Kundalini Awakening, Chakras, Enlightenment, Heaven and related matters.

[Kathy]

I feel that when you fall in love and you know this is the one, then that in itself is marriage, that is the joining of two hearts and minds in life. When one goes through the getting of a certificate through statute law, that its business.

[modwiz]

I feel that when you fall in love and you know this is the one, then that in itself is marriage, that is the joining of two hearts and minds in life. When one goes through the getting of a certificate through statute law, that its business.

Well said Kathy. I used to have a good business as an Interfaith Misister and it was good money. I stopped when I realized my signature was putting people into financial/legal bondage to the state and its many corrupt institutions. A clean conscience is far better than cash.

[Chris]

We talked about DMT and its significance on this forum before. What I did not realise is that DMT and its mystical properties were actually a major plot element in a Hollywood movie. There are probably other movies like that, but I just watched the Lazarus Effect and came across this gem of a conversation:

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25dRADlMR3A


In fact you can watch the entire movie on netflix, or even youtube. It is a silly horror movie, not even that scary to be honest, but it does bring up some interesting philosophical questions, so it's worth a watch in my opinion.

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmjBsGvvGgA


Suffice to say, injecting a synthetic DMT compound into the brain gives the protagonists psychic powers and a connection to what lies beyond. In my opinion that is pretty spot on. Of course, since this is a Hollywood movie, they take the whole DMT thing to ridiculous lengths, but it is still rather gratifying that this is getting recognised and mainstreamed more and more.

[Chris]

I was wondering about heaven and hell last night. Sometimes, when I meditate I'm taken to this other place or other realm, incredibly quickly. It feels like I'm flying. I guess it is a form of astral travel. Of course my body stays put, in the physical realm, but my spirit soars to unimaginable heights. I can only describe this other place as heaven, we really don't have another word for it. Also, the inhabitants of this realm call it heaven, so who am I to argue with them? It doesn't happen very often, but sometime I commune with the inhabitants of this realm. It is an exchange of thought, emotion, images and visions. Last night it was archangel Michael. He told me many things, but I find it difficult to remember the fine detail, when I get back into my body. However, that is of little consequence. It is really the incredible emotion, feeling and energy that matters. I'm struggling to describe it precisely, but I'll try anyway.

We have discussed Kundalini here extensively. However, that is really just a mechanism. A mechanism for ascension, I suspect. The place you ascend to is heaven. It is not a physical place as I've said before, but perhaps a higher dimension, or entirely outside the physical universe for that matter. When the Kundalini activates and rises, there is a quickening. What quickens, is the energy flow in your body, but also the vibrational frequency of your whole energy field, of which the physical body, is but a minor, disposable and temporary part. I believe, that each step in raising the vibrational frequency of the body opens up yet another higher dimension to human consciousness, that remained hidden up to that point. The Universe in our heavenly state seems boundless, not just in terms of physical space and time, but dimensions. There appear to be an infinite number of dimensions that are accessible in that state. There truly are no boundaries or limitations, as the spirit expands outwards into boundless, limitless infinity.


There are others there, whose presence you can sense. You can connect to them and commune with them if you so wish, or you can exist in your own private universe. I prefer to reach out, connect, communicate and learn. They call themselves the Denizens of Heaven, these beings. I guess our term for them would be angels, or gods for those from a different religious background.


I was with Michael for a while. Time does not seem to matter in that realm, so it is difficult to say how much time passed there in comparison to here on earth. He taught me about heaven and hell. Heaven is the state of mind and consciousness you find yourself in when you devote most of your efforts to serve and help others. Because everyone in heaven is looking out for each other, individual need and want does not exist.

The denizens of Heaven are only concerned about the welfare of others and constantly strive to help those that are stuck in the more unpleasant realms. They call our reality the Middle World (Midgard in old Norse). It is neither heaven, nor hell, but an in between place where good and evil are in constant battle. Hell is the realm people find themselves in, when most of their efforts and thoughts are devoted to serving and helping themselves, rather than others. By their self-serving and selfish thoughts and actions, they create a bubble around them that traps them in their own misery. It isolates them from others, creating loneliness, hopelessness and despair.

