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Thread: Myth And Magic

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    Senior Member Aianawa's Avatar
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    To know you know you know is refusal of that which you do not wish to know.

    You got some good flow today EnjoyB

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    Quote Originally posted by enjoy being View Post
    A book on the Patupaiarehe of NZ. An excerpt of which I placed in the Lounge thread too... They are often referred to as fairy folk, but their description is more like a demigod race of sorts, within the book are tales of encounters with them. These are not the only mythical beings spoken of in NZ, some seem to be 'just' peoples of early inhabitance of NZ, who could well have been ancestors of the Lemurian culture and others.



    Fairy Folk Tales of the Maori

    Fairy Folk Tales of the Maori — Introduction — Maori Legends of the “Patu-paiarehe.”


    A New Zealand poet once lamented the dearth of fairy lore in these islands, and in his ignorance made complaint:

    Why have we in these isles no fairy dell,
    No haunted wood, nor wild enchanted mere?

    He declared that this lack of faerie glamour must be filled by the imaginative writer—“The poet's art—as yet without avail—must weave the story.” It was unfortunate that a writer with so sympathetic a muse had never heard of the Maori's rich store of fairy legend and wonder-tale, of endless folk-talk about the supernatural, the sprites of the woods, the elusive Patu-paiarehe, the mysterious wild men of the mountains, the strange spirits that haunt great pools at river-sources, and streams and lakes. For all this in endless variety we have in New Zealand. There is not another country, not even Ireland or the fairy ridden Isle of Man, so full of folk-memories and primitive beliefs of this kind. The only reason that the pakeha does not know of it is that very, very few have gone to the trouble to delve into this class of myth and tradition and preserve while there is yet time the curious and poetic tales which crystallize for us the old Maori belief in unseen presences and the fairy folk that haunted many a lofty mountain and many a shadowy wood.

    Fairies, giants, fabulous monsters, marvel-working magicians, strange apparitions of forest and alp, have ever been found in countries of such a mountainous, broken and generously-wooded character as New Zealand, and it would be strange indeed if so imaginative a race as the Maori-Polynesian had not peopled the land with all manner of curious extra-human beings.

    Poetic above all the other myths of the strange and supernatural are the many stories which tell of that mystic race the Patu-paiarehe. This name Patu-paiarehe is the term applied by the Maori to the mysterious forest-dwelling people who for want of a more exact term may be described as the fairies of New Zealand. They are spoken of as an iwi-atua, a race of supernatural beings, and they are accredited with some of the marvellous powers attributed to the world of faerie in many other parts of the globe. Some folk-tales of the Maori describe them as little people, but the native fancy does not usually picture them the tiny elves common to the old-world fairydom. Most of the legends I have gathered give them the ordinary stature of mortals, while at the same time investing them with some of the characteristics of the enchanted tribes of other lands.

    The Patu-paiarehe were for the most part of much lighter complexion than the Maori; their hair was of the dull golden or reddish hue “uru-kehu,” such as is sometimes seen among the Maoris of to-day. They inhabited the remote parts of the wooded ranges, preferring the highest peaks such as Hihikiwi, on Mount Pirongia, and the summit of Te Aroha. They ventured out only by night and on days of heavy clouds and fog. They lived on forest foods, but sometimes they resorted to the shores of sea and lake for fish.

    They had a great aversion to the steam rising from the Maori cooking-ovens, and to the sight and smell of kokowai, the red ochre (hæmatite earth mixed with shark oil) with which the Maori bedaubed his dwelling and himself. They were greatly skilled in all manner of enchantments and magic, and they often employed these arts of gramarie to bewilder and terrify the iwi Maori. Nevertheless we find them at times living on good terms with their Maori neighbours, and indeed (see the Story of Tarapikau in “The Wars of the Fairies”) guarding the interests of their friends of the outer world and resenting any interference by Patu-paiarehe from another district.

    The Patu-paiarehe, in a number of these fairy tales, constituted themselves the guardians of sacred places and visited their displeasure on those who neglected the rites for the propitiation of the forest deities.

