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Thread: Bills Pain Body Thread, All Welcome

  1. #211
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    Quote Originally posted by Fred Steeves View Post
    Hi Denise,

    I still lurk over at The Project having been gone since 2013, so it's kind of like saying hi to someone you watch on t.v., or listen to on the radio, in that I know you but you don't know me. Kind of weird eh?

    Anyway nice to meet your acquaintance, and you should know straight off that problems with the parent site have to do with el capitan, and NOT, I repeat NOT, the general membership.

    Well, most of them anyway. :chrs




    It *can* be a creepy experience. I lived most of my life in, or very near a city called Clearwater in Florida, USA. In case you've never heard of it, it's the place that Hubbard literally used as his beach head for introducing Scientology in a physical location back in the mid 70's, as opposed to spreading it from their Flag Ships. It was almost like a slow motion invasion as they began to take over downtown
    by buying up old landmarks, and using them as the new headquarters. The locals were like who the fuck ARE these people dressed in snappy uniforms, and walking around like damn robots.

    Some of them are okay, but most are extremely creepy and very defensive in almost a military manner guarding their buildings, and interacting with "wogs". Now, the 70's were well before the infamous fracture and walk off with Captain Bill Robertson and such in the lead, splintering the religion into Free Zone and Ron's Org, so these are the very same people that BR loves to brag that are so much different than today's brand of Scientologist under Miscavige.

    My personal view anyway, but I digress.

    Bill is a very high up Scientologist, he eats breaths and shits the "religion". I can't exactly point to official Scientology ways of running the forum, other than side ally methods that are not readily noticeable. I think it's very subtle (usually!), even passive aggressive in nature. There is definately an angle to how he steers the Good Ship Avalon that we see the picture of so often.

    When I first really began to notice this was back in early '13 when I was the first and only front door greeter at the time, and along came Jiminii, who'm I refer to as Super Scientologist Jiminii. Jim took that place by storm spreading the gospel of Scientology (directly against forum rules!), and Bill gave him free reign despite objections. Anyone else would have been banned almost immediately, but not this guy.

    That's when I began to see the rotten underbelly there, and that in turn allowed me to start seeing more, which is why I resigned that position and was soon enough off the forum.

    Anyway, hope that answers at least part of your question in a side winding sort of way.
    Thanks, that's useful info.

    When I was 19 and still in college, I had to find a job to make some money. I had three interviews and was hired for all three jobs. Two of them were connected to scientology. They made me do an IQ test and a very intrusive personal questionnaire (I guess it may have been auditing). One of the jobs would have required me to start translating all of Ron Hubbard's work into Hungarian, even though they claimed to be a business consulting firm. I said no and accepted the one job offer that had nothing to do with scientology, despite the low pay. I haven't regretted it. Clearly, they were trying to pull me into Scientology's orbit and talked about what great plans they had for me, wanting to send me to the US for training and that sort of thing. People who could speak good English were extremely rare in Hungary in the 90s, so I guess that's why they had plans to groom me.

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  3. #212
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    What you say, Fred, is still creepy and I've watched/listened to all kinds of stuff re Scientology.

    I have often wondered how it is that a man can make something like PA his living. The Scientology connection helps it to make sense.

    They believe their work saves humanity.

    Speaking or working against the church is anathema. (The side orgs likely still have this aspect)

    Giving to the church is a requirement for any good member. Giving to the forum could be a sort of parallel for some folks.




    And side-winders get up difficult slopes quickly...



    0ne of my favorite kinds of snakes.

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  5. #213
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    Quote Originally posted by Silly Wabbit View Post
    Hello Giovonni,

    My name is Denise, and I am an Avalon member.. My "Confession"

    And I am happy to suggest that I am now also a TOT member... Truth is we can be members at both sites without getting stuck in the middle of some fist fight... I don't remember there being any questions upon registration, that asked my opinions of Avalon, Bill, or the community as a whole. And as such, that told me that I was welcome based upon who I was, not what someone else thought of who I might be.. And I do hope that you try to figure out who I am, before you slap a label on me personally...