The root of most, if not all human suffering is this self-imposed isolation from the Greater reality we find ourselves in, the many intelligent forms of life, only some of which are human, that want to interact with us and help us. Your own expectations and state of mind, through the frequency it generates and the energy it attracts, is what decides whether your interactions will be with the denizens of heaven or those of hell.


These two groups are in constant competition with each other and try to influence the people of the middle world in subtle ways. They are also engaged in a constant spiritual war. Michael told me that they are well aware of duality, that there can be no good without evil and no light without dark, but they strive to minimise the effect that evil has on this world and though evil may seem to triumph momentarily, due to its very nature, it is always driven back and defeated in the end. Each and every one of us has to choose a side and serve in any way we can. The side we choose determines where we end up after we die, at least temporarily.

[Dreamtimer]

Very interesting, Chris. I'd like to find more of the good people to hang around. I do know many, and it seems over time, the kinds of people attracted are in line with whether I'm selfish or not. I see this with other people as well.

Sadly, I've seen some caring people become more selfish, but I've seen others go the opposite way.

I'm naturally someone who would share, cooperate, trust, be kind...I wish there was a way to easily detect others like that.

The instincts work pretty well...I guess I'll keep on keepin' on with those.

[Chris]

Very interesting, Chris. I'd like to find more of the good people to hang around. I do know many, and it seems over time, the kinds of people attracted are in line with whether I'm selfish or not. I see this with other people as well.

Sadly, I've seen some caring people become more selfish, but I've seen others go the opposite way.

I'm naturally someone who would share, cooperate, trust, be kind...I wish there was a way to easily detect others like that.

The instincts work pretty well...I guess I'll keep on keepin' on with those.

Yes, it's all about the instincts, isn't it? I call it vibrational compatibility. Good and selfless people are rare, but if you are one yourself, you will immediately recognise a kindred spirit. It is not unlike falling in love, but it happens at a different level, the level of friendship. You just know that someone is of the same vibrational resonance as you are. When such people spend time with each other, their energetic vibrations harmonise with each other and they become almost like one, sharing thought, emotion and feeling, without the need to speak.

[Maggie]

I often wonder also about heaven and hell. IMO we DO create our own heaven and hell in this "borderland experience" here where the highest and lowest seem to be adjacent.

I do care that all beings be happy and free. But actually I doubt this is possible "here". As lucky as I am and supported by my sense of "presence" I am not enjoying the bright and shiny and visceral offerings of the borderland. Is there a Place" where I can be with entities who actually feel like ones I appreciate:

1. Know something but are not controlling and don't want to preach to others but just enjoy being together with the multiplicity.
2. Have a sense of humor that means everything may be food for laughter.
3. have the inclination to be 100% transparent with ALL their bugaboos.
4. don't "eat" anything or anyone and have their own source of nourishment.
5. Don't create a "collective" reality of fear and suffering.

I see all kinds of weird inversion in the borderland where "helpfulness" is often a mask for sucking energy. I see all KINDS of grasping of energetic suckors. I am not afraid of this but just want to avoid the need to take and to give and just Have in connection to source.

MY biggest question is "how" we are to express our concern for others. My greatest concern for me is that I really don't feel that others are going to "get anything" by preaching. Moreover I have seen how over my lifetime my own inclinations have changed by experience and maybe hormones? It kind of galls me to see people who have behaved in every which way look back and tell others not to do what they did.

I really don't like the borderland which is sharp and painfully hurtful. It is cloaked in veils and muddied in murkiness. I suspect there is an etheric astral borderland just as mixed and veiled but maybe a bit less cloudy and less "weaponized" by stoney form? It may be less boring "there" but its still material and is no better IMO so I am not sure it is an alternative. It seems from those I know who sought the astral that it is even more deluding than the mundane vision. I have met Many who became insufferably smug after they imagined they now were "wise".

I think that by walking our talk we are offering what we really have. If its is ignorance still at least it is honest> IMO...

[Chris]

„ I often wonder also about heaven and hell. IMO we DO create our own heaven and hell in this "borderland experience" here where the highest and lowest seem to be adjacent.

