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  1. #1006
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    Quote Originally posted by BeastOfBologna View Post
    I agree with your thoughts with some reservations. I've never met a tough guy that didn't have his ass kicked immediately by an athlete ... true story. Tough guy athletes are a bit of an anomaly, they usually aren't because they don't need to adapt that persona to feel manly. A lot of tough guys are just marshmallow sissies. But then I've met 'other' tough guys that it is best to keep one's distance from. I think Rittenhouse would be a classic example of some nondescript tough guy that intends to clean up any one horse town where he happens to be Sheriff. As El Cid would say, "I don't think so, Tim."

    In the 1980's I listened to an American reporter interview some Afghani fighters literally from a cave. The fighter said, he was mean enough so that all that he needed was his hashish to motivate him. Translated to English by subtitle.
    The problem here is that one side is armed to the teeth, whereas the other side mostly isn't. Athleticism matters very little when you are up against a guy with a machine gun. All those African warriors, or Chinese Rebels, who sought to fight off the white man with magic, thinking it would make them impervious to bullets, can attest to that.

    I think in Afghanistan they're mostly high on opium, but Hashish is generally very popular in South Asia. It is a pretty mellow drug though, Meth makes you fight like an animal though and feel no pain, tiredness or remorse.

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  3. #1007
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    Perhaps this provides a more balanced overview:

    https://www.insider.com/6-myths-surr...bunked-2021-11

    Kyle Rittenhouse didn't illegally bring a gun across state lines and 5 other myths surrounding the trial debunked


    A Wisconsin jury fully acquitted Kyle Rittenhouse on Friday, finding him not guilty on five counts.
    Rittenhouse, 18, was on trial for fatally shooting two men and injuring a third during civil unrest in Kenosha in 2020.
    Insider debunked six prevalent myths surrounding the high-profile and tense trial.


    A jury fully acquitted Kyle Rittenhouse on Friday, bringing a close to the high-profile and often tense trial that reflected America's deep political polarization.

    Rittenhouse, 18, who was not charged with murder, faced charges of first-degree reckless homicide, first-degree intentional homicide, and attempted first-degree intentional homicide for fatally shooting two men and injuring a third during protests in Kenosha, Wisconsin, in August 2020, following the police shooting of Jacob Blake. Rittenhouse was also charged with reckless endangerment of two additional men.

    The teenager pleaded not guilty to all five counts and testified that he acted in self-defense, saying the men he shot were attacking him. He was acquitted on all counts.

    In the aftermath of Friday's verdict, a flurry of responses and reactions to the ruling restated longstanding myths and misinformation surrounding the trial and Rittenhouse's actions on August 25, 2020.


    Insider debunked six such myths.

    Myth: Kyle Rittenhouse illegally brought a gun across state lines
    Perhaps the most persistent myth surrounding the case is the idea that Rittenhouse, then 17, brought an AR-15 across state lines. Rittenhouse lived about 20 minutes outside of Kenosha, in Antioch, Illinois. His Illinois residence helped spur rumors that the teenager traveled to Wisconsin with his rifle illegally in tow.

    But during his trial, Rittenhouse testified in court that he drove himself from his home in Illinois to Kenosha on August 24, 2020, the day before he fatally shot two men. The gun was already being stored at a friend's house in Kenosha, according to police records and court testimony.

    Myth: Kyle Rittenhouse possessed the weapon illegally
    Rittenhouse and his friend, Dominick Black, testified that Black, who was 18 at the time, used Rittenhouse's money to purchase the weapon at a Wisconsin hardware store in May 2020. The two reportedly agreed that Black would keep the gun until Rittenhouse turned 18 in January 2021, according to court testimony.

    Black is now being prosecuted for participating in the illegal straw purchase of the weapon on behalf of Rittenhouse. But Rittenhouse's possession of the firearm at the time was technically legal.

    Earlier this week, Judge Bruce Schroeder threw out a count of possession of a dangerous weapon by a person under 18 after Rittenhouse's defense argued the rifle was not short-barreled, capitalizing on an exception to the Wisconsin statute involving the barrel length of a gun.

    Myth: Kyle Rittenhouse's mother drove him to the protests in Kenosha
    A popular rumor that spread following the August 2020 shootings was the idea that Rittenhouse's mother, Wendy Rittenhouse, drove her teenaged son to the protests.

