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Thread: Bills Pain Body Thread, All Welcome

  1. #226
    Administrator Aragorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Sammy View Post
    Feel free to move the above posts to the smorgasbord thread... I would like it if you did.
    I'm not going to be moving them because then that would break the flow of the communication, given that excerpts from those posts are on-topic. However, I have copied over posts #220 through #224 to your smorgasbord.
    = DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR =

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  3. #227
    Junior Member Silly Wabbit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by giovonni View Post
    Welcome Silly Wabbit ...


    Ah ... Denise-Dizi !

    Why not use your PA avatar name here as well?
    Thank You, and everyone else for the wonderful welcome..

    I suppose I just thought it would be fun to create another "User Name".. I didn't give it much thought honestly. There is a funny story behind that actually.

    When I first tried to log in, I thought I would be "Creative".. I chose "Innocence Lost"..Thinking that I had surely fallen into a "rabbit hole", and that would be a great nickname.. I added my 2nd email address, so that I wouldn't get any spam notifications in my email box.. And when I went to go verify the email address was mine? I couldn't remember my password... it had been over 2 years since I registered at Avalon.

    I was going to then just use the same name Denise-Dizi, but I thought it was so funny that I forgot my own password, I wrote "Silly Wabbit" instead. I did however, use my image so that everyone knew it was me. It was just a silly name I wrote because I was in a joking mood at the time... I may change it over to the same username.. But at the time I thought it was funny...

    I do want to address a question someone had about Auditing going on over at Avalon... I believe that they may have been given some misleading information. There was a gathering at the UfoMegaCon. Avalon had a 3 day gathering directly following that event, where I believe 22 members flew in to be able to meet each other.

    While we were there, there was a member there that does auditing for a living. They had once done auditing for the church of Scientology, but they have since left, and they now do this in a "Freelance" capacity. Because there had been some curiosity about what "Auditing" was? This gentlemen offered to give us a demonstration.

    The people that were "Audited" volunteered, and did so under their own free will, and the rest of the members were free to stay and watch or leave if they wished. No one was held their against their will.. I believe this may be what you are referring to, when you are suggesting that PA is "Auditing it's members".. I was at this gathering.. And this is the auditing that I believe that you are referring to.

    I do believe that any member of Avalon has been able to learn that there was some auditing being done. But I felt it important to clarify what that meant. So everyone knows the context in which this happened. Avalon is not randomly auditing people without their knowledge, in fact you must participate with the one doing the auditing for it to work.

    By the way, I did not see how auditing could benefit me in any way, but those that did have it done did seem to be impressed with the demonstration for themselves. It was interesting.
    Last edited by Silly Wabbit, 4th July 2019 at 06:02.

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  5. #228
    Senior Member Falkland Islands The Reader's Avatar
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    Hi Silly Wabbit!

    Thank you for the clarification on the auditing, very helpful. Are you able to comment on the after-effects on the members that did have the auditing process? It looks like that when the members returned to PA after the meet-up, there seems to have been quite a bit of negativity swirling abound and around, some members even have accounts retired or whatever the correct euphemism is.

    Was it good fun at the meet-up? What was your overall take away from it? I suppose people are people are people are people, whenever and wherever we may be from.

    Thanks for your ensight.

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  7. #229
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    I don't begrudge anyone donations. I think donations and selling online is healthy. I can't stand it when people get sniffy about money changing hands. International websites cost a lot to run, as we all know. I have often wondered myself what I would do if I was in Bill's position. What I do mind is if donations are linked to content. Especially delusional faux-rightism. i.e. are certain posters allowed to have the run of the site and continually test limits because they have donated? I think that's almost definitely the case...

    Is it legal? Probably. Would I want to contribute to a site like that? Not really. I don't have much energy or inclination to discuss this now, or ever, but that's how I feel.
    Last edited by Daozen, 4th July 2019 at 15:08.
    Six Doctors For A Medical Revolution

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  9. #230
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    Hi SW, Thank you for this post. There are two things I would like to comment on that you covered in your post and I will use the Aragorn method.

    Quote Originally posted by Silly Wabbit View Post
    By the way, I did not see how auditing could benefit me in any way, but those that did have it done did seem to be impressed with the demonstration for themselves. It was interesting.
    I believe it was during 2015 I sought to explore the experience of auditing in a step-by-step fashion. Thus "the demo" was an important step. After having reached through various individuals who are part of the loose organization referred to as "the Free Org" I found myself in the home of a gentleman who obliged my request to meet. He was a long time "Free-Orger." His energy was wonderful and that alone raised my enthusiasm. We sat at a coffee table and he pulled out his equipment (an e-meter). He explained that by my proper holding of "the cans" as he called them, the e-meter would be able to detect changes emanating from "me" through my body. He explained the e-meter can detect when I would experience physical discomfort and he demonstrated this by pinching me on the arm whereby I observed the needle of the e-meter jumping far to the right.