I do care that all beings be happy and free. But actually I doubt this is possible "here". As lucky as I am and supported by my sense of "presence" I am not enjoying the bright and shiny and visceral offerings of the borderland. Is there a Place" where I can be with entities who actually feel like ones I appreciate:

1. Know something but are not controlling and don't want to preach to others but just enjoy being together with the multiplicity.
2. Have a sense of humor that means everything may be food for laughter.
3. have the inclination to be 100% transparent with ALL their bugaboos.
4. don't "eat" anything or anyone and have their own source of nourishment.
5. Don't create a "collective" reality of fear and suffering. „

It is rather interesting that in ancient Hindu scripture, particularly the Puranas (Ancient Stories”, there are extensive descriptions of the realms of the gods. The Sanskrit term for each of these realms is Loka, (the English words Local, Location, etc… have the same roots), which can mean island, but is generally understood to mean planet in this context. Getting to one of these Lokas generally involves getting into a flying craft of sorts, a fiery, roaring, flying chariot.

In the Mahabharata for instance, when the protagonist Arjuna visits „Heaven” or the realm of the gods, to spend time with his father Indra, the thunder-throwing sky God (Same as our Zeus and Jupiter), he is taken there in a flying chariot by Indra’s charioteer. He’s clearly flying in space, as first each planet he zooms by is mentioned, then the various stars as well, so he’s clearly in an interstellar craft.

Even more interestingly, a story in the Bhagavata Purana (which tells the story of the god Vishnu’s 10 incarnations), a devotee of Vishnu is rewarded by being taken to the Heaven Vaikuntha (clearly a planet in this context), in his physical body. He is told by Vishnu’s charioteer, that he cannot get there in his current physical body and he needs to be transformed into a light body of sorts. When the transformation is complete, he begins to shine like a Deva (god) and only then can get into Vishnu’s chariot. From the description of the journey, it is clear that he is taken to another planet. When he arrives on Vaikuntha, he is astonished that Vishnu isn’t alone, but is in fact surrounded by an entire species of blue-skinned, four-armed humanoids, just like him, on a planet that is described as a paradise of sorts.

There are also some sages in Hindu lore, such as Narada, that have the ability to travel to other planets, where the gods reside. There are many descriptions of these planets, which are all outside our solar system. I suspect Narada travels there in his astral body, or perhaps in a light body of sorts, this is never made explicit though.

The point is, places, such as the one you describe here, do exist, but they aren’t inhabited by Homo Sapiens in a physical form. These are either higher dimensional beings, even existing in a light body form, or basically, aliens, sometimes both. I have had interactions with some of these beings and I have no doubt that they exist, but everyone has to make up their own minds of course. I think it is up to us to create a similar paradise on earth, by raising our consciousness and basically evolving into a higher form of life.

„ I see all kinds of weird inversion in the borderland where "helpfulness" is often a mask for sucking energy. I see all KINDS of grasping of energetic suckors. I am not afraid of this but just want to avoid the need to take and to give and just Have in connection to source. „

Indeed, energy vampires are a constant problem. Thankfully, if you are connected to „Source” this becomes less of a problem. I am again reminded of the Mahabharata. In the final chapter, the Pandavas, the five demi-god brothers, who are the protagonists of this epic (I can honestly say, the story is even better than Game of Thrones, which I also enjoy BTW) decide to seek out death by trying to reach the highest peak of the Himalayas, thinking that is where paradise will await them. As it turns out, all five of them end up in Hell, the eldest brother, Yudhishtira, voluntarily. When he sees his brothers suffering in Hell (and the descriptions of the various tortures they have to endure are rather graphic), they ask him to stay behind and provide him with comfort.

As the most righteous person that ever lived and the son of the God of Justice, his presence lessens the sufferings of others in Hell and he decides to stay behind out of compassion. It turns out this was a test by the gods and as they are pleased with his actions, they lift him and his brothers out of Hell and take them to Heaven, the realm of the gods. There is the usual confusion about what and where these places are and the rudimentary cosmology of ancient Hindus is no help here. Interestingly, in Hinduism, both Heaven and Hell are temporary, where each soul will spend a given time based on whether their good deeds outweigh their bad deeds and vice versa. After their assigned time is over, each soul gets reincarnated according to their Karma, which is decided by how they acted in their previous lives. There is no judge as such, it happens automatically as a natural law.

