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Thread: Kundalini Awakening, Chakras, Enlightenment, Heaven and related matters.

  1. #211
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    Quote Originally posted by Chris View Post
    Quote Originally posted by Aragorn View Post
    The ophanim — also called "thrones" — in the Bible are also described as having four faces: of a man, a lion, a bull and an eagle. Some non-canon Judeo-Christian scriptures describe certain angels with a large face on their chest, and/or with their wings covered in a myriad eyes.
    This might have something to do with their higher dimensional nature. I quoted physicist Michio Kaku about this in another thread. I think they look this weird to us only from our three-dimensional perspective, which creates some sort of mirroring effect and a latency in time. It is a bit like a hall of mirrors, there may only be one person in there, but the observer sees a multitude of faces, hands, eyes, etc...

    Any being that moved in time differently than we did (we are helplessly moved forward in one temporal dimension, at a steady pace and are essentially trapped in this flow of time) would appear very strange to us. We might see them in a distorted way and as being present in many places at the same time. It is rather interesting that Hindu gods for instance are often depicted with many arms, sometimes thousands. It may just appear that way due to the time latency effect.
    Or just an optical distortion — yes, I agree. Some UFO eyewitnesses have already described UFOs speeding away and then apparently splitting up into three or more dots of light that shoot away in different directions.

    Any higher-dimensional object we perceive in our "3D + 1" awareness is always going to appear distorted beyond recognition.

    Quote Originally posted by Chris View Post
    Regarding the ophanim, there is a parallel in Hinduism. The creator God, Brahma, is shown with 4 heads, each facing in a different direction. This may also have a similar explanation.
    Yes, the thrones' four faces are also pointing in four different directions, representing the four corners of the Earth.
    = DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR =

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    I think it is worth quoting the entire chapter of the Bhagavad-Gita, which describes Krishna's universal form as Supreme Godhead and Lord of the Universe. I will highlight the parts that I think are particularly relevant to this discussion.



    Chapter 11, Verse 1
    Arjuna said: I have heard Your instruction on confidential spiritual matters which You have so kindly delivered unto me, and my illusion is now dispelled.

    Chapter 11, Verse 2
    O lotus-eyed one, I have heard from You in detail about the appearance and disappearance of every living entity, as realized through Your inexhaustible glories.

    Chapter 11, Verse 3
    O greatest of all personalities, O supreme form, though I see here before me Your actual position, I yet wish to see how You have entered into this cosmic manifestation. I want to see that form of Yours.

    Chapter 11, Verse 4
    If You think that I am able to behold Your cosmic form, O my Lord, O master of all mystic power, then kindly show me that universal self.

    Chapter 11, Verse 5
    The Blessed Lord said: My dear Arjuna, O son of Prtha, behold now My opulences, hundreds of thousands of varied divine forms, multicolored like the sea.

    Chapter 11, Verse 6
    O best of the Bharatas, see here the different manifestations of Adityas, Rudras, and all the demigods. Behold the many things which no one has ever seen or heard before.

    Chapter 11, Verse 7
    Whatever you wish to see can be seen all at once in this body. This universal form can show you all that you now desire, as well as whatever you may desire in the future. Everything is here completely.

    Chapter 11, Verse 8
    But you cannot see Me with your present eyes. Therefore I give to you divine eyes by which you can behold My mystic opulence.

    Chapter 11, Verse 9
    Sanjaya said: O King, speaking thus, the Supreme, the Lord of all mystic power, the Personality of Godhead, displayed His universal form to Arjuna.

    Chapter 11, Verse 10-11
    Arjuna saw in that universal form unlimited mouths and unlimited eyes. It was all wondrous. The form was decorated with divine, dazzling ornaments and arrayed in many garbs. He was garlanded gloriously, and there were many scents smeared over His body. All was magnificent, all-expanding, unlimited. This was seen by Arjuna.

    Chapter 11, Verse 12
    If hundreds of thousands of suns rose up at once into the sky, they might resemble the effulgence of the Supreme Person in that universal form.

    Chapter 11, Verse 13
    At that time Arjuna could see in the universal form of the Lord the unlimited expansions of the universe situated in one place although divided into many, many thousands.

    Chapter 11, Verse 14
    Then, bewildered and astonished, his hair standing on end, Arjuna began to pray with folded hands, offering obeisances to the Supreme Lord.

    Chapter 11, Verse 15
    Arjuna said: My dear Lord Krsna, I see assembled together in Your body all the demigods and various other living entities. I see Brahma sitting on the lotus flower as well as Lord Siva and many sages and divine serpents.

