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Thread: Together we make a difference

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    Together we make a difference

    Together we make a difference

    In this thread I want to explore the motto of this forum, not only in terms of the collective of which any forum is one embodiment, but also in terms of the individual, being itself another (paradoxical) embodiment of the collective. We pay lip service to unity out of diversity, ‘E pluribus unum’ being for example the motto of the United States. But it is not just some ideal we strive towards; it is a prerequisite for both individual and collective morality and sanity. Disunity on a moral level is duplicity. Disunity on a mental level is schizophrenia. Disunity on a family level is divorce and single-parent families. Disunity at national level is struggles for independence repressed as being treasonous. Disunity at international level can lead to war and ultimately destruction of civilization, humanity, the planet itself. Togetherness, being the opposite of all these things and more, is not an option or distant ideal. While from the perspective of eternity, nothing is in any way urgent, from the perspective of this planet at this time, going crazy both individually and collectively, togetherness I would say is the most pressing need that requires addressing right now.

    When I started working on this idea, back in August, I came across this in the Guardian:
    Cézanne not only anticipates Picasso but also Proust and Joyce as he meditates on the nature of the self. We are not continuous beings, his portraits suggest. We are mysteries to ourselves and others, divided and fragmentary behind our masks. He is the true inventor both of modern art and the modern soul.
    https://www.theguardian.com/artandde...ant-garde-away
    The above immediately puts a name to the glue holding the whole person together: soul. But merely naming things we don’t understand as a form of magic has been around forever and is possibly a cause of our difficulties, and at least a major stumbling-block. Back in the Garden of Eden, Adam started out by putting names to everything. Sometimes, however, names offer insight. But sometimes the insight is just another layer of questioning. In the kabbalah, the numerical value of the word adam (man) is 45, where the number 45 is written ‘ma’, meaning ‘what?’ This leads to the conclusion, ‘Man is a “what?”: his essence is the force of dynamic questioning (...) Man adam-ma is an opening to the future.’ (M.A. Ouaknin, Mystères de la kabbale). So when we talk about man, we are basically referring to an unknown quantity, one problematical aspect of which is what we call the soul. In this regard, it would seem that Heisenberg’s uncertainty principle is at work: the more we learn about the brain, the less we understand about the soul. Indeed, the more we place the emphasis on the brain, the less we see the need for a soul at all.

    Cézanne is also the subject of a chapter in a book I have been reading, Proust Was a Neuroscientist, by Jonah Lehrer.
    https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/...Neuroscientist
    This book is about artists (painters, writers, musicians...) who anticipate not so much each other as the discoveries of neuroscience. In this chapter the author discusses evidence of neuroscience’s later discovery of five layers of the visual cortex (numbered V1 to V5) as found in Cézanne’s painting.
    Hubel and Wiesel (...) had glimpsed the raw material of vision, and it was completely abstract. Our brain cells were strange things, fascinated not by dots of light but by angles of lines (...) Cézanne’s paintings echo this secret geometry of lines sensed by the visual cortex. It’s as if he broke the brain apart and saw how seeing occurs. (...)

    Neuroscientists now know that what we end up seeing is highly influenced by something called top-down processing, a term that describes the way cortical brain layers project down and influence (corrupt, some might say) our actual sensations. After the inputs of the eye enter the brain, they are immediately sent along two separate pathways, one of which is fast and one of which is slow. The fast pathway quickly transmits a coarse and blurry picture to our prefrontal cortex, a brain region involved in conscious thought. Meanwhile, the slow pathway takes a meandering route through the visual cortex, which begins meticulously analyzing and refining the lines of light. The slow image arrives at the prefrontal cortex about fifty milliseconds after the fast image.

    Why does the mind see everything twice? Because our visual cortex needs help. After the prefrontal cortex receives its imprecise picture, the “top” of the brain quickly decides what the “bottom” has seen and begins doctoring the sensory data. Form is imposed onto the formless rubble of the V1; the outside world is forced to conform to our expectations. If these interpretations are removed, our reality becomes unrecognizable. The light just isn’t enough. (...) In his art, Cézanne made this mental process self-evident. While he deconstructed his paintings until they were on the verge of unraveling, his paintings don’t unravel, and that is their secret. Instead, they tremble on the edge of existence, full of fractures and fissures that have to be figured out.
    This chapter is a good place to point out the limits of the author’s method. We know there is something wrong when he describes Manet’s The Luncheon on the Grass as ‘a scandalous picture of a naked woman in a park who doesn’t seem to know she is naked’. In my view, a more precise description of that painting would be, ‘a reflective picture of a nude model in a studio who knows exactly what she is about.’ Manet comes up in a section about Cézanne’s feud with Emile Zola, ‘the proud founder of naturalism, a new school of literature that aspired to write “the scientific novel.” The novelist, Zola declared, must literally become a scientist, “employing the experimental method in the study of man.”’ You sense some kind of problem brewing when the neuroscientist sides with the artist against the scientist-novelist.

