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  1. #526
    Super Moderator Wind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Octopus Garden View Post
    Right down to what we consider pure ego, the type it takes to strive and survive, is affected by being easily accepted into the greater working world. Ego is erroneously mistaken for a function of what an individual thinks and feels about themselves. When really, it's what the person thinks of themselves, plus what he or she thinks others think of them.

    As this is the case, ego is a general consensus construct that becomes internalized. This is why appearances are so important, why personal dignity is everything to us--and why black people have an aversion to being near us, as well. Until it is made abundantly clear that they are more than welcome to participate in white society, and no longer unfairly persecuted by the legal system, they will shy away. Who wants an existential as well as an ego crisis to have to deal with?
    "Rationalism is the weapon by which the ego segregates the world: Me and them. Inside, outside. My tribe, their tribe. The good people, the bad people. This is the neurotic response that somehow comes out of the trauma of our evolution on the planet."


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  3. #527
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    Well, I am not going to mince my words here, thankfully, as a Hungarian citizen, I can still afford to be politically incorrect. I do not share the optimism of my dear TOT friends, as much as I respect your opinions.

    I see plenty of evidence that the Left (at least in the US) is driven by an anti-white agenda. They are doing everything they can to remove white people from power and to replace the population with voters and supporters that are more amenable to support them, mostly black and brown people from the third world.

    Normally, I wouldn't care about such trivial things such as skin colour and ethnicity, but the Left makes it an issue, because they care about little else and frame everything in that context. To them every issue is about race, skin colour, gender, sexual orientation, etc..., when those things in truth are trivial and irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. But, when they single out a particular race or ethnicity for constant, relentless attack and are demonstrably working towards their destruction, my sense of justice kicks in and I have to protect those that are being targeted. In this case, it happens to be my own ethnicity that is being targeted, but I would stand up to anyone that is being attacked in this way.

    The Left in general, but Antifa and BLM thugs in particular see white people the way Nazis saw Jews.

    They think that they are an oppressive force, that hide and conspire in the shadows to steal wealth, prosperity and material success from brown and black people and to quote a popular meme "They are rich because we are poor." That is all bullshit and demonstrably so. The last time an ethnic group was targeted for being richer and more successful than all the others, we got the Rwandan Genocide. Before that we had anti-Chinese pogroms. Before that we had the Holocaust. Before that, we had the Armenian Genocide. These massacres all have the same roots, it is envy from groups that are less successful, thinking that those that are wealthier and more successful than they are, got that way by stealing from them. That is exactly how Nazis talk about Jews even today, or Black South Africans about whites, black Americans about Whites, etc...

    It isn't really their fault, because they have been brainwashed by the Left to blame white people for all their troubles and failures, yet they are the architects of their own disfunction. I am not going to stand by and stay silent whilst this anti-white racist agenda gets driven by the collective Left, increasingly globally.

    #KillAllWhitePeople

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  5. #528
    Administrator Aragorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Chris View Post
    Well, I am not going to mince my words here, thankfully, as a Hungarian citizen, I can still afford to be politically incorrect. I do not share the optimism of my dear TOT friends, as much as I respect your opinions.

    I see plenty of evidence that the Left (at least in the US) is driven by an anti-white agenda. They are doing everything they can to remove white people from power and to replace the population with voters and supporters that are more amenable to support them, mostly black and brown people from the third world.
    No, I'm afraid you're misinterpreting things. What the USA considers "the left" ─ i.e. the US Democrats ─ is almost just as racist (toward non-whites) as the alt-right. There are many racists among the US Democrats, and Hillary Clinton was prominently named as one of them.

    Now, Antifa, that's a whole other thing. Antifa is a grassroots movement that got hijacked by fanatics, and I've already posted evidence higher up this thread that the alt-right has infiltrated Antifa, as well as imitated Antifa in order to commit crimes and then shove the blame off on Antifa.

    As for Black Lives Matter, this is not just about the murder of George Floyd. Black Lives Matter has been around for a long time already, and has also for a long time already been vying against the ever-enduring lack of racial equality within the USA. Don't forget that people of color in the USA were not allowed to vote until the 1960s, and that Martin Luther King had to fight very hard to help the US overcome its innate and legalized racism. And then they assassinated him.

    Also, the USA is a geographically very big country, with many different regional cultures, of which it is well known that the southern states are hotbeds of extreme right-wing movements and racism. And this situation has been allowed to persist, in spite of any more egalitarian management approaches elsewhere in the country. So there really still are black people (and Asians, and Native Americans) who are suffering racism every day, and it is also a well known fact that certain regional police departments in the USA maintain very corrupted and racist policies.