    This is me, and I am glad to meet you..

    http://projectavalon.net/forum4/memb...67-Denise-Dizi

    I do hope that I can in some way change the view that you have of the members of Avalon.
    Welcome at The One Truth, Denise.







    Quote Originally posted by Sammy View Post
    Quote Originally posted by Aragorn View Post
    And of course, both Ilie and Paul have already left Project Avalon in the meantime, so there's a bit of a problem there, because Hervé, Tommy and Bill won't know what exactly Ilie and Paul changed without being able to compare that to a completely fresh vanilla installation of vBulletin 4.1.1, but the 4.x.x generation is already no longer available by now ─ vBulletin is now only available as a 5.x.x release anymore.
    This statement is significant. As time moves forward, to be stuck on 4.1.1 could become problematic. Especially if that prevents security fix implementations. It also means a feature freeze. Maybe they have the ability to do a full rollback. That would result in the loss of the customizations but at least then they can move forward with new releases when available.
    Well, vBulletin does provide patch-level updates, but I don't know how far they reach. So for instance, if you're running 4.2.1, then you can patch that up to 4.2.3 and it should remain fully compatible. But what I do not know is to what extent such a patch-level update will honor any customizations you've applied to the code since the initial installation. It might overwrite everything, or it might only overwrite those parts of the code that haven't been modified.

    This is specific to each and every software title that gets installed outside of a package manager. vBulletin runs on GNU/Linux (or other UNIX) systems, and GNU/Linux has a package manager for installing and/or removing software ─ the package manager keeps track of every individual software package installed on the system ─ but vBulletin is third-party software that comes with its own installation procedure, outside of the package manager's scope. By consequence, the update/upgrade procedure is also specific to vBulletin itself, and so I have no idea how it works.





    Quote Originally posted by Daozen View Post
    [...]

    I also wondered what unix/linux commands a conspiracy board sysadmin might run in the course of a month. I know a little of top, htop, ps ax, stat and ps aux... but not much else. Over the next two years I will teach myself some basic sysadmin. Some pointers might be useful, if you had time. I can easily google "basic sysadmin commands", but running a conspiracy board may a few specific difficulties that normal sysadmins might not encounter.
    Oh, well, to be honest, I have so far never had to access any command-line prompt in my now four years of being the administrator of The One Truth ─ or that is to say, I have not had to use any command-line tools on the server, because I am and have already for 20+ years exclusively been running GNU/Linux on my own workstations, and I do very often use the command line here.

    But with regard to the management of the server, if you need to do anything specific with regard to traffic analysis, managing the server's email, managing the DNS entries, and the likes, you commonly do this by way of a web-based control panel ─ usually cPanel, but there are others, and it all depends on who your domain hosting company is. So it's all managed from within a web browser, over an encrypted connection.

    Another thing with regard to UNIX servers ─ which includes GNU/Linux, the various BSD-based systems and OpenIndiana ─ is that once you've set up the system for a production role, almost everything is automated by way of a cron daemon of some sorts, which periodically runs scripts that do things like rotate the logs, check file integrity, index and update the file search database, et al. It really is very low-maintenance.

    What I do recommend you would study, if you're interested in this stuff, is how to use the command line effectively, and how to write shell scripts. In GNU/Linux, the shell is most often GNU Bash, but there are others as well, such as the Z Shell, the C Shell and the Public Domain Korn Shell. They all have their specific syntax and properties, but with the exception of the C Shell, all others are pretty much compatible with the original Bourne Shell, so if you write your scripts as Bourne Shell scripts only, then they will be portable across all of those other shells.

    This here is a very good starters tutorial on how to use the shell and write scripts.

    Quote Originally posted by Daozen View Post
    Paul ran the server from his house, right? That is impressive, if I'm correct. It must take some real skill to keep a board like that running.
    No, that's not correct. Paul was the senior administrator at Project Avalon, and of course, he was interfacing with the server from within his own home, but that's quite common nowadays ─ I do that too. The Project Avalon server itself is however hosted at a data center.

    First and foremost, if you're going to be running a server out of your own home, then that's going to become incredibly costly, because you'll need a top-of-the-line internet connection with guaranteed quality-of-service, you need top-of-the-line enterprise-grade hardware (including spare parts), you need a guaranteed 24/7 uptime on account of electricity, with backup generators, you need a decent hardware firewall, et al, and the server should be placed somewhere where nobody's smoking, where there are no cats or dogs around, and where it can remain at a constant low temperature.

