Page 47 of 53 FirstFirst ... 3744454647484950 ... LastLast
Results 691 to 705 of 784

Thread: Collapse

  1. #691
    Super Moderator United States Dreamtimer's Avatar
    Join Date
    7th April 2015
    Location
    Patapsco Valley
    Posts
    11,794
    Thanks
    61,094
    Thanked 52,093 Times in 11,706 Posts
    I cannot possibly take such a test without commenting on it...

    "I’d always support my country, whether it was right or wrong." This is a problematic proposition, imo. Perhaps I believe my country is wrong about something and I fight that wrong thing. I still support my country. The proposition seems to imply support for wrong things.


    I'd rather see the proposition that says all people should have access to clean, free water.


    "The rich are too highly taxed." Laughing out loud now. They pay no taxes. They haven't for ages. With loopholes, shelters and good lawyers the rich pay little to no taxes. They point to percentages and brackets that they are never beholden to.

    They should pay their fair share is what they should do.


    "An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth." This is an Old Testament value and I was raised with the understanding that it is not an American, Christian value.

    And yet my brother said it after 9/11 and I hear other folks say it, seemingly not even knowing that it goes against the teachings of Christ.


    "Good parents sometimes have to spank their children." I'm not against spanking in particular. I got belted and soap in the mouth. The lesson I learned directly from that experience is that I would never do that to my child. And I didn't.

    I watched my sister-in-law spank her kids. It didn't stop them from doing what they did. Does she think it was worth it? I do not know.


    I had to pause to think about the death penalty. I've never been anti-death penalty. But I do not see it as justice nor as any kind of recompense. It's a fancy form of revenge. In light of the fact that we know people may be executed who are innocent, it's not something I can, in good conscience, support. Really bad criminals deserve to languish in prison. Minor offenders should not be there at all.

    "Making peace with the establishment is an important aspect of maturity." What does this even mean? I find the proposition ludicrous.


    Drum roll please.....



    Like I have been saying for years now, I'm pretty near the middle.



    Aianawa, what is outside the squares are us roundys!

  2. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Dreamtimer For This Useful Post:

    Aragorn (8th July 2020), Chris (8th July 2020), Elen (11th July 2020), NotAPretender (8th July 2020), Wind (8th July 2020)

  3. #692
    Administrator Aragorn's Avatar
    Join Date
    17th March 2015
    Location
    Middle-Earth
    Posts
    15,838
    Thanks
    71,864
    Thanked 66,718 Times in 15,834 Posts
    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    "An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth." This is an Old Testament value and I was raised with the understanding that it is not an American, Christian value.
    I'm afraid it is very much a US American value. The US has always retaliated with excessive force against anyone who dares violate its laws or its hegemony, from the over-the-top military force used against other nations, over the equally over-the-top display of military firepower and brutality by police forces against peaceful protesters, all the way to the use of the death penalty as a (ludicrously inefficient) deterrent against crime.

    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    I had to pause to think about the death penalty. I've never been anti-death penalty. But I do not see it as justice nor as any kind of recompense. It's a fancy form of revenge. In light of the fact that we know people may be executed who are innocent, it's not something I can, in good conscience, support. Really bad criminals deserve to languish in prison. Minor offenders should not be there at all.
    The main reason why the death penalty is abject is that it is coldblooded, premeditated murder. The convict is already unarmed and held in detention, so who still needs being protected against them in such a way that the convict's death would be the only possible recourse?

    Furthermore, as I've stated higher up, the death penalty does not work as a deterrent against crime, even though this is probably the most-touted argument in favor of the death penalty used in the USA ─ or at least, officially, because when push comes to shove, it really is all about revenge. And that then ties in again with the vindictive nature of the US empire.

    Mind you, I'm going to say something quite controversial now, namely that I am not opposed to an assassination, but only if said assassination would be the only means to prevent innocent people from being murdered, raped or otherwise damaged for life. In that regard, I see the assassination in question as a preemptive killing out of (self)defense. But it has to be absolutely certain that the assassination is equally absolutely required for the reasons stated above, and nothing else.

    To give you an example ─ albeit one that comes with its own moral dilemma, which I'll explain in the paragraph below... If you could travel back in time and assassinate Adolf Hitler before he started World War II and ordered the Holocaust, wouldn't you? I think only the Hitler apologists would answer "no" to that question.

    But then here's the moral dilemma... If you were to go back in time and kill Hitler ─ and assuming just for the sake of argument that you would not be branching off a new timeline ─ then what would the world look like today? You would have changed the entire course of history from 1940 onward until now. The geopolitical balance would be completely different. Europe could be submerged in Soviet communism right now. Or maybe the Nazis would still be in power in Germany today. Maybe Japan would have been annexed by Communist China. Or maybe it would be the other way around, and Imperial Japan would have conquered China long before there ever could have been a communist revolution there.

