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  1. #1
    Senior Member Fred Steeves's Avatar
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    Me Too!

    Anyone that half way knows me, knows I like to stir up the old shit pot every now and zen.

    Question: In the midst of this current movement, would there be any public appetite for a man stepping forward to say "me too"?

    Personally I don't think it fits the parameter of the narrative, and would be DOA; but I'm curious what you think, especially the ladies.

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    The unexamined life is not worth living.

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    Senior Member NotAPretender's Avatar
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    Always picking on the liberals Fred...what a pity that no one ever takes pictures in public bathrooms...

    Disclaimer: I'm half asleep on my feet right now...

    If anyone has a complaint, now is the time to strike. I'm sure there are many. Something did occur to me, though. The notion of 'bypassing' in communication is a significant issue. For example, two people are talking and thinking they are eye-to-eye and on the same wavelength but they're not and then out of embarassment we start a war.

    I've been listening to women complain about 'disrespect' for God knows how many years and part of that time I was unsympathetic, and then I became indifferent, and then I woke up (kinda). Blame it on programming (I always have) but women feel intrinsically different about these issues. Who knows, it could be genetic, but women are not 'physically' predisposed to take a nonchalant attitude towards 'grabbing'. Men certainly do, with each other and with women. Women don't like it...I..I..I guessss?!
    Last edited by NotAPretender, 13th December 2017 at 21:00.
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    Senior Member Morocco modwiz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by NotAPretender View Post
    Always picking on the liberals Fred...what a pity that no one ever takes pictures in public bathrooms...

    Disclaimer: I'm half asleep on my feet right now...

    If anyone has a complaint, now is the time to strike. I'm sure there are many. Something did occur to me, though. The notion of 'bypassing' in communication is a significant issue. For example, two people are talking and thinking they are eye-to-eye and on the same wavelength but they're not and then out of embarassment we start a war.

    I've been listening to women complain about 'disrespect' for God knows how many years and part of that time I was unsympathetic, and then I became indifferent, and then I woke up (kinda). Blame it on programming (I always have) but women feel intrinsically different about these issues. Who knows, it could be genetic, but women are not 'physically' predisposed to take a nonchalant attitude towards 'grabbing'. Men certainly do, with each other and with women. Women don't like it...I..I..I guessss?!
    Some of us have escaped the contrivance of politics and therefore see with eyes that do not see labels and some still languish in this contrivance.. Your language reveals which of the 'some' you are.
    "To learn who rules over you simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize" -- Voltaire

    "Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people."-- Eleanor Roosevelt

    "Misery loves company. Wisdom has to look for it." -- Anonymous

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    Super Moderator United States Dreamtimer's Avatar
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    I think men already have, Fred. In fact, before this whole Me Too thing, TargeT was already talking about how men get raped more than women and that they're actually the disposable ones. He has posted about it and also talked about it on one of the TOT-casts saying that men's lives matter less.

    I don't really agree. They take the risks and they have decision-making powers. Women just don't have the power. Not yet anyway.

    And this current wave which has had momentum since the women's march right after the inauguration is in fact a sea change. I know others are already using that phrase but I haven't thought of a better one yet.

    My son and most of his friends would never abuse or even discriminate against women. They just weren't raised that way. The new generations will be different and women won't have to be like men in a men's world anymore. They can naturally network and sustain rather than always consume and compete and grow unnaturally.



    NAP, women don't like it, you guess? That's interesting.

    As a young woman I didn't like men grabbing me because if I didn't say anything then I was a slut and if I did protest I was a bitch and a cold fish and on and on. It's a lose/lose. If others see you getting grabbed and assume you 'wanted it' then maybe you want other things. Men can't help but take things as encouragement. If you give them a polite smile they think you're flirting. Maybe you get accused of sending mixed signals.

    Do people really not recall the whole "It's her fault, her sweater was too tight" thing? Really? I'm not that old.

    Why in the world would I want some man I don't know grabbing my body or trying to stick his tongue down my throat? What if he's a lot bigger than me? He could hurt me. I could be frightened, intimidated, etc. It could remind me of some very unpleasant family experiences. There are all kinds of reasons a woman doesn't want a guy to be sexual when it's not the time or place.

    It's not exactly pleasant to have someone just grab your crotch. They're sensitive things. It's not a pleasurable experience. It's a violation and it's gross and offensive.

    Do men not know how to seduce with words and smiles and romantic stuff? Really?

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    Senior Member NotAPretender's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by modwiz View Post
    Some of us have escaped the contrivance of politics and therefore see with eyes that do not see labels and some still languish in this contrivance.. Your language reveals which of the 'some' you are.


