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Thread: Project Serpo...again...

  1. #16
    Administrator Aragorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by KeepTrying View Post
    You should update the Home page here that this is a one-sided, partisan, political website.
    So long as there are still other people than yourself posting threads, that won't be necessary.
    = DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR =

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    Administrator Aragorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Dumpster Diver View Post
    Quote Originally posted by Aragorn View Post
    Quote Originally posted by Dumpster Diver View Post
    Here’s another crazy theory for you: if enough people believe in something, it will show up in a timeline. Several SF authors has used this as a plot device starting by Robert A. Heinlein in “The Number of the Beast.” It’s very possible in our co-creative consciousness according to even main stream authors: https://www.amazon.com/Holographic-U.../dp/0062014102 and supported by the latest research in science especially quantum mechanics.

    Under this “theory” Serpo can be real simply by getting enough folks to believe in it. Indeed, that may have been the objective in the first place.
    That one is tricky. Insofar as anyone knows, we can indeed cause things to manifest at the quantum level, but when we're talking of macroscopic events in which living beings — both human and non-human — are involved, things become far more complicated.

    Erwin Schrödinger's (in)famous thought experiment with the cat was specifically intended as an objection to the Copenhagen interpretation of quantum uncertainty, which itself allows for quantum effects to percolate into the macrocosm. The macrocosm works in fewer physical dimensions than are present at the quantum scale, and the distillation process from this higher-dimensional environment into the lower-dimensional one solidifies things at the macrocosm level against quantum-scale modifications of reality.

    Furthermore, with my understanding of physics — and mind you that in this case, I am not adopting the mainstream scientific vantage on how time works — one cannot retroactively change the past. The only way to "change the past" is to create a dedicated new timeline that branches off from one point in the past, but this would require first of all that one would travel back in time to the branch point, and secondly, that one would remain on the newly created timeline.

    One cannot create an alternate timeline merely by thought or intent, because the universe does not index time the way we do. A timeline is merely a transitional process from one series of events to another series of events, and these events all have to manifest physically.

    The creator of the alternate timeline must also be a subjective participant in the creation and/or manipulation of these events. And then for the creator of the branch-off, the new timeline will become theirs, and at that point there's no turning back anymore. Not unless it is a closed time-like loop. But that wouldn't be the case in the event of what you're suggesting, because a closed time-like loop does not create a progressing reality — it merely substitutes a short passage of time by a different sequence of events that will not change the events as they occur after the loop has reconnected with the original timeline.

    The original timeline from whence the subject came will also simply continue on as it always has, without any changes to its past, although the subject who traveled back to the past in order to change it will be known to have disappeared without a trace from the moment they stepped into the time capsule, and will thus no longer be part of the present or the future of the original timeline.



    As a short recap for the attention-span-impaired:

    • It is possible to branch off a new timeline, but one has to be an active and subjective participant of the new timeline. It cannot be done remotely by thought, intent or some other kind of non-presence.

    • Once one has branched off the timeline into a new one, one will remain stuck on the new timeline and one cannot go back to the original timeline unless the new timeline is a closed time-like loop. But if it is a closed time-like loop, then nothing that happens within the loop will have any effect on the events outside of the loop, i.e. the events that took place on the original timeline before the branch-off was created, and the events as they take place on the original timeline after the loop reconnects with it.
    Interesting, but from my research into Montauk and other time travelers, there a a number of folks claiming otherwise, i.e. folks have stepped into a timeline, changed things, and then stepped out.
    Always remember that there is no evidence of that. The truth regarding that kind of stuff remains hidden, which means that everything boils down to a belief system, just as with Corey's blue chickens, or with the Chris Thomas material, or with Islam, or any other religion.

    Furthermore, if it is true that these people changed things on another timeline and then stepped out of it again, then it must have been a closed time-like loop, and then their changes will only affect the loop they were in.


    "Ya cannot break the laws of physics, Captain."

    (Montgomery Scott, Chief Engineer of the NCC-1707 Enterprise)


    Quote Originally posted by Dumpster Diver View Post
    Plus, splitting your essence into two separate beings seems possible, so you can “exist” in two differing timelines at once.
    That's not how it works. The key here is your consciousness. If you keep in mind that other people than yourself only exist in your awareness — because you are the Self and they are the Other — then it is possible for you to encounter "duplicates" of the people you know when you embark on another timeline. But you yourself cannot be on multiple timelines at the same time, regardless of what anyone says.