    In a November CNN interview, Democratic Rep. Karen Bass of California propagated the falsehood, alleging that Wendy accompanied her son over state lines so he could help law enforcement amid the unrest. But as Rittenhouse testified, the teenager drove himself to Kenosha ahead of the protests.

    Rittenhouse did testify that his mother drove him to a local police station to surrender following the shootings.

    Unclear: The people Kyle Rittenhouse shot were protesters
    Gaige Grosskreutz, a then-27-year-old EMT who survived being shot by Rittenhouse, testified during the trial, telling the jury that he frequently attended demonstrations as a volunteer medic and chose not to affiliate with any particular side. He said he had gone downtown the night of August 25, 2020 — and dozens of other nights that summer — to provide medical aid to anyone in need, regardless of political affiliation.

    The motives of Joseph Rosenbaum, 36, were less clear that night. Rosenbaum was seen in a number of videos not protesting but causing destruction, setting fires, tipping over a Porta Potty, wielding a chain, and at one point even shouting the N-word. Rittenhouse's defense attorneys characterized Rosenbaum as a "rioter," and even the lead prosecutor said in his closing statement he would have prosecuted Rosenbaum for arson had he not been fatally shot.

    Rosenbaum's fiancée told The Washington Post in 2020 that he wasn't there as a rioter or a looter. Just hours before the protests, Rosenbaum had been released from a hospital following psychiatric care for a suicide attempt.

    "Why was he there? I have no answer. I ask myself that question every day," she told the outlet.

    Huber's girlfriend told the New York Post that she and Huber, 26, were protesting that night. She disputed the defense attorney's characterization of Huber as a "rioter" or "looter." Huber's great aunt, Susan Hughes, also testified at Rittenhouse's trial, saying Huber knew Jacob Blake personally and was upset by his shooting.

    Myth: Rittenhouse went downtown on August 25 to answer a 'call to arms' put out by a Kenosha militia group
    A "Kenosha Guard" militia group on Facebook did issue a "call to arms" ahead of the violence on August 25. But the tech company later confirmed that Rittenhouse had not been a follower of the flagged page.

    Rittenhouse testified that he and Black went downtown because they were invited to guard the Car Source, a Kenosha car dealership, during the unrest and were under the impression they were going to be paid.

    The Khindri brothers who own the dealership denied this under oath, but multiple other witnesses testified against them, backing Rittenhouse's version.

    Myth: Kyle Rittenhouse is a self-identified white nationalist
    The civil rights attorney Ben Crump, who is representing the Blake family, falsely described Rittenhouse on Friday as a "self-declared white nationalist." But Rittenhouse has never publicly identified as a member of any extremist group.

    After he pleaded not guilty to the initial charges in January 2021, prosecutors said Rittenhouse went to a bar in Mount Pleasant, Wisconsin, where he posed for photos with members said to be of the Proud Boys while flashing a "white power" hand signal.

    His legal team said Rittenhouse did not know who the men were or what group they were affiliated with and was unfamiliar with the hand symbol's meaning.

    The judge noted that the prosecution did not find any evidence of his affiliation with a white supremacist group in phone records or social media history, and as Michelle Mark previously reported, ruled the trip to the bar was not relevant to the 2020 shooting.

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  5. #1008
    Senior Member BeastOfBologna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Chris View Post
    The problem here is that one side is armed to the teeth, whereas the other side mostly isn't. Athleticism matters very little when you are up against a guy with a machine gun. All those African warriors, or Chinese Rebels, who sought to fight off the white man with magic, thinking it would make them impervious to bullets, can attest to that.

    I think in Afghanistan they're mostly high on opium, but Hashish is generally very popular in South Asia. It is a pretty mellow drug though, Meth makes you fight like an animal though and feel no pain, tiredness or remorse.
    On the ground reality, Everyone is armed to the teeth in America.
    “But those who have been under the shadow, who have gone down at last to elemental things, will have a wider charity” - Herbert George Wells -

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  7. #1009
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    Quote Originally posted by Chris View Post
    Perhaps this provides a more balanced overview:

    https://www.insider.com/6-myths-surr...bunked-2021-11

    Kyle Rittenhouse didn't illegally bring a gun across state lines and 5 other myths surrounding the trial debunked


    A Wisconsin jury fully acquitted Kyle Rittenhouse on Friday, finding him not guilty on five counts.
    Rittenhouse, 18, was on trial for fatally shooting two men and injuring a third during civil unrest in Kenosha in 2020.
    Insider debunked six prevalent myths surrounding the high-profile and tense trial.