    This class of folk-tales no doubt originated in the actual existence of numerous tribes of aborigines who dwelt for safety in the more inaccessible parts of these islands. Many of them were reddish-haired, with fairer complexions than those of the Maori; the remnants of an immeasurably ancient fair-haired people who have left a strain of uru-kehu in most Maori tribes. As in the case of the ancient Picts (whence the word “pixy”), who were driven to take refuge in the caves and mountains of Scotland and Wales and the Peak of Derbyshire, the forest-dwelling refugees of New Zealand gradually became to the more powerful race an enchanted wizardly tribe, possessed of powers of transformation and of becoming invisible at will. The Patu-paiarehe were, as a rule, shy and peace-loving. The fiercer foresters, the Maero of legend, were not unlike the Fynnoderee of Manx country tales who played malevolent tricks on the farmer folk.

    The dense and thickly-matted character of the New Zealand forest, with a closely-woven roof of foliage through which the sunshine was filtered to a twilight, in the inner sanctuaries of the Wao-tapu-nui-a-Tane, made strong impression on the imaginative Maori mind, and it was natural to people the heart of the bush with unseen presences and supernatural creatures. The conjecture-provoking sounds heard in the forest in the quiet of the night, noises known to those who have bivouacked much in the high woods, heightened the popular belief in the existence of fairy folk.

    Patu-paiarehe legendry in the North Island, so far as my enquiries go, is associated chiefly with the forested peaks of the Waikato-Waipa basin, the Cape Colville-Te Aroha range, and the hills about Lake Rotorua. That beautiful mountain Kake-puku, in the Waipa Valley, was a fairy resort; there is a deep wooded valley on the western side beloved of the Patu-paiarehe from Pirongia mountain. They did not venture to other parts of the mountain because they sometimes saw the Maori fires burning on the summit and on the eastern and northern sides. Their path was in the drifting clouds and low-lying banks of fog like the Irish fairy king in William Allingham's old song:

    “With a bridge of white mist
    Columbkill he crosses,
    On his stately journeys
    From Slieveleague to Rosses.”

    In the South Island the sterner character of the landscapes, the tremendous craggy heights that wall Lake Wakatipu about, the vast white chain of the Alps, the solitudes of the tussock prairie, the silent forests, the deep, dark blue alpine lakes, tended to provide grim legends of the Maeroero, the Patu-paiarehe legendry in the North Island, so far as my enquiries go, is associated chiefly with the forested peaks of the Waikato-Waipa basin, the Cape Colville-Te Aroha range, and the hills about Lake Rotorua. That beautiful mountain Kake-puku, in the Waipa Valley, was a fairy resort; there is a deep wooded valley on the western side beloved of the Patu-paiarehe from Pirongia mountain. They did not venture to other parts of the mountain because they sometimes saw the Maori fires burning on the summit and on the eastern and northern sides. Their path was in the drifting clouds and low-lying banks of fog like the Irish fairy king in William Allingham's old song:

    “With a bridge of white mist
    Columbkill he crosses,
    On his stately journeys
    From Slieveleague to Rosses.”

    In the South Island the sterner character of the landscapes, the tremendous craggy heights that wall Lake Wakatipu about, the vast white chain of the Alps, the solitudes of the tussock prairie, the silent forests, the deep, dark blue alpine lakes, tended to provide grim legends of the Maeroero, the wild men and giants of the mountains, rather than folk-talk of the Patu-paiarehe. There was also a basis of fact in the historical tradition of the Ngati-Mamoe fugitives driven into the trackless forests of the great south-west, there to disappear, to vanish like the moa. “They still haunt the western forests,” said an old man of mingled Ngati-Mamoe and Ngai-Tahu blood, when we discussed the mystery of the vanished clan of his people. “They are an iwi-atua, gifted with supernatural powers. The reason they are not seen by pakeha explorers is that they can call down the mists and clouds of the mountains to conceal them, as they did long ago when they were pursued into the wilderness beyond Lake Te Anau. Na te kohu i whakaora—the fog is their salvation.”*
    ....
    This is good...the complexion of the Patu-paiarehe is interesting. It matches descriptions of 'ancient people'. Lemuria is the origin? Funny about that because just recently I read a description of the Atlanteans and they were described as 'dark' as in brown...Homer I believe.

    Quote Originally posted by Aianawa View Post
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    You got some good flow today EnjoyB
    hmmm, it can be an affront...but I always find my way out...
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    Senior Member Aianawa's Avatar
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    More mirrors than ostriches though plenty of sand and many guru's (lite showers/wayseers ) abounding la shire

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    There's Hawaiiki referred to as the original land by most Pacific cultures.

    But there is also reference to that also being The Land of Mu. Which is considered another name for Lemuria. But these are distinctly different. Recently a 'new' continent has been more openly spoken of.



    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zealandia
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/science/9732...ferent-climate

    So Hawaiiki is one place in modern ancient history, where as Lemuria is much older.
    It seems fairly agreed upon that Hawaiiki is in fact Hawaii.
    The third installation of Under the Carpet - Cousins across the Sea can fill some of that info in.

    There's the legend of Maui across the pacific. And then there is also a tale of an Egyptian navigator named Maui. Rata also being another maori name, and can describe the man Kupe.
    http://21sci-tech.com/articles/fall0...avigators.html

    Stories of Lemuria however are indeed harder to anchor. And they are of mythical origins of people who were part ethereal beings. New Zealand does get mentioned within them of what can be found, and often is referred to as a spiritual place even then. Though, such things are not found from historical documents written down and are but sensed commentary from the clair family of intuits.
    Last edited by enjoy being, 15th May 2018 at 23:58. Reason: belated spelling

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    Super Moderator United States Dreamtimer's Avatar
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    clair family of intuits.
    So many great phrases and words here. Maybe I'll make a little book.

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    Reading more into Lemuria and Mu, there is also someone calling Mu, Pan. And that person claims Lemuria is not Mu, and claims Atlantis was North America. So much guessing in relation to this lost time. But it feels like the truth is coming closer to the surface.

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    Quote Originally posted by NotAPretender View Post
    Perhaps it is what my daughter refers to as 'Cultural Appropriation'? Another form of 'colonialism'?

    It is the Archontic infection in its living breathing manifestation?
    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    Cultural appropriation is a tricky term. If you're trying to be something you're not, then it can apply. But if you're recognizing, enjoying, participating in a culture, it's not appropriation.

    People need to be able to celebrate culture without worrying about being accused of appropriating. We'll be fighting over every bit of clothing, jewelry, speech and song if we go too far down that road.

    Consider the fact of peoples all over the world living together with different cultural traditions. We can't all be in specialized enclaves, as in ghettos.


    So don't pretend you're an Indian, as in American. Just know what it means when you wear something and be able to tell about it. Give the people credit. That's sharing culture.
    There's a bit of a twist with this topic in my sight. I have just been watching a discussion on the Maori channel where young Maori talk about social issues and what it means to be Maori.
    Earlier today I was talking to my father on a related topic. The racial divisions between Euro NZ (pakeha) and Maori is a bit sad really.
    My way of seeing it is that the empire building British failed to conquer Maori with disease, war, or drugs, so resorted to treaty trickery. The division this has caused over the years has left echoes in which both peoples are stuck in a false view of themselves and each other.
    The Maori way in which I have been relaying here over months, is to me, old human. It is not just Maori way. There are customs and rituals for sure which are the Maori way of expressing the old ways of all humanity, and some of them apply to them specially. As in it is their culture and narrative. The wisdom is pretty much the same. The legends are repeated across the pacific with a very similar language. Like a canoe in Hawaii is a Wa'a and in NZ is a Waka, and so on. There's proof of there being one big pacific family with the same stories. Underlying, the wisdom belongs to everyone.

    But listening to these 20-30 something year old maori who are self aware and know their whakapapa and their reo, and identify as Maori, they still describe themselves as colonised. And they say one of the differences between Maori and Pakeha is that a Pakeha sees themselves as an individual entity, where as the Maori see them self as a part of a group. And it then goes further to identify capitalism and western ideals, consumerism, spiritual bankruptcy (in ways).. all the things we speak of here as being negative, deep state, archontic, or what have you, is labelled as being Pakeha. Which is 'sort of true' but not really eh, they are in effect labelling it as a racial thing. Putting all that is 'wrong' with the world, in the descriptor of, Pakeha, white people.
    This denies Pakeha an identity really if you see what I am trying to get at. If a NZ European wants to live their life in way which is parallel to Maori considerations, then effectively, they may be seen as trying to be Maori?
    The impetus is on Europeans to prove themselves as not being Pakeha? It is all terminology in ways, but describes the line in the sand drawn. All that is bad is effectively there to be blamed or labelled as Pakeha or NZ European, instead of what it really is.
    American gangster culture has slipped in easy to some Maori and Pacific Islanders, and too some Europeans, but with it there is another group formed, a hybrid that doesn't know what it is to be Maori, embraces the victim hood of Black American gangster rap, and blames the white man, but they are void of any culture really, just empty vessels playing on their colour and using it as an excuse for the confusion and 'normal' youth rebellion. In which when there is a cause to blame instead of looking at self, all that gets propagated is division.
    The two philosophies of the individual and the group, where each has some flaws which cut off the path back to togetherness.

