in both the UK and Ireland, I think the UK needs a bit of a time out from the European project in a no-deal Brexit. The consequences will be dire, but the British people as a whole need a reality check. They are in complete denial about their real place in the world and still think that Britain is some sort of global superpower that can boss other countries, not least Ireland, around. They are quickly going to discover that they can't even get their coveted US trade deal if they throw Ireland under the bus. In fact, it will become obvious that Westminster is quickly losing its grip over the regions, not least Scotland, which will most certainly take advantage of the current chaos to leave the UK. A border poll in Ireland might do the same to Belfast and who knows what will happen to Wales or Gibraltar as we watch the UK collapse before our eyes. This is all very sad and reminds me of the collapse of the Soviet Union and Yugoslavia. English nationalism is clearly to blame and the parallels with Serb and Russian nationalism and their self-defeating destructiveness are unmistakable.

    More on the current Brexit situation:

    https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...ment-134102961

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  15. #278
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    An excellent addendum to the previous post about how the UK is likely to break apart. This one is an infographic from NBC news and gives an excellent background to the various, conflicting forces that point towards a collapse of the UK in the next 5-10 years.

    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/h...ngdom-n1062526

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  17. #279
    Senior Member giovonni's Avatar
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    Thinking

    Weighing in ...

    Having a very close relationship with a Welsh/Liverpudlian - I am a bit biased and sympathetic to this Brexit dilemma ... While noting it is a very complex (emotional) issue - And with no doubts the war between the Torres and Labour party's have torn the nation further apart (just as the Dem's and Trump repub's has in the US) ...

    I agree (somewhat) that it is inevitable that the UK (government) will have to loosen its grip-up in regards to Gibraltar, Scotland and most importantly Northern Ireland to some extent ... Probably a new sovereign (imagined) drawn up economic zone (s) for these self governed entities to trade freely both within the EU and UK collectively ... But that (make no mistake) must come fast/quickly after whenever Brexit officially occurs ?

    Though (I'm sensing) all this will not be pretty in the making ... Obviously the UK government does (and should) not want to return back to the past 'warring days' of its IRA/Northern Ireland conflict.

    Yes, Greater Britain is fair less important (in the role of being a military power) - Still strategically/financially it is the capital of the Western world - And as long as the United States remains intact as a world power - the Island Kingdom (most likely) historically will still prevail.
    Last edited by giovonni, 11th October 2019 at 18:12. Reason: editing

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  19. #280
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    The way I see it, is that both the US and the UK have lost enormous power and influence over the last few years and I don't see them clawing that back anytime soon. Both countries are a laughing stock and nobody really respects or takes them seriously any more, despite their nuclear weapons. I think that there is a whiff of Boris Yeltsin's Russia about them. Brexit and Trump were not the cause, but the symptom of a serious decline in both countries, which has been ongoing for decades but didn't really become apparent until quite recently. I don't know how either saga is going to end, though I would not be surprised if both countries were to collapse and break up in the foreseeable future. There are already clear signs of that happening.

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  21. #281
    Senior Member giovonni's Avatar
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    LOL

    Wow ... I'm not biting ...

    Have a good weekend !

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  23. #282
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    Quote Originally posted by giovonni View Post
    Wow ... I'm not biting ...

    Have a good weekend !
    Well, it isn't called the Collapse thread for nothing... It is a gathering place for Kollapsniks...


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  25. #283
    Super Moderator United States Dreamtimer's Avatar
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    Kollapsniks. Lol.

    Your link didn't work for me but I think I found it.

    Trump breaks things. He breaks them and makes money off it.

    Is Boris Johnson like that?

    When our economy goes into another recession, and it seems to be heading that way now, we'll have some troubles. We'll have to wait and see how bad they get.

    I feel like we could redeem ourselves from Trump's buffoonery, but I don't know about dissing, and then turning our backs on allies. That will be hard to overcome.

    We were able to form a coalition after nine eleven. Would we be able to again? Trump would bully folks into the alliance. But would he succeed?
    Last edited by Dreamtimer, 12th October 2019 at 12:07.

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  27. #284
    Senior Member NotAPretender's Avatar
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    Well, there was this Russian psychic a number of years ago predicted that the breakup of the U.S. was only a matter of time.

    Seems peepos have a penchant for emulating Samson in the temple...Bringing it all down around the shoulders, burying oneself in the rubble, and dying in satisfaction that one brought it down.

    My ex-wife was like that, I once told a therapist that the only way to get compromise out of her would be to kill her and I wasn't willing to go that extreme but somebody else might. She found a guy that my daughter characterizes as a limp wrist. And to top of the disgusting nature of it, he's a diehard Red, she's a covert Red and is so blind she thinks she's a liberal. Gawd! The guy is a mechanical engineer and doesn't believe in global warning...tells Al Gore jokes....what a maroon... (I hope he doesn't read this)

    Here's the thing, I don't think the Blues have the juevos to do that, the Reds are stiff enough to do it. In the endgame the Reds win. Yayy for everybody, we're all dead but the Reds died happy!
    "We are one thought away from changing the world!"

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  29. #285
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    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    Kollapsniks. Lol.
    Actually, that's Dmitry Orlov's term, so I can't take credit for. I still prefer it to collapsitarian though...

    Your link didn't work for me but I think I found it.
    Hmm, ok, maybe it depends on the country you're in, the original link still works for me.

    Trump breaks things. He breaks them and makes money off it.

    Is Boris Johnson like that?
    No, I think the resemblance between the two is entirely superficial. Trump is a buffoon and frankly, an idiot. Boris on the other hand is fairly competent and fiercely smart. He can quote the classics in the original Greek and Latin. Trump can't even quote anything in English...

    I'm actually surprised at how well the Brexit negotiations are currently going. I may have to eat my words on the whole collapse of the UK thing, but when four separate former Prime Ministers are warning about it, you know it is a real danger.

    The truth is, everybody expected Boris to be unserious and ineffectual, but he has outmanoeuvred the EU at every turn and is actually hammering out a half-decent divorce agreement with the EU as we speak. It may all end up with the least amount of pain for all parties involved, but I still think that Scotland and Nothern Ireland will be tempted to leave the UK and rejoin the EU in some form. English nationalism has been let out of the bottle and it ain't going back.

    When our economy goes into another recession, and it seems to be heading that way now, we'll have some troubles. We'll have to wait and see how bad they get.

    I feel like we could redeem ourselves from Trump's buffoonery, but I don't know about dissing, and then turning our backs on allies. That will be hard to overcome.

    We were able to form a coalition after nine eleven. Would we be able to again? Trump would bully folks into the alliance. But would he succeed?
    Everybody's expecting a recession, which is a contrarian signal and tells me that it might not happen.

    However, the US's reputation lies in tatters, I don't think it will be easily repaired. Britain might regain some of its composure if there is an orderly Brexit (which is still a big if, but more likely than two days ago, when it seemed next to impossible), but outside the EU it will have much less influence than it had inside it. Militarily, the UK barely registers any more, except for its nuclear weapons. It had hundreds of warships a few decades ago, now it has less than ten, in working order. I'm afraid it is no match for even Iran, let alone China or Russia.

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