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  1. #151
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    An interesting report on the uncertain fate awaiting a million Britons currently living in EU countries. Notice the typical British sleight of hand, where Britons living abroad are referred to as expatriates, but Europeans living in the UK are called immigrants. That in itself explains a lot about British delusions vis-a-vis Brexit. Don't worry though, I'm sure if things don't go swimmingly for British expatriates in Europe, all it takes to persuade those nasty sausage-eating Krauts and frog-eating Pierres to treat British citizens with more respect is redirecting a gunboat from the port of Bombay in British India. As we all know, Britannia rules the waves and Britons never shall be slaves...

    https://www.channel4.com/news/post-b...ing-in-germany

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  3. #152
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    Quote Originally posted by NotAPretender View Post
    Hi DT,

    Time for a little crudity, not to mention impolitical correctness. Sigmund Freud speculated that 'blacks' are subject to mistreatment because they are the color of poopoo. So we have two ends of the 'coolness' spectrum. I'm going with socio-cultural indoctrination.
    I've been thinking a lot about racism lately. It is sort of inevitable, as I live in a society that is notoriously racist even to this day. I've been bought up with a casually racist world view that has its roots in late 19th century imperialism. Although it is rarely stated explicitly, everybody shares certain assumptions about race that sets up a hierarchy of sorts between different racial and ethnic groups. Africans are at the bottom, seen as barely human and Germans and Scandinavians at the top, seen as demi-gods basically. The Nazi assumption that blonde hair and blue eyes signify divine origin lives on subconsciously. I was surprised to see the very same unconscious bias in an Israeli friend, who I thought should know better. He had a habit of referring to gentile Europeans as Aryans, which I found really disturbing. There are of course no Aryans and Jews aren't a race, though the Ashkenazim by themselves are a separate ethnic group (related to the Hungarians, btw) that do share some specific ethnic characteristics not shared by other groups. However, that has very little to do with Jewishness in and of itself.

    I also had a good look at Racism in Asia, particularly India and Southeast Asia. There is a phenomenon there (and in a more subtle form, in Europe too) of what I call skin-colour discrimination. Within the same ethnic group (say Thais, Filipinos or Japanese) people with darker skin are looked down upon. They are considered ugly and less intelligent. I've dated very hot dark-skinned girls in these countries (that is my personal preference, I just find dark or brown skin more attractive than pale white), who were basically shunned by the local guys for their skin tone, even though otherwise they were very pretty and intelligent. It is a rather bizarre phenomenon and I'm told it pre-dates European colonialism. I believe it has to do with the persistent belief that rich, high-status people stay out of the sun and have therefore lighter skin-tones. In 19th century Europe, and in the colonies, great care was taken by Europeans to stay out of the sun for this reason. Asian ladies still walk around with umbrellas when they go outside. If you ever wondered why, that is the reason.

    But, I do think there is something deeper going on here. I really think the Nazis were on to something when they associated blonde hair, blue eyes, pale skin and a tall stature with the gods. The oldest pantheon that we're aware of, the Sumerian Gods, most probably would fit that description. Many believe that they made us "in their image", therefore these characteristic would be a crude genetic marker of closeness to the gods. In the Enuma Elish, the gods refer to humans of Earth as the "black-headed ones", a subtle, but important indication that they did not have black or brown hair like indigenous Earth Humans. The Nazis were aware of this and went to great lengths to find references to these ancient gods and to find entrances to their underground bases, mostly in places like Tibet and Antarctica. There are rumours (who knows if they are true) that some Nazis met with such underground "gods" and shaped their whole Aryan supremacy policy with this in mind. I think that this is at least a plausible factor in the madness that then ensued with the whole racial purity drive.

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  5. #153
    Senior Member NotAPretender's Avatar
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    It is universal. The Nazis spent time in the Iranian mountains (I think) looking for the 'Gods'. In the 'Urantia' book one of the most striking things to encounter is the implicit sense that in the Galactic hierarchy (coincidentally, I suppose) the lighter the racial skin the more elevated the spiritual attainment. White, tan, brown, red, green, blue, and black.

    A few years ago (I forget his name now) there was a very bright black guy on PA and apparently he was here for awhile that commented when he was exposed to the Galactic Hierarchy how he was gobsmacked that racism extended throughout the universe.

    Social stresses bring out the worst in most humans and the problem with that is it takes 'mindfullness' to overcome the urges of the R-Complex wiring of the brain and most aren't willing to rise to the occasion.

    It's all crazy...If one 'really' believes in consciousness as an attribute of creation then it is not so unreasonable to give true credibility to the 'Archons'. And they do fit with most mythical/historical accounts of 'weirdness'.