    A jury fully acquitted Kyle Rittenhouse on Friday, bringing a close to the high-profile and often tense trial that reflected America's deep political polarization.

    Rittenhouse, 18, who was not charged with murder, faced charges of first-degree reckless homicide, first-degree intentional homicide, and attempted first-degree intentional homicide for fatally shooting two men and injuring a third during protests in Kenosha, Wisconsin, in August 2020, following the police shooting of Jacob Blake. Rittenhouse was also charged with reckless endangerment of two additional men.

    The teenager pleaded not guilty to all five counts and testified that he acted in self-defense, saying the men he shot were attacking him. He was acquitted on all counts.

    In the aftermath of Friday's verdict, a flurry of responses and reactions to the ruling restated longstanding myths and misinformation surrounding the trial and Rittenhouse's actions on August 25, 2020.


    Insider debunked six such myths.

    Myth: Kyle Rittenhouse illegally brought a gun across state lines
    Perhaps the most persistent myth surrounding the case is the idea that Rittenhouse, then 17, brought an AR-15 across state lines. Rittenhouse lived about 20 minutes outside of Kenosha, in Antioch, Illinois. His Illinois residence helped spur rumors that the teenager traveled to Wisconsin with his rifle illegally in tow.

    But during his trial, Rittenhouse testified in court that he drove himself from his home in Illinois to Kenosha on August 24, 2020, the day before he fatally shot two men. The gun was already being stored at a friend's house in Kenosha, according to police records and court testimony.

    Myth: Kyle Rittenhouse possessed the weapon illegally
    Rittenhouse and his friend, Dominick Black, testified that Black, who was 18 at the time, used Rittenhouse's money to purchase the weapon at a Wisconsin hardware store in May 2020. The two reportedly agreed that Black would keep the gun until Rittenhouse turned 18 in January 2021, according to court testimony.

    Black is now being prosecuted for participating in the illegal straw purchase of the weapon on behalf of Rittenhouse. But Rittenhouse's possession of the firearm at the time was technically legal.

    Earlier this week, Judge Bruce Schroeder threw out a count of possession of a dangerous weapon by a person under 18 after Rittenhouse's defense argued the rifle was not short-barreled, capitalizing on an exception to the Wisconsin statute involving the barrel length of a gun.

    Myth: Kyle Rittenhouse's mother drove him to the protests in Kenosha
    A popular rumor that spread following the August 2020 shootings was the idea that Rittenhouse's mother, Wendy Rittenhouse, drove her teenaged son to the protests.

    In a November CNN interview, Democratic Rep. Karen Bass of California propagated the falsehood, alleging that Wendy accompanied her son over state lines so he could help law enforcement amid the unrest. But as Rittenhouse testified, the teenager drove himself to Kenosha ahead of the protests.

    Rittenhouse did testify that his mother drove him to a local police station to surrender following the shootings.

    Unclear: The people Kyle Rittenhouse shot were protesters
    Gaige Grosskreutz, a then-27-year-old EMT who survived being shot by Rittenhouse, testified during the trial, telling the jury that he frequently attended demonstrations as a volunteer medic and chose not to affiliate with any particular side. He said he had gone downtown the night of August 25, 2020 — and dozens of other nights that summer — to provide medical aid to anyone in need, regardless of political affiliation.

    The motives of Joseph Rosenbaum, 36, were less clear that night. Rosenbaum was seen in a number of videos not protesting but causing destruction, setting fires, tipping over a Porta Potty, wielding a chain, and at one point even shouting the N-word. Rittenhouse's defense attorneys characterized Rosenbaum as a "rioter," and even the lead prosecutor said in his closing statement he would have prosecuted Rosenbaum for arson had he not been fatally shot.

    Rosenbaum's fiancée told The Washington Post in 2020 that he wasn't there as a rioter or a looter. Just hours before the protests, Rosenbaum had been released from a hospital following psychiatric care for a suicide attempt.

    "Why was he there? I have no answer. I ask myself that question every day," she told the outlet.

