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Thread: Magic and Witchcraft: The Beginning

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    Magic and Witchcraft: The Beginning

    This is an open thread, open to any post that one wishes to add. It isn’t as if it really matters anyway. Humanity only sees and hears the meme, memes are very catchy, almost as if they are an infection that enables sight and sound.

    These are excerpts from Lyall Watson’s book Dark Nature
    Lyall Watson: a South African botanist, zoologist, biologist, anthropologist, ethologist

    “Ever since there were humans, there have been human desires. These differ from culture to culture, but the one fact common to all people everywhere is that nobody’s desires are ever completely satisfied. We always want more. More food, more land, more women, more children, more power, more respect, more money, more freedom—whatever. And as each desire is temporarily sated, the need transfers, automatically to another kind of hunger. In most other species, needs are constrained by ecological realities and, though competition persists, communities settle into more or less stable sets of relationships. Humans changed all that by turning natural needs into more disruptive “wants” and set in train our most universal characteristic, a tendency to disturb the ecology by trying to control it to our own advantage.

    Our first attempts were probably directed at increasing productivity, and took the form of projecting our own internal desires onto the external world. Something we seem to have begun to do very early, perhaps as soon as we gave up scavenging and learned to hunt. Hunting is a risky business, a hit-or-miss affair, and anything that seemed to lessen the uncertainty would have been very welcome and quickly adopted. Omar Moore, an anthropologist suggested how this could have begun. He pointed to a custom which may still be in use among Native Americans who hunt the caribou in Labrador. When uncertain which way to take the hunt, they consult the hunted. They hold the shoulder bone of a caribou over hot coals and then interpret the cracks and spots produced by heat as a map, going where it seems to indicate. The marks are largely random, and are likely to lead to caribou only as a matter of chance, but over a period of time those using the technique and making such random forays tend to make better and more balanced use of their land. And in the long run, they become more successful hunters than those whose natural inclination to go back to where they had last hunted successfully very often leads to local overhunting.

    There is a tendency to dismiss such practices as ‘superstition,” with the condescending observation that they are based on false premises. Perhaps. But as Moore points out: “Some practices which have been classified as magic, may well be directly efficacious for attaining the ends envisaged by their practitioners.” Sometimes the magic works.
    "We are one thought away from changing the world!"

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    Hmm. Magic is our gift from our Mother. It is the Matrix we live in. (The movie was about the Patrix) So, this could be a wonderful topic but, the author of the work this is pushing off on has a 'dark' vision of it. Only practitioners, who by trial and error learn the craft, can speak competently on the subject. Others are observers. Magic is personal and complex.

    Let me insert a very logical and even politically acceptable modern magician here and see if it is helpful. This has potential for a good thread, though what is good may differ for the members here. This is a subject that is dear to my heart and big part of my life. The praxis that is. The many types of magic can makes words obstacles but, with some thought and precision, we may be able to get somewhere.

    I would like to think that those who actually practice some form of magic will get a teeny, tiny bit of deference from those who do not. However, some who may be doing it without knowing it might discover that in a clean exposition of the subject.

    To the newer people here, I HATE typing. Modern technology allows us voice and face communication for deep subjects that are important to us and that is where much of my energy is spent. Disdain for typing and knowing text totally sucks for the most important part of a communication. The emotional part. I hate typing. BTW, hating abstracts and/or things is OK. Hating living things is generally unacceptable.

    Gordon White is a lovely man and quite intelligent. This addresses a magicians quandary with the Syria situation. A sobering treatment, IMO.

    Last edited by modwiz, 22nd April 2018 at 00:44.
    "To learn who rules over you simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize" -- Voltaire

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    Dreaming is one of our magics.

    "To learn who rules over you simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize" -- Voltaire

    "Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people."-- Eleanor Roosevelt

    "Misery loves company. Wisdom has to look for it." -- Anonymous

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    The Scarlet Woman, women of wisdom scorned by a magic forbidding Patrix.

    "To learn who rules over you simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize" -- Voltaire

    "Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people."-- Eleanor Roosevelt

    "Misery loves company. Wisdom has to look for it." -- Anonymous

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    "To learn who rules over you simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize" -- Voltaire

    "Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people."-- Eleanor Roosevelt

    "Misery loves company. Wisdom has to look for it." -- Anonymous

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    Quote Originally posted by modwiz View Post
    Hmm. Magic is our gift from our Mother. It is the Matrix we live in. (The movie was about the Patrix) So, this could be a wonderful topic but, the author of the work this is pushing off on has a 'dark' vision of it. Only practitioners, who by trial and error learn the craft, can speak competently on the subject. Others are observers. Magic is personal and complex.

    Let me insert a very logical and even politically acceptable modern magician here and see if it is helpful. This has potential for a good thread, though what is good may differ for the members here. This is a subject that is dear to my heart and big part of my life. The praxis that is. The many types of magic can makes words obstacles but, with some thought and precision, we may be able to get somewhere.

    I would like to think that those who actually practice some form of magic will get a teeny, tiny bit of deference from those who do not. However, some who may be doing it without knowing it might discover that in a clean exposition of the subject.