    He then explained that the when we experience psychic pain (emotional, etc.) that the e-meter is able to detect this as well. And so what an auditor does is to gently (or sometimes maybe not so gently - when trust between the one being audited (the client) and the auditor is more established) ask questions covering various areas of one's life experiences where the auditor is able to identify specific areas that bring up the emotional (psychic) pain held in the overall psyche of the client. The auditor then will work with the client whereby the client can achieve freedom from the pain. The word the auditor used for a specific painful memory or grouping of connected memories is "an engram." Thus the goal of the auditor is to assist the client in deceiving resolution and thus elimination of various "engrams."

    And the ultimate goal is for the client to have achieved full relief, permanent relief from all engrams whereby the client would be deemed to be "clear." Once "clear" the client would have the opportunity to start climbing the "OT ladder" (my term) where there are various grade levels like OT1, OT2, OT3, etc. Years ago I read that the highest completed OT level was OT7. I also read that OT8 was in the works by LRH when he died. I also recall reading OT8 was completed but I am unsure if that information meant that LRH had completed OT8 (thus conflicting with the other information) or that someone else (or a group) completed OT8.

    OT stands for "Operating Thetan." And from my limited understanding, "thetan" refers to that aspect of one's being which is "their individuated spirit" which, based on what I gathered from my studies is the actual being from the point of view that a.) the body and b.) that which is the continuation of physical life through our DNA (Scientology refers to this as "the genetic entity") cause a confusion in that they essentially have a "mind" of their own. And that this sets up a three-way sense of separateness due to each of the three operating "not on the same page" with the understanding that if the "thetan" achieves "clear" the thetan experiences a unity of sorts centered and operated freely by the thetan where conflict no longer occurs at the level of the genetic entity or the body.

    The above summarizes as best I can as to the understanding of Scientology and what its all about. My words may lead a true scientologist to conclude I have some of it wrong, and I may, but I shared what I honestly believe is what its all about.

    Quote Originally posted by Silly Wabbit View Post
    But I felt it important to clarify what that meant. So everyone knows the context in which this happened. Avalon is not randomly auditing people without their knowledge, in fact you must participate with the one doing the auditing for it to work.
    I only quoted the end of the first section but would like the reader to understand that I am actually referring to the entire section with regards to the following.

    What SW wrote is significantly different than what was written by the member who stated "what they had heard." I don't know SW but based on my own experience with PA as to any "touching" of Scientology and my reasonably involved experience with PA, I make odds all but 100% certain, what SW shared is the actual truth.

    And so why I have jumped on this is it shows (again... and again and again and again), the truly destructive habit so many of this community engage in whereby what was once an actual truth runs through the "he said/she said rumor mill" and ends up being completely and entirely different as to its implications once spat out the other side. This is precisely a primary reason why I will never engage in PMs with anyone from this community other than the single administrator of this forum (or any other forum I participate). Its just too dangerous. There are other reasons as well and some just as important. But I was really glad to read SWs post because it is such a great example of how this happens.

    Why can we not all post all and everything straight up in the forum? This is a serious question I am asking. I have what I would put all the money in the world on to be the correct, accurate, precise answer.

    Let's see if any others come up with this same answer.

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    Quote Originally posted by The Reader View Post
    Hi Silly Wabbit!

    Thank you for the clarification on the auditing, very helpful. Are you able to comment on the after-effects on the members that did have the auditing process? It looks like that when the members returned to PA after the meet-up, there seems to have been quite a bit of negativity swirling abound and around, some members even have accounts retired or whatever the correct euphemism is.

    Was it good fun at the meet-up? What was your overall take away from it? I suppose people are people are people are people, whenever and wherever we may be from.

    Thanks for your ensight.
    Exactly... I "heard" the same thing and it came from many directions. All via "back-channel" communications.

    Why then can't these folks simply post about it on the open forum? What is it about these forums where this type of dynamic occurs and repeats itself? Why would we ever be surprised when a schism arises?

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  13. #232
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    Quote Originally posted by Daozen View Post
    What I do mind is if donations are linked to content. Especially delusional faux-rightism. i.e. are certain posters allowed to have the run of the site and continually test limits. because they have donated? I think that's almost definitely the case...
    Note I am an independent, heavily libertarian with a slight lean left. I state that because of the question I want to ask.