    So my questions is, "Is it the Archons?"
    "We are one thought away from changing the world!"

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  7. #154
    Administrator Aragorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Chris View Post
    I've been thinking a lot about racism lately. It is sort of inevitable, as I live in a society that is notoriously racist even to this day. I've been bought up with a casually racist world view that has its roots in late 19th century imperialism. [...]
    I think that both the Roman Catholic Church and the media have been largely responsible in propagating the racist view that black people would somehow be inferior to white people. At least, that is my experience. Cultural isolation will also have contributed to that. One always tends to develop some wariness of what is culturally unfamiliar.

    I grew up in a small and somewhat backwater village — which, ironically, had been an actual city with a twelve-tower castle during the middle ages — with a very strong Catholic indoctrination. Several of the villagers had become missionaries, and the way Africans were depicted to us at school — and this was further emphasized by the photos in the newspapers and the footage on television — was that they were savages or semi-savages who ran around naked, or barely clad at best. And some of them were allegedly cannibals, too! And of course, our missionaries and nuns had to go over there and "bring civilization to them".

    The whole thing seemed confusing to me when I discovered that a niece of my dad's had been married to an African, and they had a little girl, who is black. I've personally only ever seen her in photographs. I've never actually met her — my parents did, however — because her branch of the family lived a reasonable distance away from us. Her mother died of cancer at a young age and her father abandoned her, so she was raised by her mother's sister, who already had two or three children of her own.

    Either way, none of the kids my age were accustomed to actually seeing black people in the flesh, because it was a village of white people only. And then the immigrants started coming in, from Morocco and Turkey. And they had kids of roughly our own age. Turks look quite Caucasian, even though they generally do have Eurasian racial traits. Moroccans look somewhat South European, and they generally have a tan. So as a kid — and especially given my autism, through which I notice details to a much greater extent than so-called neurotypical people — I did notice the racial differences, but they didn't bother me. The language barrier was more significant, I'd say.

    The cultural differences did however surface, for instance when talking of religion. We had been indoctrinated with the concepts of God the Father, the Holy Ghost, Jesus, Mary, and whatever else there is, and they had in turn been indoctrinated with the concept of Allah and Mohamed. And they had strange names compared to us — especially the Turkish kids. But those kids lived only one street away from me, and they would walk the way home with me after school every day. As such, they became very good friends, and that friendship and respect has remained ever since.

    Now, in high school, one of the guys in my class — one of the few guys who has never bullied me and with whom I never had any problems whatsoever — had been adopted when he was still a very little boy, and he was originally from Rwanda, I believe. He was as intelligent and "western" as everyone else, and there was certainly no racism toward him, neither from the (Catholic) school itself, nor from his classmates — which was somewhat surprising, given that those classmates were the very same guys who were bullying the hell out of me for all three years of my high school period.

    Anyway, the guy went on to become a historian, and his brother — who is not his biological brother but who was also adopted as a young African boy — went on to become a local politician, and even made it to first schepen in the city where he lives. As such, he was also the official substitute for the mayor whenever the mayor was unavailable, and at one point, he had to marry a couple, but when he then extended his hand to congratulate the newly-wed couple, the groom refused to shake hands with him because of his skin color. It caused quite a stir in the media. The inverse is also true, by the way — Orthodox Jews also refuse to shake hands with non-Jews, and likewise for certain Muslim women.

    Xenophobia — which is actually a euphemism, because a phobia denotes fear, whereas in most cases it is a matter of intolerance and/or hatred, rather than fear — is so stupid. We're all the same species. And what if ET lands tomorrow and looks very different from us? Well, that topic has also already been addressed in movies, such as in "Alien Nation" (where the (humanoid) aliens are referred to as "melonheads") and in "District 9" (where the (insectoid) aliens are referred to as "prawns" — in South Africa, the word "prawn" denotes a land-dwelling beetle, not a crustacean).
    = DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR =

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  9. #155
    Senior Member NotAPretender's Avatar
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    crazy....
    "We are one thought away from changing the world!"

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  11. #156
    Senior Member palooka's revenge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Aragorn View Post
    I think that both the Roman Catholic Church and the media have been largely responsible in propagating the racist view that black people would somehow be inferior to white people. At least, that is my experience. Cultural isolation will also have contributed to that. One always tends to develop some wariness of what is culturally unfamiliar.
    Yup, its the ole slippery slope dynamic. There is privilege and then there’s privilege on steroids! Money buys privilege. Having exclusive claim to god buys privilege on steroids. Rome teaches that if your catholic, you’re saved. If not, your toast. Literally. When put in that position it follows that you are set up to look down upon anyone and everyone who is not ‘ in the fold’. 70 years ago I excommunicated myself from the catholic church over this very claim. But there was no way I was going to tell anyone. What’s a 5 year old to do?