    If you allow a situation like that to fester for so long, then inevitably, all that anger is going to build up and explode some day. The murder of George Floyd at the hands of a white police officer ─ and George Floyd was certainly not the only one who has befallen that fate in recent years ─ was simply the trigger. The water was too hot already, the kettle was already boiling, and now the lid has blown off.

    And that's all there is to it.

    Quote Originally posted by Chris View Post
    The Left in general, but Antifa and BLM thugs in particular see white people the way Nazis saw Jews.
    Or the way the Jews saw the Nazis? I don't think there would have been any Jew at all after World War II who had anything favorable to say about the Nazis. Hell, go to Israel and ask them for their opinion on the Nazis today ─ notwithstanding the fact that Israel as a state is pretty much doing to the Palestinians what the Nazis did to the Jews.

    Quote Originally posted by Chris View Post
    That is exactly how Nazis talk about Jews even today, or Black South Africans about whites, black Americans about Whites, etc...
    Well, I can attest to the racism in South Africa. Many white South Africans are still racists ─ and I know a couple of them quite personally ─ but at the same time, there is also a reverse Apartheid thing going on there now, with the black acting out all of their decades of pent-up anger over the way the whites had been treating them.

    And one of the reasons why is that those blacks aren't any smarter, because even though Nelson Mandela did his best to undo the damage, he was already an old man, and his successors were by far not as smart as he was. It was especially Jacob Zuma who did a lot of damage, by simply using his position as president to further enrich himself at the expense of his people, against the backdrop of the fact that the ANC, the biggest political party in South Africa, isn't actually a political party but a motley crew of anti-Apartheid activists. They have no political vision, no understanding of economics, and no idea on how to rebuild South Africa and turn it into a truly civilized country, where everyone can thrive, regardless of their race, creed or whatever.

    At present time, South Africa is more or less run by corrupt police departments and crime syndicates ─ many of whom are actually Nigerians. Add to this the many years of hatred against white people because of the white oppression of the blacks, and what you get is a Wild West situation. Crime rules in South Africa, as does AIDS. The education system is seriously lacking, there is poverty, there are people living in slums that you wouldn't even dare call a house, and officials turn a blind eye to injustice committed by blacks against white people. The country's in chaos. And this in turn fans the flames among the white South Africans as well, who are now thinking back with nostalgia of how things were much more "orderly" when Apartheid still existed.

    Well, the USA is not as extreme as South Africa yet, but what we're seeing in the USA now is just a taste of what has been going on in South Africa for many years now, thanks to ─ primarily ─ Jacob Zuma.
    = DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR =

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  7. #529
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    I wish I shared your optimism Aragorn, but I don't. I'm afraid all these so-called multicultural and multiracial societies are doomed. Only a question of time until they start resembling South Africa, Brazil or Venezuela, all well on the way to failed state-dom. They could work, if more sensible policies were implemented and Identity politics was banned. It would require an authoritarian state along the lines of Singapore. But, that's never going to happen in a Western-style democracy. The US seems to be the first domino to fall, with the UK and France following close behind.

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  9. #530
    Senior Member Morocco modwiz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Chris View Post
    I wish I shared your optimism Aragorn, but I don't. I'm afraid all these so-called multicultural and multiracial societies are doomed. Only a question of time until they start resembling South Africa, Brazil or Venezuela, all well on the way to failed state-dom. They could work, if more sensible policies were implemented and Identity politics was banned. It would require an authoritarian state along the lines of Singapore. But, that's never going to happen in a Western-style democracy. The US seems to be the first domino to fall, with the UK and France following close behind.
    I do find value in the views of those who live outside of America, as a point of interest. As any outsider can see, even those who live within the boundaries of the USA have differing views.

    The interesting thing is how much the world wide media is involved.

    I have been emotionally involved with many a media event in my years. But, after 67 of them, I have come to realize how much energy and attention of mine was distracted from my local reality.

    I will always monitor the world situation while reacting to the local one.
    "To learn who rules over you simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize" -- Voltaire

    "Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people."-- Eleanor Roosevelt

    "Misery loves company. Wisdom has to look for it." -- Anonymous

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  11. #531
    Administrator Aragorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Chris View Post
    I wish I shared your optimism Aragorn, but I don't. I'm afraid all these so-called multicultural and multiracial societies are doomed. Only a question of time until they start resembling South Africa, Brazil or Venezuela, all well on the way to failed state-dom. They could work, if more sensible policies were implemented and Identity politics was banned. It would require an authoritarian state along the lines of Singapore. But, that's never going to happen in a Western-style democracy. The US seems to be the first domino to fall, with the UK and France following close behind.
    The sentence I've highlighted above in your quoted text says it all, Chris. I am a firm believer in education ─ not indoctrination with propaganda, but a proper upbringing and teaching ─ and I believe that guiding every individual onto becoming the best they can be while giving them all the chances they need, would help overcome these discrepancies that later in life turn into identity politics.

