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Thread: Understanding Trump - Fixing the System

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    Quote Originally posted by NotAPretender View Post
    Hi Herbert,

    all true, what is in question here is 'who is in fact driving this paradigm'. Everything else I agree with.

    Here's my fundamental position:

    The only thing that has chaged in the last 300 hundred years is that sane members of the right have distanced themselves from the left/right paradigm because they know that the remaining right is insane, but at the same time they can't countenance the existence of the left. The only approach left standing is denial of the left/right paradigm, as in 'They're all the same'. They never have been and never will be. Unfortunately, for all the former 'sane' right wishes, it still in reality exists.

    With the birth of the alt-right, all the former righties found a home, but again, another serious mistake was made. The alt-right, as we are discovering, is as disgusting as the remaining insane right, if not worse. We can use Steve Bannon as a perfect example. This guy is an anarchist (not that there's anyting wrong with that), but his 'anarchy' seems suspiciously close to white supremacy or to fall into that well-known meme, Nazism.

    For better or for worse, we can blame the Bush's for the epiphany of the right (as I alluded to in an earlier post). Hard reality is a bitter pill to swallow.
    Just one minor thing. Steve Bannon is NOT an Anarchist by any stretch of the imagination. Anyone who holds a public position isn't. I also noticed you associated (in an earlier post) "right wing" with Libertarianism too. Also a mistake in my view. I realise colloquially it's meaning may approach something like that but I really don't feel Anarchism or Liberatarianism are associated with a left/right paradigm.

    And further to the left/right paradigm. It basically breaks down to progressive/conservative views. As I see it, in any given situation, you may want to be progressive or conservative. Why align yourself to one camp if both view points can be valuable or even necessary in the convolution that is life.

    Quote Originally posted by Wind View Post
    Horribly pedantic of me (as I'm a huge Jimi fan) but Jimi never played a Tele...

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  3. #47
    Administrator Aragorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Lemual View Post
    Just one minor thing. Steve Bannon is NOT an Anarchist by any stretch of the imagination. Anyone who holds a public position isn't. I also noticed you associated (in an earlier post) "right wing" with Libertarianism too. Also a mistake in my view. I realise colloquially it's meaning may approach something like that but I really don't feel Anarchism or Liberatarianism are associated with a left/right paradigm.
    And you are correct in that. Instead of a left-right horizon, a more appropriate representation of political orientations would be a compass, with the traditional left and right on the West-East axis, and authoritarianism versus libertarianism on the North-South axis. And when it comes to the USA, both the Democrats and the Republicans would then solidly be in the top right quadrant, with the Democrats only just marginally closer to the vertical center line. Europe generally balances around that vertical center line, but also solidly remains in the top half.

    Myself, I would be somewhere in the lower left quadrant, which is where the political convictions of Mahatma Gandhi and Nelson Mandela resided.

    Quote Originally posted by Lemual View Post
    Horribly pedantic of me (as I'm a huge Jimi fan) but Jimi never played a Tele...
    I was wondering about that myself, but there is a rumor that he actually used Noel Redding's Telecaster for the studio recording of "Purple Haze". He either way owned and used a whole slew of guitars, including a Squier Strat with a single humbucker in the bridge position, a Fender Jaguar, a Danelectro Shorthorn, at least two white Gibson SG Customs (one early 1960s "Les Paul" SG with the small pickguard and one post-1966 with the larger pickguard), at least one (black) Gibson Les Paul Custom, and at least two Gibson Flying Vs (one white and one black, the latter with psychedelic painting by himself). He also used an Epiphone, but I'm not sure whether it was a Crestwood, a Wilshire or a Coronet. But of course, his main axe was always the Fender Stratocaster, and he certainly owned a great number of those.

    Jimi also never cared about matching his live sound to the sounds and guitars he was using at the studio. When playing live gigs, he would play the entire set using whatever guitar(s) he happened to have with him — whether it was a Gibson or a Fender, it didn't matter to him. He was a "shoot from the hip" kind of guy, and he preferred loose jam-like arrangements over tightly rehearsed solos.
    = DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR =

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    Quote Originally posted by Lemual View Post
    Why align yourself to one camp if both view points can be valuable or even necessary in the convolution that is life.
    From my observations it's that people are basically tribal in nature, pick a team and stick with them no matter what. We see it in gangs, sports, politics, all the way up the scale to international conflict. Us vs. them, the good guys vs. the bad guys.

    And of course my team is always the good guys, the colors I'm sporting so proudly proves it beyond all doubt.
    The unexamined life is not worth living.

    Socrates

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    Quote Originally posted by Fred Steeves View Post
    From my observations it's that people are basically tribal in nature, pick a team and stick with them no matter what. We see it in gangs, sports, politics, all the way up the scale to international conflict. Us vs. them, the good guys vs. the bad guys.