    Huber's girlfriend told the New York Post that she and Huber, 26, were protesting that night. She disputed the defense attorney's characterization of Huber as a "rioter" or "looter." Huber's great aunt, Susan Hughes, also testified at Rittenhouse's trial, saying Huber knew Jacob Blake personally and was upset by his shooting.

    Myth: Rittenhouse went downtown on August 25 to answer a 'call to arms' put out by a Kenosha militia group
    A "Kenosha Guard" militia group on Facebook did issue a "call to arms" ahead of the violence on August 25. But the tech company later confirmed that Rittenhouse had not been a follower of the flagged page.

    Rittenhouse testified that he and Black went downtown because they were invited to guard the Car Source, a Kenosha car dealership, during the unrest and were under the impression they were going to be paid.

    The Khindri brothers who own the dealership denied this under oath, but multiple other witnesses testified against them, backing Rittenhouse's version.

    Myth: Kyle Rittenhouse is a self-identified white nationalist
    The civil rights attorney Ben Crump, who is representing the Blake family, falsely described Rittenhouse on Friday as a "self-declared white nationalist." But Rittenhouse has never publicly identified as a member of any extremist group.

    After he pleaded not guilty to the initial charges in January 2021, prosecutors said Rittenhouse went to a bar in Mount Pleasant, Wisconsin, where he posed for photos with members said to be of the Proud Boys while flashing a "white power" hand signal.

    His legal team said Rittenhouse did not know who the men were or what group they were affiliated with and was unfamiliar with the hand symbol's meaning.

    The judge noted that the prosecution did not find any evidence of his affiliation with a white supremacist group in phone records or social media history, and as Michelle Mark previously reported, ruled the trip to the bar was not relevant to the 2020 shooting.
    There is plenty of balance in my opinion, I have just been arguing the side I'm much closer to and frankly have fought my entire life. I'm lucky in the fact, that I survived all of my encounters with the 'policia'. One was a violent encounter. But then the few times I've been offered illicit guns, I have politely declined. (Of course, it isn't unprecedented that an unarmed individual has been shot dead.) Politely because the people offering them were not that averse to using them.
    “But those who have been under the shadow, who have gone down at last to elemental things, will have a wider charity” - Herbert George Wells -

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  9. #1010
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    "When do we get to use the guns?"

    Now?

    Now?

    What's the name of the syndrome where a sniper trains and trains and sits taking aim but never gets to shoot and ends up with a psychopathic need to kill someone?

    What's the name of the syndrome where a boy needs to go be a vigilante hero?

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    Quote Originally posted by BeastOfBologna View Post
    On the ground reality, Everyone is armed to the teeth in America.
    I'm sure that is the case in Texas and a number of other red states, but not so much in liberal strongholds. I can't imagine a lot of soy-latte sipping liberals in coastal cities knowing how to use a gun or owning one. In that respect, they are at a serious disadvantage to your typical red-state militia type. I know I'm oversimplifying, and I'm not actually on the ground, but this is the impression I get anyway.

    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    "When do we get to use the guns?"

    Now?

    Now?

    What's the name of the syndrome where a sniper trains and trains and sits taking aim but never gets to shoot and ends up with a psychopathic need to kill someone?

    What's the name of the syndrome where a boy needs to go be a vigilante hero?
    I don't know, but I would call it Hero Syndrome. A lot of it is fuelled by superhero movies, comics and videogames.

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  13. #1012
    Super Moderator Wind's Avatar
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    I doubt real heroes would have the need to go around harming and killing people. Then again, maybe some people who are already unstable will get more fuel from such things which would cause them to be even more chaotic. I would not say that they are the cause though. I like action movies and such, but I have no desire to harm anyone and I doubt I would ever have the interest to join a protest unless it was some nonviolent one for an exceptionally good cause, so far I haven't seen any. I protest in my own way.

    There's a saying: "The opportunity makes a thief." If you would happen to carry a firearm with you, it naturally is far easier to kill someone than it would be with a knife. 5 pounds of pressure, that's all it takes to pull a trigger. Mentally? Now that can be a different thing though. "Once you are able to kill mentally, the physical part will be easy. The difficult part... is learning how to turn it off." Young men can be full of testosterone, naive and might feel the "call to arms" when prompted to do so. It doesn't even necessarily have to be extremist ideology.

    Here's one article about vigilantism in America.

