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Thread: 43% of Americans in poverty?

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    43% of Americans in poverty?

    I found this a little hard to believe, but then I’m pretty well off and live in places where I don’t see this.

    https://stillnessinthestorm.com/2018...lapse-is-here/

    So I’m throwing this out there to see how folks in the forum see this situation.
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    Member on Sabbatical Morocco modwiz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Dumpster Diver View Post
    I found this a little hard to believe, but then I’m pretty well off and live in places where I don’t see this.

    https://stillnessinthestorm.com/2018...lapse-is-here/

    So I’m throwing this out there to see how folks in the forum see this situation.

    Sounds about right to me as I am one of that number and surrounded by many barely existing, in a financially defined sense of existing. I do not like defining poverty in a monetized way. Many Chinese peasants lived in such a definition of poverty but, the quality of their lives, by a metric of happiness/content, is not part of the equation. I know people who are far from poverty and have less content than myself. I would not define myself as living in poverty in a real sense, only by the definition of the article and its monetized world view.
    Last edited by modwiz, 5th June 2018 at 01:23.
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    http://www.demos.org/sites/default/f..._ends_meet.pdf
    https://www.creditcards.com/credit-c...stics-1276.php
    https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine...-shame/476415/

    Noting it is an American centric story again, but given we get told stuff here that is not our news, the topic has for some reason found its way in the past, to our shores. Operative word, in the past. Used to trot out some kind of propaganda here I would presume.
    The same story, repeated every other year regards the financial landscape of Americans debt. So I would urge caution in seeing the news this time round as being anything NEW. Not to belittle the nature of true poverty.

    However, if one was to also put up stats for who in the world has the highest rates of consumption of resources..
    And then the cost of things from what I am aware of, and from observations here and there, American standard of living is very high compared to many other countries. This perhaps translates into high levels of wastage and living beyond means. Not necessarily beyond personal means, but beyond global means. When there is poverty, real poverty in the world, then this is caused by others having it all.. so to speak.

    Financial poverty is a topic being seeded all around the place. Here one of the catch phrases has been Child poverty, a bit of double think referring to poor families, making the argument that things should be done for the good of the child that goes without. The nature of what 'going without' means can be of many things. One gets the impression that it is trying to say children should be fed and housed, when in many cases it is talking about them not having entertainment and extra curricular activities paid for. The level of living is a big factor but won't be mentioned. People not affording food and rent, but affording cable tv, tobacco, disposable wipes, multiple digital devices like phones for the kids, 2 cars families, this that and the other.
    As much as there may be financially poor people, the sweeping arm of a news article will omit the causes of inequity and the actual topic of what is living within means. I would be hoping for people to focus on that, and the good news which could stem from it of people maybe changing their ways. However you will still get the oblivious in the now traditional polarisation of the haves and have nots.
    In the last 12 months I have actually pulled my TV out and flipped through the channels to see what sort of shit is getting broadcast. I am one who stopped watching well over 10 years ago, but decided it cant affect me, and to do things to keep in touch with the potential mind of my countryfolk. I don't actually watch much of it of course, just survey the landscape.

    We still get an abundance of cooking shows, renovation shows, and treasure hunting or antique shows.
    In amongst it was a show where poor people get to swap houses and incomes with rich people for a week. It is kind of interesting once or twice. British show, so the USA probably doesn't see it. It was quite an eye opener on many levels, lots of revelations and wisdom for viewers I hoped. Each subject or family coming away with new perspectives of the other side's living.

    Here in NZ some politician had come out with a curly one saying that people who earn 100k a year are still poor. That is hilarious to me. I know exactly how earning that much makes one plenty comfortable. It is certainly not poor. There are plenty of people earning considerably less who would be at least able 'to make out they are well off', (which seems to be a condition, a sign of the times). It can be quite sad watching the petty posturing over image in relation to status.
    So one thing highlighted would be that the propaganda side of these such reports has to do with some of the topics related to Adam Curtis documentaries. Creating a psyche of competitive outlook, fear of lack. Used in the old way to foster motivation within the masses to fulfil their roles as slaves, as materialism has produced gadgets and 'necessities' to meet demand, then the fear from controllers is that people will become content and start to look outside of constant collection of money to fill their days. News articles such as the OP and the ones included, are just as much an attempt to tighten the ropes as they are a reflection of any truth.

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    Senior Member NotAPretender's Avatar
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    My thoughts:

    It took the rightists almost 40 years to pull this off, but they did it...
    "We are one thought away from changing the world!"

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    Senior Member Amanda's Avatar
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    Being poor is a term that is open for discussion as it has a variety of meanings such as: Poor in a monetary manner or perhaps in a Spiritual/Conscience manner or not having all the latest technology or poor health et cetera.

    To adhere to the article that is the topic of this thread - it is suggestive that many American People are doing it tough with regards to paying rent and buying food and trying to have some semblance of a life that is being lived and not merely existed.