    Data centers offer all of the above at a much smaller cost. So you hire either a virtual private server, or a dedicated server, or you supply a server of your own, and then that gets mounted into a rack in a large, air-conditioned room, with secure access, and with the hardware constantly monitored. There will also be periodic (and automated) backups, stored on an external machine. Everything is on large uninterruptible power supplies, which themselves are backed up by diesel-powered generators. You simply cannot provide for all of that inside your own home for the same amount of money.

    Trust me, I've run an IRC network with a couple of other people for about seven to eight years, the last three or four years of which we were attempting to host it ourselves because we thought it would have been cheaper. Well, not so, despite all of our equipment being second-hand (but enterprise-grade). It was horribly expensive, and when stuff breaks down, you yourself have to make sure that you replace the failed components with new ones, and as soon as possible.

    So the Project Avalon server actually resides in one of those specialized data centers, and so does the server of The One Truth ─ they're at different data centers, though.
    = DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR =

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  7. #214
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    Quote Originally posted by Silly Wabbit View Post
    Hello Giovonni,

    My name is Denise, and I am an Avalon member.. My "Confession"

    And I am happy to suggest that I am now also a TOT member... Truth is we can be members at both sites without getting stuck in the middle of some fist fight... I don't remember there being any questions upon registration, that asked my opinions of Avalon, Bill, or the community as a whole. And as such, that told me that I was welcome based upon who I was, not what someone else thought of who I might be.. And I do hope that you try to figure out who I am, before you slap a label on me personally...

    This is me, and I am glad to meet you..

    http://projectavalon.net/forum4/memb...67-Denise-Dizi

    I do hope that I can in some way change the view that you have of the members of Avalon.
    Glad to see you here. Welcome.


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  9. #215
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    Thanks for that write up Aragorn, it is most useful. I will reply more in depth when I have more time, as you have brought up many interesting points. The Unix info basically gives me a roadmap for the next 2 years study, cheers. I had a feeling I might be wrong about Paul running the server from his house. I heard running servers from home could be a pain.

    Zooming out (ignoring localized board politics for now) I feel there may be many esoterically inclined people who want to get into technology/software but feel it's too difficult for them. Maybe talking about server work would show them it's possible for anyone to learn these skills, with a couple of years (or more) dedication. Talking about Unix/Linux in the context of server management by yourself, and maybe Paul... might be a good, constructive way to salvage something useful from our time spent on other boards. Real life case studies are inspiring, believable, and engaging. Some tutorials (especially in the Linux world) can be a little dry for beginners, so colorful stories are interesting.

    I'm not sure what linux distro I was running. I used Cloud9 for 4-5 years, so whatever they had. Ubuntu 14.04 LTS x64 I guess. I don't know any deeper than that. I also used digital ocean a couple of times. As I have ran small open source projects in the past, I always choose the plainest, most vanilla, widely distributed stack I can find, to aid with onboarding. I try not to customize anything at all if I can help it. IIRC I had some compatibility issues with different versions of Ubuntu a couple of years back. 14.04 something vs 16.04. Small issues like that can sometimes discourage otherwise promising programmers.

    If you feel this conversation needs to be snipped out or moved please go ahead. But I think it could be healing on several levels. I guess non-interested people could skim any tech-oriented posts. I know there's a lot of brainpower in these parts, so who knows what lurker may benefit from these posts?
    Six Doctors For A Medical Revolution

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  11. #216
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    Quote Originally posted by Daozen View Post
    Thanks for that write up Aragorn, it is most useful. I will reply more in depth when I have more time, as you have brought up many interesting points. The Unix info basically gives me a roadmap for the next 2 years study, cheers. I had a feeling I might be wrong about Paul running the server from his house. I heard running servers from home could be a pain.

