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Thread: UFO Existence “Proven Beyond Reasonable Doubt,” Says Former Head of Pentagon Alien Program

  1. #91
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    I also lean towards suspecting that something happened in Roswell. It is not too inconceivable to imagine that a coverup could have occurred. They did hide much of the UFO research that they did in that time period anyways. Some people go too far with UFO conspiracy theories and stretch them too far, but it is not too much of a stretch to suggest the possibility of a coverup and that the government has covered up their UFO research for a long time. Especially if there was some technology that they could have been trying to reverse engineer from the craft and they wanted to be the only ones with that technology. Beyond that, then I don't think that the government really knows what these things are or where they come from, and they wouldn't be willing to admit that they don't know something.
    If there was a test going on, then the Roswell Army Air Field would have known that it was going on, and if they suspected it could have been a test when they first saw the debris, they would not have stated that they recovered a flying disk which would attract much more attention to the story.

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    So this is interesting. One event, two competing theories.

    I’ve got no skin in the game for which ones correct, but just for kicks, let’s ask ourselves a simple question: what might ET have been finding so interesting, as to be buzzing around the Roswell area right after WW2?

    And the related question: was the fact that they appear to be interested in the Roswell area just two years after WW2 related to recently ended US war time activity, or was the timing merely coincidental?

    Let’s do an exercise of thinking this thing through here.
    The unexamined life is not worth living.

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    The A-bomb wing was stationed at Roswell and flew their Hiroshima and Nagasaki missions from there.

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    Quote Originally posted by Fred Steeves View Post
    So this is interesting. One event, two competing theories.

    I’ve got no skin in the game for which ones correct, but just for kicks, let’s ask ourselves a simple question: what might ET have been finding so interesting, as to be buzzing around the Roswell area right after WW2?

    And the related question: was the fact that they appear to be interested in the Roswell area just two years after WW2 related to recently ended US war time activity, or was the timing merely coincidental?

    Let’s do an exercise of thinking this thing through here.
    Well, the way I've always heard it explain was that it was Earth's development of nuclear weapons that drew their attention. I don't know whether it's true or not — and when it comes to the testimonies from people like the late Bob Dean, I get wary — but at least it's a plausible explanation.
    = DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR =

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    Quote Originally posted by Fred Steeves View Post
    Quote Originally posted by Aragorn View Post
    I for one am still inclined to believe that something "not of this world" crashed there, and that it was covered up. The USAF initially admitted that a "flying saucer" had crashed there, but withdrew that statement again by the next day and claimed that it was a weather balloon.
    Well it was first referred to as a "flying disc", and The Roswell Daily Record made it "flying saucer". Either way it's not in dispute that something strange crashed there, the question is did the pilot speak English or not, and what really happened to said pilot.
    Interesting remark about whether the pilot spoke English or not. It reminds me of the World War II stories that my grandmother used to tell my brother and I when we were still very young.

    One thing I never understood — and I doubt whether she had ever really seen one with her own eyes — was her claim that apart from the V-1 and V-2 weapons, the Germans also had "spheres" that were apparently "luminescent" and that "flew through the sky". I never knew what to make of that, because I had never heard anything like that, up until I then eventually stumbled upon the various pilot reports of so-called foo fighters — no, not the band.

    My grandmother never named them such — it is after all an Anglo-Saxon denomination — but she was adamant that they were German weapons. Maybe she was wrong. Maybe she wasn't. But the fact is that they were seen by many a pilot, and as it is my understanding, the Allied pilots thought they were German, while the German pilots thought they were Allied.

    What I do not believe in, is the claim that the German "Glocke" — if it even genuinely existed — would have been either a type of flying saucer or some kind of wormhole device. The Nazis were certainly very clever at engineering, but they were not that advanced. Had that been the case, then they wouldn't have put all of their money on Von Braun's experimental two-stage V-3 missile, which, unlike the V-1 (which was an unmanned and unguided jet loaded with explosives) and the V-2 (which was an equally unguided single-stage ballistic missile), never actually made it into production use.

    As the matter of fact, the Nazis rejected pretty much all of Einstein's work with a knee-jerk because Einstein was Jewish, although they did do research into the development of a nuclear weapon, for which they did however not have the resources. But maybe those foo fighters were not actually aircraft or spacecraft. Maybe they were some kind of energetic weapon?
    = DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR =

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    Quote Originally posted by Chuckie View Post
    The A-bomb wing was stationed at Roswell and flew their Hiroshima and Nagasaki missions from there.
    Negative.

