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Thread: Kundalini Awakening, Chakras, Enlightenment, Heaven and related matters.

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    Senior Member Emil El Zapato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Chris View Post
    Somebody on reddit posted some really good questions on Kundalini Awakening, which I took the time to answer. I think I should also post it here, in case anyone's interested. Enjoy.



    1. What exactly is Kundalini and how is it experienced, day to day? Is it just something you "use" or does it change the way you exist? Some of the posts I have read here almost seem to suggest that this energy can be turned on and off, like flipping a switch to put it roughly. Many suggest that it helps you learn about yourself, but that's not all it does, is it not? Psychologising yourself is no substitute for Kundalini awakening. A Kundalini awakening, at least as far as I understand it, entails at the starting point an awakening to a previously unknown dimension of spiritual awareness and action and at the end point when Kundalini conquers the Sahasrara Chakra and is fully integrated into you, it entails total enlightenment along the lines of Nirvana. Is that not correct? So in other words, from the start a Kundalini awakening should open up a whole new, different, previously unknown spiritual mode of consciousness/awareness? Does that not entail a sudden and total shift in mode of existence and perception, even if it only becomes perfected at the final stage?

    - There is a difference between various stages of Kundalini awakening. Those that you may call “enlightened” are the ones in whom the condition of Kundalini Awakening is a permanent fixture. The actual term is Jivanmukta, Christians would call them saints, Buddhists would refer to them as Bodhisattvas, Jains as Tirtankharas, The point is, the serpent not only rose to the top and pierced the crown (Sahasrara), but is now permanently lodged there and doesn’t descend, ever. We know from Gopi Krishna’s writings that what is required to achieve this is to keep the serpent lodged in the crown for three days and nights. I once almost managed this, during a summer solstice, when I was particularly close to the goddess and the serpent was lodged in the crown for about three days and two nights. Ultimately, I feel short and it descended again, but during that time, it was like there was a sun next to me, I felt constant heat and light emanating, even during the night, when I was trying to sleep (but really couldn’t).

    2. How do you distinguish Kundalini energy and its manifestations from a merely physical sensation of the body? Someone has suggested to me before that because of the Kundalini understanding of maya, no distinction is drawn because ultimately it doesn't matter. This seems to check out with my understanding of the tradition, but I still have the nagging feeling that a physical experience would not have the qualitative, spiritual character that I am hoping to obtain.

    - Kundalini has many aspects, they can’t be divided from each other. There is a physical level, where there is noticeable neuroelectrical activity that takes place in the nervous system and the brain. There is an energetic aspect, which is closely linked to it. Then there is a spiritual and emotional aspect and finally a divine one, which is union with Brahman.

    3. When looking for a teacher, how is one supposed to find anything on Kundalini other than Kundalini Yoga? I am aware that the posters on this subreddit dislike Kundalini Yoga. Having seen the reasons why, this makes sense to me, although admittedly I have not spoken to any proponent of Kundalini Yoga that could offer a different perspective. Nevertheless, the real issue for me is that I have no ties to any "spiritual" circles and looking up "kundalini" on the internet will in 100% of the cases return results about Kundalini Yoga rather than non-Yogic version of the Kundalini tradition, because of the nature of modern search engines and the popularity of Kundalini Yoga. I am consequently at an impasse.

    - It’s tough, but Gopi Krishna’s writings remain the best source in my view. Arthur Avalon (Sir John Woodroffe) is also pretty good, if a bit sensationalist. Other than that, anything you can find on Tantra and Shaktism could be helpful.

    4. When still looking for a teacher, are there any recommendations on what preparations to undertake in order to make the best, fastest progress in the shortest possible time once a teacher is found? What preliminary work can an aspiring practitioner undertake alone in order to ensure a smooth, fast and easy journey?

    - I never had a teacher (couldn’t find one where I lived), so I’ll pass on this one. But, you don’t actually need one, in my view. Sure, it would be much easier that way, but they’re hard to come by, especially if you live in a country with zero reputable teachers or absolutely no tradition in Kundalini or spiritual awakening, like I do. You’d probably have to move countries in most cases, if I’m honest. I once a found a suitable teacher in rural Rajasthan, but he would have required me to leave everything behind and move to the forest with him and his disciples, to devote the rest of my life to Yoga and meditation. I was 23, living half a world away and it was simply not practical for me to leave everything behind at that point. I also don’t know how you would handle the visa situation if you wanted to spend a couple of decades meditating under a tree. Normally you can only stay in India for 6 months as a tourist, and no, Indian immigration won’t care that you’re seeking enlightenment.

