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Thread: The Psychology of Self-Actualization

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    Quote Originally posted by Wind View Post
    Those are some really critical truths...expectations and values are the two most common causes of relationship failures. Individuation is an essential component of healthy relationships, and that is something that doesn't fully develop until very late in the 4th decade of life. Because of my age I suppose I entered marriage under no illusions, but I had a 'goal' which I accomplished but I could easily have done without the excruciating heartache. If relationships can last at least 5 years then there is hope for long term success. Yet, then there is the 7-year itch to deal with. I'd hoped that my ex could make the 5-year transition but she was too young apparently and beyond selfish...narcissistic even, she has tortured my daughter with it since the beginning.

    I had a good friend whose parents divorced after more than 40 years of marriage. That left me scratching my head as all examples of that do. The 7-year thing does tend to cycle over time with age attending variations. Life sucks! ... and then you die.

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    Quote Originally posted by Chuckie View Post
    I had a good friend whose parents divorced after more than 40 years of marriage.
    My parents have been married for over 40 years now and they definitely have had their rough patches, could have divorced in their 40's when I was just still a kid. They didn't and now they will live together until the end and I hope they have many more years left. My older brother has been with his partner for over 20 years, there is no sign of them getting married and they are two very different people, in some sense they're staying together for the kids, but I don't know if they would stick together once all the kids have flown out of the nest which is still going to take a good while. That's something I can understand, but wouldn't want to live. Although family is very important.

    That seven year cycle is true in everything though, there are different phases and seasons in our lives. When I was around 20 years old I thought I knew a lot, turns out I knew jack shit. I was a precocious child and even then youngsters can have their arrogance if they have intelligence. Now I try to be humble in front of life, about some things I know a lot and some things are still mysteries to me. Women are somewhat like that too although I have figured out something about the opposite gender for sure. I'm still trying to figure out myself too.
    "The more I see, the less I know for sure." ~ John Lennon

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    Quote Originally posted by Wind View Post
    My parents have been married for over 40 years now and they definitely have had their rough patches, could have divorced in their 40's when I was just still a kid. They didn't and now they will live together until the end and I hope they have many more years left. My older brother has been with his partner for over 20 years, there is no sign of them getting married and they are two very different people, in some sense they're staying together for the kids, but I don't know if they would stick together once all the kids have flown out of the nest which is still going to take a good while. That's something I can understand, but wouldn't want to live. Although family is very important.

    That seven year cycle is true in everything though, there are different phases and seasons in our lives. When I was around 20 years old I thought I knew a lot, turns out I knew jack shit. I was a precocious child and even then youngsters can have their arrogance if they have intelligence. Now I try to be humble in front of life, about some things I know a lot and some things are still mysteries to me. Women are somewhat like that too although I have figured out something about the opposite gender for sure. I'm still trying to figure out myself too.
    I guess all couples have their ups and downs as time goes on, and some of that might be the result of personal issues, some of it might be the result of not having the ideal partner — if such a thing even exists — and then there's also what the world does to a relationship.

    One of the things I've discovered, though, is that the decision of having children is usually the biggest sword hanging over the neck of the relationship. And by this, I am not actually referring to children's manipulation of their parents — turning their parents against each other in order to profit from it — but rather to the (biologically proven) fact that having children changes the brain structure of the woman.

    As the matter of fact, this already begins during pregnancy, and it is the result of hormones. By consequence, a woman who has children will dedicate more attention onto her children than on her partner, relegating the partner to the role of a friend and an occasional sex partner. And — I know this is going to sound controversial and could possibly be construed as misogyny, which I can assure you it is not — it is a fact of life that a female brain functions differently from a male brain. In a male brain, reason and emotions work in parallel, while in a female brain, they work in series.

    A woman's intellect passes through her emotions, and vice versa, whereas a man's intellect works side by side with his emotions. A man can also love his wife and his children equally intensely, while a woman with children will always put her children first and her husband second (or third).