What I want to say with this, is that a righteous person has a soothing effect on others. Their mere presence lessens suffering and brings good luck to everyone that comes in contact with them. This is why Holy men are held in such high regard even today, at least in the East. If you are the least bit righteous, you will attract people that need your help and will unconsciously piggyback off the positive vibes you give out. That may be annoying, but it is a natural consequence of being a higher vibrational person.

„ MY biggest question is "how" we are to express our concern for others. My greatest concern for me is that I really don't feel that others are going to "get anything" by preaching. Moreover I have seen how over my lifetime my own inclinations have changed by experience and maybe hormones? It kind of galls me to see people who have behaved in every which way look back and tell others not to do what they did. „

As I said above, just being a higher-vibrational person will help those around you. Preaching is indeed pretty counterproductive, though it can become necessary at times. I feel that we all have a responsibility to teach others, but they have to ask for our teaching, we can’t go around forcibly trying to convert people to our own view and belief system.

„ I really don't like the borderland which is sharp and painfully hurtful. It is cloaked in veils and muddied in murkiness. I suspect there is an etheric astral borderland just as mixed and veiled but maybe a bit less cloudy and less "weaponized" by stoney form? It may be less boring "there" but its still material and is no better IMO so I am not sure it is an alternative. It seems from those I know who sought the astral that it is even more deluding than the mundane vision. I have met Many who became insufferably smug after they imagined they now were "wise".

I think that by walking our talk we are offering what we really have. If its is ignorance still at least it is honest> IMO... „

I fell into that trap too and so did many others. I think it is pretty hard to avoid, as you suddenly feel all-knowing and even all-powerful. given that you are connected to and indeed part of a higher reality and a higher state of collective consciousness. It is easy to forget, that you have no power and wisdom of your own, you are borrowing it from a higher source and it is given to you for a specific reason, to serve a higher purpose. It can just as easily be taken away from you, if you violate your path and embark on a self-serving ego trip, thinking you are „the son of God”. Just ask David Icke. That slap in the face, that brings you back to earth, so to speak, is very necessary and brings a certain amount of much-needed humility with it.

[Fred Steeves]

Imagine a Blackhawk helicopter landing in Athens 2,500 years ago, the crew emerges decked out in full flight suits, and a quick flame thrower display to make sure they have everyone in total awe, then ask to see the high priest.

They explain to him he is invited to see the land of the gods, and he of course accepts. They fly up up and away at top battle speed disappearing from sight in seconds. Imagine all the priest is taking in scanning the inside of the craft, watching his world quickly disappear as they rocket out over the vast ocean for some time, and then make a rapid decent to land on a cruising aircraft carrier.

Imagine him taking the full tour of this bizarre floating land, watching the F 14's catapault off the bow in a deafening roar, witnessing a bombing display off the port side. Then being flown back to tell his strange and harrowing tale.

This is how I see "the gods". Are the pilots with the flame throwers superior to the priest in any way? Take away the technology and they are equals, with all the flaws, bad habits, and hang ups as the average Athenian walking the street.

Look at the legends of the gods, save for their "super powers" from the future or what have you, they are every bit as fucked up as we are. Dysfunctional families and all.

I challenge the gods to show me any different...

[Chris]

Imagine a Blackhawk helicopter landing in Athens 2,500 years ago, the crew emerges decked out in full flight suits, and a quick flame thrower display to make sure they have everyone in total awe, then ask to see the high priest.

They explain to him he is invited to see the land of the gods, and he of course accepts. They fly up up and away at top battle speed disappearing from sight in seconds. Imagine all the priest is taking in scanning the inside of the craft, watching his world quickly disappear as they rocket out over the vast ocean for some time, and then make a rapid decent to land on a cruising aircraft carrier.

Imagine him taking the full tour of this bizarre floating land, watching the F 14's catapault off the bow in a deafening roar, witnessing a bombing display off the port side. Then being flown back to tell his strange and harrowing tale.

This is how I see "the gods". Are the pilots with the flame throwers superior to the priest in any way? Take away the technology and they are equals, with all the flaws, bad habits, and hang ups as the average Athenian walking the street.