    5. I have seen some posters here claim that they combine methods from multiple traditions for their own personal spiritual journey. I am drawn to this approach. I have marked out another method I wish to use later on, but it is hard to use without some sort of spiritual basis already achieved and it is difficult to reach that stage since today it's largely a "self-taught" method and it's very difficult to actually verify what consists in successful or unsuccessful practice. I have arrived at the conclusion that learning in the Kundalini tradition and then going with the flow of what I feel would be best, perhaps including the aforementioned method, should suffice to bring my spiritual journey to conclusion, but I am unsure if combining different methods is a good idea.

    - If you’re going your own way and forging your own path, which for most people outside South and Southeast Asia, will pretty much be a necessity, I don’t see how you could avoid doing that. You will just have to try what works for you as an individual and stick with it.

    6. I initially did not plan to ask this question and the next one, but I feel like I should. I know that in these matters, time is not something that can be calculated, but does it sound plausible for someone with a good teacher to have Kundalini pierce the Sahasrara in three months of serious and fully dedicated practice with some reasonable chance of success?

    - Unless you almost got there in a previous life (there would be unmistakable signs of that) and are just completing the process now, that would have to be a no. Years to decades is more realistic if you’re just starting out. Age also matters, Kundalini Awakening usually takes place around age 33 , with a couple of years either side the norm. I simply don’t buy stories of 50-year olds starting from scratch, having never meditated before, achieving full Kundalini awakening in a matter of months.

    7. If I recall correctly, I also saw a reputable poster on this subreddit suggest once that there are some techniques that exist which can instantly awaken the full extent of kundalini, presumably in a basically external manner, entirely administered through the teacher - although this second part is just my assumption. Is such a thing really possible? I suspect there would be some drawbacks to this, which I don't currently need to know - I just want to know if it's possible. Similarly, I believe that this is a separate matter from Shaktipaat, which as far as I understand it refers to awakening only the base or starting form of kundalini. I would welcome any corrections to possible misconceptions in that regard as well.

    - They can transfer their own Kundalini energy and cause an awakening yes, but it would be more like a glimpse of the real thing, to motivate their students. It would then be up to them to work on themselves to make their Kundalini awakening a self-sustaining process. Masters can also remove blockages that hinder the process.

    8. I have seen some posters refer to what they have called "physical kriyas", meaning physical movements that occur without their control and that can even throw them around a couple of metres into this or that direction. This sounds concerning to me, since phenomena of this type seem to entirely contradict the entire purpose of Kundalini - namely, growing and developing ever more advanced forms of self-understanding and self-control. A desire for self-control is one of my reasons for aiming at spiritual enlightenment and the possible existence of phenomena like this has unsettled me. Can anyone please explain this apparent contradiction?

    - Kriyas shouldn’t be violent like that if the student is prepared. They are usually quite gentle, more like spasms and convulsions as the energy is trying to escape and overexcited neurons keep firing. Convulsions can get quite intense if a major blockage In a chakra is being cleared, but it will move into a state of bliss and utter relief after that, not unike what happens during and after a sexual orgasm, only this is spiritual in nature.
    Coincidental I think I was browsing some of this information recently.
    “El revolucionario: te meteré la bota en el culo"

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    Quote Originally posted by BeastOfBologna View Post
    Coincidental I think I was browsing some of this information recently.
    In my experience, when it comes to this area, there are no coincidences, only synchronicities.

    Quote Originally posted by Wind View Post
    Interesting thread Chris, thanks for it. Especially this part stands out for me. I have an oversensitive nervous system to begin with and lately it has been out of whack due to trauma along with my brain, it is an energetic feeling for sure and I do know a thing or two about working with energy even if I'm no expert. It's really interesting to think how we are just electromagnetic beings and all is vibration. Understanding these principles are ultimately the keys to understanding consciousness and also how to heal human beings with their various ailments, be they mental or physical.
    Yes, Indeed, this is undoubtedly the future direction of travel when it comes to new methods of healing and medicine.