    I read somewhere that after the big fall of the two major american lending firms a few years ago - many, many, many People lost their homes to the banks. Some time later someone investigated the situation and completed the mathematics - and - essentially there are enough empty houses to home all the homeless people in America.

    To refer to enjoy being, about all the beam ray technology/television shows about cooking and food and here in Australia, I note loads of shows about renovating houses et cetera. That methinks is just to keep those who currently live in comfort - well - to stay in comfort???? Let's face it, when more and more and more People enter the awakened state, the topic of poverty and such will take on a new meaning.

    Just thinking out aloud ....

    Much Peace & Much Respect - For all those who don't have a roof over their head and do not know when their next meal is coming - Amanda
    Last edited by Amanda, 5th June 2018 at 03:13. Reason: Spelling Error

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    Super Moderator United States Dreamtimer's Avatar
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    With all the wealth being sucked upwards, it's not hard to believe at all.

    The derivatives markets and all the other stock-market gambling activities end up being paid for the the taxpayers to bail out Wall Street and the bankers and it is bankrupting all of us.

    Of course a bunch of people are in poverty.

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    Well, we lost 90% of our equity do to W trashing the market. In my old mindset, I would be devastated, but now I feel blessed as it could have easily been worse.

    ...I still find it hard to believe that almost 50% of folks in the “land of the free and home of the brave” are in bad financial shape.
    "Holding onto anger is like drinking poison and expecting the object of your anger to die” ~ Anon
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    Quote Originally posted by Dumpster Diver View Post
    Well, we lost 90% of our equity do to W trashing the market. In my old mindset, I would be devastated, but now I feel blessed as it could have easily been worse.

    ...I still find it hard to believe that almost 50% of folks in the “land of the free and home of the brave” are in bad financial shape.
    A lot depends on how poverty is defined — i.e. by what standards exactly — and in what country. There have certainly been a number of "bubbles" — i.e. periods of blind faith in a deceptive hype that later on turned out to have been an illusion at best and a trap at worst.

    The housing bubble was a fine example of such an illusion, and the bank bailouts were a fine example of a carefully constructed trap. And society still hasn't learned its lesson, because as soon as the next bubble bus comes around the corner, everyone's buying their ticket for a new ride again. The whole Blockchain thing is yet another such catastrophe waiting to happen, and many have already been bitten by it.

    That all said, The Donald™ has never been interested in the life of the common man. He's serving himself and his fellow oligarchs — which obviously still includes the military-industrial complex — and so you can expect the divide between rich and poor to open up even wider under his reign.

    Now, 43% does seem a bit too high in my personal opinion, but like I said, it's all in by what standards one defines poverty. Does one have to be homeless in order to qualify as poor? Does one have to be unemployed? Does one have to have debts? How exactly is this percentage calculated, and — perhaps even more importantly — against what target population?

    Was this 43% the result of an investigation of the income tax records of all US Acronymians, or was this a poll against a selection of — say — 1'000 individuals? And if so, who are these individuals and how were they selected? And are we talking of actual income deficits, or are we talking about people who say that they are poor, based upon their own judgment of what constitutes "poor"?

    In the end, statistics are commonly used the way a drunk uses a lamp post, i.e. for support, rather than illumination. I'm not saying it's not true, but without knowing the exact criteria, it's hard to come to any proper conclusion.
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    Many Europeans who have visited some US cities have been shocked to see the amount of homeless people in the streets.

    That's the wealthiest nation on Earth for you...

    https://www.sfchronicle.com/news/art...t-12534954.php

    These videos are over five years old already so the numbers are even worse now, btw.

    Last edited by Wind, 5th June 2018 at 20:43.

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    Quote Originally posted by Wind View Post
    Many Europeans who have visited some US cities have been shocked to see the amount of homeless people in the streets.

    That's the wealthiest nation on Earth for you...
    Actually, according to Business Insider UK, the wealthiest nation on Earth right now is actually Qatar, with a GDP of $129'726/£105'791/€110'745 per capita.
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    Senior Member NotAPretender's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Amanda View Post
    Being poor is a term that is open for discussion as it has a variety of meanings such as: Poor in a monetary manner or perhaps in a Spiritual/Conscience manner or not having all the latest technology or poor health et cetera.

    To adhere to the article that is the topic of this thread - it is suggestive that many American People are doing it tough with regards to paying rent and buying food and trying to have some semblance of a life that is being lived and not merely existed.

    I read somewhere that after the big fall of the two major american lending firms a few years ago - many, many, many People lost their homes to the banks. Some time later someone investigated the situation and completed the mathematics - and - essentially there are enough empty houses to home all the homeless people in America.

    To refer to enjoy being, about all the beam ray technology/television shows about cooking and food and here in Australia, I note loads of shows about renovating houses et cetera. That methinks is just to keep those who currently live in comfort - well - to stay in comfort???? Let's face it, when more and more and more People enter the awakened state, the topic of poverty and such will take on a new meaning.

    Just thinking out aloud ....