    At least 560 demonstrations in the past few years have included citizens bringing firearms, purportedly to assist police in protecting property. Those gatherings were six times more likely to turn violent than unarmed gatherings, according to Everytown, a gun control advocacy group.

    Last year, armed militiamen glared from the rotunda above Michigan lawmakers debating COVID-19 lockdowns. Some of those men later were arrested by the FBI on domestic terrorism charges for a plot to kidnap Democratic Gov. Gretchen Whitmer. One man pleaded guilty and was sentenced to six years in prison. Attorneys for the others are arguing that the plot to kidnap an elected official was in essence a high-level citizen’s arrest justified by the pandemic’s blow to civil liberties.

    Some Republican lawmakers have worked to portray the deadly violence of the Jan. 6 insurrection as the understandable outcome of allegations of a stolen election, despite the lack of evidence. Some 700 people have been arrested so far for their role in storming the Capitol. On Wednesday, the so-called Q Shaman, Jacob Chansley, was sentenced to three years and five months in prison – the longest sentence handed down to date.

    “What we see percolating to the top of the cultural conversation is not the language of defense – it is the language of aggression,” writes Kimberly Kessler Ferzan, co-director of the Institute of Law & Philosophy at the University of Pennsylvania, in a recent paper. Using violence in the name of the state “is where the action is.”
    Last edited by Wind, 23rd November 2021 at 23:44.

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  15. #1013
    Senior Member Fred Steeves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Wind View Post
    I doubt real heroes would have the need to go around harming and killing people. Then again, maybe some people who are already unstable will get more fuel from such things which would cause them to be even more chaotic. I would not say that they are the cause though. I like action movies and such, but I have no desire to harm anyone and I doubt I would ever have the interest to join a protest uness it was some nonviolent one for an exceptionally good cause, so far I haven't seen any.

    There's a saying: "The opportunity makes a thief." If you would happen to carry a firearm with you, it naturally is far easier to kill someone than it would be with a knife. 5 pounds of pressure, that's all it takes to pull a trigger. Mentally? Now that can be a different thing though. "Once you are able to kill mentally, the physical part will be easy. The difficult part... is learning how to turn it off." Young men can be full of testosterone, naive and might feel the "call to arms" when prompted to do so. It doesn't even necessarily have to be extremist ideology.
    Well, as a feet on the ground, gun toting individual in a deeply red state, here's a bit of my first hand perspective on this.

    My wife and I became DEEPLY concerned about things post election, but especially so, during the whole election challenge fiasco. It's not at all uncommon to hear gun fire living out in the country, almost everyone has guns, lots of people hunt, and they're very independent, it's just heritage and a way of life. There's much more gun violence in the city (where ironically things are much more liberal), but I mean hell, out here? Nah. It's almost unheard of! The only time it really happens at all is when some junky decides to use a gun to try and knock off a pharmacy for pain pills.

    So I can unequivocally bear witness that having lots of guns around, does NOT necessarily equate to a problem with gun violence during any ordinary times that I have live through (I'm 55). I think there's a lot of myth to that, to a point that is...

    During that period of time in question of the great election challenge however, there was a notable tension in the air, and there was a LOT more gunfire going off, it seemed as though people were almost practicing for something, and being a couple that had no use for Captain Chaos what so ever, that had us greatly concerned for our own personal safety. We could easily be seen as the enemy. I found myself running off scenarios to my wife like, if it comes down to it, we would hoist the American flag nice and high like right in front of the house, in case some enraged armed gang came riding through checking on people wondering are you for us, or against us?

    Of course meaning basically are you duty bound to Captain Chaos? I figured showing that overt signal of (of course false) patriotism might preclude some tensions, and they may just run along thinking that we're "okay". But if pushed on it, I was fully prepared to say whatever I had to to ensure the safety of me and my family. Things have thankfully calmed down since then, but I don't think the problem has gone away. Not yet anyway. That big mother of all bombs thankfully was never detonated, but surely there's still gasoline poured all over the place just awaiting a lit match.

    I'll tell you guys one thing though, it's doing no one any good to keep harping harping on that these right wingers are stupid and crazy. They have plenty to complain about with this government for years running now (as well the left wingers should as well!), even if they have no clue as to the intricate nuances behind all of this shite; but to keep poking and prodding them Rachel Maddow style with continual insults and bitch slaps?

    Bad, bad, BAD fucking idea.
    The unexamined life is not worth living.

    Socrates

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    Thanks for your perspective, Fred. As they say, your mileage may vary, but I personally am not against guns so I just want to make that clear. I just wonder about the local gun culture and how it might be in different states and even in different cities. I can appreciate truly that for Americans the concept of freedom is something holy and sacred, hell it's for me too.

    However, how does freedom equate with guns? Is it that it's always about self-protection? I can understand the history of your country and how it formed too with the mentality of the settlers who needed to defend themselves. I say there is absolutely nothing wrong in with defending your life, obviously, but where do you draw the line? There's also the saying that your freedom ends where mine begins and it doesn't also take a genius to figure out that violence begets violence.

    Captain Chaos wasn't the (only) problem, but it seems like he was/is a huge catalyst for a social upheaval and people had been fed up with the system for a long time and I'd say that for a good reason too. The problem isn't just the right, obviously. It clearly isn't that black and white, because the Democraps are so corrupt too and the extreme left is quite bonkers too. How would you see that things could be normalized in a society which has become so polarized and is it even possible in the current political climate? It is very possible that the Orange Messiah will run in a few years time and win, then what happens? Business as usual? I share the "optimism" of Chris Hedges.
    Last edited by Wind, 24th November 2021 at 01:38.

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    From the point of view of any developed country, American gun culture is just crazy. There is just no justification at all for having so many guns around. Sure, if you're into hunting, or live in a remote or rural area, you'll need a gun, preferably a hunting rifle and that is also the case in the likes of Scandinavia or Canada. The issue here is the number of guns, the kind of guns people often have, their ease of purchase and ubiquitous availability.

    As for the issue of Far Left vs Far Right, this is an age-old argument, but in the US, the difference seems to be that the far-right is far more organised and has a capacity for violence that the far left just doesn't possess. And no, the democrats aren't far-left, they are in fact a right-of-centre party by the standards of any democracy, more akin to the Christian Democrats in various European countries. Even Bernie Sanders is really just a moderate leftist by European standards, if he was in Europe, he'd be leading a Social Democratic, Labour or Socialist party, but of course the US doesn't have any of those, only two right-wing parties, one of them is far, far right.

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    Senior Member Fred Steeves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Wind View Post
    Thanks for your perspective, Fred. As they say, your mileage may vary, but I personally am not against guns so I just want to make that clear. I just wonder about the local gun culture and how it might be in different states and even in different cities. I can appreciate truly that for Americans the concept of freedom is something holy and sacred, hell it's for me too.

    However, how does freedom equate with guns? Is it that it's always about self-protection? I can understand the history of your country and how it formed too with the mentality of the settlers who needed to defend themselves. I say there is absolutely nothing wrong in with defending your life, obviously, but where do you draw the line? There's also the saying that your freedom ends where mine begins and it doesn't also take a genius to figure out that violence begets violence.

    Captain Chaos wasn't the (only) problem, but it seems like he was/is a huge catalyst for a social upheaval and people had been fed up with the system for a long time and I'd say that for a good reason too. The problem isn't just the right, obviously. It clearly isn't that black and white, because the Democraps are so corrupt too and the extreme left is quite bonkers too. How would you see that things could be normalized in a society which has become so polarized and is it even possible in the current political climate? It is very possible that the Orange Messiah will run in a few years time and win, then what happens? Business as usual? I share the "optimism" of Chris Hedges.
    Well so far as the differences between states and cities, the red state/blue state thing really comes into play there. Generally speaking gun laws are stricter in both democrat run states, and even cities. There’s also a separate distinction between cities, and surrounding rural areas, with rural areas usually being much more gun saturated.

    So I live in a deep red state (Tennessee), and in a very rural area, so like I was saying earlier guns are commonplace out here, and the sounds of someone either hunting or target practice is not at all unusual. It just REALLY ramped up during the election challenge fiasco.

    Every now and zen I’ll even see someone open carrying, and my attitude is I just feel all the much safer. I just happen to prefer carrying concealed, it’s no one’s business whether I’m armed or not, but to each their own. I’m sitting in my mechanic’s waiting room right now with my gun tucked in my wasteland for just in case, but no one needs to know that.

    Now if you happen to live in a deep blue city within a deep blue state like say New York City or Los Angeles, it’s very difficult to get a gun legally, much less get a conceal permit.

