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Thread: The Talmud

  1. #16
    Senior Member tarka the duck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by KeepTrying View Post
    I am interested in what Dr. Lorraine Day has to say, because I am very impressed with her deathbed recovery from cancer after she asked God to show her the way.
    If you are interested in Talmud, you should be talking to practitioners and scholars of Talmud - not a fundamentalist Christian who believes God saved her.

    Quote Originally posted by KeepTrying View Post
    I just heard her say that in the Talmud it says that a Jewish doctor is never to save the life of a non-Jew.[
    If you are interested in Talmud, you should be talking to practitioners and scholars of Talmud - not a fundamentalist Christian who believes God saved her.
    That's like me asking my radical vegan niece for her favourite steak pie recipe ...

    Lorraine Day clearly knows absolutely nothing about the Talmud if she said that. That statement is so fundamentally opposed to everything Judaism
    holds important as to be laughable (but not in a funny way).

    To consider, even for a moment, that Jewish doctor would not save the life of a non-Jew is evidence of a serious deficit in the department of critical thinking.
    And it’s a perfect example of the way that hatred and bigotry override rationality.

    Think about it. 14% of doctors in the US are Jewish. And no one has noticed that these 140,000 Jewish doctors are deliberately letting non-Jews die??
    In a country where litigation is a national pastime, why has no one sued their asses off for negligence on religious grounds??

    Why not? Because it's a lie. A fabrication. An invention. A deception. A myth. A variation on the medieval canards of blood libel and well poisoning.


    The list of Israeli humanitarian organisations and NGOs that work across the world speaks volumes. Israel has a long tradition of offering humanitarian aid
    to help alleviate disease, hunger, and poverty through non-governmental, non-political, non-partisan, non-profit volunteer-led organisations - offering
    assistance to populations in need with equality and universality, regardless of religion, race, gender, culture or nationality.

    Here are just a few such organisations:

    https://www.saveachildsheart.com/about-us/
    http://www.eyefromzion.com
    http://www.israaid.co.il/about
    https://www.israelrescuecoalition.org
    https://www.latet.org.il/en/
    http://ifaid.com
    https://israelrescue.org/blog/
    https://www.zaka.us


    I’ll be back later with more random thoughts about this … it's a beautiful day here and the garden is calling
    Last edited by tarka the duck, 22nd April 2018 at 11:34.

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    Quote Originally posted by tarka the duck View Post
    If you are interested in Talmud, you should be talking to practitioners and scholars of Talmud - not a fundamentalist Christian who believes God saved her.
    Actually Lorraine Day is not associated with any organized religion, and her reference to God is in relation to natural law—common sense things we all need to get well, such as nutrition, sunlight, drinking water, and forgiveness.

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    Quote Originally posted by KeepTrying View Post
    Actually Lorraine Day is not associated with any organized religion, and her reference to God is in relation to natural law—common sense things we all need to get well, such as nutrition, sunlight, drinking water, and forgiveness.

    I think perhaps you haven’t come across Lorraine Day’s main site - Ms Day is a fully fledged, frothing-at-the-mouth,
    Bible-thumping Christian - have a look for yourself.

    http://www.goodnewsaboutgod.com


    Isn’t it ironic when those who wax lyrical about the love of God spew such poison and hatred.


    She’s actually quite a piece of work … she’s

    Homophobic
    http://www.hope-of-israel.org/aids.htm

    A purveyor of anti Semitic hoaxes
    http://www.germanvictims.com/2016/10...-lorraine-day/

    A holocaust denier
    https://respectfulinsolence.com/2007...-woo-and-anti/

    A racist
    http://www.germanvictims.com/2016/10...-lorraine-day/

    An ignorant, raving loon
    http://americanholocaustcoming.blogs...nd-future.html

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  7. #19
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    Quote Originally posted by KeepTrying View Post
    I don't know what the Talmud says, and if I were to try to pull it up on the internet, I don't know how to evaluate the website posting it.
    It’s really very easy, KT ...

    Look for sites by practitioners and scholars of Talmud.
    Steer clear of all those white supremacist, Christian identity, neo-Nazi hate sites.
    Be mindful of bias, spin and propaganda.