    The bottom line is that there's no way of knowing, but that the world at large would nevertheless have looked very differently today if someone had succeeded in assassinating Adolf Hitler before he committed the atrocities that shall forever be associated with his name. And they've certainly tried ─ even from within the Nazi party itself ─ but of course, they failed, and the allied forces weren't willing to go there, exactly because Hitler was such a strategic goof-up that it had already become certain in advance that he was going to lose the war, and that if he were to have been assassinated, then a militarily more competent Nazi could and would have taken his place ─ that was actually the reason why some Nazis wanted to get rid of Hitler themselves and attempted to kill him. And then the Nazis would have ultimately won world War II, because Nazi-Germany was very close to developing an atomic bomb.

    Nevertheless, if I were to hear of somebody's plans to commit mass murder with full impunity and I'd be convinced of the odds of this person succeeding being too great, then I would condone said individual's assassination, and then we'd have to take our chances on what the future brings. But this is of course still different from the reasons why the USA, Russia and other nation states order anyone's assassination. Nation states have people assassinated for reasons related to the power balance, or out of opportunism, or out of vindictiveness ─ basically the same reasons as why the USA invades other countries. And this is of course also light-years removed from the subject of executing an already unarmed and detained individual with premeditation.
    = DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR =

  4. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Aragorn For This Useful Post:

    Chris (8th July 2020), Dreamtimer (8th July 2020), Elen (11th July 2020), NotAPretender (8th July 2020), Wind (8th July 2020)

  5. #693
    Senior Member Hungary
    Join Date
    10th July 2018
    Posts
    1,260
    Thanks
    3,205
    Thanked 6,150 Times in 1,254 Posts
    Fundamentally, I'm opposed to the death penalty, because most of the time innocent people get executed and only rarely those that are actually guilty of serious crimes.

    However, in some case, I do believe the death penalty is justified, but this should be preserved for very rare and serious cases. A typical example would be pyschopathic serial killers. It would have to be established without any doubt that they were guilty and then everyone would be better off with a quick and humane execution, including the serial killer himself.

    Some people cannot be redeemed or rehabilitated, because they are fundamentally evil, have been from birth and their evilness (or pathological psychopathy, to use the correct term) is genetically coded, often hereditary and coded not only into their genes, but the very structure of their brain. The most humane course of action would be the death penalty in such cases, but it would require very serious professional oversight, especially in terms of psychiatric evaluation and brain scans.

  6. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Chris For This Useful Post:

    Aragorn (8th July 2020), Dreamtimer (8th July 2020), Elen (11th July 2020), NotAPretender (8th July 2020), Wind (8th July 2020)

  7. #694
    Super Moderator United States Dreamtimer's Avatar
    Join Date
    7th April 2015
    Location
    Patapsco Valley
    Posts
    11,794
    Thanks
    61,094
    Thanked 52,093 Times in 11,706 Posts
    I actually agree with you on assassination, Aragorn, if it could be assured that it is the right person and that it is for protection of people. I don't, however, have faith in our leaders to use it that way.

    I'm afraid it is very much a US American value. The US has always retaliated with excessive force against anyone who dares violate its laws or its hegemony, from the over-the-top military force used against other nations, over the equally over-the-top display of military firepower and brutality by police forces against peaceful protesters, all the way to the use of the death penalty as a (ludicrously inefficient) deterrent against crime.
    This is probably why my brother and other people have such a disconnect.

    It's not supposed to be an American value. Our parents drilled that into our heads. It's what supposedly made us different from the Soviet Union, China, Middle Eastern nations, and others.

    And of course the fact that it's an Old Testament, not a New Testament value.

  8. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Dreamtimer For This Useful Post:

    Aragorn (8th July 2020), Elen (11th July 2020), NotAPretender (8th July 2020), Wind (8th July 2020)

  9. #695
    Senior Member NotAPretender's Avatar
    Join Date
    3rd April 2017
    Posts
    7,294
    Thanks
    24,489
    Thanked 29,516 Times in 7,220 Posts
    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    I cannot possibly take such a test without commenting on it...

    "I’d always support my country, whether it was right or wrong." This is a problematic proposition, imo. Perhaps I believe my country is wrong about something and I fight that wrong thing. I still support my country. The proposition seems to imply support for wrong things.


    I'd rather see the proposition that says all people should have access to clean, free water.