    Am I a dreamer? Yes, quite possibly so. I do realize that our over-industrialized society ─ with an equally over-industrialized education system ─ is going to be very hard to replace by something less "cargo cult", if I'm using that term correctly. Maybe my own line of thinking in this regard would be some sort of cargo cult in and of itself. I don't mean to be naive in this. I am fully aware of the practical and organizational difficulties.

    In fact, I think that the lockdowns enforced by the SARS-CoV-2 pandemic could have offered humanity a sufficiently compelling incentive for us all to change the way society works, but at the same time, I also had to observe how the opportunity was being missed because of the unimaginative and reactionary adherence to our old ways. Instead of going back to the drawing board, all our respective leaders (and other social bodies of power) could think about was how to bridge the time and return to our old ways as soon as possible.

    So, no, I do not think that my idealistic belief would in any shape or form be a sign of cargo cult, and that it is indeed the western-capitalist society model that is the cargo cult, given that all logic dictates that neo-liberal capitalism itself must and will inevitably lead to a dead end due to the finite nature of Earth's resources, and yet the system ─ based upon an engineered inequality in opportunities, wealth and wellbeing ─ is being defended tooth and nail.

    So, am I optimistic, as you seem to think I would be? No, actually not. On the contrary, I believe that things have been festering for way too long and that there's no other way out of our current situation anymore than through a very painful cataclysmic event. Something far more serious even than a pandemic ─ a complete reset, whereby there won't be enough survivors left to resume the industrialized operation of society as we've known it for so long, and whereby they will as such be forced by the circumstances to come up with an entirely different system.

    And then maybe, just maybe, they'll do things right from the start this time around. But by the same token, they won't. After all, there have already been ample great civilizations that have all perished again because of their own short-sightedness, corruption and decadence. Maybe it's just the nature of the beast.

    = DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR =

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  13. #532
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    Quote Originally posted by Aragorn View Post
    The sentence I've highlighted above in your quoted text says it all, Chris. I am a firm believer in education ─ not indoctrination with propaganda, but a proper upbringing and teaching ─ and I believe that guiding every individual onto becoming the best they can be while giving them all the chances they need, would help overcome these discrepancies that later in life turn into identity politics.

    Am I a dreamer? Yes, quite possibly so. I do realize that our over-industrialized society ─ with an equally over-industrialized education system ─ is going to be very hard to replace by something less "cargo cult", if I'm using that term correctly. Maybe my own line of thinking in this regard would be some sort of cargo cult in and of itself. I don't mean to be naive in this. I am fully aware of the practical and organizational difficulties.

    In fact, I think that the lockdowns enforced by the SARS-CoV-2 pandemic could have offered humanity a sufficiently compelling incentive for us all to change the way society works, but at the same time, I also had to observe how the opportunity was being missed because of the unimaginative and reactionary adherence to our old ways. Instead of going back to the drawing board, all our respective leaders (and other social bodies of power) could think about was how to bridge the time and return to our old ways as soon as possible.

    So, no, I do not think that my idealistic belief would in any shape or form be a sign of cargo cult, and that it is indeed the western-capitalist society model that is the cargo cult, given that all logic dictates that neo-liberal capitalism itself must and will inevitably lead to a dead end due to the finite nature of Earth's resources, and yet the system ─ based upon an engineered inequality in opportunities, wealth and wellbeing ─ is being defended tooth and nail.

    So, am I optimistic, as you seem to think I would be? No, actually not. On the contrary, I believe that things have been festering for way too long and that there's no other way out of our current situation anymore than through a very painful cataclysmic event. Something far more serious even than a pandemic ─ a complete reset, whereby there won't be enough survivors left to resume the industrialized operation of society as we've known it for so long, and whereby they will as such be forced by the circumstances to come up with an entirely different system.

    And then maybe, just maybe, they'll do things right from the start this time around. But by the same token, they won't. After all, there have already been ample great civilizations that have all perished again because of their own short-sightedness, corruption and decadence. Maybe it's just the nature of the beast.

    Well then, I was wrong and unfortunately, we are in full agreement regarding where this is all headed and the fate of the world

    I would add that the collapse of global industrial civilisation is unlikely to play out the same way in every corner of the world. Some places will be fine. Like wherever our esteemed forum Wizard is bugging out right now, or quite possibly, my little corner of the world. As a matter of fact, we've (I mean Hungarians) survived far worse, within living memory, than the current ongoing collapse.