    Here you go for starters:

    https://archive.org/stream/TheTalmud...almud_djvu.txt
    http://www.angelfire.com/mt/talmud/whatis.html
    http://talmud.faithweb.com/
    https://www.myjewishlearning.com/?s=talmud
    http://www.sacred-texts.com/index.htm

    Let us know how you get on.


    Quote Originally posted by KeepTrying View Post
    What does the Talmud say?
    How long have you got?

    Talmud is a complication of Jewish oral law that was written in Aramaic and Hebrew in the 2nd century.
    The print version is over 6,200 pages long - it’s putting it mildly to say that it’s not an easily accessible work:
    Talmudic scholars need to know Hebrew and Aramaic in order to read from the original material, understand
    who is writing each comment and the context in which it was written, navigate the layout of the pages and
    the lack of commas and question marks, and have some understanding of how to construct a legal argument.

    The internet is full of quotations from the Talmud that are mistranslated, placed out of context and
    frequently fabricated in order to misrepresent and demonise Judaism. The Talmud is a mass of arguments
    and debates that in the end, are all rejected - there are hypotheticals, reductios ad absurdum, ones with
    limited scope (in that they relate to very specific circumstances), and sometimes ones that are just wrong!

    That's why it needs to be studied in context; isolated excerpts will lead you astray


    How about sitting down and reading a translation for yourself?
    Then - and only then - will you have a better idea of what is and isn’t written. As ever, go to the source.

    Here is one translation for you:
    https://www.sefaria.org/Berakhot.2a.1?lang=bi

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    Trump has taken to calling Chuck Todd 'sleepy eyes'. This is apparently a slur used against jews. Does Trump do this on purpose? Why the dog whistles?

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    Quote Originally posted by tarka the duck View Post
    As ever, go to the source.
    The source, apparently, (according to Wikipedia), is over 6,000 pages long, contains teachings and opinions of thousands of rabbis, and has six translations into English.

    My opening post contained a hopeless question.

    I stated in another thread that in my opinion, God doesn't have a religion.

    And as far as Dr. Day's message about cancer treatment and how she recovered, what I take away from it is that doctors don't know how to treat cancer and the way she did it was to give her body what it needs to thrive, which includes attitude toward our fellow humans.

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  13. #22
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    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    Trump has taken to calling Chuck Todd 'sleepy eyes'. This is apparently a slur used against jews. Does Trump do this on purpose? Why the dog whistles?
    Utterly unbelievable.

    It comes from a list of criteria used by Nazi secret police to determine who might be Jewish, and includes
    traits such as a widow’s peak, dark curly hair, attached earlobes, weak or pointed chins,
    thick lips with a commonly protruding lower lip, head shape including a low sloped forehead and high flat
    back of skull, and thick eyelids giving a wary expression of “sleepy, untrustworthy eyes.”

    I suppose that, growing up with a father who was arrested at a KKK rally, didn't help.

    I wonder if orange skin and hair resembling a baboon that's been through the tumble drier signifies anything

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    Quote Originally posted by KeepTrying View Post
    The source, apparently, (according to Wikipedia), is over 6,000 pages long, contains teachings and opinions of thousands of rabbis, and has six translations into English.

    My opening post contained a hopeless question.

    That was precisely my point, KT. The Talmud is massive, complex, incomprehensible,
    challenging, studious … It would take you over 7 years to read it at the rate of one text a day.

    It covers topics as disparate as trapping rodents and architecture and Jewish scholars devote their lives
    to studying it and discussing it. It’s basically a record of conversations, debates and disagreements,
    along with stories and jokes.

    As one scholar put it, Talmud has “all the imperfections, the trivialities, the multiplicity of voices,
    the wild associations - everything that characterises human conversation."

    So to make it accessible, we need to rely on reliable sources who translate and interpret and explain.

    And Lorraine Day is not a reliable source (for reasons stated by her on her website ).