    Hi Dreamtimer,

    that was satire... but it is at least a small step to get from knowing to 'feeling' and then at least another step to get to sympathetic. Admittedly, it's been a LONG road for me. But it is time and it is happening, we are changing as a society and I, for one, am always a proponent for the new and improved.

    I think you've made a great point though...With proper respect, everyone can be what their spirit tells them to be...Nice.
    Last edited by NotAPretender, 13th December 2017 at 22:26.
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    Senior Member Amanda's Avatar
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    I think the key word here is: Respect. Grabbing me - never. Not for a joke not for fun - never. I would likewise never grab anyone. The art of being funny and of being fun - now there is a lost art if ever there was one. Yes/No/Maybe?

    Much Peace & Much Respect - Amanda

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    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    Women just don't have the power. Not yet anyway.

    And this current wave which has had momentum since the women's march right after the inauguration is in fact a sea change. I know others are already using that phrase but I haven't thought of a better one yet.

    My son and most of his friends would never abuse or even discriminate against women. They just weren't raised that way. The new generations will be different and women won't have to be like men in a men's world anymore. They can naturally network and sustain rather than always consume and compete and grow unnaturally.

    NAP, women don't like it, you guess? That's interesting.

    Do people really not recall the whole "It's her fault, her sweater was too tight" thing? Really? I'm not that old.
    I certainly don't think women who dress for fashion and seek social popularity and who flirt are "asking" to be grabbed. I am a woman and when I was young, I was very pretty (humbly admitted). I was not into flirting and I wore glasses. My interest was in ideas and ideals and my crushes were all brainiacs. I guess you could say I was the "librarian" type. My relationships with men were egalitarian because I was not playing with anyone who was like a "frat boy". I had boyfriends and as much attention as I wanted (which was very little wanted) and I was not grabbed, ogled and also, I was far from "popular" which suited me fine.

    I was and still am a feminist (according to my definition). When I was enjoying my younger "socially conscious and political" period, it never occurred to me that the same old NONSENSE is repackaged continuously and treated as if its a new "thing". Seriously I thought we were making permanent alterations towards liberty, egality and fraternity which I cherished. I still love these ideals no matter what anyone says about "co-intel pro" being the basis of all political ideals.

    I THOUGHT we were reaching some major enlightenment where the old nonsense was forgotten. I imagined a world with a general consensus that men and women are different but one is not "supposed to rule" the other, I considered the value of all earth life forms a no brainer, the need to cherish children as 'beings", not chattel simply basic ETC...

    Gee, I was surprised that these seeming basics to ME would not be seen as such. Unfortunately as I look at how my social world has stayed static (same old problems like mean people doing mean things for reasons they believe will take them forward), I understand the human race less and less. I don't feel the socially constructed world IS any more humane (according to my and only my definition) which means to me humans are not evolving. Evolution is a misguided perspective because IMO the world is made up of people who are only just learning through trial and error to live as human beings.

    Human beingness is so much more than the looks of a humanoid body type.
    Human beings to me are conscious of being conscious. Human beings IMO know that one's own responsibility is creating our inner thoughts, inner plans and inner intentions and that these then matter TO US. The whole implication of the story is that people have the possibility of being human. I imagine if anything, one would re-incarnate only because people do desire being human. I imagine that if I die a human being, I'll be interested in something different to try.

    When I look at the whole issue, I have in my new age become sick and tired of being sick and tired and therefore I am now throwing up my hands (metaphorically) and saying to myself.... I doubt there is any collective evolution possible. Well then, FINE!

    It's just FINE if It's each to her (or his) own. Maybe that is as it always is... one by one we get sick and tired of being sick and tired and take our attention to where something actually can change..... What can change is no longer waiting for society to stop being a kennel where many dogs are left untrained and bite.

    It's our own responsibility to offer up as intention and behavior what we value and stop looking for a consensus. look how consensus works and it is OBVIOUSLY made up of the most ignorance, the least health and the MOST neurotic opinions IMO.

    Therefore my committment now is to being humane, but not to please anyone or prove anything. I am now flippant about the probability that the human race in some whole cloth is progressing. Only individuals who decide >>NOT ME TOO <<and cannot be victimized, cannot be saved, cannot save and MOREOVER don't step on others toes, (much less rape and pillage) do so because we are interested in moving beyond the circular arguments. WE know that what WE OFFER goes around and comes around... and eventually we get sick of the STUPID "gag me" craven low vibes of the mass agreements. So we no longer agree to fit in and hehe hehe, no longer get the fall out of these agreements.