    "The rich are too highly taxed." Laughing out loud now. They pay no taxes. They haven't for ages. With loopholes, shelters and good lawyers the rich pay little to no taxes. They point to percentages and brackets that they are never beholden to.

    They should pay their fair share is what they should do.


    "An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth." This is an Old Testament value and I was raised with the understanding that it is not an American, Christian value.

    And yet my brother said it after 9/11 and I hear other folks say it, seemingly not even knowing that it goes against the teachings of Christ.


    "Good parents sometimes have to spank their children." I'm not against spanking in particular. I got belted and soap in the mouth. The lesson I learned directly from that experience is that I would never do that to my child. And I didn't.

    I watched my sister-in-law spank her kids. It didn't stop them from doing what they did. Does she think it was worth it? I do not know.


    I had to pause to think about the death penalty. I've never been anti-death penalty. But I do not see it as justice nor as any kind of recompense. It's a fancy form of revenge. In light of the fact that we know people may be executed who are innocent, it's not something I can, in good conscience, support. Really bad criminals deserve to languish in prison. Minor offenders should not be there at all.

    "Making peace with the establishment is an important aspect of maturity." What does this even mean? I find the proposition ludicrous.


    Drum roll please.....



    Like I have been saying for years now, I'm pretty near the middle.



    Aianawa, what is outside the squares are us roundys!
    Hey DT, get offa my cloud ...
    “Chance is perhaps God's pseudonym when He does not want to sign” Anatole France, Le Jardin d'Epicure

  10. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to NotAPretender For This Useful Post:

    Aragorn (8th July 2020), Dreamtimer (8th July 2020), Elen (11th July 2020), Wind (8th July 2020)

  11. #696
    Super Moderator United States Dreamtimer's Avatar
    Join Date
    7th April 2015
    Location
    Patapsco Valley
    Posts
    11,794
    Thanks
    61,094
    Thanked 52,093 Times in 11,706 Posts
    Hey! McCloud! Get offa my ewe!

    Oh wait, this isn't the humor thread...

  12. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Dreamtimer For This Useful Post:

    Aragorn (8th July 2020), Elen (11th July 2020), NotAPretender (8th July 2020), Wind (8th July 2020)

  13. #697
    Senior Member NotAPretender's Avatar
    Join Date
    3rd April 2017
    Posts
    7,294
    Thanks
    24,489
    Thanked 29,516 Times in 7,220 Posts
    Quote Originally posted by Aragorn View Post
    Mind you, I'm going to say something quite controversial now, namely that I am not opposed to an assassination, but only if said assassination would be the only means to prevent innocent people from being murdered, raped or otherwise damaged for life. In that regard, I see the assassination in question as a preemptive killing out of (self)defense. But it has to be absolutely certain that the assassination is equally absolutely required for the reasons stated above, and nothing else..
    I agree exactly about the death penalty and assassination. Sometimes assassination is the only clean way to stop unmitigated crimes against humanity.

    Quote Originally posted by Chris View Post
    Fundamentally, I'm opposed to the death penalty, because most of the time innocent people get executed and only rarely those that are actually guilty of serious crimes.

    However, in some case, I do believe the death penalty is justified, but this should be preserved for very rare and serious cases. A typical example would be pyschopathic serial killers. It would have to be established without any doubt that they were guilty and then everyone would be better off with a quick and humane execution, including the serial killer himself.

    Some people cannot be redeemed or rehabilitated, because they are fundamentally evil, have been from birth and their evilness (or pathological psychopathy, to use the correct term) is genetically coded, often hereditary and coded not only into their genes, but the very structure of their brain. The most humane course of action would be the death penalty in such cases, but it would require very serious professional oversight, especially in terms of psychiatric evaluation and brain scans.
    it used to be that serial killers had value as research subjects...i don't think there are too many mysteries left regarding their behavior, but at the same time each is unique with their signature of perpetration
    “Chance is perhaps God's pseudonym when He does not want to sign” Anatole France, Le Jardin d'Epicure

  14. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to NotAPretender For This Useful Post:

    Aragorn (8th July 2020), Dreamtimer (9th July 2020), Elen (11th July 2020), Wind (8th July 2020)

  15. #698
    Super Moderator Wind's Avatar
    Join Date
    16th January 2015
    Location
    Just here
    Posts
    2,965
    Thanks
    17,161
    Thanked 14,235 Times in 2,970 Posts
    I cannot with good conscience support the death penalty as I see it as a barbaric practice.

    I do however think like Aragorn, violence is always wrong except as a last resort - self-defence.

    I think that some people are so vile that they don't deserve to live, but it's just better to lock them up.