    Mind you, if I were to jump to another timeline, then I would probably run into a duplicate of yourself. But I wouldn't run into any duplicate of myself. Once again, the key is consciousness — the consciousness of the Self.

    Quote Originally posted by Dumpster Diver View Post
    Then “reinforcing” a timeline by “gas-lighting” folks into believing such seems to be a tactic as well.
    I've never heard of that. Just because somebody on the internet says so doesn't make it true, you know.

    Quote Originally posted by Dumpster Diver View Post
    I guess there is some good reason for allowing all this timeline crap. Frankly, I think it just is a bunch of trouble. If I were “God” for a day, I’d shut it all down.
    All evidence so far seems to suggest that the universe itself actively prevents that sort of messing with the timelines.
    = DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR =

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  5. #18
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    So much of what is included in "alternative" websites just does not stand up to close scientific scrutiny, yet we walk a narrow line between healthy scepticism and being branded closed minded.

    Far too often the onus is on the spectator to prove items are truthful as doubting will show up ones own lack of belief/knowledge.

    Having a close interest in the sciences does sometimes help to decide if an item is plausible or not but I learned a long time ago that I do not know everything and shuttering your mind is the biggest obstacle to learning.

    In the case of Serpo, after reading the vast quantity of documents from the original release, I was prepared to accept that this story could have some merit.

    But in a textbook disinformation attempt, misinformation, enough to discredit the whole story, was planted by Doty and had the necessary effect.

    My instinct at the time was that there was some truth to the story and I still believe so.

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  7. #19
    Super Moderator United States Dreamtimer's Avatar
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    Clematis, Clamatis. I like the second pronunciation better.

    If this forum is 'liberal' I'm a monkey's uncle.

    If you want liberal, KT, go visit Daily Kos. Then you'll see what the real concerns of progressives are. And you'll see some bad language and mocking of conspiracy theories. And lots of stuff that is not positive about Trump.

    Perhaps then you will have some context with which to use your labels.

    Ultimately though, labels don't apply to this place. As modwiz says, it's more of a boutique than a big package store.

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  9. #20
    Senior Member United States Dumpster Diver's Avatar
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    Aragorn. Dude. You refuse to consider that most, if not all the science we been “sold” is false. As two examples of many, you refuse to consider redshift and Halton Arp’s work on quasars is evidence that the whole standard model of astrophysics is junk science. You haven’t read any of Ben Davidson’s work. You think the entire Electric Universe Theory is bad. And now you are throwing essentially the entire basis of TOT under the bus.

    You cannot even consider that other researched views just might be right and then you admit you haven’t read the work!

    As I said elsewhere, I consider possibilities. Everything exists in a state of probability. In this Holographic Universe, highlighted by Quantum Mechanics, this seems to be the state of my reality. Your’s must differ.

    EVERYTHING I post has some evidence. All of it comes from things I have personally viewed and extended by my readings, research, and interviews.

    You might try this sometime instead of taking the Deep State’s “science” as fact and using your position to squash dissenting views.
    "Holding onto anger is like drinking poison and expecting the object of your anger to die” ~ Anon
    "When you come to a fork in the road, take it." ~Yogi Berra
    "You can observe a lot by just watching." ~Yogi Berra
    “When I die, I want to die like my grandfather who died peacefully in his sleep. Not screaming like all the passengers in his car.” ~Will Rogers
    "If life gives you melons...you might be dyslexic" ~ Aixelsyd Dnarber

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  11. #21
    Super Moderator Norway Elen's Avatar
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    My point of view doesn't count in this connection...I know But "The Truth" is just another carrot dangling in front of us...there...I've said it.
    Whatever is true. Whatever is noble. Whatever is right. Whatever is lovely. Whatever is admirable. Anything of excellence and worthy of praise. Dwell on these things. Jesus Christ (I agree)

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    Quote Originally posted by Elen View Post
    My point of view doesn't count in this connection...I know But "The Truth" is just another carrot dangling in front of us...there...I've said it.
    I love your point of view.
    ..truth carrot... and coupled with choosing to commit belief.
    "So and so happened"
    "Really?"
    "Yep"
    "How do you know?"
    "I read it, someone who I believe said it"
    "Why do you believe them?"
    "Because it was convincing"

    "Why are you defending that person who is wrong?"
    "They are my friend"