    The 509th Composite Group was the weapon delivery arm of the Manhattan Project. Prior to being stationed on Tinian Island, the 509th underwent extensive training with the modified B-29 Superfortress at Wendover Army Air Field in Wendover, Utah. On August 6 and 9, airmen of the 509th flew from Tinian Island to Hiroshima and Nagasaki, carrying the Little Boy and Fat Man atomic bombs.

    Creation of the 509th


    While scientists of the Manhattan Project focused on the functionality of the atomic bomb, Project Alberta, headed by Captain William “Deak” Parsons, focused on the plans for delivering the bomb. There were two components of this challenge: developing planes to carry the bomb, and training airmen to fly them. Project Silverplate, which focused on designing the planes to carry the bomb, was started as early as October of 1943. The 509th Composite Group, the crew to man these planes, was created in 1944.
    https://www.atomicheritage.org/histo...omposite-group

    Tinian Island:
    Tinian Island was the launching point for the atomic bomb attacks against Hiroshima and Nagasaki, Japan. One of three islands in the Northern Marianas, Tinian is less than forty square miles in size and located approximately 1,500 miles south of Tokyo. The round-trip flight from Tinian to Tokyo took B-29s an average of twelve hours. This proximity to Japan is one reason Tinian served as the headquarters of the 509th Composite Group.
    https://www.atomicheritage.org/location/tinian-island


    The infamous USS Indianapolis delivered the bomb to Tinian Island:
    The USS Indianapolis (hull classification symbol CA-35) was a US Navy cruiser that delivered the components of the Little Boy atomic bomb to Tinian Island. It was later sunk by a Japanese submarine in what became the worst naval disaster in US history. The ship’s secret mission, the questions surrounding its sinking, and the brutal trials endured by survivors have fascinated the public for decades.
    https://www.atomicheritage.org/histo...20US%20history.


    Roswell had nothing to do with the A bombs, or nuclear technology.



    Quote Originally posted by Aragorn View Post
    Well, the way I've always heard it explain was that it was Earth's development of nuclear weapons that drew their attention. I don't know whether it's true or not — and when it comes to the testimonies from people like the late Bob Dean, I get wary — but at least it's a plausible explanation.
    Right, I've always heard that too. But what did that have to do with the base at Roswell? If ET was nosing around because of recent nuclear developments and deployments, they were nosing around the wrong place.



    Quote Originally posted by Aragorn View Post
    One thing I never understood — and I doubt whether she had ever really seen one with her own eyes — was her claim that apart from the V-1 and V-2 weapons, the Germans also had "spheres" that were apparently "luminescent" and that "flew through the sky". I never knew what to make of that, because I had never heard anything like that, up until I then eventually stumbled upon the various pilot reports of so-called foo fighters — no, not the band.

    My grandmother never named them such — it is after all an Anglo-Saxon denomination — but she was adamant that they were German weapons. Maybe she was wrong. Maybe she wasn't. But the fact is that they were seen by many a pilot, and as it is my understanding, the Allied pilots thought they were German, while the German pilots thought they were Allied.
    Huh, I've heard stories of American pilots being buzzed and harassed by such mysterious craft, but not the German pilots as well. That could be though. If these were a new top secret technology that their own country was desperately trying to ease into production towards the end of the war, they wouldn't know any more about it than the American pilots talking about similar such phenomena today.

    Quote Originally posted by Aragorn View Post
    What I do not believe in, is the claim that the German "Glocke" — if it even genuinely existed — would have been either a type of flying saucer or some kind of wormhole device. The Nazis were certainly very clever at engineering, but they were not that advanced. Had that been the case, then they wouldn't have put all of their money on Von Braun's experimental two-stage V-3 missile, which, unlike the V-1 (which was an unmanned and unguided jet loaded with explosives) and the V-2 (which was an equally unguided single-stage ballistic missile), never actually made it into production use.
    Back when I was really looking into that stuff, I could never put my finger on just what exactly it's function was supposed to be. But whatever it was, I can certainly see why the US along with other of her allies at that time would want to get their greedy little mits on it.

    Quote Originally posted by Aragorn View Post
    As the matter of fact, the Nazis rejected pretty much all of Einstein's work with a knee-jerk because Einstein was Jewish, although they did do research into the development of a nuclear weapon, for which they did however not have the resources. But maybe those foo fighters were not actually aircraft or spacecraft. Maybe they were some kind of energetic weapon?
    Right. I seem to recall them condescendingly referring to it as something like "Jewish physics". They were under the impression that their own physics was far superior. Of course they did, they were fucking Nazis LOL! However, save for the atomic bombs, who else was playing around with these kinds of physics?
    The unexamined life is not worth living.