    Zooming out (ignoring localized board politics for now) I feel there may be many esoterically inclined people who want to get into technology/software but feel it's too difficult for them. Maybe talking about server work would show them it's possible for anyone to learn these skills, with a couple of years (or more) dedication. Talking about Unix/Linux in the context of server management by yourself, and maybe Paul... might be a good, constructive way to salvage something useful from our time spent on other boards. Real life case studies are inspiring, believable, and engaging. Some tutorials (especially in the Linux world) can be a little dry for beginners, so colorful stories are interesting.

    I'm not sure what linux distro I was running. I used Cloud9 for 4-5 years, so whatever they had. Ubuntu 14.04 LTS x64 I guess. I don't know any deeper than that. I also used digital ocean a couple of times. As I have ran small open source projects in the past, I always choose the plainest, most vanilla, widely distributed stack I can find, to aid with onboarding. I try not to customize anything at all if I can help it. IIRC I had some compatibility issues with different versions of Ubuntu a couple of years back. 14.04 something vs 16.04. Small issues like that can sometimes discourage otherwise promising programmers.

    If you feel this conversation needs to be snipped out or moved please go ahead. But I think it could be healing on several levels. I guess non-interested people could skim any tech-oriented posts. I know there's a lot of brainpower in these parts, so who knows what lurker may benefit from these posts?
    In order not to break continuity, I will leave the posts on this thread, but I will also copy them over to an existing GNU/Linux thread ─ and I suggest we carry on the techie conversation over there, so that this thread may remain on-topic, insomuch as possible.


    = DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR =

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  13. #217
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    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    What you say, Fred, is still creepy and I've watched/listened to all kinds of stuff re Scientology.

    I have often wondered how it is that a man can make something like PA his living. The Scientology connection helps it to make sense.

    They believe their work saves humanity.

    Speaking or working against the church is anathema. (The side orgs likely still have this aspect)

    Giving to the church is a requirement for any good member. Giving to the forum could be a sort of parallel for some folks.




    And side-winders get up difficult slopes quickly...



    0ne of my favorite kinds of snakes.
    I'm personally less bothered by BR making money off PA, after all a man's gotta live and if you're doing this professionally and you have no other income, you've got to make money somehow. The scientology part does bother me though, but I don't know enough about the man or PA in general to determine how big of a problem that is. The face they show towards the outside world is that it barely matters and they've just taken the good parts of scientology without all the bad, negative stuff associated with the official church. I hope that's true, but it somehow seems unlikely.

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  15. #218
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    Quote Originally posted by Chris View Post
    I'm personally less bothered by BR making money off PA, after all a man's gotta live and if you're doing this professionally and you have no other income, you've got to make money somehow. The scientology part does bother me though, but I don't know enough about the man or PA in general to determine how big of a problem that is. The face they show towards the outside world is that it barely matters and they've just taken the good parts of scientology without all the bad, negative stuff associated with the official church. I hope that's true, but it somehow seems unlikely.
    I don't know how or where Bill Ryan gets his money. A man's got to live, and Bill is quite known for living a very humble and frugal lifestyle. Kerry Cassidy has even stated a couple of times that when she and Bill were together in the UK, Bill drove a car so old that Kerry thought it was going to fall apart any minute. And back when Bill was still married to Christine, their house looked the way it did ─ all neat and organized ─ because that was Christine's artistic and energetic expression, but I've heard from several people who met them both that if you gave Bill a simple wooden log to sit on, then that was all fine by him, so long as he had a place to sit. He's also always dressing in casual but comfortable clothing, rather than in any formal attire.

    I have that in common with him, because I hate having to wear a suit and tie ─ it makes me feel like I'm suffocating and like I'm wearing a straitjacket. I always wear military-style cargo pants ─ usually in camouflage colors, albeit that not all of them are ─ and loose pullovers or T-shirts, depending on the weather, and comfortable shoes with thick rubber soles. First of all, it's comfortable to wear, secondly, it's practical ─ I like (and use) the extra pockets on the thighs of my pants ─ and thirdly, I think it looks cool.