    Would your opinion equally apply to [my words to follow]

    ...delusional faux-leftism. i.e. are certain posters allowed to have the run of the site and continually test limits. because they have donated?
    All I am hoping to point out is that if we continually bash "left" or "right" in the form it now constantly occurs on so many of these forums, aren't we engaging in the very activity those who are actually manipulating the strings tied to left/right/liberal/conservative want us to do?

    For example, a poster may also be passionate about one "side" or the "other" to the point their passion is experienced by others as fanaticism. Yet that very same poster may have some fantastic things to say [having nothing to do with politics or at least directly] and yet, due to their unfettered fanaticism, they reduce or eliminate a portion of readers who, in some cases, could benefit the most from their words.

    What baffles me the most is that (and perhaps this a huge mistake on my part) but I expect more from myself in this regard (and thus had/have hopes for the community at large) because most of us have done the research and know this is what is actually happening from above. In other (and shorter) words, we should all know better. At least this is the lesson I have learned over the last few years about my own self-responsible entrapment into the silliness of political, emotionally charged argument.

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  15. #233
    Super Moderator United States Dreamtimer's Avatar
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    In other (and shorter) words, we should all know better.


    I wonder the same thing about people I know and interact with in person. They should know better and yet they fall into the same traps. It's a combination of ego and denial. People really can't stand admitting they are wrong.

    And yet, that is crucial. Somewhere along the line folks decided it was weak.

    It's not. It takes great strength to admit being wrong.

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  17. #234
    Administrator Aragorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Daozen View Post
    I don't begrudge anyone donations. I think donations and selling online is healthy. I can't stand it when people get sniffy about donations. International websites cost a lot to run, as we all know. I have often wondered myself what I would do if I was in Bill's position. What I do mind is if donations are linked to content. Especially delusional faux-rightism. i.e. are certain posters allowed to have the run of the site and continually test limits. because they have donated? I think that's almost definitely the case...

    Is it legal? Probably. Would I want to contribute to a site like that? Not really. I don't have much energy or inclination to discuss this now, or ever, but that's how I feel.
    Well, there are a lot of unknowns in that equation. First of all, to the best of my knowledge, Bill Ryan doesn't publish the names of the members who donate to Project Avalon ─ Malc doesn't do that over here at The One Truth either. By consequence, we do not know whether the members who donate to Project Avalon would also be the same members as who propagate the right-wing bigotry over there.

    Secondly, I doubt that Bill would be selling out to certain members and their opinions because of their donations. I think Bill's got a lot more integrity than that, and furthermore, his moderators also have a say in what will be allowed to appear at Project Avalon and what not. And I know that Bill's not happy with the co-opting of the alternative community by the US American "alt-right". He has made his sentiments in that regard public on more than one occasion already.

    However, in my humble opinion, Bill and his staff have waited too long before intervening. It was the coup d'état perpetrated by Jean-Marie, Kristin and Sierra that woke the Project Avalon mod room up to what was going on, but in my humble opinion, some members like "A Voice from the Mountains" ─ alias our former super moderator bsbray, who is banned from The One Truth for life ─ should have already been kicked off of Project Avalon a long time ago for relentlessly propagandizing and for their gaslighting and bullying of other members.

    That US-centric "alt-right" nonsense is a big mental disease, and its infestation of Project Avalon is still not completely a thing of the past yet ─ which is no surprise, because many of Project Avalon's members are US Americans, and this stuff has become ingrained in US American culture through decades of deliberate indoctrination. Innocent children are already being taught to swear allegiance to the American flag in kindergarten and elementary school ─ this is factual. Hollywood tells all US Americans that they're heroes who bring democracy to the rest of the world, and who save the planet from takeovers by evil aliens. And the heroes are always (former or active) US Marines, because the US Marines are an elite corps ─ and for that matter, one that by law has been designed to exclusively operate outside of the borders of the US American mainland.

    When Trump rose to power, this brainwashing set in again with many of the so-called alternative community's residents, not in the very least because Trump and his campaign supporters started declaring their political adversaries as being the so-called Deep State™. That certainly got the attention of the so-called alternative community. All US Democrats are now baby-eating satanic pedophiles, and so on. And you'd be surprised how many people still believe that to be true.

    I am going to quote a post from Project Avalon moderator Dennis Leahy below ─ I think it's on a members-only thread, but there is nothing in Dennis' post that would be confidential, and I think it deserves public attention, because it's an excellent post.