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  13. #157
    Super Moderator United States Dreamtimer's Avatar
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    70 years ago I excommunicated myself from the catholic church over this very claim. But there was no way I was going to tell anyone. What’s a 5 year old to do?
    That's awesome. I would have done the same. I was raised in the Episcopal church so there was not the threat of damnation hung over my head all the time. Or excommunication.

    When I was little, my parents explained to me that I could believe what I want and think for myself. I was soooo relieved, I was afraid they'd be mad at me because that's what I'd been doing all along.

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  15. #158
    Senior Member NotAPretender's Avatar
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    Catholicism runs too deeply in my blood to 'excommunicate' myself. But, trust me, my family HAS been threatened by excommunication at the parish level (no such thing really but the process starts somewhere). It's not the church that reached me, it was Jesus...Jesus represents the best of humanity and that's all there is to it.
    "We are one thought away from changing the world!"

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  17. #159
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    Quote Originally posted by NotAPretender View Post
    Catholicism runs too deeply in my blood to 'excommunicate' myself. But, trust me, my family HAS been threatened by excommunication at the parish level (no such thing really but the process starts somewhere). It's not the church that reached me, it was Jesus...Jesus represents the best of humanity and that's all there is to it.
    Well, I'm not a Christian (name notwithstanding) so I guess it's not my place to comment on this, but there's actually very little evidence, apart from the Bible itself, that Jesus was a real person who actually existed in the time period commonly specified. The Romans kept very meticulous records and he was supposedly fairly famous at the time, yet there is not one mention of him in any of the extensive historical records. I think it is very likely that he was simply made up by the Jewish-Roman historian Josephus for reasons of political expediency. There is a similar problem with Mohammed, btw, but his existence is less contentious. Jesus may be an excellent role model for some (though I would certainly argue with that), but only in the same way Harry Potter or Aragorn are. He is a character in a book and should be treated as such. Just my opinion, no offence meant to anyone or their religious beliefs.

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  19. #160
    Senior Member NotAPretender's Avatar
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    hmm, ok...I don't know why Josephus would create a character he despised but I still believe that Jesus was very real as was his family and brothers...Plenty of documentation for that.
    "We are one thought away from changing the world!"

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  21. #161
    Senior Member NotAPretender's Avatar
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    Christ myth theory
    Main article: Christ myth theory

    The Christ myth theory is "the view that the person known as Jesus of Nazareth had no historical existence."[108]

    In modern scholarship, the Christ myth theory is a fringe theory and finds virtually no support from scholars.[109][110][111][112][52]

    - The One Source -

    Don't pee on my Jesus...
    "We are one thought away from changing the world!"

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  23. #162
    Administrator Aragorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Chris View Post
    Well, I'm not a Christian (name notwithstanding) so I guess it's not my place to comment on this, but there's actually very little evidence, apart from the Bible itself, that Jesus was a real person who actually existed in the time period commonly specified. The Romans kept very meticulous records and he was supposedly fairly famous at the time, yet there is not one mention of him in any of the extensive historical records. I think it is very likely that he was simply made up by the Jewish-Roman historian Josephus for reasons of political expediency.
    Actually, historical research — nebulous as it may be — suggests that there were at least two people eligible for having been the Biblical Yeshua, and possibly even four. One of them was allegedly crucified, but another one is said to have traveled to India.

    Quote Originally posted by Chris View Post
    There is a similar problem with Mohammed, btw, but his existence is less contentious.
    Now that I did not know. Interesting.

    Quote Originally posted by Chris View Post
    Jesus may be an excellent role model for some (though I would certainly argue with that), but only in the same way Harry Potter or Aragorn are. He is a character in a book and should be treated as such. Just my opinion, no offence meant to anyone or their religious beliefs.
    Well, I am flattered that you think of me as a role model, but at the same time, I'm offended that you regard me as merely a character in a book. Who do you think has been running this forum for the last three-and-a-half years?


    All jest aside, J.R.R. Tolkien was a devout Christian, and there is a whole lot of Christian mythology woven into the universe described in Tolkien's books. If you look at the Christian myth of Creation and the fall of Lucifer, then you can see this reflected in Tolkien's own narrative of Creation, and more precisely, through the rebellion of Melkor, who was the most powerful of the Ainur — the highest order of angels in Tolkien's universe, who would take on physical form as the Valar — but then after his descent into the physical realm became known as Morgoth Bauglir.