    Quote Originally posted by KeepTrying View Post
    And as far as Dr. Day's message about cancer treatment and how she recovered, what I take away from it is that doctors don't know how to treat cancer and the way she did it was to give her body what it needs to thrive, which includes attitude toward our fellow humans.
    You started a thread about the Talmud, with a claim from Lorraine Day that the Talmud states Jewish doctors
    are not allowed to treat non-Jewish patients (although she doesn’t explain how the Arabs who make up 20%
    of the population of Israel manage to get medical care).

    I don’t understand why you are repeatedly bringing up Lorraine Day’s claims about her recovery from cancer: how is
    that relevant to a discussion about the Talmud?

    Her religious mania, on the other hand, is very relevant.

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    Quote Originally posted by tarka the duck View Post
    Utterly unbelievable.

    It comes from a list of criteria used by Nazi secret police to determine who might be Jewish, and includes
    traits such as a widow’s peak, dark curly hair, attached earlobes, weak or pointed chins,
    thick lips with a commonly protruding lower lip, head shape including a low sloped forehead and high flat
    back of skull, and thick eyelids giving a wary expression of “sleepy, untrustworthy eyes.”

    I suppose that, growing up with a father who was arrested at a KKK rally, didn't help.

    I wonder if orange skin and hair resembling a baboon that's been through the tumble drier signifies anything
    I think anything fitting that description just might BE a baboon.
    "We are one thought away from changing the world!"

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    Senior Member tarka the duck's Avatar
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    To Keep Trying:

    In case you’re still labouring under the misconception that Lorraine Day knows anything at all about the Talmud,
    you might like to read up on a concept that is central to Judaism. It’s called “Tikkun Olam” = Repair the World.
    This is an aspiration to behave constructively and beneficially, with acts of kindness to heal the world.
    It’s synonymous with social responsibility and the pursuit of justice, with the teaching that the sole moral obligation
    of humankind is the improvement of the welfare of all people.


    Another principle that’s relevant to refuting Lorraine’s claims is “Pikuach Nefesh” .
    This is the belief that the preservation of human life takes precedence over all the other commandments in Judaism.

    Jacob Aronson describes it simply: “In spite of the virtue of observing a fast on the Sabbath, it is not virtuous
    to observe laws at the risk of life. Such conduct is regarded as foolish, even as sinful. The Sages described
    this stubbornness as a ‘piety of madness.’”

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    Quote Originally posted by tarka the duck View Post
    In case you’re still labouring under the misconception that Lorraine Day knows anything at all about the Talmud,
    you might like to read up on a concept that is central to Judaism.
    Frankly, I've moved on to other things at this point in time.

    I don't care about Judaism, or Christianity, or Islam or any religion.

    I've put religion behind me.

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    You might be focused on Zionism, Keep Trying, but you can’t remove religion from the discussion. It’s inextricably tied in.

    Without Torah there is no Talmud.

    Without Judaism there is no Zionism, even if the drive to found an Isreali nation was spearheaded by the English and Germans.

    You can’t talk about your hand without discussing your fingers.

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  25. #28
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    Quote Originally posted by KeepTrying View Post
    Frankly, I've moved on to other things at this point in time.

    I don't care about Judaism, or Christianity, or Islam or any religion.

    I've put religion behind me.
    wow, you did all that in 2 weeks. I bow to your magnificence.
    "We are one thought away from changing the world!"

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    Quote Originally posted by KeepTrying View Post
    Frankly, I've moved on to other things at this point in time.
    That’s really great, KT. I’m so glad you’ve seen through the lies presented in your OP.

    Quote Originally posted by KeepTrying View Post
    I don't care about Judaism, or Christianity, or Islam or any religion.
    It’s about far more than your own personal belief system.

    Quote Originally posted by KeepTrying View Post
    I've put religion behind me.
    Oh, me too .

    That’s why I consider religious zealots like Lorraine Day to be so utterly pathetic: the way in which they
    - in the name of righteousness - project their enmity and loathing of other human beings by spinning
    a web of deliberate iles and deceit is dangerous and divisive, and can never achieve a healthy outcome.

    Unfortunately, if history teaches us anything, it’s that fanning hatred is far easier than extinguishing it.

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    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    Without Judaism there is no Zionism . . .
    There is if you focus on actions and racism rather than religious teachings and organized religion.

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