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Thread: Watchers watching watchers

  1. #1
    Super Moderator United States Dreamtimer's Avatar
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    Watchers watching watchers

    I've come to know many personalities in this alternative community. Often, these personalities examine each other. The subject of liberal/conservative or right/left often comes up despite the fact that we're all mostly alike. Of course it's not a black and white issue.

    I have seen Sargon of Akkad here. I haven't seen David Packman. Sargon has apparently discussed David several times and is critical of his positions. David has decided to address these criticisms. He does it with a fine examination of the history of right and left.

    The first really juicy tidbit for me comes at 10:12. Has anyone ever heard of the book Left Wing Communism, an Infantile Disorder? I hadn't.


    Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERT5xVU48ws


    I have had a lifelong experience of talking facts and common sense and getting called liberal. Does anyone else experience this? It did not turn out that I was biased or deluded. I was talking simple facts and common sense. And I would just get called liberal. Maybe it's an American thing.


    At 16:00. "I don't want to live in a far left, anarchist society that has no government or police or markets."

    Common sense.
    Last edited by Dreamtimer, 11th January 2018 at 15:22.

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    Senior Member NotAPretender's Avatar
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    lol, the definition of contemporary right wing is 'flight from reality'. It is consistent with the authoritarian contempt of truth and contempt of anyone that adheres to the sanctity of truth.

    NAP
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    Administrator Aragorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    At 16:00. "I don't want to live in a far left, anarchist society that has no government or police or markets."

    Common sense.
    I wouldn't call that common sense, Sister. I would call that "ultraconservative, pro-capitalist and right-wing bigotry".

    In a world where every member of society is a respectful, responsible and conscientious being, there wouldn't be any need for an authority in the form of a government or a police force, and there would also not be any need for markets, because everything would be free.

    The argumentation of most conservatives — and especially so when it comes to the US-specific branch of conservatism — is almost exclusively founded upon fear. Fear of change, fear of the unknown, fear of anything that is different from themselves and their automated, conditioned and indoctrinated way of living.

    Furthermore, it needs to be said out loud that what Acronymian political culture calls "left-wing" — i.e. the US Democrats — is still very much to the right of the vertical center line of the political horizon when compared to other nations, and very much above the horizontal line between authoritarianism and libertarianism. Both the US Democrats and the US Republicans are in the top right corner of the political compass. And therefore, they also both feel inclined to refer to what would be on the vertical center line as "the far left".

    In having spoken to many mainstream US Acronymians in the past, I have also learned that the vast majority of them doesn't even understand what socialism or communism are. They merely have this vague idea, completely and utterly based upon Cold War anti-communist propaganda. And of course, countries like North Korea aren't exactly exemplary of what true socialism was meant to be. They've tried to go so far to the left that they've come full circle and exited the tunnel again on the far right.
    = DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR =

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    Senior Member NotAPretender's Avatar
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    A study was done regarding left and right 'philosophy'. The study learned that by removing 'fear' and making the right feel 'safe' it could turn a rightie to a leftie... Everybody says it and 'feels' it, but there you have it in shiny empirical research.
    "We are one thought away from changing the world!"

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    Super Moderator United States Dreamtimer's Avatar
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    I watched a couple of other videos by this guy. He talks about different kinds of socialism addressing in particular what has worked in them. I personally am not advocating him, I think he thinks things through very well.

    If what I hear as common sense is really ultraconservative then I really don't know where I fall on the spectrum. I still get called liberal when I speak simple facts and logic. And thanks for pointing out how skewed our ideas of left and right really are. As usual, we have to get to nearly falling off the edge before we realize we've gone too far. [I've begun to realize that people really were gearing up for civil war and Trump was ready to pour plenty of fuel on that fire. Maybe this political chaos is actually better than what surely would have led to war around the world. Maybe buttons and rocket men won't be quite as volatile.]

    In an ideal society where all people respect each other, you're right, Aragorn, we don't need government or police. I'm pretty sure I said something just like that not too long ago right here.

    And we need to move in that direction. So this guy wants to be progressive without undoing capitalism and I think he does a pretty good job delineating what he sees as the difference between liberal, what is perceived as liberal, and what is progressive. In America, people, especially conservatives, conflate the two but they are not really the same.

    I found the part about anarcho-syndicalist very interesting.

    I think he and I both see that the ideal of natural respect for each other is still quite far down the road.

    Last edited by Dreamtimer, 11th January 2018 at 21:56.

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    Super Moderator United States Dreamtimer's Avatar
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    Brain chemistry, eh? Carlton Pearson went from mega preacher to being abandoned by all who loved him when he began to preach his Gospel of Inclusion. I listened to his story on "This American Life:", I believe. Only one of his 50 priests-in-training stayed with him. They interviewed this man. He said straight out that the thing that keeps people coming to church every Sunday is the fear of Hell. If you don't spread that fear and keep it coming, you'll lose parishioners. That's just how it is. With the mega-churches anyway.