    Much Peace & Much Respect - For all those who don't have a roof over their head and do not know when their next meal is coming - Amanda
    yeah, there you go...I just finished 6 months of venting my outrage on big time apartment complex owners...the owners are soulless and their staffs are mindless...so, of course, I went out of my way to straighten them out...I despise those robots... no, really. I had to pay two months of rent when not even living in the city...I was sorely tempted to let some of the area homeless to live there...but I was afraid they might do some damage that I would be responsible for...but it's a scam...those...people...know that the economic cycle is 6 months, now they require 7 month leases...I wanted to * those *

    Quote Originally posted by Wind View Post
    Many Europeans who have visited some US cities have been shocked to see the amount of homeless people in the streets.

    That's the wealthiest nation on Earth for you...

    https://www.sfchronicle.com/news/art...t-12534954.php

    These videos are over five years old already so the numbers are even worse now, btw.

    "St. Reagan the fiscal responsible" started the ball rolling my de-funding most care facilities...I heard my older brother the conservative complain about that but somehow, somehow never made the connection between 'conservative politics' and people living on the street...
    "We are one thought away from changing the world!"

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    Quote Originally posted by modwiz View Post
    I do not like defining poverty in a monetized way. Many Chinese peasants lived in such a definition of poverty but, the quality of their lives, by a metric of happiness/content, is not part of the equation. I know people who are far from poverty and have less content than myself.
    There's a lot to that. One of the lessons living out here in the backwoods of Tennessee has taught me, is that people can and do live very happy lives with very little (financially speaking) to work with. I have learned much from them in the last 5 years so far as being frugal, inventive, and making do with what you have. Invaluable insights! Very few if any I can think of would consider themselves living in poverty, and they are proud people to boot.


    Quote Originally posted by Wind View Post
    Many Europeans who have visited some US cities have been shocked to see the amount of homeless people in the streets.

    That's the wealthiest nation on Earth for you...
    There is most certainly much truth to this, the massive homeless problem is indeed amongst our "hidden" shames. No doubt about that, and there is much blame to spread about from politics to central banks! Having said that however, many of them are out there on the streets by choice as well, it's a lifestyle decision. Some people simply give up on life for various reasons, and I can clearly see in in their eyes and their manner.

    There IMO is an added ingredient to this sickness in our society, an artificial ingredient, but that conversation would soon lead elsewhere...
    The unexamined life is not worth living.

    Socrates

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    Super Moderator United States Dreamtimer's Avatar
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    I love to reuse and be creative and save things. And most of my family likes to throw away things and update because they're bored with the current decor or whatever. It's too much effort to find someone else to use things. It's also a sign of wealth and prosperity that people can just buy and throw away.

    I get tired of being made fun of for saving and reusing things. But I do it anyway. I'd rather be creative and less wasteful than show off the fact that I can live a disposable lifestyle.

    I find it gross. Most people just assume jealousy. I have nothing to be jealous about. I have all I need/want. But people want to believe others are jealous. It makes them feel good.


    The first wave of homeless happened as a result of de-istitutionalization. A lot of mentally challenged and developmentally disabled people were put out on the streets. Literally. It was a good half of an idea, which missed the other half.

    What's the plan? What's the alternative program?

    There was none.

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    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    I love to reuse and be creative and save things. And most of my family likes to throw away things and update because they're bored with the current decor or whatever. [...]

    I'd rather be creative and less wasteful than show off the fact that I can live a disposable lifestyle.
    Same thing here. I'm a hoarder. I never throw anything away that looks like there could be some other and useful purpose for it.

    As an example, I've got loads of small glass jars in my cupboard. They are all about the same size and they are from things like hot dogs or strawberry jam, all with lids that seal very tightly. So once I've emptied them, I wash them off, remove their labels and all the gunk and glue used for attaching those, and I put them in my kitchen cupboard.

    As my brother works in nature and often come across things he would like to take home with him for putting on display in his shed, he was all too happy that I could supply him with ten jars a few weeks ago, and I told him that there's a lot more where that came from.

    As another example, certain pre-made meals — e.g. macaroni with ham and cheese — that you only have to heat up, usually comes in plastic trays. It's a fairly thick kind of plastic, which seems like it could be used for lots of other things. So if at all possible, then I wash them off, and I keep a stack of them in the cupboard. And so when I have to heat up something in the microwave oven, then I use one of those trays as a cover, so that whatever you're heating up doesn't splatter all over the inside of the microwave oven. In the event of anything with tomato sauce — e.g. a lasagna — that's a heaven-sent.

    My dad also always used to keep stuff around for future purposes, albeit that it was often stuff of a different nature. For instance, he'd keep around pieces of hardwood, pieces of metal, small floor tiles, and so on. But he was a tinkerer, and so he was always thinking ahead. Something that other people would normally throw away could always come in handy for repairing something, or for making something else out of. And my brother is just like him in that regard.
    = DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR =

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    Super Moderator United States Dreamtimer's Avatar
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    Jars are good. My son and his girlfriend have used them as drinking vessels.

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