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    Super Moderator Norway Elen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Nothing View Post
    I love your point of view.
    ..truth carrot... and coupled with choosing to commit belief.
    "So and so happened"
    "Really?"
    "Yep"
    "How do you know?"
    "I read it, someone who I believe said it"
    "Why do you believe them?"
    "Because it was convincing"

    "Why are you defending that person who is wrong?"
    "They are my friend"
    Thank you Mr. Nothing!
    Whatever is true. Whatever is noble. Whatever is right. Whatever is lovely. Whatever is admirable. Anything of excellence and worthy of praise. Dwell on these things. Jesus Christ (I agree)

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    Super Moderator United States Dreamtimer's Avatar
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    Aragorn's opinions/knowledge aren't equivalent to those of the forum or it's founder. Neither are they required for membership. Aragorn isn't stopping the conversations, and he leaves threads when it's indicated that he's not welcome.

    TOT isn't undermining the alternative movement. It doesn't have that much sway, that level of alt-world gravitas. It's not extensive enough and doesn't have the likes of Corey Goode anymore.

    The right wing is doing things like taking the symbols of Asatru and trying to make them theirs. Attaching these ancient symbols to their modern race identity. TOT is a place where we can talk about how that's maybe not a good idea.


    Jeffrey W is posting about his papers here. Aragorn has challenged him. He's still here and still publishing and still posting. Nobody is stopping him.


    I've enjoyed several Electric Universe videos which can be found on this site. I think they have something to offer despite the fact that Einsteins physics haven't been disproven. We can still explore ideas.

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  19. #25
    Administrator Aragorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Dumpster Diver View Post
    Aragorn. Dude. You refuse to consider that most, if not all the science we been “sold” is false.
    That is exactly the kind of knee-jerk reaction that gives us "alternative community" folks a bad reputation. It's also the argument ad nauseam for proponents of the Flat Earth hypothesis.

    Look, if mainstream science says that something works because of this and that reason, and there are decades of physical evidence and practical application to support it, then the mainstream scientific explanation is most likely the correct one. Occam's razor, et al.

    Quote Originally posted by Dumpster Diver View Post
    As two examples of many, you refuse to consider redshift and Halton Arp’s work on quasars is evidence that the whole standard model of astrophysics is junk science.
    Those are two wrong conclusions — both the supposition that I am refusing to acknowledge the possibility that redshift could have other causes in addition to being caused by something that is moving away from us at a measurable speed, and the supposition that the whole of astrophysics would be junk science.

    Just because an observation of a particular phenomenon may have additional causes in maybe 10-15% of the cases doesn't completely negate the explanation for the other 85-90%. Once again, dismissing everything that is factually known so far because of a single imperfection is a knee-jerk reaction.

    Quote Originally posted by Dumpster Diver View Post
    You haven’t read any of Ben Davidson’s work. You think the entire Electric Universe Theory is bad. And now you are throwing essentially the entire basis of TOT under the bus.
    Hyperbole much? No, don't answer that.

    Quote Originally posted by Dumpster Diver View Post
    You cannot even consider that other researched views just might be right and then you admit you haven’t read the work!
    Like I said, your suppositions are wrong.

    Quote Originally posted by Dumpster Diver View Post
    As I said elsewhere, I consider possibilities. Everything exists in a state of probability. In this Holographic Universe, highlighted by Quantum Mechanics, this seems to be the state of my reality. Your’s must differ.
    Any consideration of possibilities and plausibilities must be rooted in an understanding of the proven facts. I'm afraid that your "possibilities" are based upon a knee-jerk reaction against mainstream science just because it is mainstream science, as well as upon a street credibility that you yourself apply onto the work of people who question or even reject the whole scientific narrative based upon their (real or purported) discovery of a few minor imperfections in said narrative, and whereby you yourself then assign this street credibility based upon your own unfamiliarity with — and knee-jerk rebellion against — the very basics of the science that these people reject.

    Quote Originally posted by Dumpster Diver View Post
    EVERYTHING I post has some evidence. All of it comes from things I have personally viewed and extended by my readings, research, and interviews.
    The same applies to me. The difference however is that I understand the subject matter, while you don't. You read something and you think it's plausible because you don't have the background to understand the underlying principles. And that's the same kind of self-delusion and intellectual dishonesty as applied by the Flat Earth people, the autism-is-caused-by-vaccines people and the everyone-but-me-is-a-satanic-pedophile people.