  16. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Wind For This Useful Post:

    Aragorn (8th July 2020), Dreamtimer (9th July 2020), Elen (11th July 2020), NotAPretender (8th July 2020)

  17. #699
    Senior Member Canada
    Join Date
    30th October 2017
    Posts
    508
    Thanks
    1,712
    Thanked 2,678 Times in 511 Posts
    Hi! Libertarian left here. Pleased to meet you!

  18. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Octopus Garden For This Useful Post:

    Aragorn (8th July 2020), Dreamtimer (9th July 2020), Elen (11th July 2020), NotAPretender (8th July 2020), Wind (8th July 2020)

  19. #700
    Senior Member Hungary
    Join Date
    10th July 2018
    Posts
    1,260
    Thanks
    3,205
    Thanked 6,150 Times in 1,254 Posts
    https://pjmedia.com/columns/victor-d...e-woke-n622310

    Antifa in Tears: The Fragility of the Woke

    BY VICTOR DAVIS HANSON JUL 09, 2020 12:10 AM EST

    A TikTok video that recently went viral on social media showed a recent Harvard graduate threatening to stab anyone who said, “all lives matter.” In her melodrama, she tried to sound intimidating with her histrionics.


    A TikTok video that recently went viral on social media showed a recent Harvard graduate threatening to stab anyone who said, “all lives matter.” In her melodrama, she tried to sound intimidating with her histrionics.


    She won a huge audience as she intended. But her video also came to the attention of the company that was going to give her an internship later this summer, Deloitte, which decided it didn’t want to add an intern who threatened to kill strangers who said something she didn’t like.

    This wouldn’t have been much of a story. But then the narcissistic Harvard alum posted a very different video — one that showed her weeping in a near-fetal position.

    She fought back tears while complaining how unfair the world had been to her. Her initial TikTok post had earned cruel pushback from the social media jungle she had courted. Deloitte, she sobbed, was mean and hurtful. And she wanted the world to share her pain.

    The Harvard grad instantly became an unwitting poster girl for the current protest movement and the violence that has accompanied it. What turns off millions of Americans about the statue toppling, the looting, the threats, and the screaming in the faces of police is the schizophrenic behavior of so many of the would-be revolutionaries.

    On one hand, those toppling statues or canceling their own careers on the internet pose as vicious Maoists — the hard-core shock troops of the revolution. Their brand is vile profanity, taunts to police, firebombs, and spray paint.

    In homage to Italy’s blackshirts of the past, they wear black hoodies, don makeshift helmets, and strap on ad hoc protective padding — part lacrosse attire, part cinematic Road Warrior costume.

    The televised stereotype of the antifa activist is a physically unimpressive but violent-talking revolutionary. He seems to strut in laid-back, blue-city Minneapolis but wisely avoids the suburbs and small towns of the nation’s red states. He spits at police when standing beside fellow agitators but would never do that when alone confronting an autoworker or welder.

    When police march against the antifa crowd and their appendages in order to clear the streets, they often scream like preteens, objecting to mean officers who dare to cross them.

    When arrested, the trash talkers are usually terrified of being jailed or of having an arrest on their records.

    Federal authorities are currently searching thousands of videos to ferret out looters, arsonists, and assailants. Perpetrators who are caught are shocked that the evidence that they once posted online in triumphant braggadocio is now being used to charge them with felonies.

    What is going on?

    Black Lives Matter, antifa, and their large numbers of imitators and loosely-organized wannabes are mostly made up of middle-class youth, often either students or graduates. They deem themselves the brains of the rioting, the most woke of the demonstrators, the most sophisticated of the iconoclasts. In truth, they are also the most paranoid about being charged or being hurt.

    Black Lives Matter, antifa, and their large numbers of imitators and loosely-organized wannabes are mostly made up of middle-class youth, often either students or graduates. They deem themselves the brains of the rioting, the most woke of the demonstrators, the most sophisticated of the iconoclasts. In truth, they are also the most paranoid about being charged or being hurt.


    What explains the passive-aggressive nature of these protesters and rioters?

    Many no doubt are indebted, with large, unpaid student loans. Few seem in a hurry to get up at 6 a.m. each day to go to work to service loans that would take years to pay in full.

    While some of those arrested are professionals, many are not. Few seem to be earning the sort of income that would allow them to marry, have children, pay off student loan debt, buy a home, and purchase a new car.

    Historically, the tips of the spears of cultural revolutions are accustomed to comfort. But they grow angry when they realize that they will never become securely comfortable.

    In today’s high-priced American cities, especially on the globalized coasts, it’s increasingly difficult for recent college graduates to find a job that will allow for upward mobility.

    The protestors are especially cognizant that their 20s are nothing like what they believe to have been the salad days of their parents and grandparents — who did not incur much debt, bought affordable homes, had families, and were able to save money.

