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  1. #46
    Super Moderator United States Dreamtimer's Avatar
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    I didn't say you were using dog-whistles, Fred. I said it's used as one. You could be making perfectly legit statements each time.

    That doesn't change the fact that it's a dog-whistle for a whole lot of folks.

    Just like the word liberal, which Gingrich said was his mission to turn into a disparaging term. It's all in the ears of the 'dogs'.


    The imbalance is a big fat giveaway. If people were simply concerned about the undue influence of billionaires they'd point the finger at all of them.

    The need for a figure to hate is the most disturbing part. It doesn't make America Great in any way.

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  3. #47
    Super Moderator United States Dreamtimer's Avatar
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    See here.

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  5. #48
    Senior Member Fred Steeves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    I didn't say you were using dog-whistles, Fred. I said it's used as one. You could be making perfectly legit statements each time.

    That doesn't change the fact that it's a dog-whistle for a whole lot of folks.
    Oh I never thought that was aimed at me, just that I've never really considered the nationality of Soros as part of his overall package. Beyond the fact that he aided the Nazis to keep himself alive as a kid anyway.

    It hit me that if just mentioning ole Georgey boy can be considered code for Jew bastard by some, then certain people may well have looked at me with those suspicious eyes over the years.

    I knew it was like that with Obama and just didn't give a shit because I found the charge utterly ludicrous. I mean sure there's plenty of whites who DID despise him just for that, just as there are blacks who despise whites for the same reason, but that wasn't to stop me from criticizing him. Now I'm aware it's the same if the person in question happens to be Jewish.
    The unexamined life is not worth living.

    Socrates

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  7. #49
    Super Moderator United States Dreamtimer's Avatar
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    One of the reasons it helps to learn which terms are loaded is that a person can avoid them and have a more constructive conversation/debate.

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  9. #50
    Senior Member Fred Steeves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    One of the reasons it helps to learn which terms are loaded is that a person can avoid them and have a more constructive conversation/debate.
    Ya just lost me there, what types of terms should one think about avoiding these days? The only possible example I can think of from this conversation is George Soros.

    Oh, I forgot liberal.
    Last edited by Fred Steeves, 23rd October 2018 at 19:07.
    The unexamined life is not worth living.

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  11. #51
    Super Moderator United States Dreamtimer's Avatar
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    It was just a general comment. As with Soros' name or any other triggering name/term. That's what dog-whistles are.
    Last edited by Dreamtimer, 23rd October 2018 at 19:24.

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  13. #52
    Senior Member Fred Steeves's Avatar
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    Okay, I've finally found a few minutes here and there to do some cursory research into this "dog whistle" thing. I see more where you're coming from now DT, and certainly there is something to it. To say it ain't there would be ridiculous, but from the skimming of many different sites talking about it, it also looks to me like you can point at just about anything and make this claim.

    It's most certainly a Left aimed at the Right thing. IMO it is dichotomous (like other such things) in that there is value in having a certain eye for this sort of thing, however from what I saw it's nearly ubiquitous in being used for scoring hard core political points.

    Now as an aside I found nowhere that any particular person/name (Soros in this case) can be construed as being one of the code word no no's to ever say, but I did find numerous references such as terms like "international bankers" being code for Jew. Apparently phrases like "east coast poiltics" is also code for Jewish politics. No more talk about the bankers.

    I've just begun looking into this, but already I see a whole lot of what we can and cannot say. Again where there's smoke there's fire, but there's also some thought policing going on here IMO.

    My 2 cents.
    The unexamined life is not worth living.

    Socrates

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  15. #53
    Senior Member NotAPretender's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Aragorn View Post
    Or when they are being partisan bigots whose primary objective in life is to continue waging war on what they loathe.

    The US Republican vantage has always been "It's my way or the highway", and so they loathe everything that isn't "their way". From the Republican vantage, everything — and I do mean everything — is always the fault of "the libtards" [sic].

