Collapse

**NotAPretender** · 2nd June 2020, 15:10

ok, Chris...I really don't want to debate these points with you...it's not worth it to me to cause you anger and perhaps even hurt feelings. But people don 'labels' all the time to cover their true intentions. On your wavelength, I would say that the difference between extreme leftists and extreme rightists is essentially nothing. But one can be an authoritarian and be on the 'sane' measure of the spectrum, but certainly not the left.

Extremists should have there own measure. Call it the f*cked up in the head spectrum reserved for Alph-Draconians and the 'Dick' Cheney

**Chris** · 2nd June 2020, 17:30

I'm not angry, just passionate about trying to educate people about the crimes of Communism, which many people on the Left conveniently forget.

It's not your fault that you rarely hear about it, the entire episode and the 100million + dead have conveniently been consigned to the memory hole. Almost every week, there's another Holocaust movie, documentary or TV episode that comes out, but when was the last time you heard about the Holodomor, Gulags or Mao's death camps, which btw, still exist today, unlike Nazi concentration camps, which closed almost a century ago?

Or, staying closer to home, my grandfather was at Katyn, one of the greatest massacres in WW2, which was instigated by the communists against the Polish army, after they overran Eastern Poland in an alliance with Hitler. How many people even know about it? There was exactly one movie that was made about it, and it is in Polish. I'm pretty sure nobody in the English-speaking world saw it or knows about it.

**NotAPretender** · 2nd June 2020, 17:39

I'm aware, I always felt that Stalin and Hitler deserved each other...it went beyond poetic justice to cosmic justice...

I'm aware of what Mao did after the revolution...firing squad action non-stop...that's most assuredly on the insane spectrum.

**Wind** · 2nd June 2020, 17:44

At least here in Finland we are acutely aware of the horrors of Soviet Union and I know about Katyn through the movie. Horrible stuff. Yet here we are a very socialist (democratic) country, which is indeed a great thing and it's not the same thing as communism at all, like some Americans would like to believe. Then again, I'm not sure if we have ever had true communism on planet Earth, just these systems which have become dictatorial. Ideologies often tend to become problematic.

**Dreamtimer** · 2nd June 2020, 18:53

I feel the way you say, Wind. We have not seen true communism, which is only an ideal. The systems which have tried to use that name have just been systems which support those in power and use/abuse those outside of it. It's obvious that if so-called communists joined with Hitler then they were really no such thing as communist, and only another form of absolutism.

NAP, I find that the use of the word authoritative v. authoritarian is more useful. I was authoritative with my child, but never authoritarian. The latter is absolutist.

**Chris** · 2nd June 2020, 19:29

Originally posted by Wind

At least here in Finland we are acutely aware of the horrors of Soviet Union and I know about Katyn through the movie. Horrible stuff. Yet here we are a very socialist (democratic) country, which is indeed a great thing and it's not the same thing as communism at all, like some Americans would like to believe. Then again, I'm not sure if we have ever had true communism on planet Earth, just these systems which have become dictatorial. Ideologies often tend to become problematic.

Yes, that is a good point. Like I often say, I'm not opposed to either Left or Right, both are needed in a healthy society, it is when one becomes dominant and moves to the extremes that serious issues arise. Yet, when somebody says only the other side is capable of that and my side would never do that, I have to remind them of numerous historical counterexamples.

**NotAPretender** · 2nd June 2020, 19:59

Here is a picture of a guy that was arrested for attacking a police car and bumping a cop: I looked to see if I could determine 'where he was coming from'. I couldn't find much but what I did see was a picture of him posing with a confederate flag in the background...but it wasn't center image, and something like that could happen anyplace in Texas.

**Chris** · 3rd June 2020, 06:54

So,

I have been thinking a bit more about the current situation in the US and increasingly I am thinking that this is the gods' way of punishing the US empire for its past sins. It is pure Karma, coming back to haunt the US.

The legacy of racism, slavery, colonial conquest, constant war in faraway places, this is now no longer a distant concern, but the lived experience of ever more US Americans.

The militarisation of police, the paramilitary tactics used against protesters, the prevalence of guns and violence, the racial animosity, the slavery 2.0 in all but name prison-industrial complex, the record inequality, these chickens are all coming home to roost now.

I don't know how this will all end, maybe the US will come out of it stronger and changed for the better, but there is a fair chance this won't end well, for anyone involved.

**modwiz** · 3rd June 2020, 08:15

Originally posted by Chris

So,

I have been thinking a bit more about the current situation in the US and increasingly I am thinking that this is the gods' way of punishing the US empire for its past sins. It is pure Karma, coming back to haunt the US.

The legacy of racism, slavery, colonial conquest, constant war in faraway places, this is now no longer a distant concern, but the lived experience of ever more US Americans.