    Quote Originally posted by Dennis Leahy View Post
    Allow me to pose some questions:

    (hypothetical premise) A new US government insider/whistleblower has come forward. The whistleblower calls himself "R." R starts "dropping" tidbits of information as well as proof that he is indeed an insider, by correctly predicting some things. R tells us that the US political party, the Republicans, is the "Deep State." R states that the Republicans have a Republican pedophile network. R further expounds that Hillary Clinton is a hero in disguise, or rather THEE hero we've all been waiting for. She is going to "drain the swamp", getting rid of all the Republicans (who R says is the Deep State.) R also lets us know that Hillary Clinton is aligned with the Zionist agenda, but assures us that this is not a contradiction.

    So, what do we Avalonians do with this "information" in the R drops?

    One possibility is to say, "anything is possible", and spend time (maybe even years, and tens of thousands of man-hours of research) looking into the possibility that R may be 100% legitimate and truthful, that Clinton really is on the side of humanity, and our hero. Clinton is not associated with or tied to any known bad guys. R is not a psyop.

    One possibility would be to stop immediately and say, "but we already knew for a fact - by her actions - that Hillary Clinton is certainly not a 'good guy', so R must be a propaganda campaign." We also already figured out, decades ago, that Zionism is an evil and selfish ideology, clearly making Zionists among the really 'bad guys' on the planet. Clinton is associated with and tied to known bad guys. R is a psyop.

    So, let's look past Q, and R, and ask ourselves: how in the hell could we possibly allow ourselves to believe that known bad guys are good guys? How can our discernment be so far out of whack that we would dig through R drops and find something real or true, and conflate that to equal that Clinton is not just one of the good guys, but the leader of the good guys? How could we ever be so gullible as to accept that Clinton has humanity's best interests at heart? How could we give her a pass on the verifiable history of the evil actions taken by Clinton?

    There is only one gigantic financial/corporate network on Earth. Global in scope. Globalists by network. Please see this post, for a diagram/fingerprint of the network. Q and R are trying to convince us that their hero, although tied to and controlled by this network, is somehow a good guy. Note that the USA trillion dollar budget is about 2/3rds military industrial complex corporations, and (I can't think of an exception), all of the giant multinational corporations are evil to the core. The more deeply tied to this network, the more demonstrably evil an individual is. Shouldn't our discernment kick in at this point?




    This US-centric party-political madness and cultural/national narcissism must be brought to an end, because it has no place among a subset of the population that regards itself as being Awake & Aware™.
    = DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR =

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  19. #235
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    Is it possible that someone might venture to guess at this?

    Quote Originally posted by Sammy View Post
    Why can we not all post all and everything straight up in the forum? This is a serious question I am asking. I have what I would put all the money in the world on to be the correct, accurate, precise answer.

    Let's see if any others come up with this same answer.

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  21. #236
    Moderator Wind's Avatar
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    I fully agree with that, Aragorn.

    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post


    I wonder the same thing about people I know and interact with in person. They should know better and yet they fall into the same traps. It's a combination of ego and denial. People really can't stand admitting they are wrong.

    And yet, that is crucial. Somewhere along the line folks decided it was weak.

    It's not. It takes great strength to admit being wrong.

    That is true, it takes courage and humility to admit that you're wrong. It's healing too, but the ego doesn't like that as it diminishes it's power and makes you feel less powerful or worthy in the eyes of others, which is untrue of course. There's a lot of cognitive dissonance at play and it's also absolutely true that all of us have our own biases. Some of us are just more aware of those things and of our shortcomings too and we have the self-analysis skills and courage to admit that.

    I don't know if it's scary, but at times it's hugely disappointing to see that the alternative community is still not that much different from the "normies", people in this community can be just as deluded if not even more. Tribalism and "competition"-mentality in society should be a thing of the past and yet it still so prevalent, very much in this alternative community too. That is the domain of the ego, that's where all dramas, arguments, conflicts and wars ultimately come from. The illusion of being separate and disliking and hating "the others" because they don't seem to be thinking as you do. They're still humans just as you are, they might be just very unconscious. In fact many people today are so unconscious that they don't even know that they are totally swept away by maya, the illusion. They don't know who or what they really are.

    Many people think they're "awake", but they're not actually that awake. They may be aware about the way how some things operate and how much we have been lied to, but they still can't see the forest for the trees. What does it even mean to be awake (or woke as the younger ones say now)? It's a journey to self-discovery and it's something that doesn't happen overnight. It takes years, decades and even lifetimes to become fully awake and understand what the hell this human condition is really about.