    The connection between freedom and guns goes to our 2ND Amendment, and it seems it was placed right behind the First Amendment right to free speech, as it’s protector.

    For sure Captain Chaos didn’t start this fire, but you’re dead on in noticing he was the great catalyst. I swear is like both sides of these warring parties have lost their minds over this fucking guy, I don’t understand it, but it’s for sure a very serious problem.

    Like I was saying earlier, the tensions have eased a bit, but I’m just hoping it’s not the calm before Qanon’s “Storm”. There’s still gasoline splashed all over the place, and all it takes is a match. I have no idea what can be done about it, there’s so much deep rooted bitterness between the Crypts and the Bloods (I mean the D’s and the R’s) I don’t know how it can ever be resolved.

    Cable news doesn’t help matters either, because the more people that flock to the slabs on events that they want to hear the more money they make, so they just keep hyping it up to try and keep people coming back to find out more and more reasons to hate those despicable people on the other side. It’s like a perpetual motion machine.

    Chris: Yes, you are spot on that America’s far Right could be a very dangerous force being armed to the teeth. For the longest time the sentiment has been to only use them to kill if their government turned tyrannical, or a foreign enemy invasion. But now…

    That’s why I’m warning it’s not a good idea to keep poking that sleeping bear. I know they’re of course doing their own poking, but like you said, the other side would be no match for them. But if the blood letting ever started, I don’t know how it doesn’t just spiral out of control from there. We’d more than like be okay out here in the country, just hoist an American flag up in the front yard, lay low and hunker down.

    And also yes indeed, to refer to America’s Democratic Party as Left is ridiculous as compared to various European countries. And to call them far Left? Wow… All I can do is shake my head at people on the Right calling Sleepy Joe and company Socialists, or even Communists. Really?

    Oh, and back to the guns real quick. That horse done left the barn, there’s already more guns out there than there are people. Even if it suddenly became illegal to buy them from here on out (which would never happen), they’re already out there, and as the NRA likes to say about giving them up? “I’ll give you my gun when you pry it from my cold, dead hands”.

    A lot of people probably WOULD give them up, but a lot wouldn’t just like that phrase says. It would be a living nightmare trying to make that happen, and a lot of cops would walk off they’re jobs if ordered to do so. It would take a full out military campaign, and even knows if THEY could even make that happen to any great degree, or how many of them would refuse those orders as well.

    Whether it worked or not though, there would essentially be the collapse of The United States.

    But again, the vast majority of gun owners are just like me, peaceful family people who only want to be left alone to go about their daily business. Do you know the #1 thing they hate about the gun issue? Guns being in the hands of the wrong people. Those are the only ones we would ever shoot if it came down to an unlikely encounter.

    Just like me sitting here waiting for my truck to get done. If some crack head storms in here waving a gun around and threatening people? I’m going to shoot him dead first chance he gives me. Fuck him! That’s why good decent people legally carry them out in public, for just such a horrific encounter. So something can be done about it. The police are usually there only in time to investigate what happened.
    The unexamined life is not worth living.

    Socrates

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    Fred, the part that people outside the US find utterly crazy is that you would need to or even want to carry a concealed handgun on you at all times. Unless you are an anti-terrorist agent or someone in danger of being assassinated, it is a sign of insanity to want to walk around with a deadly weapon at all times. I mean that quite literally.

    I know it has been normalised in the US, but it is a sign of mass mental illness.

    In many European countries, such as the UK or Norway, even police don't carry weapons on them. Most don't even have tasers.

    It is only in failed states and broken societies, where the rule of law has broken down, that people feel the need to carry weapons on them, let alone deadly ones, not to mention actual military weapons, like machine guns, as many in the US do.

    This is why I am not very hopeful as regards what might happen if this slow-moving right-wing coup that has been going on for a number of years, actually succeeds in gaining power. It really will be very much like the fictional fascist takeover in Handmaid's Tale.

    Could there be a civil conflict?

    I used to think so, but now I actually seriously doubt it. Why? Because the left is impotent and mostly unarmed. They'll be like helpless little lambs when the crazy right-wing militia types start putting them in their place. It will be probably, swift, short and brutal, after which all Americans will live in a fascist dictatorship, with vigilante justice and armed militias patrolling the streets, shooting undesirables at a whim. I really don't see how that outcome could be avoided at this point.