    Socrates

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    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/509th_Composite_Grouphttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/509th_Operations_Group
    The 509 OG traces its history to the World War II 509th Composite Group (509 CG), which conducted the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, Japan, in August 1945.

    Redesignated the 509th Bombardment Group, Very Heavy in 1946, the group was one of the original ten bombardment groups of Strategic Air Command. The unit was also the host organization at Roswell Army Airfield, New Mexico in July 1947 during the alleged Roswell incident.
    In November 1945, the group returned to the United States and was assigned to Roswell Army Air Base, New Mexico. For a brief period of time from January to March 1946 the 509th was assigned to the 58th Bomb Wing at Fort Worth AAF, Texas, before returning to Roswell.
    The 509th composite group was renamed to the 509th bombardment group and assigned to Roswell, New Mexico after World War 2, so it is related.

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    Quote Originally posted by sourcetruth View Post
    As far as Roswell, what is everyone's opinion on it here? I have heard conflicting viewpoints on Roswell, so I am still confused about what to think of it. I read one source that said it was shrouded in secrecy because it had to do with military technology.
    I am inclined to believe that they were aliens indeed. Although bear in mind that any species which crashes a physical ship is not very advanced one even if it can do space travel like that. They would still be quite primitive and tied to the third density physical reality just like we are now as humans. In the higher densities more advanced beings and ET's are far less physical and so are their ships even though they can materialize as seemingly physical objects, but they just don't choose to do that. Nukes have been probably a source of interest for them as it's been said that nuclear explosions cause much more than local damage here. They have more warping effect on energy which humans don't fully understand.

    I for one believe that ET's have always been part of humanity's history and they've never fully left us. There have been various factions and species. Just like humans, some are good and some are not. I think the human DNA has been tampered with too, both by negative and positive sources. DNA is code for life and in this solar system or universe lifeforms seem to be mainly humanoid due to the structure of the DNA which is being spread, but that's certainly not the case elsewhere.

    Also when it comes to US government and deep classified military operations, I do think they are not only aware of ET's, but they work with them. It might sound wild, but I think that has been the case at least since the times of Eisenhower. Sadly I think they mostly have been working with the negative ones, because the good guys would not want to directly intervene with humanity's course. In exchange for whatever info or something else the negative ET's have given the military technology which could be used in classified projects, possibly as weapons too.

    The ET's probably started us and have been our guardians, but I think there are certain kind of cosmic laws which they have to obey, which would be similar to the Prime Directive in Star Trek. I think Earth is like a laboratory with mixed results, it's considered to be a very tough place for souls too.

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    I'm not sure if the UFOs are really aliens. I believe that these could also be some sort of paranormal or extradimensional beings that appear like this, although it could be possible that there are aliens out there and I won't discount that possibility.
    There used to be a website called thejinn.net which explored the possibility that Aliens and UFOs were Jinn beings.
    According to this website, one sign that this could be the case is that UFO sightings occur with sightings of other paranormal phenomena.

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    Quote Originally posted by sourcetruth View Post
    I'm not sure if the UFOs are really aliens. I believe that these could also be some sort of paranormal or extradimensional beings that appear like this, although it could be possible that there are aliens out there and I won't discount that possibility.
    There used to be a website called thejinn.net which explored the possibility that Aliens and UFOs were Jinn beings.
    According to this website, one sign that this could be the case is that UFO sightings occur with sightings of other paranormal phenomena.
    That's mixing apples and oranges. There are certainly spirits, both negative and positive. Such as jinns, but they would not be the same as what we would think as UFO's. Some unidentified flying objects certainly could be manmade. What is considered alien lifeform anyways, or supernatural? Alien compared to us? What we think as beings out there can indeed also be interdimensional beings so that can be confusing for people to understand. This human species is just one out of so many, we are aliens to some other species out there.

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    Purportedly, the humans were unable to communicate with the crew of the crashed craft at Roswell.

    Quote Originally posted by Aragorn View Post
    Interesting remark about whether the pilot spoke English or not. It reminds me of the World War II stories that my grandmother used to tell my brother and I when we were still very young.

    One thing I never understood — and I doubt whether she had ever really seen one with her own eyes — was her claim that apart from the V-1 and V-2 weapons, the Germans also had "spheres" that were apparently "luminescent" and that "flew through the sky". I never knew what to make of that, because I had never heard anything like that, up until I then eventually stumbled upon the various pilot reports of so-called foo fighters — no, not the band.

    My grandmother never named them such — it is after all an Anglo-Saxon denomination — but she was adamant that they were German weapons. Maybe she was wrong. Maybe she wasn't. But the fact is that they were seen by many a pilot, and as it is my understanding, the Allied pilots thought they were German, while the German pilots thought they were Allied.