    Chapter 11, Verse 16
    O Lord of the universe, I see in Your universal body many, many forms-bellies, mouths, eyes-expanded without limit. There is no end, there is no beginning, and there is no middle to all this.

    Chapter 11, Verse 17
    Your form, adorned with various crowns, clubs and discs, is difficult to see because of its glaring effulgence, which is fiery and immeasurable like the sun.

    Chapter 11, Verse 18
    You are the supreme primal objective; You are the best in all the universes; You are inexhaustible, and You are the oldest; You are the maintainer of religion, the eternal Personality of Godhead.

    Chapter 11, Verse 19
    You are the origin without beginning, middle or end. You have numberless arms, and the sun and moon are among Your great unlimited eyes. By Your own radiance You are heating this entire universe.

    Chapter 11, Verse 20
    Although You are one, You are spread throughout the sky and the planets and all space between. O great one, as I behold this terrible form, I see that all the planetary systems are perplexed.

    Chapter 11, Verse 21
    All the demigods are surrendering and entering into You. They are very much afraid, and with folded hands they are singing the Vedic hymns.

    Chapter 11, Verse 22
    The different manifestations of Lord Siva, the Adityas, the Vasus, the Sadhyas, the Visvadevas, the two Asvins, the Maruts, the forefathers and the Gandharvas, the Yaksas, Asuras, and all perfected demigods are beholding You in wonder.

    Chapter 11, Verse 23
    O mighty-armed one, all the planets with their demigods are disturbed at seeing Your many faces, eyes, arms, bellies and legs and Your terrible teeth, and as they are disturbed, so am I.

    Chapter 11, Verse 24
    O all-pervading Visnu, I can no longer maintain my equilibrium. Seeing Your radiant colors fill the skies and beholding Your eyes and mouths, I am afraid.

    Chapter 11, Verse 25
    O Lord of lords, O refuge of the worlds, please be gracious to me. I cannot keep my balance seeing thus Your blazing deathlike faces and awful teeth. In all directions I am bewildered.

    Chapter 11, Verse 26-27
    All the sons of Dhrtarastra along with their allied kings, and Bhisma, Drona and Karna, and all our soldiers are rushing into Your mouths, their heads smashed by Your fearful teeth. I see that some are being crushed between Your teeth as well.

    Chapter 11, Verse 28
    As the rivers flow into the sea, so all these great warriors enter Your blazing mouths and perish.

    Chapter 11, Verse 29
    I see all people rushing with full speed into Your mouths as moths dash into a blazing fire.

    Chapter 11, Verse 30
    O Visnu, I see You devouring all people in Your flaming mouths and covering the universe with Your immeasurable rays. Scorching the worlds, You are manifest.

    Chapter 11, Verse 31
    O Lord of lords, so fierce of form, please tell me who You are. I offer my obeisances unto You; please be gracious to me. I do not know what Your mission is, and I desire to hear of it.

    Chapter 11, Verse 32
    The Blessed Lord said: Time I am, destroyer of the worlds, and I have come to engage all people. With the exception of you [the Pandavas], all the soldiers here on both sides will be slain.

    Chapter 11, Verse 33
    Therefore get up and prepare to fight. After conquering your enemies you will enjoy a flourishing kingdom. They are already put to death by My arrangement, and you, O Savyasacin, can be but an instrument in the fight.

    Chapter 11, Verse 34
    The Blessed Lord said: All the great warriors-Drona, Bhisma, Jayadratha, Karna-are already destroyed. Simply fight, and you will vanquish your enemies.

    Chapter 11, Verse 35
    Sanjaya said to Dhrtarastra: O King, after hearing these words from the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Arjuna trembled, fearfully offered obeisances with folded hands and began, falteringly, to speak as follows:

    Chapter 11, Verse 36
    O Hrsikesa, the world becomes joyful upon hearing Your name and thus everyone becomes attached to You. Although the perfected beings offer You their respectful homage, the demons are afraid, and they flee here and there. All this is rightly done.

    Chapter 11, Verse 37
    O great one, who stands above even Brahma, You are the original master. Why should they not offer their homage up to You, O limitless one? O refuge of the universe, You are the invincible source, the cause of all causes, transcendental to this material manifestation.

    Chapter 11, Verse 38
    You are the original Personality, the Godhead. You are the only sanctuary of this manifested cosmic world. You know everything, and You are all that is knowable. You are above the material modes. O limitless form! This whole cosmic manifestation is pervaded by You!