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  25. #1018
    Super Moderator United States Dreamtimer's Avatar
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    This is part of the collapse dynamic. When the system doesn't function the way it should. When the system tries to cover-up rather than uncover the criminal(s).

    It was the leak of the video which led to investigation and then trial in the murder of Ahmaud Aubrey.

    It was not the system functioning as it should.

    A District Attorney has been indicted in relation to blocking investigation of the crime.


    Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ix9K4BfDmL8



    The long term effect of allowing the system to be broken with 'certain people' is that eventually, most all of the people will fall victim to the broken system.

    There aren't really any safe bubbles.
    Last edited by Dreamtimer, 25th November 2021 at 12:01.

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  27. #1019
    Senior Member BeastOfBologna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Chris View Post
    Fred, the part that people outside the US find utterly crazy is that you would need to or even want to carry a concealed handgun on you at all times. Unless you are an anti-terrorist agent or someone in danger of being assassinated, it is a sign of insanity to want to walk around with a deadly weapon at all times. I mean that quite literally.

    I know it has been normalised in the US, but it is a sign of mass mental illness.

    In many European countries, such as the UK or Norway, even police don't carry weapons on them. Most don't even have tasers.

    It is only in failed states and broken societies, where the rule of law has broken down, that people feel the need to carry weapons on them, let alone deadly ones, not to mention actual military weapons, like machine guns, as many in the US do.

    This is why I am not very hopeful as regards what might happen if this slow-moving right-wing coup that has been going on for a number of years, actually succeeds in gaining power. It really will be very much like the fictional fascist takeover in Handmaid's Tale.

    Could there be a civil conflict?

    I used to think so, but now I actually seriously doubt it. Why? Because the left is impotent and mostly unarmed. They'll be like helpless little lambs when the crazy right-wing militia types start putting them in their place. It will be probably, swift, short and brutal, after which all Americans will live in a fascist dictatorship, with vigilante justice and armed militias patrolling the streets, shooting undesirables at a whim. I really don't see how that outcome could be avoided at this point.
    We liberals are not that impotent, only compromising in spirit. Even Jesus was pushed to the point of anger and it wasn't pretty. Trust me when I say that there are plenty of blacks, Hispanics, and Gays <snicker> that are ready to go to war against whitey, hell, there are plenty of whiteys ready to go to war against whitey and that has been the case since the original Civil War. I have family members that would be on both sides of that conflict but those realities are synonymous to WWI trench soldiers, cannon fodder for the big guns that are in the hands of the military. Police would probably go with the fascists, even the nonwhites, but yet many would not, it is strictly of matter of numbers and who believes in the true vision of America. I reiterate that most of the military command firmly believes in those principles. And they got planes, trains, and bombs ... big bombs, drones to take out the likes of the Qanon Shaman, Ted Cruz, Bitch McConnell, and even the Golden One if necessary.
    “But those who have been under the shadow, who have gone down at last to elemental things, will have a wider charity” - Herbert George Wells -

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  29. #1020
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    Quote Originally posted by BeastOfBologna View Post
    We liberals are not that impotent, only compromising in spirit. Even Jesus was pushed to the point of anger and it wasn't pretty. Trust me when I say that there are plenty of blacks, Hispanics, and Gays <snicker> that are ready to go to war against whitey, hell, there are plenty of whiteys ready to go to war against whitey and that has been the case since the original Civil War. I have family members that would be on both sides of that conflict but those realities are synonymous to WWI trench soldiers, cannon fodder for the big guns that are in the hands of the military. Police would probably go with the fascists, even the nonwhites, but yet many would not, it is strictly of matter of numbers and who believes in the true vision of America. I reiterate that most of the military command firmly believes in those principles. And they got planes, trains, and bombs ... big bombs, drones to take out the likes of the Qanon Shaman, Ted Cruz, Bitch McConnell, and even the Golden One if necessary.
    I get your point, but we're talking about a far-right takeover or coup here. Once that is completed, there would be a purge, so that everyone who isn't sufficiently faithful to the cause, would be removed from the police and military. Right-wing militias (I think they're around 5 million strong at last count, probably the biggest group of armed people anywhere in the world, including the Chinese military) would unofficially support the takeover process. When they're done with the purge, only those on the far right will have any real power.

    Sure, there would be some resistance, but the danger here is that there wouldn't be enough of it, because this time around, they're going to do it properly and won't try half-measures.

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