    As for the subject of Scientology, Bill is not a member of the actual Church of Scientology. I don't know to what extent Ron's Org or Free Zone would be harmful organizations, but I see Bill's adherence to Scientology as merely his own metaphysical conviction, and I have so far not seen him force Scientology upon anyone. It's his personal conviction as a human being on this planet, and as far as I'm concerned, he's as much entitled to his beliefs as anyone else.
    = DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR =

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    Regarding Bill and PA/donations

    The way I look at it all is that everybody's life path unfolds in part by planning but also as a result of less than predictable (and sometimes unpredictable) life. It appears to me the life circumstances Bill found himself facing resulted in his ownership of the PA forum. PA is a forum capable of generating donations (income) which Bill, as owner, can do with as he wishes.

    If some or all of that income is used for personal support (the means to maintaining a life, a body and its basic needs) such that Bill can maintain a lifestyle whereby he can do (which requires time) what he feels is needed and best for the PA forum, which includes (IMO) caring for himself in ways he can fuel his spirit, allow for care for his soul, provide him the ability to focus on all the things he wants to and needs to for his spiritual maintenance... I don't begrudge Bill for any of that.

    And I think most folks who have provided donations know much of this and share a similar view.
    Last edited by Sammy, 3rd July 2019 at 14:57.

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    I have had a reasonably extensive relationship with Bill off and on for several years. Never, once, did Bill bring Scientology into our conversations and never was there any hint of auditing as something PA or Bill would offer to a member. I did experience a period of time where, via my own curiosity, I reached out to Herve and for awhile we PM'd back and forth where he attempted (and succeeded) in assisting me in understanding the core views of Scientology...

    I might call it "the metaphysical structure" of who/what we are in this world where Herve suggested the view far preceded LRH and his creation of Scientology and by way of Herve's recommendation, I obtained a book entitled Secrets of the Gypsies. Clearly, the core view (and premise upon which Scientology appears to rest) far pre-dates Scientology. Later I searched the Free-Org for a local auditor and engaged in a series of these procedures. I have nothing negative to say about auditing but I did not continue with the auditing for two reasons - one because I enjoy (and prefer) the way that Life/life, I/itself is essentially my "e-meter"... if I would only pay attention to the readings but most importantly, if I properly interpret the readings. The other reason was the cost... auditing can be quite expensive and there are many, many different auditing pathways available.
    Last edited by Sammy, 3rd July 2019 at 16:36.

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    Quote Originally posted by Sammy View Post
    Regarding Bill and PA/donations

    The way I look at it all is that everybody's life path unfolds in part by planning but also as a result of less than predictable (and sometimes unpredictable) life. It appears to me the life circumstances Bill found himself facing resulted in his ownership of the PA forum. PA is a forum capable of generating donations (income) which Bill, as owner, can do with as he wishes.

    If some or all of that income is used for personal support (the means to maintaining a life, a body and its basic needs) such that Bill can maintain a lifestyle whereby he can do (which requires time) what he feels is needed and best for the PA forum, which includes (IMO) caring for himself in ways he can fuel his spirit, allow for care for his soul, provide him the ability to focus on all the things he wants to and needs to for his spiritual maintenance... I don't begrudge Bill for any of that.

    And I think most folks who have provided donations know much of this and share a similar view.
    Well, I will add two things to that. First and foremost, one should not underestimate the annual cost of running and maintaining the forum. It does cost a significant amount of money, and that money has to come from somewhere. So if the member donations pay for that expense, then there's nothing wrong with that. After all, Project Avalon is providing its members with a service that they can all benefit from without that there's any obligation to pay for it.

    Secondly, Bill explained his own take on economics once in a video ─ it was an interview of both him and Kerry, so it's not recent ─ and I could perfectly relate to his idea. He said that he doesn't care much about whom he gives money to, nor about whom he receives it from. So rather than adhering to the quid pro quo vantage of our society where you pay a particular person or entity for a service from that very same person or entity, Bill regards money as a resource in a large pool. If you give, regardless of whom you give to, then it'll come back to you through some other avenue eventually. It's a much more natural balance than the quid pro quo.