    Chapter 11, Verse 39
    You are air, fire, water, and You are the moon! You are the supreme controller and the grandfather. Thus I offer my respectful obeisances unto You a thousand times, and again and yet again!

    Chapter 11, Verse 40
    Obeisances from the front, from behind and from all sides! O unbounded power, You are the master of limitless, might! You are all-pervading, and thus You are everything!

    Chapter 11, Verse 41-42
    I have in the past addressed You as O Krsna, O Yadava, O my friend, without knowing Your glories. Please forgive whatever I may have done in madness or in love. I have dishonored You many times while relaxing or while lying on the same bed or eating together, sometimes alone and sometimes in front of many friends. Please excuse me for all my offenses.

    Chapter 11, Verse 43
    You are the father of this complete cosmic manifestation, the worshipable chief, the spiritual master. No one is equal to You, nor can anyone be one with You. Within the three worlds, You are immeasurable.

    Chapter 11, Verse 44
    You are the Supreme Lord, to be worshiped by every living being. Thus I fall down to offer You my respects and ask Your mercy. Please tolerate the wrongs that I may have done to You and bear with me as a father with his son, or a friend with his friend, or a lover with his beloved.

    Chapter 11, Verse 45
    After seeing this universal form, which I have never seen before, I am gladdened, but at the same time my mind is disturbed with fear. Therefore please bestow Your grace upon me and reveal again Your form as the Personality of Godhead, O Lord of lords, O abode of the universe.

    Chapter 11, Verse 46
    O universal Lord, I wish to see You in Your four-armed form, with helmeted head and with club, wheel, conch and lotus flower in Your hands. I long to see You in that form.

    Chapter 11, Verse 47
    The Blessed Lord said: My dear Arjuna, happily do I show you this universal form within the material world by My internal potency. No one before you has ever seen this unlimited and glaringly effulgent form.

    Chapter 11, Verse 48
    O best of the Kuru warriors, no one before you has ever seen this universal form of Mine, for neither by studying the Vedas, nor by performing sacrifices, nor by charities or similar activities can this form be seen. Only you have seen this.

    Chapter 11, Verse 49
    Your mind has been perturbed upon seeing this horrible feature of Mine. Now let it be finished. My devotee, be free from all disturbance. With a peaceful mind you can now see the form you desire.

    Chapter 11, Verse 50
    Sanjaya said to Dhrtarastra: The Supreme Personality of Godhead, Krsna, while speaking thus to Arjuna, displayed His real four-armed form, and at last He showed him His two-armed form, thus encouraging the fearful Arjuna.

    Chapter 11, Verse 51
    When Arjuna thus saw Krsna in His original form, he said: Seeing this humanlike form, so very beautiful, my mind is now pacified, and I am restored to my original nature.

    Chapter 11, Verse 52
    The Blessed Lord said: My dear Arjuna, the form which you are now seeing is very difficult to behold. Even the demigods are ever seeking the opportunity to see this form which is so dear.

    Chapter 11, Verse 53
    The form which you are seeing with your transcendental eyes cannot be understood simply by studying the Vedas, nor by undergoing serious penances, nor by charity, nor by worship. It is not by these means that one can see Me as I am.

    Chapter 11, Verse 54
    My dear Arjuna, only by undivided devotional service can I be understood as I am, standing before you, and can thus be seen directly. Only in this way can you enter into the mysteries of My understanding.

    Chapter 11, Verse 55
    My dear Arjuna, one who is engaged in My pure devotional service, free from the contaminations of previous activities and from mental speculation, who is friendly to every living entity, certainly comes to Me.

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    I'm reading the black book of the Yezidis now, their chief scripture, and I must say, I quite like their version of the Garden of Eden story. It would appear that Gluten intolerance and its unpleasant symptoms have been with us from the very beginning

    I can also see now why Moslems would equate Melek Taus with the Biblical serpent:

    Then he commanded Gabriel to escort Adam into Paradise, and to tell him that he could eat from all the trees but not of wheat. Here Adam remained for a hundred years. Thereupon, Melek Taus asked God how Adam could multiply and have descendants if he were forbidden to eat of the grain. God answered, “I have put the whole matter into thy hands.” Thereupon Melek Taus visited Adam and said “Have you eaten of the grain?” He answered, “No, God forbade me.” Melek Taus replied and said, “Eat of the grain and all shall go better with thee.” Then Adam ate of the grain and immediately his belly was inflated. But Melek Taus drove him out of the garden, and leaving him, ascended into heaven. Now Adam was troubled because his belly was inflated, for he had no outlet. God therefore sent a bird to him which pecked at his anus and made an outlet, and Adam was relieved.