    What I do not believe in, is the claim that the German "Glocke" — if it even genuinely existed — would have been either a type of flying saucer or some kind of wormhole device. The Nazis were certainly very clever at engineering, but they were not that advanced. Had that been the case, then they wouldn't have put all of their money on Von Braun's experimental two-stage V-3 missile, which, unlike the V-1 (which was an unmanned and unguided jet loaded with explosives) and the V-2 (which was an equally unguided single-stage ballistic missile), never actually made it into production use.

    As the matter of fact, the Nazis rejected pretty much all of Einstein's work with a knee-jerk because Einstein was Jewish, although they did do research into the development of a nuclear weapon, for which they did however not have the resources. But maybe those foo fighters were not actually aircraft or spacecraft. Maybe they were some kind of energetic weapon?
    part of the German problem was that they went down the path of doing research with 'heavy water'. It was a dead end.

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    Quote Originally posted by sourcetruth View Post
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/509th_Composite_Grouphttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/509th_Operations_Group
    The 509 OG traces its history to the World War II 509th Composite Group (509 CG), which conducted the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, Japan, in August 1945.
    Redesignated the 509th Bombardment Group, Very Heavy in 1946, the group was one of the original ten bombardment groups of Strategic Air Command. The unit was also the host organization at Roswell Army Airfield, New Mexico in July 1947 during the alleged Roswell incident.

    In November 1945, the group returned to the United States and was assigned to Roswell Army Air Base, New Mexico. For a brief period of time from January to March 1946 the 509th was assigned to the 58th Bomb Wing at Fort Worth AAF, Texas, before returning to Roswell.
    The 509th composite group was renamed to the 509th bombardment group and assigned to Roswell, New Mexico after World War 2, so it is related.
    Okay, gotcha. So looks like it was both then. They trained at Wendover Army Air Field in Wendover, Utah, and then came back to settle in Roswell.

    The Roswell base was always just a training facility, nothing top secret going on there or anything, and that became their new home.

    So then where is this leading us? At first blush it's telling me that ET was more interested in what type of craft dropped the bombs, than who made them up the road at Los Alamos, or across the country at Oak Ridge, Tennessee just down the road from me.

    Although it's said that the craft was downed in a severe thunderstorm. So it's also possible that they were checking up on everything, ie the delivery mechanism, the manufacturing centers, and the test sites, but this one just happened to go down while it was checking out the delivery mechanism.

    But then as Wind alluded to, which I'll piggy back onto just a bit, wouldn't you think getting downed by a storm would be more of a 20th Century human short coming, and not that of a supposedly advanced technology that the likes of Bob Lazar, still contend hasn't been figured out yet?

    I've also heard that some others were downed accidentally by radar as well. Not very advanced there either.

    Hey, I'm just throwing this stuff out there, food for thought anyway...
    The unexamined life is not worth living.

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    Quote Originally posted by Fred Steeves View Post
    Negative.


    https://www.atomicheritage.org/histo...omposite-group

    Tinian Island:

    https://www.atomicheritage.org/location/tinian-island


    The infamous USS Indianapolis delivered the bomb to Tinian Island:

    https://www.atomicheritage.org/histo...20US%20history.


    Roswell had nothing to do with the A bombs, or nuclear technology.





    Right, I've always heard that too. But what did that have to do with the base at Roswell? If ET was nosing around because of recent nuclear developments and deployments, they were nosing around the wrong place.





    Huh, I've heard stories of American pilots being buzzed and harassed by such mysterious craft, but not the German pilots as well. That could be though. If these were a new top secret technology that their own country was desperately trying to ease into production towards the end of the war, they wouldn't know any more about it than the American pilots talking about similar such phenomena today.



    Back when I was really looking into that stuff, I could never put my finger on just what exactly it's function was supposed to be. But whatever it was, I can certainly see why the US along with other of her allies at that time would want to get their greedy little mits on it.



    Right. I seem to recall them condescendingly referring to it as something like "Jewish physics". They were under the impression that their own physics was far superior. Of course they did, they were fucking Nazis LOL! However, save for the atomic bombs, who else was playing around with these kinds of physics?
    Strategic Air Command
    Main article: 509th Operations Group

    Emblem of the 509th Bombardment Wing


    1946/47 sign at Roswell Army Airfield. Note the Mushroom Cloud symbol for the 509th Bomb Group.