    Earlier generations went to college mainly to become educated and develop marketable skills. They weren’t very interested in ethnic and gender “studies” courses, ranting professors, and woke administrators. For the students of the 1960s who were, protesting was a side dish to a good investment in an affordable college degree that would pay off later.

    But when such pathways are blocked, beware.

    The woke but godless, the arrogant but ignorant, the violent but physically unimpressive, the degreed but poorly educated, the broke but acquisitive, the ambitious but stalled — these are history’s ingredients of riot and revolution.

    Victor Davis Hanson is a classicist and historian at the Hoover Institution, Stanford University, and the author, most recently, of “The Father of Us All: War and History, Ancient and Modern” You can reach him by e-mailing author@victorhanson.com.
    Last edited by Chris, 9th July 2020 at 12:27.

  20. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Chris For This Useful Post:

    Aragorn (9th July 2020), Elen (11th July 2020), NotAPretender (9th July 2020)

  21. #701
    Senior Member NotAPretender's Avatar
    Join Date
    3rd April 2017
    Posts
    7,294
    Thanks
    24,489
    Thanked 29,516 Times in 7,220 Posts
    That's a tough decision, but probably a correct one. She learned a lesson and in the long run probably would not have been satisfied with the culture of the company. A win/win for society.

    The Hoover Institute does a lot of hoovering
    “Chance is perhaps God's pseudonym when He does not want to sign” Anatole France, Le Jardin d'Epicure

  22. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to NotAPretender For This Useful Post:

    Aragorn (9th July 2020), Chris (9th July 2020), Elen (11th July 2020)

  23. #702
    Super Moderator United States Dreamtimer's Avatar
    Join Date
    7th April 2015
    Location
    Patapsco Valley
    Posts
    11,794
    Thanks
    61,094
    Thanked 52,093 Times in 11,706 Posts
    Antifa has been given a whole lotta power and recognition by folks on the right. It was a nothing burger until Trump started chanting the name. Almost nobody in America heard of or cared about it until Trump started calling its name.

    It's still not really an organization. It has no central entity. It has no headquarters. It has no leader.

    It's an awesome boogyman for the right which, in America, loves the fear mongering. It gets them votes.

  24. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Dreamtimer For This Useful Post:

    Aragorn (9th July 2020), Chris (9th July 2020), Elen (11th July 2020), NotAPretender (9th July 2020), Wind (9th July 2020)

  25. #703
    Senior Member Hungary
    Join Date
    10th July 2018
    Posts
    1,260
    Thanks
    3,205
    Thanked 6,150 Times in 1,254 Posts
    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    Antifa has been given a whole lotta power and recognition by folks on the right. It was a nothing burger until Trump started chanting the name. Almost nobody in America heard of or cared about it until Trump started calling its name.

    It's still not really an organization. It has no central entity. It has no headquarters. It has no leader.

    It's an awesome boogyman for the right which, in America, loves the fear mongering. It gets them votes.
    Just because you can't see the leadership or the organisational structure, doesn't mean there isn't one.

  26. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Chris For This Useful Post:

    Aragorn (9th July 2020), Dreamtimer (9th July 2020), Elen (11th July 2020), NotAPretender (9th July 2020)

  27. #704
    Super Moderator Wind's Avatar
    Join Date
    16th January 2015
    Location
    Just here
    Posts
    2,965
    Thanks
    17,161
    Thanked 14,235 Times in 2,970 Posts
    Nah. Antifa isn't organized at all, it's just mostly an ideology. A very scattered group like the Anonymous.

  28. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Wind For This Useful Post:

    Aragorn (9th July 2020), Chris (11th July 2020), Dreamtimer (9th July 2020), Elen (11th July 2020), NotAPretender (9th July 2020)

  29. #705
    Super Moderator Norway Elen's Avatar
    Join Date
    2nd July 2015
    Location
    Scotland
    Posts
    4,949
    Thanks
    70,583
    Thanked 22,785 Times in 4,950 Posts
    Quote Originally posted by Octopus Garden View Post
    Hi! Libertarian left here. Pleased to meet you!
    I am "in the middle of the road" and call it "Common Sense". And I reserve the right to stay (t)here, imperfections don't bother me from (t)here.
    Whatever is true. Whatever is noble. Whatever is right. Whatever is lovely. Whatever is admirable. Anything of excellence and worthy of praise. Dwell on these things. Jesus Christ (I agree)

  30. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Elen For This Useful Post:

    Aragorn (11th July 2020), Chris (11th July 2020), Dreamtimer (11th July 2020), Wind (11th July 2020)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •