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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    Too much noise, not enough signal?

    I like to peruse different sources which include fivethirtyeight. They do numbers analyses and it's a group of people, men and women (not just Nate). It's not a news outlet so it's wonderfully free of the partisan shit even as it covers politics.

    It's also one of the only places that I see that does a good job of looking at all the crazy polls and making some sense of them.
    Nate Silver’s site is one of the very few I visit every day...but mostly for the sports info. His numbers/fact based approach is refreshing and his book is required reading if you are building any sort of predictions model.

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  3. #62
    Senior Member Fred Steeves's Avatar
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    I can still see those three guys dragging him out back, only now, 20 years later, all I can think about is the simple fact that two of those guys voted for Trump.
    That to me would be a case of cognitive dissonance, especially so if they had a year to watch this f**cking disgrace of a man in office and would STILL vote for him.
    The unexamined life is not worth living.

    Socrates

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  5. #63
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    I watched my parents become kind of enthralled with him when he did The Apprentice. They started ignoring a lot of the former concerns they'd had.

    Combine that with the need to be right/not be wrong and ego...yeah, major cognitive dissonance.

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    It took this guy a quarter century to see what was going on in front of him. Well, better late than never... (I used to hear Max Boot on the radio every Friday as part of a Friday news round-up panel. The bold is mine)



    In college — this was in the late 1980s and early 1990s at the University of California, Berkeley — I used to be one of those smart-alecky young conservatives who would scoff at the notion of “white male privilege” and claim that anyone propagating such concepts was guilty of “political correctness.” As a Jewish refugee from the Soviet Union, I felt it was ridiculous to expect me to atone for the sins of slavery and segregation, to say nothing of the household drudgery and workplace discrimination suffered by women. I wasn’t racist or sexist. (Or so I thought.) I hadn’t discriminated against anyone. (Or so I thought.) My ancestors were not slave owners or lynchers; they were more likely victims of the pogroms.

    I saw America as a land of opportunity, not a bastion of racism or sexism. I didn’t even think that I was a “white” person — the catchall category that has been extended to include everyone from a Mayflower descendant to a recently arrived illegal immigrant from Ireland. I was a newcomer to America who was eager to assimilate into this wondrous new society, and I saw its many merits while blinding myself to its dark side.

    Well, live and learn. A quarter century is enough time to examine deeply held shibboleths and to see if they comport with reality. In my case, I have concluded that my beliefs were based more on faith than on a critical examination of the evidence. In the last few years, in particular, it has become impossible for me to deny the reality of discrimination, harassment, even violence that people of color and women continue to experience in modern-day America from a power structure that remains for the most part in the hands of straight, white males. People like me, in other words. Whether I realize it or not, I have benefitted from my skin color and my gender — and those of a different gender or sexuality or skin color have suffered because of it.

    This sounds obvious, but it wasn’t clear to me until recently. I have had my consciousness raised. Seriously.

    This doesn’t meant that I agree with America’s harshest critics — successors to the New Left of the 1960s who saw this country as an irredeemably fascist state that they called “AmeriKKKa.” Judging by historical standards or those of the rest of the world, America remains admirably free and enlightened. Minorities are not being subject to ethnic cleansing like the Rohingya in Burma. Women are not forced to wear all-enveloping garments as in Saudi Arabia. No one is jailed for criticizing our supreme leader as in Russia.

    The country is becoming more aware of oppression and injustice, which have long permeated our society, precisely because of growing agitation to do something about it. Those are painful but necessary steps toward creating a more equal and just society. But we are not there yet, and it is wrong to pretend otherwise. It is even more pernicious to cling to the conceit, so popular among Donald Trump’s supporters, that straight white men are the “true” victims because their unquestioned position of privilege is now being challenged by uppity women, gay people, and people of color.

    I used to take a reflexively pro-police view of arguments over alleged police misconduct, thinking that cops were getting a bum rap for doing a tough, dangerous job. I still have admiration for the vast majority of police officers, but there is no denying that some are guilty of mistreating the people they are supposed to serve. Not all the victims of police misconduct are minorities — witness a blonde Australian woman shot to death by a Minneapolis police officer after she called 911, or an unarmed white man shot to death by a Mesa, Arizona, officer while crawling down a hotel hallway — but a disproportionate share are.