    http://www.yeziditruth.org/yezidi_scriptures

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    Senior Member NotAPretender's Avatar
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    This is just a thought:

    The Yin/Yang principle permeates creation as does consciousness. It is born in the 'other', 'elsewhere' which by definition would be extra-dimensional to 3-D'ers. Science has theorized that time is not a separate dimension but rather a property of existence that is interwoven among all the physical dimensions. Consciousness has a very similar spectra (spectral) nature and we must have all these varying chararcteristics to have the others. The physical other is characterized by vacuum and it is there that the ultimate games of life and death are played and we must have the vacuum to have the fullness of creation, a balance, a Yin/Yang dynamic. A clearer analogy of vacuum is not to say it is out there but is actually everywhere, permeating every space of apparent solidity. So, in effect, to sense consciousness all around is a very real experiential event.

    Thus perhaps it is the explanation for what one 'feels' as a super-awareness that will not be articulated because it is so 'mysterious'. It is real and perhaps not so mysterious when one considers that life and death decisions are constantly emerging throughout the cosmos and we are inextricably connected to it.
    "We are one thought away from changing the world!"

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    Quote Originally posted by NotAPretender View Post
    This is just a thought:

    The Yin/Yang principle permeates creation as does consciousness. It is born in the 'other', 'elsewhere' which by definition would be extra-dimensional to 3-D'ers. Science has theorized that time is not a separate dimension but rather a property of existence that is interwoven among all the physical dimensions. Consciousness has a very similar spectra (spectral) nature and we must have all these varying chararcteristics to have the others. The physical other is characterized by vacuum and it is there that the ultimate games of life and death are played and we must have the vacuum to have the fullness of creation, a balance, a Yin/Yang dynamic. A clearer analogy of vacuum is not to say it is out there but is actually everywhere, permeating every space of apparent solidity. So, in effect, to sense consciousness all around is a very real experiential event.

    Thus perhaps it is the explanation for what one 'feels' as a super-awareness that will not be articulated because it is so 'mysterious'. It is real and perhaps not so mysterious when one considers that life and death decisions are constantly emerging throughout the cosmos and we are inextricably connected to it.
    I don't have a full understanding of either the physical or the metaphysical universe, but I am trying to paraphrase and interpret what the latest science has to say on the matter, to make it more digestible.

    You are probably right about time not being an additional dimension, I suspect it could be a natural consequence of movement and change. Since the universe moves and changes all the time, it must necessarily have a time aspect or dimension (in the abstract sense of the word) to it.

    Vacuum however isn't empty space, it is actually teeming with life, energy and movement, a sort of barely perceptible fizz, where articles pop in and out of existence, or at least have the probability to do so on the Quantum level. It is informally called the Quantum Soup I believe.

    This would indicate that space itself is a fabric, even when it's seemingly empty, it has a structure holding it in place. That is in fact the very consequence of dimensionality, if there are dimensions, there must be a structure built out of them. This is how higher and hidden spatial dimensions come into play, they are structures in vacuum that are simply constructed differently in a geometrical sense. We can't access them, because we don't understand or even perceive the geometry of these higher planes, though it seems they can be expressed mathematically.

    I do not yet know how consciousness relates to this. My guess would be that it is this ancient, inscrutable intelligence that came up with the basic geometry of the fabric of the universe, in all of its dimensions. It may have started with one single geometrical pattern (say, the flower of life or a tetrahedron), which then blossomed into the universe, much like a flower would. Perhaps one thought created a seed and that is how we all came to be and everything around us. It is fascinating to ponder that possibility. By the way, if this were true, it would put quite a bit of wind into the sail of creationism.

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    Administrator Aragorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by NotAPretender View Post
    The Yin/Yang principle permeates creation as does consciousness. It is born in the 'other', 'elsewhere' which by definition would be extra-dimensional to 3-D'ers.
    The place where everything is "born" is indeed extra-dimensional, because there are no dimensions there. It is the zero-dimensional singularity itself, which we here in 3D space have defined as having come to an end in the Big Bang — which, by the way, wasn't a "bang" at all, but just an emerging out of nothingness of the perceivable universe, with all of its properties.

    The Yin/Yang duality encompasses all polarities in creation, and is itself one-dimensional — it is a line.

    Quote Originally posted by NotAPretender View Post
    Science has theorized that time is not a separate dimension but rather a property of existence that is interwoven among all the physical dimensions.
    That was the old interpretation, before Albert Einstein devised his Theory of Relativity — now referred to as Special Relativity, because at that point he hadn't incorporated gravity into his theory yet. Special Relativity plus gravity then became General Relativity.