    I am stating my case and know it is not any kind of universal statement and that matters NOT ONE JOT... I still get my own offerings.
    Last edited by Maggie, 14th December 2017 at 01:55.

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    Senior Member NotAPretender's Avatar
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    that's a great statement. I do think we are evolving...the problem is that only some are, others are a little stuck. And each type tends to congregate with their 'kind'. And the worst offending groups are screaming at the top of their lungs 'they don't wanna go!'. To the detriment of their own genetic material.
    “If you cannot do great things, do small things in a great way.”

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    Senior Member Morocco modwiz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by NotAPretender View Post
    that's a great statement. I do think we are evolving...the problem is that only some are, others are a little stuck. And each type tends to congregate with their 'kind'. And the worst offending groups are screaming at the top of their lungs 'they don't wanna go!'. To the detriment of their own genetic material.
    If we leave politics out of conversations, suddenly our 'own kind' becomes almost everyone

    I work, play and make music with people I love everyday with people who voted one way or another. Keeping politics out of the conversation. Instead we discuss solutions we should be giving to the criminals in DC to carry out, if we "go there' at all. Political parties are boxes constructed for us but, not by us. It is a fool's game and gooberments are farms for fools. There is no logical reason for us to remain so impotent on our Earth, IMO.

    Better cut it out now. Fred wanted to hear from the ladies.
    "To learn who rules over you simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize" -- Voltaire

    "Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people."-- Eleanor Roosevelt

    "Misery loves company. Wisdom has to look for it." -- Anonymous

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    Senior Member NotAPretender's Avatar
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    ok, you got me thinking about the truth of that.... I'll try to contain myself and dispense with the labels... I'm hearing you now.
    “If you cannot do great things, do small things in a great way.”

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    Senior Member sandy's Avatar
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    Gee Fred, I really have to agree with Dreamtimer and Maggie and to hell with public appetite....if you want to say Me too!! say it and don't look for permission..............

    Men have their own peer pressures to get passed and to pony up the courage to appear less than APE_LIKE/STOIC/STRONG/UNAFFECTED/NON-CHALANT, ETC................don't wait until you are or full or rage to show your sorrow and loss ...if more of this happened there would be less violence in the world I suspect. I see only a Human Being when heart is in the lead and my heart opens in return.

    We are so afraid of our own emotions and what seems like not being in control when our feelings are on the front burner.....in essence one has never been in more control and more authentic than when identifying and integrating a feeling/vibration into oneness and eventual wholeness. It is called vulnerable, we are so real; it is scary........due to the foreign nature of keeping our inner most feelings out of reach and or at bay at all costs most of the time.

    So I have already said Me Too!! and will say it again if it can help shift anyone into a state of feeling, integrating and wholeness. It is call EVOLUTION. and for all you Me too-er's!!
    Last edited by sandy, 14th December 2017 at 06:00.

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    Super Moderator United States Dreamtimer's Avatar
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    I gotta say I do think we are advancing. We have less slavery and women are living in better conditions worldwide. It's a slow change, like Martin Luther King said. But it is positive.

    Just a couple centuries ago we were bug ridden, starved and ruled by monarchies and churches. (yes, that is western-centric. I think other parts of the world are doing better too).

    I'm pretty sure there's a great deal less actual emasculation going on in the world now as well. (don't look it up unless you have a strong stomach)

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    Super Moderator Norway Elen's Avatar
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    Me too girls (and guys)...how did I deal with it? I cut my long blond hair off, made it short, and it made a big difference!
    Whatever is true. Whatever is noble. Whatever is right. Whatever is lovely. Whatever is admirable. Anything of excellence and worthy of praise. Dwell on these things. Jesus Christ (I agree)

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    Super Moderator United States Dreamtimer's Avatar
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    Wearing glasses is good, too.

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    Senior Member Fred Steeves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by sandy View Post
    Gee Fred, I really have to agree with Dreamtimer and Maggie and to hell with public appetite....if you want to say Me too!! say it and don't look for permission..............
    Hiya Sandy!

    Just to be clear I don't have a Me Too! story. This movement/phenomena both fascinates me on the one hand, and worries me a bit on the other. McCarthyism comes to mind as in yes, there were true commies (as in there are certainly some true scumbags here being exposed), but the bar got low enough, and the appetite voracious enough, to include just about anyone on the political Left unfortunate enough to fall into disfavor.

    If I did have a Me Too! story, I doubt very seriously I'd go public with it. I just don't see the appetite for it, any more than there was no appetite for McCarthy to go after Nazi sympathizers for instance. The chips were all on one side of the table. Perhaps not the best analogy, but you catch my drift.
    The unexamined life is not worth living.

    Socrates

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