    Martin-Omaha B-29-40-MO Superfortress AAF Serial No. 44-27353 The Great Artiste assigned to Crew C-15, 393rd Bombardment Squadron of the 509th Bomb Group. This aircraft was converted to Silverplate Victor number 89. This aircraft flew on both Atomic Bomb missions (6 August, 9 August 1945) as an instrument aircraft monitoring the nuclear explosions.
    The 509th Composite Group returned from its wartime base on Tinian and relocated to Roswell on 6 November 1945, initially being assigned to Second Air Force under Continental Air Forces. With demobilization in full swing in late 1945, much juggling of units was being performed by the Army Air Forces. It was reassigned to the 58th Bombardment Wing at Fort Worth Army Airfield on 17 January 1946. The 509th was assigned to Strategic Air Command on 21 March 1946, being one of the first eleven organizations assigned to SAC.

    In April 1946 many of the group's Boeing B-29 Superfortress aircraft deployed to Kwajalein as part of Operation Crossroads, a series of atomic bomb tests. The remainder became the core of two new squadrons activated as part of the group, the 715th Bomb Squadron and the 830th Bomb Squadron. In May 1946, the Army Air Forces gave the newly formed SAC the responsibility of delivering the atomic bomb. Only the 509th was trained and ready for the atomic bomb mission.

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    ok, I'll have to be more careful, if you're checking me, Fred. When I made the comment of flying from Roswell it actually made little sense to me, but I posted it anyway. as I was working with a pressure washer in the back yard... I hate the way you do that Fred.

    Quote Originally posted by Fred Steeves View Post
    Okay, gotcha. So looks like it was both then. They trained at Wendover Army Air Field in Wendover, Utah, and then came back to settle in Roswell.

    The Roswell base was always just a training facility, nothing top secret going on there or anything, and that became their new home.

    So then where is this leading us? At first blush it's telling me that ET was more interested in what type of craft dropped the bombs, than who made them up the road at Los Alamos, or across the country at Oak Ridge, Tennessee just down the road from me.

    Although it's said that the craft was downed in a severe thunderstorm. So it's also possible that they were checking up on everything, ie the delivery mechanism, the manufacturing centers, and the test sites, but this one just happened to go down while it was checking out the delivery mechanism.

    But then as Wind alluded to, which I'll piggy back onto just a bit, wouldn't you think getting downed by a storm would be more of a 20th Century human short coming, and not that of a supposedly advanced technology that the likes of Bob Lazar, still contend hasn't been figured out yet?

    I've also heard that some others were downed accidentally by radar as well. Not very advanced there either.

    Hey, I'm just throwing this stuff out there, food for thought anyway...
    Radar and possibly as gifts to humanity

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    Quote Originally posted by Chuckie View Post
    Strategic Air Command
    Main article: 509th Operations Group

    Emblem of the 509th Bombardment Wing


    1946/47 sign at Roswell Army Airfield. Note the Mushroom Cloud symbol for the 509th Bomb Group.

    Martin-Omaha B-29-40-MO Superfortress AAF Serial No. 44-27353 The Great Artiste assigned to Crew C-15, 393rd Bombardment Squadron of the 509th Bomb Group. This aircraft was converted to Silverplate Victor number 89. This aircraft flew on both Atomic Bomb missions (6 August, 9 August 1945) as an instrument aircraft monitoring the nuclear explosions.
    The 509th Composite Group returned from its wartime base on Tinian and relocated to Roswell on 6 November 1945, initially being assigned to Second Air Force under Continental Air Forces. With demobilization in full swing in late 1945, much juggling of units was being performed by the Army Air Forces. It was reassigned to the 58th Bombardment Wing at Fort Worth Army Airfield on 17 January 1946. The 509th was assigned to Strategic Air Command on 21 March 1946, being one of the first eleven organizations assigned to SAC.

    In April 1946 many of the group's Boeing B-29 Superfortress aircraft deployed to Kwajalein as part of Operation Crossroads, a series of atomic bomb tests. The remainder became the core of two new squadrons activated as part of the group, the 715th Bomb Squadron and the 830th Bomb Squadron. In May 1946, the Army Air Forces gave the newly formed SAC the responsibility of delivering the atomic bomb. Only the 509th was trained and ready for the atomic bomb mission.
    I inartfully worded what I said. While it was obvious the links I posted indicated that the squadron was indeed the chauffeur for the deployment of Big Boy and Little Boy, I was of the mind set that ET would only be interested in the bombs themselves, not how they got to Japan.

    It was definitely careless of me to say they had nothing to do with them…
    The unexamined life is not worth living.

    Socrates

  30. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Fred Steeves For This Useful Post:

    Aragorn (18th June 2022), Chuckie (18th June 2022), sourcetruth (18th June 2022), Wind (18th June 2022)

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