    My concern with them is simply their desire for some kind of theocracy. If they believe they'll go to hell otherwise...

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    Moderator Wind's Avatar
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    Just last night I was listening to Jordan Peterson, he has a fascinating mind.

    Can humans ever get past the tribalism? The ridiculous us vs "them"-mindset.


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    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    I still get called liberal when I speak simple facts and logic.
    Is there ever such a thing as simple facts and logic?

    Without exception we're all speaking simple facts and logic as we understand them to be.

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    Super Moderator United States Dreamtimer's Avatar
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    We do the best we can do. Sometimes things aren't as simple as they seem.

    But a simple statement like saying that Gingrich spearheaded the move to stop dialoguing with Democrats and liberals gets me labelled and worse. It's true. He did it. For years. He was proud of his accomplishment. He's bragged about his success.

    And his team is now wailing and moaning that the liberals and democrats won't dialogue. What did they expect?

    The same dynamic happens in this community. Corey changed his story numerous times. And yet, pointing out that simple fact might get you labeled Dark Alliance.

    It seems to come down to choosing belief over actual empirical evidence. And that phrase about arguing with fools keeps coming up. I'm looking for non-fools.

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    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    Corey changed his story numerous times.
    Maybe he did; I don't know; I wasn't here.

    But from my point of view, a person who has been through a black project where he is abused and has witnessed unspeakable acts is going to have a hard time sorting things out rationally.

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    Senior Member NotAPretender's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by KeepTrying View Post
    Is there ever such a thing as simple facts and logic?

    Without exception we're all speaking simple facts and logic as we understand them to be.
    good point and the answer is yes there is...empirical reality is true period. Anything beyond that can be questioned...
    "We are one thought away from changing the world!"

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    Quote Originally posted by NotAPretender View Post
    . . . empirical reality is true period.
    I agree but only God knows what it is, and none of us is God.

    We have a spark of God in us, but overall we're not perfect.

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    Administrator Aragorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by KeepTrying View Post
    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    Corey changed his story numerous times.
    Maybe he did; I don't know; I wasn't here.
    But we were.

    Quote Originally posted by KeepTrying View Post
    But from my point of view, a person who has been through a black project where he is abused and has witnessed unspeakable acts is going to have a hard time sorting things out rationally.
    If there is even any truth to that at all. Schizophrenics and people with schizotypal personality disorder cannot tell truth from fantasy.

    At this point in time, I'm still under the impression that Corey would be afflicted with schizotypal personality disorder, and in that case, the actual abuse comes from those who are egging him on to tell more, either because they themselves want to believe (e.g. Wilcock and Salla), or because it serves their commercial or other agenda (e.g. Gaia TV, Corey's wife, et al).

    I've known Corey well for just under a year, and I don't think that he himself would have any ill intentions. His entourage on the other hand, that's a whole other story...
    = DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR =

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    Quote Originally posted by Aragorn View Post
    Schizophrenics and people with schizotypal personality disorder cannot tell truth from fantasy.
    That diagnosis for Corey would be very difficult for a forum member to determine with any accuracy.

    I prefer to trust my judgment based on numerous hours listening to and observing Corey's testimony.

    I also have confidence in Michael Salla's bona fides as a competent investigator.

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    Administrator Aragorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by KeepTrying View Post
    Quote Originally posted by Aragorn View Post
    Schizophrenics and people with schizotypal personality disorder cannot tell truth from fantasy.
    That diagnosis for Corey would be very difficult for a forum member to determine with any accuracy.
    Corey and I primarily communicated off of any forums, and we spoke about lots of things, but never about the alleged Secret Space Program. Or at least, not beyond that one question that I asked him once regarding the weapons technology used by the SSP and their enemies when both he and I were still members at Project Avalon. Everything else we talked about were down-to-earth matters, even though he was certainly enthralled with the idea of going on TV with David Wilcock.

    In addition to that, whether you believe it or not, I happen to have the credentials and the experience to cast such a diagnosis — tentative as it may be. And just as in your case, people generally dismiss what I say. But as it just so happens to be, they then generally also have to admit later that they were wrong and that I was right.

    I can only tell you what I know. I cannot make you agree with me. Besides, that would be pointless for so long as you yourself cannot see the writing on the wall yet.

    This is not about being right or wrong, or about who gets to "win" the bet. It's about waking up and seeing things for what they are.

    Quote Originally posted by KeepTrying View Post
    I prefer to trust my judgment based on numerous hours listening to and observing Corey's testimony.
    There is a difference between thinking critically and consuming a narrative. When you listen to Corey, you're consuming the narrative, because you want to believe. Just like Salla and Wilcock.

    Quote Originally posted by KeepTrying View Post
    I also have confidence in Michael Salla's bona fides as a competent investigator.
    Based upon what, exactly? The fact that he has written a few books?
    = DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR =

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