    How can people in this community not the see that the ruling class - the bastards that be want division in society and people are doing their work for them by getting into conflict with each other all the time! For example, what happened to Occupy Wall Street? Why is Gitmo still standing? Why only very few people seem to care about people like Julian Assange? Why do people still believe the lies that get them and their countries into endless wars over oil and cheer for that?

    The real problem of this planet, the "elite" will just be laughing on their way to the bank and meanwhile all the Joe Sixpacks and white & blue collar-people keep on slaving away in a land of confusion "thinking" that they are free while they are brainwashed. Divide et impera.
    Last edited by Wind, 4th July 2019 at 16:00.

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  23. #237
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    I have personally tried to do that many times, Sammy.

    And many times, people choose to re-interpret or mis-interpret my words.

    Words aren't exact or absolute.

    People need to want to listen, want to think, want to consider, want to discuss.

    When they don't, then misunderstandings occur.

    We can try to be as straightforward as possible, but there are challenges.

    That's my take. I hope I actually addressed you query.

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    Well. Everyone's entitled to their opinion. But facts come first, opinions later.

    - Turiya donated to Project Avalon, he admitted it on this board. He posted right wing propaganda and even harassed some members via PM.
    - Chip gave a "very generous" (Bills words IIRC) monthly donation and also heavily supported the Q info. Surprise.


    So those are the facts as I see them. I am not inclined to go digging around on this issue because I respect Bill's privacy. However, I also respect the feelings and hard work of thousands of members who have had their hard work co-opted, warped and trashed by delusional Trumpites.

    We don't know? Well, we could settle this by asking Bill. Have members A,B,C, and D donated to the site? He'd be well within his legal and moral rights to completely ignore the question, and he probably would. I wouldn't push it either.

    But it is not entirely accurate to say we don't know if donations match right wing content because;

    1) There are verifiable facts where donations match content that point to a hidden iceberg.
    2) Anyone could ask Bill that question.

    I have other things to do than discuss this issue, but I think it's better if any further discussion is 1) Fact not opinion based. 2) Succinct.

    Just my opinion.
    Last edited by Daozen, 4th July 2019 at 16:03.
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    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    I have personally tried to do that many times, Sammy.

    And many times, people choose to re-interpret or mis-interpret my words.

    Words aren't exact or absolute.

    People need to want to listen, want to think, want to consider, want to discuss.

    When they don't, then misunderstandings occur.

    We can try to be as straightforward as possible, but there are challenges.

    That's my take. I hope I actually addressed you query.
    I agree with the entire post.

    Regarding my own answer to my own question, this is pointed to in the above post.
    Last edited by Sammy, 4th July 2019 at 16:37.

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    Quote Originally posted by Daozen View Post
    Well. Everyone's entitled to their opinion. But facts come first, opinions later.

    - Turiya donated to Project Avalon, he admitted it on this board. He posted right wing propaganda and even harassed some members via PM.
    - Chip gave a "very generous" (Bills words IIRC) monthly donation and also heavily supported the Q info. Surprise.


    So those are the facts as I see them. I am not inclined to go digging around on this issue because I respect Bill's privacy. However, I also respect the feelings and hard work of thousands of members who have had their hard work co-opted, warped and trashed by delusional Trumpites.

    We don't know? Well, we could settle this by asking Bill. Have members A,B,C, and D donated to the site? He'd be well within his legal and moral rights to completely ignore the question, and he probably would. I wouldn't push it either.

    But it is not entirely accurate to say we don't know if donations match right wing content because;

    1) There are verifiable facts where donations match content that point to a hidden iceberg.
    2) Anyone could ask Bill that question.

    I have other things to do than discuss this issue, but I think it's better if any further discussion is 1) Fact not opinion based. 2) Succinct.

    Just my opinion.
    Thanks for this post. In the early days leading up to the US Presidential election, I was heavily "anti-corruption" and this translated to "anything but Hillary." I also allowed myself to get pulled into the politics discussion and played the very role I criticize in a post above. So I surely had to have been perceived as a "Trumpite."

    I retired from PA without discovering "Q" and it feels like good fortune. I was a consistent donor (at a precise, not small but not very large) monthly sum when I was participating (and not in retirement). I did not know that donors made public statements about their donations but I take your word the ones you mentioned above stated that they were donors or that someone else who is credible stated such. I have now stated on a public forum that I was a donor at PA and thus would have no just cause to take issue if someone repeated that.

    This reply (once again) hints at "that which lies at the heart" of my question.
    Last edited by Sammy, 4th July 2019 at 16:21.

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