    And of course my team is always the good guys, the colors I'm sporting so proudly proves it beyond all doubt.
    Why stop there Fred..."My God is better than Yours"
    Whatever is true. Whatever is noble. Whatever is right. Whatever is lovely. Whatever is admirable. Anything of excellence and worthy of praise. Dwell on these things. Jesus Christ (I agree)

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    Senior Member NotAPretender's Avatar
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    I was laughed at once when I stated my true political position:

    Be Kind!

    libertarianism and authoritarianism are not opposite poles in my estimation. Libertarians are just authoritarians that never grew up! Not kiddding!
    “If you cannot do great things, do small things in a great way.”

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    Quote Originally posted by NotAPretender View Post
    libertarianism and authoritarianism are not opposite poles in my estimation. Libertarians are just authoritarians that never grew up! Not kiddding!
    Well, okay, I admit that I've only just gotten out of bed and that my neurons may still need some time to achieve normal operating temperature, but I'm afraid you're going to have to clarify that one to me.

    Libertarianism, to me, is what Robert Heinlein referred to as "responsible anarchism". I fail to see any authoritarianism in that.
    = DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR =

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    Quote Originally posted by Aragorn View Post
    Well, okay, I admit that I've only just gotten out of bed and that my neurons may still need some time to achieve normal operating temperature, but I'm afraid you're going to have to clarify that one to me.

    Libertarianism, to me, is what Robert Heinlein referred to as "responsible anarchism". I fail to see any authoritarianism in that.
    I'm with you on this one. I kinda like that term too, responsible anarchism

    As for the Jimi "Tele" rumour I'd heard that too. I also read recently that that wasn't necessarily true. I think your "somewhat implied" point stands, Jimi would and did play whatever was at hand... and made it sound AMAZING!!!

    So Aragorn, do you play or are you just a massive music nerd?

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    Quote Originally posted by Aragorn View Post
    Well, okay, I admit that I've only just gotten out of bed and that my neurons may still need some time to achieve normal operating temperature, but I'm afraid you're going to have to clarify that one to me.

    Libertarianism, to me, is what Robert Heinlein referred to as "responsible anarchism". I fail to see any authoritarianism in that.
    Trump Derangement Syndrome is a very real thing in the USA. The unaffected discuss how to best address it with each other. Very difficult with the MSM providing a constant narrative that feeds the syndrome. We need to speak to each other as humans with common interests and a common adversary. Something that politics is designed to prevent at the core of its construct.

    BTW. I could not find a line of logic with the libertarian/authoritarian conflation.
    "To learn who rules over you simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize" -- Voltaire

    "Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people."-- Eleanor Roosevelt

    "Misery loves company. Wisdom has to look for it." -- Anonymous

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    Quote Originally posted by modwiz View Post
    Trump Derangement Syndrome is a very real thing in the USA.
    I think this may be true in any country with a heavily "westernised" (for lack of a better term) media. Here in Oz there's always a huge "to-do" over Trump and his various doings.

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    Quote Originally posted by Lemual View Post
    So Aragorn, do you play or are you just a massive music nerd?
    Yes, I'm a musician, and I have played with a couple of bands, as well as in live jam contexts — my most active period was the 1990s — but alas, due to a whole variety of circumstances, I haven't exactly been playing much anymore in the last 15 years. It's a pity.

    I started playing the guitar at the age of 16 — completely self-taught — on a cheap Japanese-made Stratocaster copy, which I've played for ten years. Even though I no longer own my very first guitar, I do still own each and every guitar I've acquired since then, including a cheap but well-made Yamaha acoustic which I inherited from my younger brother when he got married, and a 1994 Ibanez TC-530 Talman which I won in a lottery during a Jennifer Batten guitar clinic in 1994, even though that's not my style of guitar.

    At present time, I own twelve guitars in total, two of which are acoustics — see the table below. My current amplifier — which I've already owned for about 17 years now — is a Marshall JCM 2000 TSL-100 head, sitting on top of a Marshall JCM 900 "1960 Lead" cabinet with four Celestion speakers. For effects, I've got various setups I can use. I've got a Boss GT-10 multi-effects processor, an older Zoom 8080 multi-effects processor, and a small carrying box with four Boss pedals — the box doubles as a pedal board when you take off the lid.


    Built/Bought Brand & Model Pickup Configuration
    ~1987/1989
    1993/1993
    1994/1994
    1997/1998
    2002/2002
    2002/2003
    2003/2005
    2007/2007
    2007/2007
    2008/2008

    ~1983/1992
    1999/1999
    Aria Pro II RS Knight Warrior
    Ibanez R-470
    Ibanez TC-530 Talman
    Ibanez S-540 FM
    Gibson SG Special "Pete Townshend Signature"
    Gibson Les Paul Standard Mahogany
    Gibson Firebird VII
    Gibson SG-3
    Gibson SG Standard w/ 3 single-coils
    ESP/Ltd F-250

    Yamaha FG 350 (acoustic)
    Ovation Celebrity (electric-acoustic)
    SSH with rail-type bars
    HSH (Ibanez V1, S1, V2)
    3 Kent Armstrong Sky-100 lipstick tubes
    HSH (Ibanez QM1, QMS1, QM2)
    2 Gibson P-90
    3 Seymour Duncan SH-6 "Duncan Distortion"
    3 Gibson Firebird minihumbuckers
    2 Gibson 57 Classic, 1 Gibson 57 Classic Plus
    3 Gibson single-coils with rail bars
    2 ESP passive humbuckers with EMG-style covers

    n/a
    piezo, 9V preamp with 3-band EQ


    My influences are all over the place, and are as eclectic as you can imagine them to be. When I started playing, I was heavily influenced by Tom Scholz and Barry Goudreau of Boston, 1960s- and 1970s-era Carlos Santana, Hank B. Marvin of The Shadows, Mark Knopfler of Dire Straits, Nile Rodgers of Chic, Ritchie Blackmore of Deep Purple and Rainbow, and Lindsay Buckingham of Fleetwood Mac — specifically the "Rumours" album.