    Either way, it has been empirically proven that time is, very much, a dimension in and of itself. Even quantum physics and string theory have accepted that.

    Quote Originally posted by NotAPretender View Post
    Consciousness has a very similar spectra (spectral) nature and we must have all these varying chararcteristics to have the others. The physical other is characterized by vacuum and it is there that the ultimate games of life and death are played and we must have the vacuum to have the fullness of creation, a balance, a Yin/Yang dynamic.
    I'm afraid you've lost me at your description of the physical other being characterized by vacuum. I have no idea what you mean by that, but in my experience, there is no vacuum anywhere. There are only coordinates — if we can carefully refer to them, given that there are no absolute coordinates anywhere in the universe — which appear empty from our own vantage, but that doesn't mean that they would be.

    Insofar as the Other is concerned, it is definitely not a vacuum, but a projection of the potential of the singularity which acts as the Non-Self — if Self is the thesis, then the Other is the antithesis, and then the interaction between Self and Other is the synthesis.





    Quote Originally posted by Chris View Post
    Quote Originally posted by NotAPretender View Post
    Science has theorized that time is not a separate dimension but rather a property of existence that is interwoven among all the physical dimensions.
    You are probably right about time not being an additional dimension, I suspect it could be a natural consequence of movement and change. Since the universe moves and changes all the time, it must necessarily have a time aspect or dimension (in the abstract sense of the word) to it.
    And that is exactly why time is a dimension, my friend — not to mention that it has been empirically proven so. If you look at it more abstractly and linearly, then everything is made up of events, connected by processes. So you are moving from event A to event B along a straight line, and the motion from A to B is the process.

    If you plot that out on a piece of paper, then this line is always spatial, but the same is true for time — it is the same type of graphic. And once you pass beyond the event horizon of a black hole, all dimensions collapse into zero again, including time.

    Quote Originally posted by Chris View Post
    Vacuum however isn't empty space, it is actually teeming with life, energy and movement, a sort of barely perceptible fizz, where articles pop in and out of existence, or at least have the probability to do so on the Quantum level. It is informally called the Quantum Soup I believe.
    Correct. What we humans perceive as the vacuum of space is in fact the very same thing as where zero-point energy is to be found. There is more energy in the (perceived) vacuum of space than in the light from all of the stars in the universe combined.

    Quote Originally posted by Chris View Post
    This would indicate that space itself is a fabric, even when it's seemingly empty, it has a structure holding it in place. That is in fact the very consequence of dimensionality, if there are dimensions, there must be a structure built out of them.
    That would be putting the horse in front of the cart. The structure is what defines the dimensions, not the other way around.

    Quote Originally posted by Chris View Post
    This is how higher and hidden spatial dimensions come into play, they are structures in vacuum that are simply constructed differently in a geometrical sense. We can't access them, because we don't understand or even perceive the geometry of these higher planes, though it seems they can be expressed mathematically.
    Correct again.

    Quote Originally posted by Chris View Post
    I do not yet know how consciousness relates to this. My guess would be that it is this ancient, inscrutable intelligence that came up with the basic geometry of the fabric of the universe, in all of its dimensions. It may have started with one single geometrical pattern (say, the flower of life or a tetrahedron), which then blossomed into the universe, much like a flower would. Perhaps one thought created a seed and that is how we all came to be and everything around us. It is fascinating to ponder that possibility.
    No, it all started pretty much in a binary fashion, through the Yin/Yang principle. This then divided the Creator Consciousness into multiple linear aspects, and from there on, the other dimensions were born. Consciousness is everything, and everything is consciousness. Nothing exists outside of the Creator Consciousness, and everything exists within it.

    But what's important to note is that consciousness is one thing, and that focus is another. At the level of the Creator Consciousness, you understand things that we down here in 3D — actually, 4D, given that time is a dimension as well — do not understand, and aren't even aware of. It's like standing at the top of a skyscraper. You have an enormously vast overview of an entire area, virtually only limited in your line of sight by the curvature of the Earth. But the higher up you are, the less you are aware of what is happening down on the ground beneath you.

    Or let's take another analogy. We know that viruses and bacteria exist, but we cannot see them. In order to see them, and to know how they behave, we have to look at them through a microscope. And then at that scale, you can see just about everything these microorganisms do. But what you cannot see through that microscope are your surroundings. You cannot see your colleagues. You cannot even see the lab coat you're wearing.