    The videos do not lie. One after another, we have seen the horrifying evidence on film of cops arresting, beating, even shooting black people who were doing absolutely nothing wrong or were stopped for trivial misconduct. For African-Americans, and in particular African-American men, infractions like jaywalking or speeding or selling cigarettes without tax stamps can incite corporal, or even capital, punishment without benefit of judge or jury. African-Americans have long talked about being stopped for “driving while black.” I am ashamed to admit I did not realize what a serious and common problem this was until the videotaped evidence emerged. The iPhone may well have done more to expose racism in modern-day America than the NAACP.

    Of course, the problem is not limited to the police; they merely reflect the racism of our society, which is not as severe as it used to be but remains real enough. I realized how entrenched this problem remains when an African-American friend — a well-educated, well-paid, well-dressed woman — confessed that she did not want to walk into a department store carrying in her purse a pair of jeans that she planned to give to a friend later in the day. Why not? Because she was afraid that she would be accused of shoplifting! This is not something that would occur to me, simply because the same suspicion would not attach to a middle-aged, middle-class white man.

    The larger problem of racism in our society was made evident in Donald Trump’s election, despite — or because of — his willingness to dog-whistle toward white nationalists with his pervasive bashing of Mexicans, Muslims, and other minorities. Trump even tried to delegitimize the first African-American president by claiming he wasn’t born in this country, and now he goes after African-American football players who kneel during the playing of the anthem to protest police brutality. (Far from being concerned about police misconduct, which disproportionately targets people of color, Trump actively encourages it.)

    Adam Serwer argues persuasively in the Atlantic that Trump’s election could not be explained by “economic anxiety,” because the poorest voters — those making less than $50,000 a year — voted predominantly for Hillary Clinton. On the other hand, “Trump defeated Clinton among white voters in every income category,” from those making less than $30,000 to those making more than $250,000. In other words, Serwer writes, Trump does not lead a “working-class coalition; it is a nationalist one.” That doesn’t mean that every Trump supporter is a racist; it does mean that Trump’s victory has revealed that racism and xenophobia are more widespread than I had previously realized.

    As for sexism, its scope has been made plain by the horrifying revelations of widespread harassment, assault, and even rape perpetrated by powerful men from Hollywood to Washington. The Harvey Weinstein scandal has opened the floodgates, leading to the naming and shaming of a growing list of rich and powerful men — including Kevin Spacey, Louis C.K., Charlie Rose, Matt Lauer, Roy Moore, and John Conyers — who are alleged to have abused their positions of authority to force themselves upon women or, in some cases, men.

    As with the revelations of police brutality, so too with sexual harassment: I am embarrassed and ashamed that I did not understand how bad the problem is. I had certainly gotten some hints from my female friends of the kind of harassment they have endured, but I never had any idea it was this bad or this common — or this tolerated. Even now, while other men are being fired for their misconduct, Trump continues to sit in the Oval Office despite credible allegations of sexual assault from nearly 20 different women.

    I now realize something I should have learned long ago: that feminist activists had a fair point when they denounced the “patriarchy” for oppressing women. Sadly, this oppression, while less severe than it used to be, remains a major problem in spite of the impressive strides the U.S. has taken toward greater gender equality.

    This doesn’t mean that I am about to join the academic political correctness brigade in protesting “microaggressions” and agitating against free speech. I remain a classical liberal, and I am disturbed by attempts to infringe on freedom of speech in the name in fighting racism, sexism, or other ills. But I no longer think, as I once did, that “political correctness” is a bigger threat than the underlying racism and sexism that continue to disfigure our society decades after the civil rights and women’s rights movements. If the Trump era teaches us anything, it is how far we still have to go to realize the “unalienable Rights” of all Americans to enjoy “Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness,” regardless of gender, sexuality, religion, or skin color.

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  9. #65
    Senior Member Fred Steeves's Avatar
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    From the tone of this piece, sounds to me like if white (and especially Conservative) men can be put in their place everything will begin to even out. That most other hands are clean in this deal. All this mentality invites, IMO, is yet another era of power and control to seamlessly replace the former, when the going gets too rough as tends to happen throughout history.

    Why are problems and solutions still hinging upon Left vs. Right/ Obama vs. Trump/ White vs. Black/Man vs. Woman/ Gay vs. Straight/ etc...?