Look at the legends of the gods, save for their "super powers" from the future or what have you, they are every bit as fucked up as we are. Dysfunctional families and all.

I challenge the gods to show me any different...

That is a very good point. Although I think it is difficult to generalise in this instance, as there appear to be many different life forms that are more advanced than us. In some cases it goes way beyond technological superiority and we are talking about beings that do not even have physical forms any more and exist in way more dimensions than we do. I feel that science fiction is really useful in trying to envision and explain what different kinds of life could be out there, particularly the various Star Trek and Stargate series. Ancient myth can also be useful, but the highly limited cosmology that existed at the time is a serious problem. Our ancestors couldn't really differentiate between various islands as opposed to planets, Heaven, as in a higher dimensional plane and the Heavens, as in space. They also couldn't tell the difference between the Underworld, as in civilisations existing in deep underground caverns and what we would call Hell, a completely different plane of existence from our own. To be honest, I also struggle with this sometimes. Let's face it, none of us 3D creatures are equipped to understand the reality of higher dimensional planes.

Also, it is useful to keep in mind that "gods" are also people like us, even if they are more evolved. They may not be of the Homo Sapiens species, but in terms of their consciousness and sense of self, they really are very similar to us. There are good ones and evil ones, plus everything in between. Some are barely more than technologically advanced humanoids, others are powerful beyond anything we could imagine. There are also many who pose as gods, but are little more than spirits looking for their next meal, which they get from various forms of sacrifice and religious worship. My experience tells me, that worshipping any god or spirit as a higher being is a bad idea. You might as well worship prince Phillip, like the tribes of the South Pacific Island of Tanna do. Worship is food to those in the spirit world and major religions were obviously set up to provide these beings with sustenance. Just look at a Mecca pilgrimage, with massive crowds circling the Kaba stone in religious fervour. That is so obviously a way to collect worship energy, that it beggars belief that people would do that voluntarily. Of course the black cube is symbolic of Saturn and I fully agree with David Icke, that there is some sort of manipulation going on with both the moon and Saturn, they appear to be key ways in which humanity is exploited and manipulated. That said, it would be a mistake to assume that all higher dimensional beings / gods are automatically malevolent and evil. I do think that some are good and intend to help humanity.

[palooka's revenge]

I challenge the gods to show me any different...

personally, i include what many consider (myself included) THEE God in that list...

[Maggie]

SERIOUSLY I don't trust the "gods" at all and in fact think that the following of gods is the problem which has led to giving power away to "god's agents" whom we feel are intrinsically "better" than we. We may grouse about it but IMO it is almost IMPOSSIBLE to divest of the pyramidal structure of authority we hold in our psyches.

I cannot help but think about how despite the differences in religions, they all shout down to us from some pedestal that has "elevated" one group of "beings" over others.

By the way the whole lot of religions justify the Misogyny NAY Misanthropy (promise me anything but give me suffering) that is the baseline cultural artifact of the gods. I am sure we have a deep collective scar from the bullying.

My friend wrote this in another forum

there's a VERY interesting book out by Rita Nakasima Brock and Rebecca Ann Parker called "Saving Paradise: How Christianity Traded Love of This World for Crucifixion and Empire.

They wanted to study the roots of Christian thought before the council of Nicea shifted Christian thought, and they found that the dead Jesus was not even mentioned for the first 1000 years of Christian thinking, nor was it found in any Christian art whatsoever..

they went to the earliest known churches and studied the art, which was hidden behind the current worship centers, and found RADICALLY different art than the current Christian art, and in particular no crucifixions depicted until the year 965 when Christianity changed from a loving experience in this life to being baptized at the point of a sword by force to ensure the afterlife.

They concluded that in the early church, "The death of Jesus, it seemed, was not a key to meaning, not an image of devotion, not a ritual symbol of faith for the Christians who worshipped among the early churches' glittering mosaics. The Christ they experienced was the incarnate risen Christ, the child of baptism, the healer of the sick, the teacher of his friends, and the one who defeated death and transfigured the world with the Spirit of life.

The rest of the 552 pages makes a very convincing case about how early Christianity was way different than today, it was about a celebration of life as a potential paradise here and now, achieved through ethical living and caring for each other lovingly.