    This focus of consciousness is yet another Yin/Yang manifestation, or a one-dimensional concept, if you will. And as such, whichever focus you choose — i.e. being up close so as to see it all in detail, or being up high and far away so as to see the bigger picture — is itself also only a thesis. And then the other focuses — as the choices that you didn't make — are its antithesis.

    Quote Originally posted by Chris View Post
    By the way, if this were true, it would put quite a bit of wind into the sail of creationism.
    I think you mean the Intelligent Design Hypothesis, my friend. Creationism is a very narrow, US American-originated and strictly Christian-fundamentalist belief system, which interprets the Book of Genesis — and, indeed, everything else in the Bible — in the very literal sense, as events that have physically taken place as literally described in the Bible. For instance, Creationists believe that Earth was created 6'000 years ago, and that Adam and Eve lived in the Garden of Eden, together with the dinosaurs.

    But yes, Intelligent Design is factual, despite its rejection by materialist scientists. But then again, materialism is also a religion in and of itself.
    = DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR =

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    Senior Member NotAPretender's Avatar
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    "I'm afraid you've lost me at your description of the physical other being characterized by vacuum. I have no idea what you mean by that, but in my experience, there is no vacuum anywhere. There are only coordinates — if we can carefully refer to them, given that there are no absolute coordinates anywhere in the universe — which appear empty from our own vantage, but that doesn't mean that they would be.

    Insofar as the Other is concerned, it is definitely not a vacuum, but a projection of the potential of the singularity which acts as the Non-Self — if Self is the thesis, then the Other is the antithesis, and then the interaction between Self and Other is the synthesis."


    Science calls it the 'elsewhere' where all our rules are broken with abandon.

    You might have noticed that I mentioned 'characterized' as vacuum...vacuum is not really empty as we all know, it in actuality whence from all things come to create the havoc we know as life... It is a critically important filler. i.e. structure.

    Perhaps a bad analogy to use time to explain consciousness...Given that, it emerges that Consciousness is an 'apparent' separate 'thing' which we all obviously are experiencing...no doubt real. But the notion as consciousness as a separate thing opens a whole 'nuther can of worms.

    "And that is exactly why time is a dimension, my friend — not to mention that it has been empirically proven so. If you look at it more abstractly and linearly, then everything is made up of events, connected by processes. So you are moving from event A to event B along a straight line, and the motion from A to B is the process. "

    In the elsewhere time is far from linear...it literally zigs and zags...constantly moving backward and forward in time. Even bypassing process at the boundaries of reality...events happen in zero time and zero space and we should be thankful that the ultimate consciousness planned it that way. In the end it balances because in the fabric of creation all the mathematical calculations 'cancel' out the zigzag and 'creates' a linear experience for us.

    "Insofar as the Other is concerned, it is definitely not a vacuum, but a projection of the potential of the singularity which acts as the Non-Self — if Self is the thesis, then the Other is the antithesis, and then the interaction between Self and Other is the synthesis. "

    I like that, it is consciousness but not self, it is the universal consciousness. Bottom line, it seems to me from a metaphysical perspective it explains everything... ala, A Brief History of Everything by Ken Wilber.
    Last edited by NotAPretender, 13th October 2018 at 14:16.
    "We are one thought away from changing the world!"

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    Quote Originally posted by Aragorn View Post
    Or let's take another analogy. We know that viruses and bacteria exist, but we cannot see them. In order to see them, and to know how they behave, we have to look at them through a microscope. And then at that scale, you can see just about everything these microorganisms do. But what you cannot see through that microscope are your surroundings. You cannot see your colleagues. You cannot even see the lab coat you're wearing.

    But yes, Intelligent Design is factual, despite its rejection by materialist scientists. But then again, materialism is also a religion in and of itself.
    You know what is interesting about the dogmatic materialist scientific worldview? They admit that we cannot perceive all the unseen dimension and realms around us so we have had to invent tools in order to perceive them. We cannot perceive electrons or atoms and yet everything consists of them. Even with all our tools we are still just seeing a very limited amount of all that there is so how can we assume that there would be nothing if we cannot see it? If we cannot for example see things like spirits and UFO's, it doesn't mean that they wouldn't be here with us, it's just that we lack the ability to often perceive them.

    It is difficult to produce physical evidence for such things, but that doesn't make them non-existent. Scientific inquiry should always be about curiously examining even strange phenomena and not dismissing them just because we don't have hard "evidence". Yet there's tons of material to prove to the open-minded people that many amazing things have happened and are still happening around us all the time. God exists and we're all God, but can we prove that or do we have to? Maybe it's faith, but in my case I don't just believe in the Ultimate Consciousness, I know that it exists and has created all that there is. I'm not saying that in an arrogant manner, it just is the truth.