    I maintain a similar conviction, albeit that I cannot really apply it to finances anymore now ─ it was easier in the past when I still had money, but now I am officially on the poverty list. But I have always given ─ whether it was money, time, energy or whatever ─ without expecting anything in return, other than gratitude ─ and, disappointingly, sometimes you don't even get that. But I believe that if you give freely, then you will also receive back freely, in whatever way. What goes around must always come around, one way or the other. And Bill seems to have the same idea about that.
    = DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR =

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    Quote Originally posted by Aragorn View Post
    Well, I will add two things to that. First and foremost, one should not underestimate the annual cost of running and maintaining the forum. It does cost a significant amount of money, and that money has to come from somewhere. So if the member donations pay for that expense, then there's nothing wrong with that. After all, Project Avalon is providing its members with a service that they can all benefit from without that there's any obligation to pay for it.

    Secondly, Bill explained his own take on economics once in a video ─ it was an interview of both him and Kerry, so it's not recent ─ and I could perfectly relate to his idea. He said that he doesn't care much about whom he gives money to, nor about whom he receives it from. So rather than adhering to the quid pro quo vantage of our society where you pay a particular person or entity for a service from that very same person or entity, Bill regards money as a resource in a large pool. If you give, regardless of whom you give to, then it'll come back to you through some other avenue eventually. It's a much more natural balance than the quid pro quo.

    I maintain a similar conviction, albeit that I cannot really apply it to finances anymore now ─ it was easier in the past when I still had money, but now I am officially on the poverty list. But I have always given ─ whether it was money, time, energy or whatever ─ without expecting anything in return, other than gratitude ─ and, disappointingly, sometimes you don't even get that. But I believe that if you give freely, then you will also receive back freely, in whatever way. What goes around must always come around, one way or the other. And Bill seems to have the same idea about that.
    Regarding the first point, the costs to run/maintain that forum are considering inflation from the last time Bill publicly stated the costs) is around $500. This does not include costs to any staff. But having mentioned that, from the last time Bill shared the information (I cannot know if this is the case since), all staff is all, 100% voluntary.

    Regarding the second point (and I have prepared a significantly monstrous post which, if I pull the trigger, will be placed in my silly smorgasbord thread and which addresses this in the most broad sense), "giving" (whether money or any other form of giving) can have negative implications for others. And so in cases such as that, I can only imagine what "karma" might be created by the giver for her/himself in this regard.

    A simple example is having a child that has a serious drug problem and you give them money when you know the odds are extremely high they will use it to buy drugs OR, if they use it to buy food instead (for example), you are still enabling them to survive without having to face the consequences of their indulgences thus you may actually be preventing them or at least prolonging their "need" to reach that bottom whereby they may actually take the first steps towards facing their problem with drugs. This type of "giving" is exemplified on a macro level by cities such as San Francisco. And worse, they do it by using the funding provided through taxes taken from those who live more responsibly. The intent may be "good" but the results show that what is thought to be "good" is actually and obviously "bad."
    Last edited by Sammy, 3rd July 2019 at 15:23.

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  25. #223
    Administrator Aragorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Sammy View Post
    Quote Originally posted by Aragorn View Post
    Well, I will add two things to that. First and foremost, one should not underestimate the annual cost of running and maintaining the forum. It does cost a significant amount of money, and that money has to come from somewhere. So if the member donations pay for that expense, then there's nothing wrong with that. After all, Project Avalon is providing its members with a service that they can all benefit from without that there's any obligation to pay for it.

    Secondly, Bill explained his own take on economics once in a video ─ it was an interview of both him and Kerry, so it's not recent ─ and I could perfectly relate to his idea. He said that he doesn't care much about whom he gives money to, nor about whom he receives it from. So rather than adhering to the quid pro quo vantage of our society where you pay a particular person or entity for a service from that very same person or entity, Bill regards money as a resource in a large pool. If you give, regardless of whom you give to, then it'll come back to you through some other avenue eventually. It's a much more natural balance than the quid pro quo.

    I maintain a similar conviction, albeit that I cannot really apply it to finances anymore now ─ it was easier in the past when I still had money, but now I am officially on the poverty list. But I have always given ─ whether it was money, time, energy or whatever ─ without expecting anything in return, other than gratitude ─ and, disappointingly, sometimes you don't even get that. But I believe that if you give freely, then you will also receive back freely, in whatever way. What goes around must always come around, one way or the other. And Bill seems to have the same idea about that.
    Regarding the first point, the costs to run/maintain that forum are considering inflation from the last time Bill publicly stated the costs) is around $500.
    Actually, I could be wrong, but I believe that it would be significantly more than that. There's the lease for the domain name itself, which has to be periodically renewed, and then there's the cost of running the server, plus the cost of the server's facilities in terms of guaranteed network throughput, the periodic backups, the machine's hardware layout, and so on.