    Last week we had to leave the office for the day because they found a WW2 Soviet bomb in our backyard and the demolition experts needed to be called in. We aren't even in the city but well out in the suburbs and this is a relatively small city, with around 100.000 inhabitants, or less. Yet, the shit was bombed out of us in 1944-45 as the Nazis were retreating and made this city by the Austrian border the last capital of fascist Hungary.

    I think our civilisation will not collapse in its entirety, but perhaps we will see a replay of the collapse of the Roman Empire. The West was overrun by barbarians, sorry, I meant it got Merkelled and disappeared in a few short decades, whereas the East went on to thrive for another thousand years. Not sure how this will play out exactly, all bets are off at this point.

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  15. #533
    Senior Member NotAPretender's Avatar
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    Big topic and I don't have the stomach to carry on...but are you all saying that Africa is for Africans, the Americas are for the Native Americans, Europe is for the Europeans? Australia is for the Aboriginal? But since I am at the 96 percentile of Neanderthal gene carriers that REALLY means the whole world belongs to me?

    Humans have some serious backtracking to do. The world is as it is, humans are as they are. What can we change? We can accept the reality and move forward in such a way that is in accord to our better spirits. Aspire to our true human nature, a nature carrying the ability to transcend the animal bits. Why don't we just do it?

    Quote Originally posted by Wind View Post
    "Rationalism is the weapon by which the ego segregates the world: Me and them. Inside, outside. My tribe, their tribe. The good people, the bad people. This is the neurotic response that somehow comes out of the trauma of our evolution on the planet."

    McKenna is a brilliant guy...
    “Chance is perhaps God's pseudonym when He does not want to sign” Anatole France, Le Jardin d'Epicure

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    Quote Originally posted by NotAPretender View Post
    Big topic and I don't have the stomach to carry on...but are you all saying that Africa is for Africans, the Americas are for the Native Americans, Europe is for the Europeans? Australia is for the Aboriginal? But since I am at the 96 percentile of Neanderthal gene carriers that REALLY means the whole world belongs to me?
    That is most definitely not what I was saying.

    Quote Originally posted by NotAPretender View Post
    Humans have some serious backtracking to do. The world is as it is, humans are as they are. What can we change? We can accept the reality and move forward in such a way that is in accord to our better spirits. Aspire to our true human nature, a nature carrying the ability to transcend the animal bits. Why don't we just do it?
    That's a good question.
    = DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR =

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    Senior Member NotAPretender's Avatar
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    I know but your points about South Africa are harsh and likely very real. I've experienced this at my own level. I grew up in a white environment but when I moved to New Mexico I learned a lot about human nature and culture. Some of the environments I was in were dominated by Hispanics and there was a tendency to pick on the outsider, the white guy. It sickened and disheartened me. We had learned nothing in the hundreds of years of acculturation. But step out of the environment and the White man still ruled. We had a chance to act as ambassadors of good will and good will is absolutely paramount and we failed to act. What could be more discouraging?

    PEOPLE are merciless and cruel which is why humanity desperately needs to embrace the message of Jesus!

    Truth is, everyone was disinterested in the inner self of 'others'...cruelty begets cruelty...the animal speaking loud and clear...I was chided for being a 'potato'...Brown on the outside, white on the inside. I don't know perhaps that was the truth.
    “Chance is perhaps God's pseudonym when He does not want to sign” Anatole France, Le Jardin d'Epicure

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    Trouble is people are tribal creatures and people from third world backgrounds even more so than others.

    The world Kindness comes from Kin, it is the special treatment and consideration you show to those that are related to you by blood. That is why multiracial/ethnic/cultural societies are always doomed to failure in the end, though they can be really powerful for a while and oppress many peoples. Just ask the Ottoman Turks, Romans, Habsburgs, Soviets, Yugoslavs and now the Americans. There no longer is a common American Nation, like there was during WW2 and this lack of ethnic and national solidarity is what is leading to its downfall. It is every tribe for themselves, a sad but inevitable end of every empire in the End.

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    Quote Originally posted by NotAPretender View Post
    I know but your points about South Africa are harsh and likely very real.
    Please don't get me wrong: I am in no way, shape or form a proponent of a return of Apartheid, but this is what many South Africans do long for, now that the formerly oppressed black population is allowed to take revenge upon the white population, and that white people now have to fight hard to even find a job in South Africa.