    Later on I became more influenced by hard rock guitarists such as Gary Moore and Eddie Van Halen, and then later on I discovered Steve Vai, Joe Satriani, Paul Gilbert (during his Mr. Big tenure), Nuno Bettencourt (of Extreme), and more recently, the incredible Guthrie Govan. However, one guitarist who has continued to influence me ever since the mid 1980s is Steve Lukather (of Toto), because his musical style comes closest to what I enjoy doing the most, i.e. a mixture of jazz-fusion with hard rock and prog rock influences, blended with funk and just a slight touch of Jimi Hendrix during the more bluesy passages.


    Anyway...
    = DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR =

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    Super Moderator United States Dreamtimer's Avatar
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    Wowagorn! Shred it!

    Be sure not to wear your colors in the wrong neighborhood Fred.

    Trump Derangement Syndrome comes in different flavors. For instance, those who worship and see him as the savior who's gonna bust up the system, and those who are consumed by hatred and/or fear.

    Both are very dangerous.

    Trump represents a small percentage of all Americans. What is setting him apart the most is his continued focus on only those Americans. He has not yet chosen to lead the whole country.

    And yet we all bear the responsibility and consequences of his presidency.

    The taking from the blue states to give money to the red states is pretty brutally ironic. But why not extend the long-running corporate welfare to embrace political welfare? Both the failed health care reform bill and the current tax bill would take from the blue states to give to the red.

    Conservative? Hardly.

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    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    Wowagorn! Shred it!



    Trump Derangement Syndrome comes in different flavors. For instance, those who worship and see him as the savior who's gonna bust up the system, and those who are consumed by hatred and/or fear.

    Both are very dangerous.
    "To learn who rules over you simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize" -- Voltaire

    "Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people."-- Eleanor Roosevelt

    "Misery loves company. Wisdom has to look for it." -- Anonymous

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    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    Trump Derangement Syndrome comes in different flavors. For instance, those who worship and see him as the savior who's gonna bust up the system, and those who are consumed by hatred and/or fear.

    Both are very dangerous.
    I'll follow suit and give that one a two thumbs up.

    Quote Originally posted by NotAPretender View Post
    libertarianism and authoritarianism are not opposite poles in my estimation. Libertarians are just authoritarians that never grew up! Not kiddding!
    This one on the other hand, gets two of these...
    Last edited by Fred Steeves, 10th December 2017 at 14:03.
    The unexamined life is not worth living.

    Socrates

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    Senior Member United States Dumpster Diver's Avatar
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    Frankly all labels, especially political, are starting to offend me lately. I see these words as devices to divide us.

    ...certainly, none of them fit me anymore. And I suspect, don’t really fit you as well.
    "Holding onto anger is like drinking poison and expecting the object of your anger to die” ~ Anon
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    Senior Member NotAPretender's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Aragorn View Post
    Well, okay, I admit that I've only just gotten out of bed and that my neurons may still need some time to achieve normal operating temperature, but I'm afraid you're going to have to clarify that one to me.

    Libertarianism, to me, is what Robert Heinlein referred to as "responsible anarchism". I fail to see any authoritarianism in that.


    Well again...I would certainly go with that definition and probably fall into the category myself. But that is why I was so disappointed when I recognized the personalities/behaviors of notable practicing Libertarians. I often use self-proclaimed 'Communists' such as Stalin as examples of historical frauds that have hidden behind a facade of political philosophy. Stalin was an authoritarian fascist that besmirched the name of Communism. It and he are still used today to demonstrate how dysfunctional and anti-humanity it is. It was not intended to be used in the fashion of its bastardization. We can thank those such as Stalin for that. That isn't to say that I would wish raw Communism on any society, any more than I'm comfortable with raw Capitalism.

    But to get to the point as I mentioned that most notable Libertarians are about freedom for the big 'I' and the rest of the world be damned and that does not exemplify responsibility. It is immature authoritarianism however with the 'I' at the top. Anytime there is a top there is a hierarchy which is contradictory to the sense of anarchy.

    Check them out.


    It just occurred to me that one cannot espouse or advocate for anarchical freedom/Libertarianism. That is a contradiction in and of itself. One has to live it and NEVER talk about it.

    Ok, I admit, I am a closet anarchist. Give this some thought!
    Last edited by NotAPretender, 10th December 2017 at 16:05.
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