    BTW, I love those little synchronicities that occur, when Kundalini energy is involved. Like your time stamp and the post number:

    00:11 #300

    Those are of course highly relevant Kundalini numbers.

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    A few further points of clarification:

    “ According to the posts of some users here, it is good for a kundalini practitioner to centre himself around his heart chakra rather than the crown. Does this type of centring refer to a different concept than what you just mentioned, or would it be expected that a fully enlightened man centres himself around his crown chakra, always? If these are two different concepts (centring and kundalini location), you don't have to explain the difference to me - just saying that they are different would be sufficient.”

    I don’t think there is any consensus on this. It would probably depend on the individual, their life path and what they actually want to do with the Kundalini power. Some Yogis actually keep their power centred on the lower chakras and can thus manifest certain siddhis based on what they need. A typical example would be keeping the power centred around the second chakra (if I’m not mistaken) to cause the whole body to heat up, to the extent that they can melt snow around them. This is useful in cold climates or when they are exposed to the elements, meditating in the Himalayas. Different power centres can result in different siddhis, as described by Sir John Woodroffe in his books, although I would take this with a grain of salt, most seem to be little more than fairytales or are highly exaggerated. The heart plays a certain role, the crown yet another one. What I can tell you about the crown is that it is known as the mouth of heaven. It is called thus, because of its dual role, as the mouth that speaks to heaven and heavenly beings (Devas), but is also the mouth that drinks of the Soma / Amrita, which is known as Nectar or Ambrosia in our culture. In my view, if you want to partake of the Soma, you have to be centred on your crown and this is how you can also effectively interact with higher beings. That’s not to say that the heart centre should be neglected, far from it, but it all depends on how much of your time and energy you want to expend interacting with and helping others on this earthly plane as opposed to interacting with heavenly realms.

    “I think that I am most interested in what you would call the spiritual or divine aspect, assuming you are using the word spiritual in the sense that I think you are using it. The challenge for me is that I have no experience of spiritual or divine things, at least as far as I am aware, so I do not know if I would be able to distinguish such experiences from purely physical or emotional sensations. I don't think I have any experience with energies either, so I am not confident I could distinguish those either, but I don't know how important they actually are, so I am more concerned about the spiritual aspect.”

    Sure you do, you just haven’t realised it yet, because your attention is focussed on other, external phenomena. If you look inside, you will notice the subtle energies and spiritual manifestations that interact with your physical body all the time. Each chakra is responsible for a different type of energy. You get cold feet, you’re warm-hearted, you have a lump in your throat, you have a flash of realisation, etc… these are all encoded in our language, but people are too preoccupied with other things to notice these subtleties. Communion with the divine however is not an everyday occurrence, you need to work on raising your energies (in other words, your serpent), your vibrations, so that you are compatible with spiritual realms and can access those energies. Essentially, you have to tune yourself like a radio and find the right frequency for the station you’re looking for. Mantras help, but conscious, attentive and introspective meditation, where you observe and fine-tune the energetic and spiritual phenomena arising in your body, is the best way.

    “ Would this pose any problems in daily life? Say, for example, you are at work and a kriya suddenly throws you to the floor. It sounds like a trivial issue, but if kriyas are spontaneous and recurring it could be a serious problem, I think. Not to mention that depending on the environment, it might be physically dangeorus, too - for example, if you are working in construction or at an oil rig. Even when considering subtler movements, it would probably be a bit awkward, at least. “

    Not if you’re in control of your energies and regulate their flow. I only have kriyas when I meditate. They are little spasms and convulsions that indicate energy is being released from that particular area. Once the flow is unblocked, it becomes pleasantly smooth, even blissful. Little spasms might also happen when I am engaged in contemplating or reading spiritual material, whenever I go into a relaxed state or concentrate on spiritual matters. It does not interfere with my day job, but I am no longer undergoing spiritual awakening. Currently, I am in the state of Urdhvareta, which is about transforming and transubstantiating sexual energies and substances into a higher form, by turning them around at the root and allowing them to stream upwards into the brain. This does have some thankfully largely invisible effects during the day. Without wanting to get graphic, I may experience orgasmic sensations, along with the muscle contractions that would normally go with it, all throughout the day. I barely notice them now, but they certainly keep occurring. The more extreme kriyas you talk about generally occur in the beginning stages of Kundalini Awakening and then mostly become an issue if the person did not do sufficient preparatory work on themselves.