    "Science cannot solve the ultimate mystery of nature. And that is because, in the last analysis, we ourselves are a part of the mystery that we are trying to solve."

    “I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness. We cannot get behind consciousness. Everything that we talk about, everything that we regard as existing, postulates consciousness.”

    "As a man who has devoted his whole life to the most clearheaded science, to the study of matter, I can tell you as a result of my research about the atoms this much: There is no matter as such! All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force which brings the particles of an atom to vibration and holds this most minute solar system of the atom together. . . . We must assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and intelligent Mind. This Mind is the matrix of all matter."


    ~ Max Planck

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    By the way, if this were true, it would put quite a bit of wind into the sail of creationism.
    In America, creationism is Christianity. Period.

    The Bible. Six thousand years. Jesus coming with his staff to beat up the unbelievers... It's very narrowly defined.


    As I now see Aragorn said. The distinction of the term Intelligent Design is good, although in America people will try to say it's a synonym of Creationism.
    Last edited by Dreamtimer, Yesterday at 12:30.

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    Quote Originally posted by NotAPretender View Post
    In the elsewhere time is far from linear...it literally zigs and zags...constantly moving backward and forward in time. Even bypassing process at the boundaries of reality...events happen in zero time and zero space and we should be thankful that the ultimate consciousness planned it that way. In the end it balances because in the fabric of creation all the mathematical calculations 'cancel' out the zigzag and 'creates' a linear experience for us.
    I think it is worth exploring the concept of higher-dimensional time a bit further.

    I can't decide if separating spatial and temporal dimensions into separate categories makes any sense at all, but to simplify things, I shall now do so.

    The way I imagine multi-dimensional time is by using three temporal dimensions, instead of the usual one. This way we can imagine these three temporal dimensions as similar to our three-dimensional space here on earth. This 3D geometrical structure eliminates the need for linearity in time. Whereas 1D time flows like a river, trapping us in this flow, 3D time presents all sort of exciting possibilities. I imagine that any being existing in 3D time, will have no trouble moving along any dimension of it, without hindrance, in any direction he might wish.

    One can then imagine such an entity being connected to his own multiple selves, that exist in different points in time. The need for linearity can be circumvented by imagining this entity as a central point, almost like a sun, from which numerous tendrils or strings emanate in all directions. This way, by existing in 3D time, the entity in question can connect to and learn from all of his own selves simultaneously and pass information along from even multiple versions of the same self, existing in parallel timelines or universes. This is in fact I believe what the higher Self is and it guides us through things like premonition, intuition, dreams, visions, etc...

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    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    In America, creationism is Christianity. Period.

    The Bible. Six thousand years. Jesus coming with his staff to beat up the unbelievers... It's very narrowly defined.


    As I now see Aragorn said. The distinction of the term Intelligent Design is good, although in America people will try to say it's a synonym of Creationism.
    I don't know if I'm satisfied with the term "Intelligent Design". It somehow doesn't seem to describe what is actually going on here. I realise that Creationism as a word is tainted, but it is still the best one we have. It is simply the belief or the view that the world is a creation and not a self-emergent mechanism or "thing". Designing a universe is not the same as creating one. I could probably design a universe, but I sure as hell couldn't create one. To me even serious scientists who propose that the universe is a simulation are essentially creationists, because they believe the universe to be an artificial creation and not self-emergent. I am in that latter camp as well.

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    Quote Originally posted by Wind View Post
    You know what is interesting about the dogmatic materialist scientific worldview? They admit that we cannot perceive all the unseen dimension and realms around us so we have had to invent tools in order to perceive them. We cannot perceive electrons or atoms and yet everything consists of them. Even with all our tools we are still just seeing a very limited amount of all that there is so how can we assume that there would be nothing if we cannot see it? If we cannot for example see things like spirits and UFO's, it doesn't mean that they wouldn't be here with us, it's just that we lack the ability to often perceive them.

    It is difficult to produce physical evidence for such things, but that doesn't make them non-existent. Scientific inquiry should always be about curiously examining even strange phenomena and not dismissing them just because we don't have hard "evidence". Yet there's tons of material to prove to the open-minded people that many amazing things have happened and are still happening around us all the time. God exists and we're all God, but can we prove that or do we have to? Maybe it's faith, but in my case I don't just believe in the Ultimate Consciousness, I know that it exists and has created all that there is. I'm not saying that in an arrogant manner, it just is the truth.