    In the hope to bring this back on topic, as it really is an aside, I do see this same story playing out within people's own local mythos.

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    In America the white man is Pahana.

    I imagine there are similar dynamics though I don't know the connection to ancient pacific cultures. On the reservations white people are also referred to as Euros. Like the currency, though that wasn't the origin.

    That community mentality you talk about is now being called communism and therefore evil and wrong. In this country the hatred towards communal actions is getting acute. I'm not sure how that's going to end.

    It doesn't go with actual christian values and, imo, there's some serious religious karma coming.

    If someone wants to live a life of community here it's possible and you don't have to take on a new identity. It's easier in the Northwest.

    If you want to become involved in indian culture and societies you would need to demonstrate sincerity with work. That would involve health issues, economic issues, and government issues - as in Bureau of Indian Affairs.

    I hope I stayed on point, at least somewhat.

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    Quote Originally posted by enjoy being View Post
    There's Hawaiiki referred to as the original land by most Pacific cultures.

    But there is also reference to that also being The Land of Mu. Which is considered another name for Lemuria. But these are distinctly different. Recently a 'new' continent has been more openly spoken of.



    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zealandia
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/science/9732...ferent-climate

    So Hawaiiki is one place in modern ancient history, where as Lemuria is much older.
    It seems fairly agreed upon that Hawaiiki is in fact Hawaii.
    The third installation of Under the Carpet - Cousins across the Sea can fill some of that info in.

    There's the legend of Maui across the pacific. And then there is also a tale of an Egyptian navigator named Maui. Rata also being another maori name, and can describe the man Kupe.
    http://21sci-tech.com/articles/fall0...avigators.html

    Stories of Lemuria however are indeed harder to anchor. And they are of mythical origins of people who were part ethereal beings. New Zealand does get mentioned within them of what can be found, and often is referred to as a spiritual place even then. Though, such things are not found from historical documents written down and are but sensed commentary from the clair family of intuits.
    interesting again...one of the things that I've found fascinating about Hawaii and I posted about some time back...neither Mosquitoes or snakes (not to mention car horns) are indigenous to Hawaii...talk about paradise...

    Quote Originally posted by enjoy being View Post
    There's a bit of a twist with this topic in my sight. I have just been watching a discussion on the Maori channel where young Maori talk about social issues and what it means to be Maori.
    Earlier today I was talking to my father on a related topic. The racial divisions between Euro NZ (pakeha) and Maori is a bit sad really.
    My way of seeing it is that the empire building British failed to conquer Maori with disease, war, or drugs, so resorted to treaty trickery. The division this has caused over the years has left echoes in which both peoples are stuck in a false view of themselves and each other.
    The Maori way in which I have been relaying here over months, is to me, old human. It is not just Maori way. There are customs and rituals for sure which are the Maori way of expressing the old ways of all humanity, and some of them apply to them specially. As in it is their culture and narrative. The wisdom is pretty much the same. The legends are repeated across the pacific with a very similar language. Like a canoe in Hawaii is a Wa'a and in NZ is a Waka, and so on. There's proof of there being one big pacific family with the same stories. Underlying, the wisdom belongs to everyone.

    But listening to these 20-30 something year old maori who are self aware and know their whakapapa and their reo, and identify as Maori, they still describe themselves as colonised. And they say one of the differences between Maori and Pakeha is that a Pakeha sees themselves as an individual entity, where as the Maori see them self as a part of a group. And it then goes further to identify capitalism and western ideals, consumerism, spiritual bankruptcy (in ways).. all the things we speak of here as being negative, deep state, archontic, or what have you, is labelled as being Pakeha. Which is 'sort of true' but not really eh, they are in effect labelling it as a racial thing. Putting all that is 'wrong' with the world, in the descriptor of, Pakeha, white people.
    This denies Pakeha an identity really if you see what I am trying to get at. If a NZ European wants to live their life in way which is parallel to Maori considerations, then effectively, they may be seen as trying to be Maori?
    The impetus is on Europeans to prove themselves as not being Pakeha? It is all terminology in ways, but describes the line in the sand drawn. All that is bad is effectively there to be blamed or labelled as Pakeha or NZ European, instead of what it really is.
    American gangster culture has slipped in easy to some Maori and Pacific Islanders, and too some Europeans, but with it there is another group formed, a hybrid that doesn't know what it is to be Maori, embraces the victim hood of Black American gangster rap, and blames the white man, but they are void of any culture really, just empty vessels playing on their colour and using it as an excuse for the confusion and 'normal' youth rebellion. In which when there is a cause to blame instead of looking at self, all that gets propagated is division.
    The two philosophies of the individual and the group, where each has some flaws which cut off the path back to togetherness.