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    The Tree of Life

    I have long thought that the Tree of Life archetype in the Garden of Eden story was symbolic of the Human energetic system, whilst the Serpent was an obvious reference to Kundalini in some manner. Although my interpretation differs slightly, I nevertheless found this exposition by Paramahamsa Yogananda from “Autobiography of a Yogi” pretty instructive.

    "The Adam and Eve story is incomprehensible to me!" I observed with considerable heat
    one day in my early struggles with the allegory. "Why did God punish not only the guilty
    pair, but also the innocent unborn generations?"

    Master was more amused by my vehemence than my ignorance. "Genesis is deeply sym-
    bolic, and cannot be grasped by a literal interpretation," he explained. "Its 'tree of life' is
    the human body. The spinal cord is like an upturned tree, with man's hair as its roots, and
    afferent and efferent nerves as branches. The tree of the nervous system bears many
    enjoyable fruits, or sensations of sight, sound, smell, taste, and touch. In these, man may
    rightfully indulge; but he was forbidden the experience of sex, the 'apple' at the center of
    the bodily garden. ¹⁶-¹⁴

    "The 'serpent' represents the coiled-up spinal energy which stimulates the sex nerves.
    'Adam' is reason, and 'Eve' is feeling. When the emotion or Eve-consciousness in any
    human being is overpowered by the sex impulse, his reason or Adam also succumbs.
    "God created the human species by materializing the bodies of man and woman through
    the force of His will; He endowed the new species with the power to create children in a
    similar 'immaculate' or divine manner. ¹⁶-¹⁶ Because His manifestation in the individ-
    ualized soul had hitherto been limited to animals, instinct-bound and lacking the poten-
    tialities of full reason, God made the first human bodies, symbolically called Adam and
    Eve. To these, for advantageous upward evolution, He transferred the souls or divine
    essence of two animals. ¹⁶-¹⁷ In Adam or man, reason predominated; in Eve or woman,
    feeling was ascendant. Thus was expressed the duality or polarity which underlies the phe-
    nomenal worlds. Reason and feeling remain in a heaven of cooperative joy so long as the
    human mind is not tricked by the serpentine energy of animal propensities.

    "The human body was therefore not solely a result of evolution from beasts, but was pro-
    duced by an act of special creation by God. The animal forms were too crude to express
    full divinity; the human being was uniquely given a tremendous mental capacity-the 'thou-
    sand-petaled lotus' of the brain-as well as acutely awakened occult centers in the spine.
    "God, or the Divine Consciousness present within the first created pair, counseled them
    to enjoy all human sensibilities, but not to put their concentration on touch sensations.
    ¹⁶-¹⁸ These were banned in order to avoid the development of the sex organs, which would
    enmesh humanity in the inferior animal method of propagation. The warning not to revive subconsciously-present bestial memories was not heeded. Resuming the way of brute
    procreation, Adam and Eve fell from the state of heavenly joy natural to the original perfect
    man.

    "Knowledge of 'good and evil' refers to the cosmic dualistic compulsion. Falling under the
    sway of maya through misuse of his feeling and reason, or Eve-and Adam-consciousness,
    man relinquishes his right to enter the heavenly garden of divine self- sufficiency. ¹⁶-¹⁹ The
    personal responsibility of every human being is to restore his 'parents' or dual nature to a
    unified harmony or Eden."

    As Sri Yukteswar ended his discourse, I glanced with new respect at the pages of Genesis .
    "Dear Master," I said, "for the first time I feel a proper filial obligation toward Adam and
    Eve!"

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    That's a good book, I am just reading it for the first time.

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    Quote Originally posted by Wind View Post
    That's a good book, I am just reading it for the first time.
    Quite a coincidence then, I just started reading it again this week

    I first read it as a teenager, but have almost completely forgotten about it. Now that I'm re-reading it, I am struck by how many of my own spiritual experiences are described in detail and have apparently happened to many Yogis as well.

    What I'm having difficulty with is accepting the many fanciful stories of miracles performed by the various Yogis and Saints that came into Yogananda's life. I am currently putting it down to the usual Indian penchant for exaggeration or hyperbole.

    Sure, some Siddhis are real, but when I read stories about Sadhus beating up tigers with their bare hands, materialising objects out of thin air or levitating, my scepticism-bone immediately kicks in. Even if one were to suppose that some of these strange phenomena do indeed happen sometimes, all of them happening in the life of one person over a relatively short time seems somewhat fanciful.