    Quote Originally posted by Dumpster Diver View Post
    You might try this sometime instead of taking the Deep State’s “science” as fact and using your position to squash dissenting views.
    First of all, the Deep State is a US-specific "alt-right" knee-jerk moniker for the inherent corruption of the very crypto-fascist regime in the United States of America, in which the factual truth of the crypto-fascism itself is still not acknowledged by either party in the bipartisan dog-and-pony show. First it was the Dirty Commies, and now it's the Deep State.

    No, the problem is the very fact that the USA is a crypto-fascist regime, whereby politicians are only the serfs of the psychopathic corporate world. There's your Deep State: the corporate sector, the trigger-happy always-ready-for-war military, the ridiculous amount of autocratic alphabet soup agencies run by psychopaths, and the whole army of congressional lobbyists. And now you've even got a mafia don running the whole sideshow.

    Secondly, I absolutely resent the insinuation that I would be using or abusing my position as the administrator of The One Truth for "squashing dissenting views". Your allegation is repulsively dishonest, and if you actually believe what you just said, then it's no wonder that you readily accept any kind of wild woo-woo knee-jerk.

    When I write the kinds of technical posts that I've been submitting to this thread in the past few days, then I am writing as myself, with my background in various sciences — not as the administrator of this forum. And perhaps you haven't noticed, but staff members are people too, and they too have a right to express their opinions and experiences. It is therefore beyond lame to reject anything I say on the grounds of the fact that I also happen to be the administrator of The One Truth.

    But such an allegation is of course a perfect way to silence the opposition. If you can't refute the arguments, shoot the messenger instead. Funnily enough, that's also the proven modus operandi of most of the Usenet trolls I've already come across. They can't deal with the arguments, so they discredit the person who posted them instead.

    Once again, another knee-jerk, and also once again an insulting one — the second one in only a few days, or was it the third one already? You're becoming really good at insulting your friends. And if you have to resort to insulting somebody in order to make your case, then you've already lost the debate. But only an honest person would recognize that.

    Time for me to leave this thread. I'm too old to still be wasting my time debating with dishonest people. You can have your "victory".
    = DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR =

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  21. #26
    Senior Member palooka's revenge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    Clematis, Clamatis. I like the second pronunciation better.

    If this forum is 'liberal' I'm a monkey's uncle.

    If you want liberal, KT, go visit Daily Kos. Then you'll see what the real concerns of progressives are. And you'll see some bad language and mocking of conspiracy theories. And lots of stuff that is not positive about Trump.

    Perhaps then you will have some context with which to use your labels.

    Ultimately though, labels don't apply to this place. As modwiz says, it's more of a boutique than a big package store.
    in spades!!!

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    Senior Member palooka's revenge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Dumpster Diver View Post
    Interesting, but from my research into Montauk and other time travelers, there a a number of folks claiming otherwise, i.e. folks have stepped into a timeline, changed things, and then stepped out
    i concur, 'cept its a whole lot more complicated than just steppin' in and steppin' out. i'd attempt to unpack that if i could get it to the word level...

    Plus, splitting your essence into two separate beings seems possible, so you can “exist” in two differing timelines at once.
    yeah, we do it all the time. 'n i do mean we. as in me, i, myself, and all the rest. the good news is, integration is possible...

    I guess there is some good reason for allowing all this timeline crap. Frankly, I think it just is a bunch of trouble. If I were “God” for a day, I’d shut it all down.
    oh, but then what the hell would we do for excitement??
    Last edited by palooka's revenge, 26th April 2018 at 19:02.

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    Senior Member palooka's revenge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by KeepTrying View Post
    You should update the Home page here that this is a one-sided, partisan, political website.
    oh please! i'm new here. but i lurked for well over a year before i registered. if there is one side here it is anything but political. the commonality i see is the desire for life! and truth!!

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    Super Moderator United States Dreamtimer's Avatar
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    I prefer scouting things out. You call it cheating, Dumpy, but in light of people abusing time travel, if what you say is true, I don't think it's cheating. I'm more referring to looking into the future than changing the past, but one can look at the past too...perhaps seeing what's being changed. I don't think that's impossible at all.

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    Senior Member palooka's revenge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by ArtyCarl View Post

    Far too often the onus is on the spectator to prove items are truthful as doubting will show up ones own lack of belief/knowledge.
    And this dynamic has an incredible influence on the state energies are in going forward and thus, what manifests into form as what follows...

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