    In the hope to bring this back on topic, as it really is an aside, I do see this same story playing out within people's own local mythos.
    Amen to that...I've been around those types here in America and my advice to them is though there is truth in their thoughts to dwell on them will destroy them.

    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    In America the white man is Pahana.

    I imagine there are similar dynamics though I don't know the connection to ancient pacific cultures. On the reservations white people are also referred to as Euros. Like the currency, though that wasn't the origin.

    That community mentality you talk about is now being called communism and therefore evil and wrong. In this country the hatred towards communal actions is getting acute. I'm not sure how that's going to end.

    It doesn't go with actual christian values and, imo, there's some serious religious karma coming.

    If someone wants to live a life of community here it's possible and you don't have to take on a new identity. It's easier in the Northwest.

    If you want to become involved in indian culture and societies you would need to demonstrate sincerity with work. That would involve health issues, economic issues, and government issues - as in Bureau of Indian Affairs.

    I hope I stayed on point, at least somewhat.
    very good stuff, Dreamtimer...you and EB are speaking my language now...
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    Quote Originally posted by NotAPretender View Post
    interesting again...one of the things that I've found fascinating about Hawaii and I posted about some time back...neither Mosquitoes or snakes (not to mention car horns) are indigenous to Hawaii...talk about paradise...



    Amen to that...I've been around those types here in America and my advice to them is though there is truth in their thoughts to dwell on them will destroy them.



    very good stuff, Dreamtimer...you and EB are speaking my language now...
    Ditto. We all come from different places on our planet, but I think we "speak the same language" somehow. I can only recall what happened with the Celts, which then turned into Viking warriors which has gotten a really bad rap...because they were successful to a certain degree, but they lost the war, however I can assure you that it has never been forgotten completely. Personally I remember a peaceful existence and in touch with the planet on many levels.
    Whatever is true. Whatever is noble. Whatever is right. Whatever is lovely. Whatever is admirable. Anything of excellence and worthy of praise. Dwell on these things. Jesus Christ (I agree)

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    No mosquitoes in Hawaii?

    I’ll have to inform those that bit me on Big Island, Oahu, and Kauai that they don’t exist.
    "Holding onto anger is like drinking poison and expecting the object of your anger to die” ~ Anon
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    Senior Member NotAPretender's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Dumpster Diver View Post
    No mosquitoes in Hawaii?

    I’ll have to inform those that bit me on Big Island, Oahu, and Kauai that they don’t exist.
    Not 'indigenous' DD...pay attention...just kidding...

    b.t.w. Those two videos that I posted in Keep Trying's thread about anti-grav...I think support your 'electric' universe hypothesis
    Last edited by NotAPretender, 17th May 2018 at 13:09.
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    I think you're right about the bad rap, Elen. I've heard that Viking was just a title for a job. Overall the people were explorers, traders, etc.

    The pahana that first came was friendly and had respect for nature. I've heard stories about different peoples waiting for the return of pahana and wondering whether he would still be brother or would be enemy.

    I think they got their answer...
    Last edited by Dreamtimer, 18th May 2018 at 08:04. Reason: verb tense

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  27. #104
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    Yep. So the choice of favourite bandwagon to project upon. Race, usually it seems, but gender or wealth or whichever poison one likes to trade in.
    The lobbing of concerns from the internally discontent.
    It's surrogacy.
    But what is the solution. Well the second solution after identifying the existence of the personal bouncy castle.
    Or the group bouncy castle... one in which the projection can be galvanised.
    Well, all I can see as a next step is disengaging yourself from that partnership when you find your role.
    Not abandoning, but becoming a different projection, or a non target.
    The onus is in those who can see the archetypes being projected, and becoming the exceptions.
    Which ought come just by being and doing, inner resolution.
    Here, if the Pakeha tipped over into NOT being symbolic of others leaning posts, then I feel the Maori have the other part of the equation, and that is of forgiveness and acceptance in their role in a humanity rather than the lock down of the closed circle many seem to wish to propagate.

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