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    Yeah I don't know always what to think about it, are such things really possible? I want to be open-minded, but...

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    Quote Originally posted by Wind View Post
    Yeah I don't know always what to think about it, are such things really possible? I want to be open-minded, but...
    ... not so open-minded that your brains fall out, right?
    = DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR =

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    Quote Originally posted by Aragorn View Post
    ... not so open-minded that your brains fall out, right?

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    Chris, would you have any advices on how to work with chakra blockages? In my case I'm pretty sure that at least my throat chakra has been an issue for me as I have had problems with the lymph nodes there too, I suppose it has had a lot to do with self-expression and introversion, shyness. There have been times when I have felt warm, strong energy rising up my spine during meditation, but it has always stopped at the throat area, so there must be some kind of a blockage there I suppose. I have not been an avid meditator.

    Also why I am able to see the colour purple when I focus on my third eye area?

    I see the color pulsating quite visibly. Is it a common thing to see it?


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    Hi Wind,

    Well, you might not like my answer, but in my case, when I had a blockage in my heart chakra, I prayed and a form of the Goddess helped me clear it.

    Can't say whether this would work for you, I imagine you are not particularly religious. The form of the Goddess responsible for the Throat Chakra is Saraswati. I don't think you have anything to lose if you try it, but of course it's your decision.

    If this isn't your thing, there are people who work with energy that might be able to help you, especially advanced reiki practitioners. There is even a form of Reiki, called Kundalini Reiki, which deals specifically with clearing blockages. I have never tried it, but maybe you should give it a go. If you can't find anyone where you live, you can find remote practitioners on fiverr who will help you out for a fee. RASA transmissions might also help raise your energy and clear the blockage, but again, I never tried it, I know others who swear by it.

    If you ask me, when such a blockage occurs, it is like any other disease, you need outside help, you can't be expected to work through it on your own, so I would seek out any help I can get.

    Good luck

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    Quote Originally posted by Chris View Post
    Hi Wind,

    Well, you might not like my answer, but in my case, when I had a blockage in my heart chakra, I prayed and a form of the Goddess helped me clear it.

    Can't say whether this would work for you, I imagine you are not particularly religious. The form of the Goddess responsible for the Throat Chakra is Saraswati. I don't think you have anything to lose if you try it, but of course it's your decision.
    I am certainly not religious, but to be honest I have in fact found Hinduism most appealing to me from all of the religions. I thought that Buddhism would be the thing for me and it partly has been besides Taoism, but there is something from the past which links me to Hinduism. I still wouldn't want to say I am this or that, I am just spiritual and that's all. Krisha, Christ... They were just avatars for the Christ-consciousness. I have no problem in praying to different deities such as Hindu ones, in fact I am pretty sure I have encountered some Hindu gods such as Ganesha and a few others. Due to my upbringing I most often resort to praying to Archangel Michael and such, because the likes of him are so powerful positive entities. I will consider praying to Goddesses too. I don't think it's about giving away my own power, it's just about asking for help and assistance. I am humble enough for that, I know that there are helpers in the unseen worlds just waiting for us to ask for their help. However, we must ask for that help in order to receive it. Prayers always seems to work somehow.

    If this isn't your thing, there are people who work with energy that might be able to help you, especially advanced reiki practitioners. There is even a form of Reiki, called Kundalini Reiki, which deals specifically with clearing blockages. I have never tried it, but maybe you should give it a go. If you can't find anyone where you live, you can find remote practitioners on fiverr who will help you out for a fee.
    Perhaps I could, in fact my father has had the first level of reiki training, but he's not a master. I learned that way about reiki myself too.

    If you ask me, when such a blockage occurs, it is like any other disease, you need outside help, you can't be expected to work through it on your own, so I would seek out any help I can get.

    Good luck
    That sure makes a lot of sense, thanks for it. Perhaps I may find someone who may assist me with this.
    Last edited by Wind, 14th November 2021 at 10:16.