    Sauron was initially a Maia — a "lesser" order of angels, who would take on physical form as (among other things) wizards — but he was corrupted by Melkor/Morgoth. Nevertheless, Sauron was a Maia of a more powerful order than Gandalf, Radagast and Saruman, the latter of whom was initially righteous but was then corrupted by Sauron, just as Saruman himself would then capture, torture and corrupt Elves and turn them into Orcs.

    So, to recapture, Melkor became Morgoth and corrupted Sauron, who then corrupted Saruman, who then in turn corrupted Elves and converted them into Orcs. In Biblical analogy, Melkor would have been Lucifer, who then became the Dragon (Morgoth) who was cast down on Earth by Michael and who then gave his power to the Beast (Sauron), which in turn then created the Antichrist (Saruman) and the False Prophets (Grima Wormtongue).

    Furthermore, Tolkien's Aragorn II is said to, after his crowning as the rightful King of Gondor and Arnor, have been the representation of the Biblical promise of Jesus as the King of Heaven and Earth. The name given to Aragorn II by his mother Gilraen when he was a young boy — to protect his true identity as the rightful heir to the throne of Isildur — was Estel, which is Elvish for "Hope". Aragorn II also physically resembled Aragorn I, and this could thus be interpreted as if Tolkien meant for Aragorn II to represent the Biblically prophesized second coming of Jesus — as in the Anglo-Saxon expression "from now until kingdom come."

    Hmm... And all of that on the morning of Christmas day.


    = DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR =

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  25. #163
    Senior Member Cearna's Avatar
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    I read a tiny book by the sleeping prophet, which I felt very at ease with, as being the truth.

    It was about the time of ancient Egypt, virtually also when also Atlantis was close to its end time , when they were mariners and frequently visited Egypt.

    The story was about a priest (no mention of his own spiritual leanings, but his name was Ra ta). This story fits into my own memories as an atlantean, myself, which was that we were not born, we arrived as a spirit, and put a form around us, which bore no resemblance to a human form, so could have an antennae or many arms or legs. This story suggests that Ra ta and this wife were such as this. I know some of us used laser knives for cutting, and he used his for cutting off his and his wives extra appendages, until when he was completed they both, were blond haired, blue eyed two eyes, two legs two arms. Throughout the period which has to have been the Age of Aries, he seems to have decapitated all the extra limbs of the atlanteans till all of them had this white skin, blonde hair, blue eyes and are the beginnings of the Aryan race of legend which the Germans were besotted with as that of a pure race, which is what the300 female priestesses, tended to be. The males of Atlantis were more of an outer fringe sect, who tended to have their pride and ego considerably upset by this female authoritarian hierarchy, who actually set up and ruled the land of Atlantis, males and others from elsewhere, had only minimum rights and it was these who led to the eventual downfall of Atlantis due to their lack of the exceedingly occult abilities of the women, angst being the result, same as today.
    You are what you are, no more, no less. The fact is, that all is not what it seems to be, some may be great, some may be small, but to your own want to be free, I say, you never were not free. It is what your own Self, gave yourself to be in, that's what makes you what you are. Loving kindness be upon you and yours.

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  27. #164
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    Quote Originally posted by Aragorn View Post
    Actually, historical research — nebulous as it may be — suggests that there were at least two people eligible for having been the Biblical Yeshua, and possibly even four. One of them was allegedly crucified, but another one is said to have traveled to India.
    Well, yes, that is the point, those supposed candidates for Jesus lived well before the time he was supposed to live and none match the description provided by the Bible to any significant degree. Joseph Atwill wrote a book about it, called Caesar's Messiah. I attended one of his talks in London years ago and there was a fascinating discussion afterwards about the topic. I think he's definitely on to something. Here's a recent TV programme exploring the topic:


    Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmEScIUcvz0



    Now that I did not know. Interesting.
    There was a WSJ article about it years ago, but now it's behind a paywall. It is a contentious issues, and I'm not sure who is right either. You can read all about it here (with the pros and cons for each theory):

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Muhammad


    Hmm... And all of that on the morning of Christmas day.
    What better time to discuss this, honestly?

    But seriously, we just went through a Christmas celebration with my family and Christianity or Jesus did not come up once.

    It is not a Christian holiday, but a much older pagan one, that was incorporated into Roman Liturgy because of its popularity in pre-Christian Europe. Same thing with Easter.

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  29. #165
    Senior Member NotAPretender's Avatar
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    Why would it be anyway else. The past, present, or future doesn't occur in a vacuum.

    Does anyone really believe (if one believes) that Jesus was born on December 25?

    Just for the edification of those unknowing...Jesus was born in early March - 6 b.c.
    "We are one thought away from changing the world!"

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