    Quote Originally posted by Sammy View Post
    This does not include costs to any staff. But having mentioned that, from the last time Bill shared the information (I cannot know if this is the case since), all staff is all, 100% voluntary.
    Yes, the Project Avalon staff members are not being financially reimbursed, nor would that be the case here at The One Truth or at Eye-Rise. We all do what we do out of a 100% voluntary commitment.

    Unless your name is George Noory, Jay Weidner, David Wilcock or Corey Goode of course, because for them this whole alternative community thing is nothing but a business.

    Quote Originally posted by Sammy View Post
    Regarding the second point (and I have prepared a significantly monstrous post which, if I pull the trigger, will be placed in my silly smorgasbord thread and which addresses this in the most broad sense), "giving" (whether money or any other form of giving) can have negative implications for others. And so in cases such as that, I can only imagine what "karma" might be created by the giver for her/himself in this regard.

    A simple example is having a child that has a serious drug problem and you give them money when you know the odds are extremely high they will use it to buy drugs OR, if they use it to buy food instead (for example), you are still enabling them to survive without having to face the consequences of their indulgences thus you may actually be preventing them or at least prolonging their "need" to reach that bottom whereby they may actually take the first steps towards facing their problem with drugs. This type of "giving" is exemplified on a macro level by cities such as San Francisco. And worse, they do it by using the funding provided through taxes taken from those who live more responsibly. The intent may be "good" but the results show that what is thought to be "good" is actually and obviously "bad."
    Yes, of course, but I was not addressing those issues, as that would take us too deep into that subject, and it would be off-topic for this thread ─ we've already drifted off-topic a few times. So my statement was generic and therefore precluded any "negative karma" situations.
    = DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR =

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  27. #224
    Moderator Wind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Sammy View Post
    The intent may be "good" but the results show that what is thought to be "good" is actually and obviously "bad."
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

    That doesn't mean that people should stop giving, as giving is almost always the right thing to do.

    What ever you give will come back to you in one way or another. I too have given a lot without asking or expecting anything back in return and as Aragorn said, sadly sometimes people don't even bother to give thanks. That surely tells something. When it comes to governments helping people, well, that's another thing. I do believe that nourishing food, free public healthcare and shelters for people are basic human rights and they are non-negotiable. Not everyone is able to take care of themselves, for various reasons. Sometimes they are mental or physical problems & illnesses. That's where empathy should kick in or if it doesn't then we see a society that resembles a shithole.

    Some people get into addictions, those addictions shouldn't be fed, but the core problem should be dealt with. Of course then there is the karma too which all of us have and it manifests in our lives in multiple different ways... That doesn't mean that we shouldn't help each others as life most certainly can be a struggle for most of us. We all have to face misery and sorrow eventually anyways and everyone is going to need some support.

    Sorry for contributing to the off-topic.

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    Quote Originally posted by Aragorn View Post
    Actually, I could be wrong, but I believe that it would be significantly more than that. There's the lease for the domain name itself, which has to be periodically renewed, and then there's the cost of running the server, plus the cost of the server's facilities in terms of guaranteed network throughput, the periodic backups, the machine's hardware layout, and so on.



    Yes, the Project Avalon staff members are not being financially reimbursed, nor would that be the case here at The One Truth or at Eye-Rise. We all do what we do out of a 100% voluntary commitment.

    Unless your name is George Noory, Jay Weidner, David Wilcock or Corey Goode of course, because for them this whole alternative community thing is nothing but a business.



    Yes, of course, but I was not addressing those issues, as that would take us too deep into that subject, and it would be off-topic for this thread ─ we've already drifted off-topic a few times. So my statement was generic and therefore precluded any "negative karma" situations.
    Feel free to move the above posts to the smorgasbord thread... I would like it if you did.

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