The militarisation of police, the paramilitary tactics used against protesters, the prevalence of guns and violence, the racial animosity, the slavery 2.0 in all but name prison-industrial complex, the record inequality, these chickens are all coming home to roost now.

I don't know how this will all end, maybe the US will come out of it stronger and changed for the better, but there is a fair chance this won't end well, for anyone involved.

There are times when being in the world, but not of it, begins to show its Wisdom and these are such times.

I have no TV, all of my 'news' comes from the internet. I get the 'reports' and go bafefoot into my backyard (I'm always barefoot at home) and check my real day. Two different worlds sharing a planet/country.

The locale of my biology within Creation determines my stress level, or lack thereof.

I do not feel impotent in my setting either but, in support of this thread's concept of collapse, let me say an excellent job is being done in this thread.

**Wind** · 3rd June 2020, 08:56

Originally posted by Chris

So,

I have been thinking a bit more about the current situation in the US and increasingly I am thinking that this is the gods' way of punishing the US empire for its past sins. It is pure Karma, coming back to haunt the US.

I thought about this too yesterday. Like every individual, every nation has it's own karma too. Unfortunately US has a lot of undealt baggage which is coming to the surface now. Healing only comes through purging.

**Chris** · 3rd June 2020, 09:02

Originally posted by modwiz

There are times when being in the world, but not of it, begins to show its Wisdom and these are such times.

I have no TV, all of my 'news' comes from the internet. I get the 'reports' and go bafefoot into my backyard (I'm always barefoot at home) and check my real day. Two different worlds sharing a planet/country.

The locale of my biology within Creation determines my stress level, or lack thereof.

I do not feel impotent in my setting either but, in support of this thread's concept of collapse, let me say an excellent job is being done in this thread.

Thanks Modwiz,

Appreciate your kind words.

I have been interested in collapse ever since the 2008 Financial crisis, that's when I came across authors like Dmitry Orlov, Jim Kunstler, John Michael Greer, Michael C Ruppert (sadly long gone), et al.

Your lifestyle choice is probably going to look very smart in the near future, there really seems to be a lot of trouble brewing in the big cities. I also left London for similar reasons, anticipating an event exactly like what is happening now, though I imagined it might come about for different reasons.

I think Hungary will be fine overall, but there seems to be much turmoil coming to large parts of the world and most aren't prepared for it.

**NotAPretender** · 3rd June 2020, 11:29

What do we need the right for?

What's needed for balance is an overabundance of decent human beings

**NotAPretender** · 3rd June 2020, 11:52

Those kids out on the streets know what is up...I'd wager that the majority of them agree with the concept that the two party system is outmoded and unjust. Which is in total resonance with what many here espouse...the left is just as bad as the right or that they are the same, hypocritical, corrupt, and exploitative. If so, why do we need either for balance? A balance, of corruption, deceit, hate, greed, hierarchical privilege? If it could be said that one is as 'good' as the other, then there might be motivation for preserving that system.

Not that it matters because they all represent the same truth, but I wonder how many righties are out on those streets supporting those that don't want to be killed by the values upheld by the in-place 'two-party' system? Thinking in such a fashion is what has for thousands of years kept mother Gaia wondering just where she went wrong and it has also left an opening for those that would be King to don a false mantle and proceed with mass execution.

**Chris** · 3rd June 2020, 11:58

That's like saying what do we need men for. Which many on the Left actually say and I mean that quite literally.

You can't have left without right, just as you can't have light without darkness or man without woman. They are polar opposites that complement each other and must be brought into balance.

If you are interested in the Esoteric background behind it, it goes like this:

Right: Solar, Male, Patriarchal, Traditional Religion, Monotheism, Monogamy, Straight and Square, Cro-Magnon, Individualistic

Left: Lunar, Female, Matriarchal, Left-Hand Path (such as Witchcraft, Magick or Tantra), Polytheism, Polygamy or Hypergamy, Queer, Neanderthal, Collectivist

If you look at the Left-Right dichotomy in our world, I think you will start to see the faultlines and why each side is so wedded to their own world-view. I just wish you would see the other side's POV, even if you don't agree with it.

**NotAPretender** · 3rd June 2020, 12:09

Many on the right say the same thing and actually mean it. The right acts on their 'feelings', witness Floyd. The leftist females say that and then get married to men. Is their a difference? Left and right are not synonymous with ancient archetypes.

I do see it, but I won't acknowledge it until I see a balance...not in you Chris, it's the input from the peanut gallery that really incenses me. Because what it really represents is a tacit approval of all the disgusting things that the 'male' represents and I mean that in the most balanced way possible...I am a male, after all.