    When president Frederik Willem De Klerk ended Apartheid and Nelson Mandela was elected as De Klerk's successor, the country was filled with hope. But Mandela was already an old man, and his party, the ANC, didn't have any experience in running a country. Like I said, they were just a politicized anti-Apartheid movement, and they had no vision on how to rebuild the country.

    Mandela's successor Thabo Mbeki tried, but he was looking at the same incompetence within his own party as Mandela was, as well as nation-wide corruption and an invasion of foreign criminals, taking advantage of the chaos in South Africa. Then Mbeki was in turn succeeded by Jacob Zuma, a criminal, rapist and polygamist, and a good friend of Robert Mugabe, the despotic dictator of Zimbabwe. And all Zuma did was enrich himself at the expense of the nation, while the country was left in disarray. Mbeki tried several times to indict Zuma and have him ousted, but failed each time because of Zuma's power and the corruption in the legal system.

    Meanwhile, South Africa has a new president again, because Zuma had served his two terms and was no longer eligible for re-election, but the problems in South Africa persist, and it's going to take a lot more than the ANC to fix it all. And meanwhile, the white-supremacists are also still around, and there regularly is violence ─ including drive-by shootings ─ between the white-supremacists and ANC members. Many South Africans own and carry a firearm, even if only because of the criminals roaming about.
    = DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR =

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    Quote Originally posted by Chris View Post
    Trouble is people are tribal creatures and people from third world backgrounds even more so than others.

    The world Kindness comes from Kin, it is the special treatment and consideration you show to those that are related to you by blood. That is why multiracial/ethnic/cultural societies are always doomed to failure in the end, though they can be really powerful for a while and oppress many peoples. Just ask the Ottoman Turks, Romans, Habsburgs, Soviets, Yugoslavs and now the Americans. There no longer is a common American Nation, like there was during WW2 and this lack of ethnic and national solidarity is what is leading to its downfall. It is every tribe for themselves, a sad but inevitable end of every empire in the End.
    True, it is a literal subconscious calculation...Parent = 1, sibling = 2, child = 2, and so forth and so on. The evil gene? This governs the life and death process and is a primordial imperative, a very sound function 50,000 years ago. As a species are we still there?
    “Chance is perhaps God's pseudonym when He does not want to sign” Anatole France, Le Jardin d'Epicure

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    I had a Muslim neighbor that moved to the U.S. because of the violence and discrimination in South Africa. When he told me that, I inwardly was shaking my head and laughing.
    “Chance is perhaps God's pseudonym when He does not want to sign” Anatole France, Le Jardin d'Epicure

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    Quote Originally posted by Aragorn View Post
    Please don't get me wrong: I am in no way, shape or form a proponent of a return of Apartheid, but this is what many South Africans do long for, now that the formerly oppressed black population is allowed to take revenge upon the white population, and that white people now have to fight hard to even find a job in South Africa.

    When president Frederik Willem De Klerk ended Apartheid and Nelson Mandela was elected as De Klerk's successor, the country was filled with hope. But Mandela was already an old man, and his party, the ANC, didn't have any experience in running a country. Like I said, they were just a politicized anti-Apartheid movement, and they had no vision on how to rebuild the country.

    Mandela's successor Thabo Mbeki tried, but he was looking at the same incompetence within his own party as Mandela was, as well as nation-wide corruption and an invasion of foreign criminals, taking advantage of the chaos in South Africa. Then Mbeki was in turn succeeded by Jacob Zuma, a criminal, rapist and polygamist, and a good friend of Robert Mugabe, the despotic dictator of Zimbabwe. And all Zuma did was enrich himself at the expense of the nation, while the country was left in disarray. Mbeki tried several times to indict Zuma and have him ousted, but failed each time because of Zuma's power and the corruption in the legal system.

    Meanwhile, South Africa has a new president again, because Zuma had served his two terms and was no longer eligible for re-election, but the problems in South Africa persist, and it's going to take a lot more than the ANC to fix it all. And meanwhile, the white-supremacists are also still around, and there regularly is violence ─ including drive-by shootings ─ between the white-supremacists and ANC members. Many South Africans own and carry a firearm, even if only because of the criminals roaming about.
    The sad truth is, that with a couple of exceptions (such as Namibia or Zambia), most of the de-colonised African nations have failed. What does that tell you about the ability of African people in general to govern themselves?

    Of course whitey gets the blame for this too, but the reality is that Africa was equally chaotic and lawless before colonisation, it is just reverting to its old state.

  30. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Chris For This Useful Post:

    Aragorn (9th June 2020), NotAPretender (9th June 2020), Octopus Garden (9th June 2020), Wind (9th June 2020)

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