This celebration of life changed drastically at the time of the Crusades, as the idea of heaven was moved from this life to the afterlife, and the crusaders were told they achieved forgiveness of their sins through killing others. That's the point where all the hokum about dying on the cross to pay the price for humanity's sins entered Christian theology, and since then violence has always been a part of Christianity.

In the preface they summarize this by saying "We show how the erotic joy of paradise was transformed into a union of eros and torture, worship of violence and victims, and self-inflicted harm."

Charlie Curtis, BCH

I heard an interesting aside in this video about "Christianity" being actually "Paulinism".


Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zR8Rve_Fy3c?t=19m58s

[Chris]

Don't come to me for a defence of organised religion, not a fan here. Clearly, they were set up to manipulate and exploit people. That being said, this does not mean that there is no value or truth at all in any of the major religions or that we can't have friends in high places. Like it or not, the universe is hierarchical at every level and just that there are beings that are lower than us in the hierarchy, there must necessarily be some that are higher.

The suppression of the Divine Feminine certainly bothers me to a great degree and I have been advocating bringing back balance to our religious views in this regard, by giving the Goddess her due. Ever wonder why the Holy Trinity has a Father, a Son, but no mother? Yep, they took her out of it, but the Holy Spirit is very clearly supposed to symbolise the feminine creative force in the Universe, known as Shakti to the Hindus. In fact symbolising the Holy Spirit as a Dove is obviously a nod to the Goddess Ishtar (who was symbolised as half-woman, half-dove), worshipped as Queen of Heaven throughout the whole region and mentioned in the Bible as well under that name, before most references to her were removed.

[Maggie]

Chris:

Like it or not, the universe is hierarchical at every level and just that there are beings that are lower than us in the hierarchy, there must necessarily be some that are higher.

Me:

We may grouse about it but IMO it is almost IMPOSSIBLE to divest of the pyramidal structure of authority we hold in our psyches.

Nature has no hierarchy as far as I can see? I feel compassion for this so DEEPLY embedded belief because it is entrenched as to seem the fact. Everyone on the ladder needing to climb leads to all kinds of entertainment to the gods. HAHAHA look at those ants GO. That is what we think about nature documentaries too. SO, who made up this hierarchy.

I have an opinion that whomever the originators of hierarchy, this was not GOD (life, creation, natural law, love...any name given to the master architecture who's beingness may be ineffable but who IS known by workings). There were those who love hierarchy because they may presume they can knock a bunch off the ladder and climb to the top.

I think God is an anarchist.

To recapitulate, the proposition that hierarchies are part of human nature should entail the following:

* All societies in history should have hierarchies. (they don’t)
* We should all desire to obey. (we don’t)
* It should not be necessary to indoctrinate people to obey. (it is)
* People left to their own devices should naturally form hierarchies. (they don’t: see examples from Anarchy in Action chapter 2, notably the Peckham Experiment)

If hierarchies are not natural, then what is natural? As Kropotkin famously argued, mutual aid permeates the animal kingdom, including humans, and is probably a more important evolutionary factor than warfare between species or competition within a species. The faculties which led the human species to unlock the secrets of nature were social adaptations, not tools of war.

This is, of course, not a total vindication of the mutualist stance, but it’s something to consider. Tennyson’s conception of nature as being “red in tooth and claw” has been dominant in our psyches, Kropotkin notwithstanding, and the delusional Hobbesian conception of primitive anarchies as “nasty, brutish and short” has dominated theoretical politics. The position that mutual aid is the most important factor in nature and natural societies provides a strong counter-point to these assumptions.

[Fred Steeves]

I challenge the gods to show me any different...

personally, i include what many consider (myself included) THEE God in that list...

Absolutely, Yahweh/Jehova certainly belongs in the mix with the rest of those in the pantheon.


Not to be confused with a showing of disrespect here however, I want to make this little caveat crystal clear. That would be as foolish as showing disrespect to any particular group of people. The gods would be varying degrees of good and bad just as we are, and would earn respect/disrespect accordingly. More like a coming of age and challenging an overbearing parent with: "Show me the money, show me you're better, and that I am any less than you are".

Go on, show me the money!

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBS0OWGUidc