    "Science cannot solve the ultimate mystery of nature. And that is because, in the last analysis, we ourselves are a part of the mystery that we are trying to solve."

    “I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness. We cannot get behind consciousness. Everything that we talk about, everything that we regard as existing, postulates consciousness.”

    "As a man who has devoted his whole life to the most clearheaded science, to the study of matter, I can tell you as a result of my research about the atoms this much: There is no matter as such! All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force which brings the particles of an atom to vibration and holds this most minute solar system of the atom together. . . . We must assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and intelligent Mind. This Mind is the matrix of all matter."


    ~ Max Planck
    This would be a fascinating discussion in itself, deserving its own thread. I've read a couple of books from Rupert Sheldrake, a heretic scientist who has been excommunicated by the Vatican, sorry, I meant the "scientific community" for his views. There is clear scientific evidence for instance, that premonition, telepathy and the sense of being stared at are all real phenomena, yet scientists just ignore them.

    On the other hand all the basic pillars of materialistic science are rather shaky when you take a closer look at them, which he did in "The Science Delusion", devoting a separate chapter to a particular scientific orthodoxy (such as the idea that the speed of light is a universal constant that never changes - not actually true if you look at the evidence) and taking each one apart very consistently. He also has a go at molecular biology, which utterly fails to explain how living organisms actually form into complex shapes, since this information is not present in DNA. His own theory of morphogenetic fields explains this a lot better.

    These are just a few examples, but there are so many areas of research that conventional science (at least in the mainstream, public projects) just refuses to explore, that it is hard to base your own view of the world on such a dogmatic and rigid view of the world. It really is very similar to the position of the Roman Church in the middle ages in that sense.

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    Quote Originally posted by Chris View Post
    [...] (such as the idea that the speed of light is a universal constant that never changes - not actually true if you look at the evidence) [...]
    Um, yes, that is very, very true. The speed of light in a vacuum — denoted by the symbol c — is always the same in every direction and for every observer, and this has been empirically proven. However, light can be slowed down when passing through a medium, and to such an extent even that other particles such as electrons might travel faster through said medium than light itself, albeit that these particles themselves, too, will then be traveling slower than c.

    The phenomenon of non-light particles passing faster through a medium than light itself (in said medium) is what gives rise to Cherenkov radiation, the bluish light visible in nuclear reactors.
    = DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR =

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    Quote Originally posted by Aragorn View Post
    Um, yes, that is very, very true. The speed of light in a vacuum — denoted by the symbol c — is always the same in every direction and for every observer, and this has been empirically proven. However, light can be slowed down when passing through a medium, and to such an extent even that other particles such as electrons might travel faster through said medium than light itself, albeit that these particles themselves, too, will then be traveling slower than c.

    The phenomenon of non-light particles passing faster through a medium than light itself (in said medium) is what gives rise to Cherenkov radiation, the bluish light visible in nuclear reactors.
    That's exactly the thing, Sheldrake found (and this has actually been confirmed by the official in charge), that the speed of light has been changing, not to a huge, but still quite a significant degree since the 1960s. Eventually the scientific community just decided to set the exact value in stone and ignore the phenomenon. I read this book (the Science Delusion) half a decade ago, so I don't remember the exact details, but you can check out his banned Ted talk for a summary, I think it's really interesting:


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    Quote Originally posted by Chris View Post
    This would be a fascinating discussion in itself, deserving its own thread. I've read a couple of books from Rupert Sheldrake, a heretic scientist who has been excommunicated by the Vatican, sorry, I meant the "scientific community" for his views. There is clear scientific evidence for instance, that premonition, telepathy and the sense of being stared at are all real phenomena, yet scientists just ignore them.

    On the other hand all the basic pillars of materialistic science are rather shaky when you take a closer look at them, which he did in "The Science Delusion", devoting a separate chapter to a particular scientific orthodoxy (such as the idea that the speed of light is a universal constant that never changes - not actually true if you look at the evidence) and taking each one apart very consistently. He also has a go at molecular biology, which utterly fails to explain how living organisms actually form into complex shapes, since this information is not present in DNA. His own theory of morphogenetic fields explains this a lot better.

    These are just a few examples, but there are so many areas of research that conventional science (at least in the mainstream, public projects) just refuses to explore, that it is hard to base your own view of the world on such a dogmatic and rigid view of the world. It really is very similar to the position of the Roman Church in the middle ages in that sense.
    I really like Sheldrake, poor chap has just been ridiculed in the scientific circles. Then again what would they know, he doesn't mind anyways as he's a maverick.


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