    So it's not necessarily true that a (modern-day) woman will put her career before her marriage — sure, it may and does happen occasionally, but pursuing a career at the cost of the marriage or household is commonly not something encountered among women. This is much rather a male weakness, because males are generally more preoccupied with status and professional accomplishments than women. This is of course not to say that the cost of living and peer pressure in the work environment wouldn't have a negative influence on one's household. In fact, the professional/occupational aspect and the cost of living — as well as all the temptations toward spending that come with the capitalist society model — do put a significant burden on the shoulders of the middle class.

    Nevertheless, I have known a few couples who have consciously chosen not to have children — which then usually draws negative criticisms (behind their backs, of course) from their peers — and those couples are always the least likely to ever get a divorce. Speaking from my own experience, at 60 years old, I have never been married, but I have been officially engaged several times, and I have had relationships with women who already had children from a previous relationship. And yes, in those relationships, I have had to experience first-hand how I was quickly relegated to the third rank because of the children — not just in terms of attention, but also in terms of importance and actual caring.

    And after too much of that, I then finally told myself that I wasn't ever going to stand for that again anymore. I know that whenever I have a girlfriend with whom I really connect, I commit myself to the full 100%, but then I expect the same from her in return. No hiding behind children, or a career, or a reputation, or whatever.

    Of course, at (currently) 60 years old, in addition to being poor and being a cripple, not only do I not have any aspirations anymore in that regard, but I think I'm also not really open to a new relationship anymore. I have said it before and I will say it again: I am only still alive because my body hasn't died yet. As far as I'm concerned, life has nothing left to offer me — not on a personal level, that is. I am spending the rest of my days trying to continue making myself useful toward other people and supporting what I deem worthy causes — which would be a lot nicer if the world weren't so full of goddamn idiots, leeches and predators. But whereas my personal life is concerned, it's all over and done with already, and has been for quite a while now.

    Up until a few years ago, I had a dream, but having had a stroke in December 2022 and having turned 60 in 2023, that dream has now flown out the window. Things are what they are, and I never really had a say in any of it. So much for free will — at least, in my own universe, that is. Other people's mileage may vary.

    I'm not even sure whether I should even be writing the above anymore. Somehow it feels like I'm divulging a little too much of myself here, and/or that I would be fishing for attention. But I'm not — really not. I'm only being brutally honest. And cynical perhaps, yes. But having lived all of my life in a childishly naive hope for the best — a hope that has painfully turned out in vain time and time again — and now being 60 and going on 61, I reserve the right to be cynical.
    = DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR =

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    Quote Originally posted by Aragorn View Post
    I guess all couples have their ups and downs as time goes on, and some of that might be the result of personal issues, some of it might be the result of not having the ideal partner — if such a thing even exists — and then there's also what the world does to a relationship.

    One of the things I've discovered, though, is that the decision of having children is usually the biggest sword hanging over the neck of the relationship. And by this, I am not actually referring to children's manipulation of their parents — turning their parents against each other in order to profit from it — but rather to the (biologically proven) fact that having children changes the brain structure of the woman.

    As the matter of fact, this already begins during pregnancy, and it is the result of hormones. By consequence, a woman who has children will dedicate more attention onto her children than on her partner, relegating the partner to the role of a friend and an occasional sex partner. And — I know this is going to sound controversial and could possibly be construed as misogyny, which I can assure you it is not — it is a fact of life that a female brain functions differently from a male brain. In a male brain, reason and emotions work in parallel, while in a female brain, they work in series.

    A woman's intellect passes through her emotions, and vice versa, whereas a man's intellect works side by side with his emotions. A man can also love his wife and his children equally intensely, while a woman with children will always put her children first and her husband second (or third).

    So it's not necessarily true that a (modern-day) woman will put her career before her marriage — sure, it may and does happen occasionally, but pursuing a career at the cost of the marriage or household is commonly not something encountered among women. This is much rather a male weakness, because males are generally more preoccupied with status and professional accomplishment than women. This is of course not to say that the cost of living and peer pressure in the work environment wouldn't have an negative influence on one's household. In fact, the professional/occupational aspect and the cost of living — as well as all the temptations toward spending that come with the capitalist society model — do put a significant burden on the shoulders of the middle class.