    WTF?
    The unexamined life is not worth living.

    Socrates

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    Senior Member Emil El Zapato's Avatar
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    No Fred, that is where the analogies break down and where most conservatives can't see to the other side. It's not a matter of power and who has the last word...it is totally about equanimity and cooperation...that's all.

    Equanimity was a bad choice for explanation, while equanimity is an integral part of the solution, it is most assuredly about magnanimity as well.
    Last edited by Emil El Zapato, 29th December 2017 at 00:22.
    “El revolucionario: te meteré la bota en el culo"

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    I certainly didn't see a divide being at the heart of this piece. I saw someone coming out of the divide into understanding. He specifically said he's not down with the squelching of speech. If that ain't at the heart of our democracy, what is?

    The very first Amendment is about speech. Which is what brings us together.

    Guns divide us very easily.

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    Quote Originally posted by NotAPretender View Post
    No Fred, that is where the analogies break down and where most conservatives can't see to the other side. It's not a matter of power and who has the last word...it is totally about equanimity and cooperation...that's all.

    Equanimity was a bad choice for explanation, while equanimity is an integral part of the solution, it is most assuredly about magnanimity as well.
    Correct me if I'm wrong (Fred), but it seems all that Fred is saying is that to move forward we need to do away with the (idea of) the things that divide us otherwise the "power structures" that control us will remain the same. I am pretty much in agreement that these paradigms tend to hurt more than help. Treating people as individuals is key to my mind.

    Apologies if I've misinterpreted anyone.

    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    Guns divide us very easily.
    Politics even more so.

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    Senior Member Emil El Zapato's Avatar
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    it's very true...if only people would REALLY practice that. I do have a deep philosophical issue with authoritarianism, selfishness, and self-righteous judgment... Conservatism is symbolic of human values and is useful for dialog but as you point out not much else. I have family and close friends that are patently conservative and even the best of them have for me disconcerting qualities. Disconcerting is not a judgmental term, it is a self-descriptive term of dis-ease.
    “El revolucionario: te meteré la bota en el culo"

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    In this interview at 6:20 Lara Setrakien talks about the men who were very supportive and protective in the workplace.


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    I noticed Schneiderman first used the Cat and Mouse defense. He said he engages in role play.

    He stepped down anyway.

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    Senior Member Emil El Zapato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    I noticed Schneiderman first used the Cat and Mouse defense. He said he engages in role play.

    He stepped down anyway.
    Here's my take:

    The dynamic is set up by gender but it is not really about gender, it is more about a mismatch of crazy.

    I was cohabitating with a lady in an arrangement of convenience for both of us more than any thing else. In the space of about a half hour she called the police on me essentially because I wasn't doing what she wanted me to do. She threateded to kill me and when I decided it was all too crazy for me and decided to leave she threatened to 'kick my ass' which I thought ludicrous but anyway. As I was walking out you can trust that the eyes behind my head were fully open. That was the last time I ever saw her.

    If this lady had been matched up with Schneidermann it would have been a tossup as to who ended up dead.
    Last edited by Emil El Zapato, 9th May 2018 at 13:27.
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    Quote Originally posted by Fred Steeves View Post
    From the tone of this piece, sounds to me like if white (and especially Conservative) men can be put in their place everything will begin to even out. That most other hands are clean in this deal. All this mentality invites, IMO, is yet another era of power and control to seamlessly replace the former, when the going gets too rough as tends to happen throughout history.

    Why are problems and solutions still hinging upon Left vs. Right/ Obama vs. Trump/ White vs. Black/Man vs. Woman/ Gay vs. Straight/ etc...?

    WTF?
    no pun intended but, dare i say black and white thinking?

    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    I certainly didn't see a divide being at the heart of this piece. I saw someone coming out of the divide into understanding.
    agreed!!

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    Returning Topic

    And apparently another one bites the dust. The Guardian reports that Morgan Freeman has been accused of sexual harassment by eight women. USA Today is also publishing an article about it, as are yet a couple of other mainstream news outlets.
    = DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR =

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    Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kuKcX8QrOM



    A good distraction for a while for some people.
    Last edited by enjoy being, 25th May 2018 at 08:01.

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