    To the newer people here, I HATE typing. Modern technology allows us voice and face communication for deep subjects that are important to us and that is where much of my energy is spent. Disdain for typing and knowing text totally sucks for the most important part of a communication. The emotional part. I hate typing. BTW, hating abstracts and/or things is OK. Hating living things is generally unacceptable.

    Gordon White is a lovely man and quite intelligent. This addresses a magicians quandary with the Syria situation. A sobering treatment, IMO.

    Rather than dark, he has a vision of such things as a 'cultural' leap really beyond humanity as part of its natural habitat. It will come clearer as I add his reflections. Admittedly in reading him, one expects the worst, but he comes true to his nature later. For example, he cites Rupert Sheldrake. That is why I read material that seems anti-thetical to my perspective because often in the course of reading one discovers that there actually is agreement.
    "We are one thought away from changing the world!"

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    Member on Sabbatical Morocco modwiz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by NotAPretender View Post
    Rather than dark, he has a vision of such things as a 'cultural' leap really beyond humanity as part of its natural habitat. It will come clearer as I add his reflections. Admittedly in reading him, one expects the worst, but he comes true to his nature later. For example, he cites Rupert Sheldrake. That is why I read material that seems anti-thetical to my perspective because often in the course of reading one discovers that there actually is agreement.
    I like your perspective. And, if not coming from years/decades of a magical praxis, a logical way to engage it.
    "To learn who rules over you simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize" -- Voltaire

    "Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people."-- Eleanor Roosevelt

    "Misery loves company. Wisdom has to look for it." -- Anonymous

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    I like Thomas, a lot. He understands the very Earth we walk on and live, is magical. He stays away from the complexities scholars bring to a subject that is not as much an intellectual engagement but, an experiential and experimental one. He speaks to all, regardless of IQ, which is not equally distributed, nor does it need to be. He is a good example of a modern pagan, and dispels (spell) the many misunderstanding of what a pagan is/was.


    Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WmVyVys9Pw


    More Gordon White and a guest with some 'credentials' recognized in the world we live in.

    "To learn who rules over you simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize" -- Voltaire

    "Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people."-- Eleanor Roosevelt

    "Misery loves company. Wisdom has to look for it." -- Anonymous

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    Im sorry but I find that magic and witchcraft are deceptive words used by people who like the labels and wish to separate some kind of mystery and intrigue out from what is really just the mechanics of all.
    I 'use' my natural thinking and acting all the time, though it is not really people using "magic" it is the "magic" using people, if there was a general direction of the flow. And sure, a lot of unaware people don't realise their actions, but so too with some of those who push the whole thing into a realm of fantasy. It is probably a safe guard.


    oh, but dont mind me, for lacks of better terminologies yknow
    Last edited by enjoy being, 22nd April 2018 at 03:09.

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    Here is a good and short one by Thomas Sheridan.

    "To learn who rules over you simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize" -- Voltaire

    "Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people."-- Eleanor Roosevelt

    "Misery loves company. Wisdom has to look for it." -- Anonymous

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    Yeah, that Thomas Sheridan clip goes a way to describe some of what I was struggling to express. Would pop in an Aiawanese macro micro comment too. Could he still swap the word 'magic' with the word 'life'? It fits in my view :-)

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    Quote Originally posted by Nothing View Post
    Im sorry but I find that magic and witchcraft are deceptive words used by people who like the labels and wish to separate some kind of mystery and intrigue out from what is really just the mechanics of all.
    I 'use' my natural thinking and acting all the time, though it is not really people using "magic" it is the "magic" using people, if there was a general direction of the flow. And sure, a lot of unaware people don't realise their actions, but so too with some of those who push the whole thing into a realm of fantasy. It is probably a safe guard.


    oh, but dont mind me, for lacks of better terminologies yknow
    Let me say, I'm not a convert to the fold and I am amenable to the notion that magic and witchcraft are simply words to help describe creation. To clarify the terminology in Watson's words, he views 'magic' as the word ascribed by culture to be a 'positive' and witchcraft as its polar opposite to mean 'negative'. He makes no real judgment on the words, he just 'ruminates' on the social ramifications. But, in the end, he is a believer in the 'energy field' surrounding existence, analogous to Sheldrake's 'Morphic field'.
    "We are one thought away from changing the world!"

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    Important thread (corrected from threat...l’m mildly dyslexic and with the hob the spellchecker plays, hugely susceptible. My thanks to Nothing for pointing this out) to me in my current state. I’m going to take some time to view the videos before I post any of my normal village idiot comments....
    Last edited by Dumpster Diver, 22nd April 2018 at 16:19.
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    Quote Originally posted by Dumpster Diver View Post
    Important threat to me in my current state. I’m going to take some time to view the videos before I post any of my normal village idiot comments....
    Take it easy Batman,
    Whatever is true. Whatever is noble. Whatever is right. Whatever is lovely. Whatever is admirable. Anything of excellence and worthy of praise. Dwell on these things. Jesus Christ (I agree)

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    Quote Originally posted by Dumpster Diver View Post
    Important threat to me in my current state. I’m going to take some time to view the videos before I post any of my normal village idiot comments....
    I say go for it, Mr Dumpster...too much seriousness makes the shire a boring place...
    "We are one thought away from changing the world!"

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