    Nevertheless, I have known a few couples who have consciously chosen not to have children — which then usually draws negative criticisms (behind their backs, of course) from their peers — and those couples are always the least likely to ever get a divorce. Speaking from my own experience, at 60 years old, I have never been married, but I have been officially engaged several times, and I have had relationships with women who already had children from a previous relationship. And yes, in those relationships, I have had to experience first-hand how I was quickly relegated to the third rank because of the children — not just in terms of attention, but also in terms of importance and actual caring.

    And after too much of that, I then finally told myself that I wasn't ever going to stand for that again anymore. I know that whenever I have a girlfriend with whom I really connect, I commit myself to the full 100%, but then I expect the same from her in return. No hiding behind children, or a career, or a reputation, or whatever.

    Of course, at (currently) 60 years old, in addition to being poor and being a cripple, not only do I not have any aspirations anymore in that regard, but I think I'm also not really open to a new relationship anymore. I have said it before and I will say it again: I am only still alive because my body hasn't died yet. As far as I'm concerned, life has nothing left to offer me — not on a personal level, that is. I am spending the rest of my days trying to continue making myself useful toward other people and supporting what I deem worthy causes — which would be a lot nicer if the world weren't so full of goddamn idiots, leeches and predators. But whereas my personal life is concerned, it's all over and done with already, and has been for quite a while now.

    Up until a few years ago, I had a dream, but having had a stroke in December 2022 and having turned 60 in 2023, that dream has now flown out the window. Things are what they are, and I never really had a say in any of it. So much for free will — at least, in my own universe, that is. Other people's mileage may vary.

    I'm not even sure whether I should even be writing the above anymore. Somehow it feels like I'm divulging a little too much of myself here, and/or that I would be fishing for attention. But I'm not — really not. I'm only being brutally honest. And cynical perhaps, yes. But having lived all of my life in a childishly naive hope for the best — a hope that has painfully turned out in vain time and time again — and now being 60 and going on 61, I reserve the right to be cynical.
    yeah, I can identify with a lot of that...Coincidentally, I read something the other day that gave me a new perspective to consider. We can't fight it, let God have his way and then things start changing.

    On a personal note, I was 'very happy' being relegated to 2nd class citizenship after my daughter was born. I loved my daughter magnitudes more than I ever loved my ex. Seems cruel or cold in a way but it was real. As I described to a therapist once when asked if I loved my wife. My response was, 'well, I wanted her in my space'. That was it.

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    Quote Originally posted by Aragorn View Post
    I'm not even sure whether I should even be writing the above anymore. Somehow it feels like I'm divulging a little too much of myself here, and/or that I would be fishing for attention. But I'm not — really not. I'm only being brutally honest. And cynical perhaps, yes. But having lived all of my life in a childishly naive hope for the best — a hope that has painfully turned out in vain time and time again — and now being 60 and going on 61, I reserve the right to be cynical.
    Sharing things could be helpful. I want to say that it's never too late and I'm saying that to myself too, but then again if you feel something is true to you then perhaps it is indeed so. But you just never really know.

    I was last of the brothers in my family and I came much later, my mother was very fond of me and we have had a close relationship. However, I heard from my father that when I was a little less than ten years old, my mother seems to have gotten influenced by our neighbour having lots of children. She was a Finnish person married to a muslim from Somalia, I was friends with the kids at the time. I don't know if something like baby fever is a thing in the sense that other women having kids might influence another woman. Anyways, my parents were in their 40's already and my father no longer wanted any kids. So I wonder if that would have been one of the reasons for their disagreements then.

    Sometimes I am surprised when I hear that people say they always wanted to be parents like my father has said. I've never had feeling of wanting children, in fact it's the opposite. I have an aversion towards it. Then again, I don't know. If the right woman came to my path, would I actually change my mind? It's just doesn't seem very realistic to me. To be honest, the responsibility scares the hell out of me. Then of course there is the fact that you no longer will be as free as before. As Shakespeare said in Hamlet; "To thine own self be true."

    I try to "let go and let God" as advised so I'm willing to accept whatever comes, even if I am meant to be single forever then I suppose I'll accept it too. That being said, I do think women are God's gift to this world. The saying goes that women make the world go round!

    I just kinda hope it wouldn't be the case forever, but my luck and success in romantic affairs has been terrible so far.


    Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k23x5kP7dAY
    "The more I see, the less I know for sure." ~ John Lennon

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    Quote Originally posted by Wind View Post
    Sharing things could be helpful. I want to say that it's never too late and I'm saying that to myself too, but then again if you feel something is true to you then perhaps it is indeed so. But you just never really know.

    I was last of the brothers in my family and I came much later, my mother was very fond of me and we have had a close relationship. However, I heard from my father that when I was a little less than ten years old, my mother seems to have gotten influenced by our neighbour having lots of children. She was a Finnish person married to a muslim from Somalia, I was friends with the kids at the time. I don't know if something like baby fever is a thing in the sense that other women having kids might influence another woman. Anyways, my parents were in their 40's already and my father no longer wanted any kids. So I wonder if that would have been one of the reasons for their disagreements then.

    Sometimes I am surprised when I hear that people say they always wanted to be parents like my father has said. I've never had feeling of wanting children, in fact it's the opposite. I have an aversion towards it. Then again, I don't know. If the right woman came to my path, would I actually change my mind? It's just doesn't seem very realistic to me. To be honest, the responsibility scares the hell out of me. Then of course there is the fact that you no longer will be as free as before. As Shakespeare said in Hamlet; "To thine own self be true."

    I try to "let go and let God" as advised so I'm willing to accept whatever comes, even if I am meant to be single forever then I suppose I'll accept it too. That being said, I do think women are God's gift to this world. The saying goes that women make the world go round!

    I just kinda hope it wouldn't be the case forever, but my luck and success in romantic affairs has been terrible so far.


    Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k23x5kP7dAY
    I always wanted to be a father...starting in my 20's...I wanted the opportunity to give a child what I never had, 'unconditional love' and just a sense of security in a stable family environment...Of course, my ex took that life's dream from me, by torturing my daughter and divorcing me. I realized due to changing circumstances very recently actually, that my dream was fully and completely gone. It hit pretty hard...A life truly lived and life past in failure. Oh well! I can't tell you how many times I felt that I should have followed my first instinct which was to join the priesthood. But I have my daughter, and she is a saving grace in my life. And yes the responsibility was great but it was with great passion that I pursued it...so the failures within it feel that much greater. But on balance I won that battle.


    The flow state is what most pro athletes enter when competing. Pre-game they start emanating brain waves that are 'relaxing' rather than 'stimulating'.
    Last edited by Emil El Zapato, 11th November 2023 at 10:56.

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    Quote Originally posted by Chuckie View Post
    yeah, I can identify with a lot of that...Coincidentally, I read something the other day that gave me a new perspective to consider. We can't fight it, let God have his way and then things start changing.

    On a personal note, I was 'very happy' being relegated to 2nd class citizenship after my daughter was born. I loved my daughter magnitudes more than I ever loved my ex. Seems cruel or cold in a way but it was real. As I described to a therapist once when asked if I loved my wife. My response was, 'well, I wanted her in my space'. That was it.
    On letting go and letting God. I decided to 'try' it. Something in me lacked the faith or just feared the thought of it:

    Almost immediately, I received the opportunity to 're-negotiate' a job offer that I had rejected because it wasn't what I 'really' wanted. This was about two months ago. I ended up getting almost everything I wanted and more than I expected. Not the first time this has happened but as you said Aragorn, "mileage may vary"

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    Quote Originally posted by Wind View Post
    a.k.a. the double-bind that is equivalent to a big stick up the bum of the conservative.

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    Quote Originally posted by Chuckie View Post
    a.k.a. the double-bind that is equivalent to a big stick up the bum of the conservative.
    Last time I looked, this thread was not about politics, Chuckie, let alone US-centric politics.
    = DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR =

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    Quote Originally posted by Aragorn View Post
    Last time I looked, this thread was not about politics, Chuckie, let alone US-centric politics.
    Ok, you got me, but I see that as a central part of life's difficulties...for all of us.

    The reason I was thinking about it is because I had a conversation with a couple of interesting people recently. One is from Turkey (A historical Mongol) and another is essentially the same...his last name is Khan, his ethnicity is Afghani but grew up in Pakistan, and is essentially acculturated Pakistani-Indian. Both Muslims.
    Last edited by Emil El Zapato, 3rd January 2024 at 23:30.

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