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    Quote Originally posted by Wind View Post
    I am certainly not religious, but to be honest I have in fact found Hinduism most appealing to me from all of the religions. I thought that Buddhism would be the thing for me and it partly has been besides Taoism, but there is something from the past which links me to Hinduism. I still wouldn't want to say I am this or that, I am just spiritual and that's all. Krisha, Christ... They were just avatars for the Christ-consciousness. I have no problem in praying to different deities such as Hindu ones, in fact I am pretty sure I have encountered some Hindu gods such as Ganesha and a few others. Due to my upbringing I most often resort to praying to Archangel Michael and such, because the likes of him are so powerful positive entities. I will consider praying to Goddesses too. I don't think it's about giving away my own power, it's just about asking for help and assistance. I am humble enough for that, I know that there are helpers in the unseen worlds just waiting for us to ask for their help. However, we must ask for that help in order to receive it. Prayers always seems to work somehow.



    Perhaps I could, in fact my father has had the first level of reiki training, but he's not a master. I learned that way about reiki myself too.



    That sure makes a lot of sense, thanks for it. Perhaps I may find someone who may assist me with this.
    Here's a 'semi' serious question for both you and Chris. Does it make sense that a 'throat' chakra would be blocked but not your head, Wind. You are surely not a block head.
    “El revolucionario: te meteré la bota en el culo"

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  27. #314
    Super Moderator Wind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by BeastOfBologna View Post
    Here's a 'semi' serious question for both you and Chris. Does it make sense that a 'throat' chakra would be blocked but not your head, Wind. You are surely not a block head.
    Maybe Chris would know more, but I think it makes sense to have issues in certain chakras instead of others. For example, my third eye is very open and that is a necessary requirement for understanding and seeing spiritual matters properly. People with closed third eyes would probably be more atheistic and materialistic as they don't have all the eyes to "see" and that's not wrong either, it just "is", a state of consciousness which has separated itself from the spiritual dimension which in a way is ironic because everything is spirit. Crown chakra... Now about that I'm not so sure. It is connected more to the universe. I would assume that I have some issues with lower chakras besides the throat, maybe the second or first. Also I don't think chakras would usually ever be completely blocked, it's just that there are blockages which means that they energy is not flowing in the system as well as it could. Think of an electric circuit, it's not so different in humans either when it comes to flow of energy and that's what we all really are, intelligent energy. Every single thing you can see and feel is just "energy". We have just different names for that energy of course and some things we can't fully properly explain scientifically... Yet.

    That's the same thing with life force too, Ki, or Prana... Which is generated by the kidneys in the body although the universe has unlimited amounts of ki and prana. If it flows well in your body... All is well. If your emotions flow well in your body in harmony, you are "healthy". Blockages of emotions manifest as different kind of diseases, and one which is quite common and linked to repressed emotions and anger is the manifestation of cancer. Illnesses of the mind are a bit different, but they're still all linked to energy and consciousness. The human vessel is quite interesting and intricate, it's all linked. The nervous system, brain, endocrine system which is mainly linked to the chakras.

    We say that someone is "too much in their head". I would assume that is indeed the thing with us intellectual people, we spend a tremendous amount of energy in thinking and being in our minds. Thoughts are like a program running in the background all the time and the loop never stops in our hardware, the brain or human mind. It is however interesting to note that in meditation we are supposed to notice that we can observe the mind and the thoughts, thus knowing that we indeed are not the mind. We have a mind and a body, but there is an observer behind the mind too which is beyond all time and space, that's the part in us which never dies and it is the Self or soul. I know I have a very strong ego or monkey-mind, but I also know how to separate it from my higher self or higher mind. The problem with human beings is that their ego blockages usually don't allow room for the higher mind or self to speak or flow through them, but if and when it does then they truly are in alignment, because it is a higher state of being and it far surpasses the human intellect.
    Last edited by Wind, 15th November 2021 at 12:30.

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  29. #315
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    We say that someone is "too much in their head"
    Interesting. My husband gets way inside his head. It may be contemplation. It may be perseveration. It may be an emotional state which he cannot get out of.

    It can be a difficult read for me at times.

    I have no clue wether any of my chakras are blocked. But I do know that I would benefit from regular meditation (which I still haven't worked into my regular schedule).

    I do take time to be contemplative and to relax and enjoy nature.

    Jason Louv, whom I posted about and who wrote about John Dee, does his own kind of magical practice. He's spoken of the power and importance of meditation.

    It seems to me that the energies associated with magic are the same that a spiritual practitioner would use.

    But I don't know, really.

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