    It must be extremely blissful to have such a narrow mind. Life is so simple when there's only one thing you have to think about.
    Well, it is the converse of the udder thang. I've always been of the mind that the libtard pejorative was the product of raging projection, but then that's just me (and most of the rest of the world). It's not about blame...as I expressed my belief before, they really and truly can't help themselves. All we can do here in the U.S. is wait until it is over. I have experience with it having lived through Saint Reagan's time. I explained to my daughter how it would play out to reassure her... and anybody else that needed to hear it. I was worried that some people wouldn't be able to deal..my daughter has a mind and will of steel, though...but one never knows.
    "We are one thought away from changing the world!"

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  17. #54
    Super Moderator United States Dreamtimer's Avatar
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    Hillary is another trigger. The name may or may not qualify as a dog-whistle, but the purpose is the same.

    I'm surprised to see you characterize it as a Left or Right thing, Fred. It's a social and political tool that's been used across the spectrum throughout history.

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  19. #55
    Senior Member Fred Steeves's Avatar
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    It's not my characterization DT, like I said that's just simply going off of what I found bouncing around various sites. Probably 10-12 of them. They were all pretty much singing off the same song sheet, and it was all aimed at Republicans. All I could find is that apparently it's only Republicans that engage in this. If you can show me something otherwise, as always I'll be more than willing to take another look at it.

    Now this thing with names: First off both examples you've given me (Hillary and George Soros) are people on the Left, which so far dove tails nicely into what I found yesterday that people on the Left, minorities, Jews, etc. are almost always the victims of this. And second, how is it not word policing political correctness, if I can't even say someone's name for fear of it possibly being construed as code that I'm actually a secret Jew hater, woman hater, or that perhaps I'm some Right wing zealot on the attack yet again?
    Last edited by Fred Steeves, 24th October 2018 at 13:47.
    The unexamined life is not worth living.

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  21. #56
    Super Moderator United States Dreamtimer's Avatar
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    The English language has an immense vocabulary. It's not really hard to find words that work. We invent new words all the time.

    People have recognized the value of protocol, politesse, manners, norms, social standards, time and place, I could go on. We moderate our speech all the time. It's part of good communication.

    You do your best and you don't let people guilt trip you. If someone calls out something I say as racist, I remain calm, correct them and explain what I mean. If their arguments are bogus, I'll push back. If they make a good point, I'll likely try to find a better way to express what I say.

    Intolerance has been around for a long time. We have a plethora of tools to use in order to counteract that and the smarts to do it.

    Southerners use charm and politeness as a matter of course. That takes effort. People are raised to know the 'right words' to say. That's not censorship.

    Language use always changes. They have since the inception of the country and probably civilization.


    I could have offered up the names Bush and Cheney instead. It doesn't make any difference.

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  23. #57
    Senior Member Fred Steeves's Avatar
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    Come on DT, now Bush and Cheney are dog whistles as well? I think you're just pulling names out of a hat by this point. Southern politeness and choosing one's words carefully is one thing, but now there is no doubt in my mind that what you are so strongly advocating is indeed modern day, PC word pinching culture.

    And I'm having nothing of it.
    The unexamined life is not worth living.

    Socrates

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  25. #58
    Administrator Aragorn's Avatar
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    And here we have yet another thread that was assimilated by the United States of Borg.

    You guys are making it very difficult for me to still find a thread on this forum that I can actually look at without feeling like an alien.
    = DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR =

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  27. #59
    Senior Member Fred Steeves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Aragorn View Post
    You guys are making it very difficult for me to still find a thread on this forum that I can actually look at without feeling like an alien.
    I hear ya, but this may not be so simple as it seems. Like the sucking down whirlpool that develops when a large ocean going vessel goes under, what happens when a "large ocean going vessel" like the United States goes under?

    Quote Originally posted by Chris View Post
    This thread is a gathering place for all collapse-related matters. Signs that the planet is headed towards trouble as is our industrialised civilisation.
    The unexamined life is not worth living.

    Socrates

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  29. #60
    Moderator Wind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Fred Steeves View Post
    what happens when a "large ocean going vessel" like the United States goes under?
    It pulls down all the other smaller ships with it.

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