    If Zola was a scientist at all, it was very much a nineteenth century one, one who had not begun to assimilate the role of the observer in the quest for objectivity.
    If Cézanne’s paintings made our subjectivity their subject, Zola’s novels were determined to turn man into just another object. The artist, Zola said, must “disappear, and simply show what he has seen. The tender intervention of the writer weakens a novel, and introduces a strange element into the facts which destroys their scientific value.”
    Lehrer makes a big fuss of the disagreement. However, since Zola ends up admitting he had misunderstood Cézanne, whose painting he now finds ‘unbelievably sincere and truthful’, it is more important to understand how they (and Lehrer) came to be in agreement. It is not an issue of subjectivity versus objectivity, but one of spirituality versus materiality. Lehrer’s point is that not only Proust but Cézanne and the rest of them are neuroscientists, i.e. discovering things about a physical organ, the brain. We are implicitly invited to accept that the brain is the ‘modern soul’, to quote the phrase of the author of the Guardian article.

    Cézanne’s work may start out as being subjective, analyzing his own brain; but once he becomes a neuroscientist, he slips into the objective description of the human brain generally. If that is all he is doing, then he fails to address soul issues at all: what makes you you and me me and all of us unique. This is not what I understand by togetherness. It is the difference between picking apples from a supermarket shelf and picking apples from a tree: in one case, they all look artificially the same, in the other they all look really different. To be sure, if we see attaining peace in the world as overcoming our differences, then calibration is the way to go – a rather soulless way. On the other hand, if we see the richness of our differences as a way to live in peace, then little has been achieved by describing ‘the way cortical brain layers project down and influence (corrupt, some might say) our actual sensations’. ‘Corrupt’ might indeed be a better word than ‘influence’.

    The bottom line is that Cézanne is presenting an incomplete picture of the world, to be completed by the mind. Lehrer compares this to what one of Oliver Sacks’s patients could see: the ‘man who mistook his wife for a hat’. This is not a mental health issue, any more that my shortsightedness makes me crazy (although it does sometimes drive me mad ). It is a visual health issue. Hence, if Lehrer can criticize Degas and Monet because of severe myopy and oncoming blindness – in the same sentence as he dismisses Van Gogh as ‘a drinker of kerosene, turpentine and absinthe – then he ought not to be entirely happy with Cézanne displaying this other disorder. His position amounts to validating neuroscience on the basis of corroboratory evidence from artists operating through malfunctioning senses; and he defends this position by criticizing other artists for operating through malfunctioning senses. Hence, if this is how the brain works, and the brain is all there is, then we are surely all doomed!

    It comes down to Baudelaire’s criticism of photography, which Lehrer also describes, mentioning the poet’s ultimate insult directed at the photographer: a ‘materialist’. This is the basis for the Impressionists’ rejection of the pseudo-realism of photography:
    The camera, they believed, was a liar. Its precision was false. Why? Because reality did not consist of static images. Because the camera stops time, which cannot be stopped; because it renders everything in focus, when everything is never in focus. Because the eye is not a lens, and the brain is not a machine. (...) As Baudelaire insisted, they painted what the camera left out.
    There is a reverse symmetry with Cézanne’s method, which is about leaving out what the eyes miss and the mind can fill in.
    visual experience transcends visual sensations. Cézanne’s mountain arose from the empty canvas because the brain, in a brazen attempt to make sense of the painting, filled in its details. This is a necessary instinct. If the mind didn’t impose itself on the eye, then our vision would be full of voids (...) our brain unfailingly registers a seamless world (...) a result of human cortical anatomy.
    Hence, Cézanne is complimented for being a materialist on the basis of what he leaves out! If that is what he is doing, then I would call that... idealism. The empty space, what is left out, is the battleground where everything unassimilated, and everything downright dishonest, plays out, and where imaginary and/or alien entities can be introduced. Anything goes. This was the empty space that Manet started to fill in. When classical artists were still painting naked goddesses from models who were underpaid actresses, laundrywomen and maybe prostitutes, Manet painted what his eyes saw only too well: underpaid actresses, laundrywomen and prostitutes. And his viewers found themselves caught in the act of enjoying an eyeful: no longer respectable people admiring the nudes in museums but dirty old men ogling at flesh for sale in brothels. That is Manet being a materialist, in accordance with the ideas of Baudelaire, for whom the very word was anathema!

    Hence not only is this is not an issue of subjectivity versus objectivity, neither is it one of spirituality versus materiality. It is a matter of togetherness: where subjectivity and objectivity meet; where spirituality and materiality (idealism and materialism) meet. Manet was painting real people.

    So, in the absence of this insight, basically what we are seeing is neuroscience making excuses for the Harvey Weinstein in every man: it is the brain’s fault if they are not seeing certain things. The man who mistook a woman for a sex toy is merely a victim of human cortical anatomy. If that is so, then, paraphrasing the philosopher Voltaire, if the soul did not exist, we would need to invent one. According to the philosopher and mathematician Blaise Pascal, 'man is neither angel nor beast, and unhappily whoever wants to act the angel, acts the beast.' It would seem that man is BOTH angel and beast, and whoever wants to act the angel needs to put the angel in charge.

    The area we need to explore then would be reconciling the rational mind with the psyche, which is fundamentally irrational, in ways that are not certifiably mad or otherwise destructive. But before coming to that, my next post will look at Lehrer’s take on Virginia Woolf as a neuroscientist, and my take on the paradox whereby this great writer ended up one morning putting stones in her pockets and walking into an ice-cold river. At some stage, the affairs of eccentric artists do actually become a mental health problem. Virginia Woolf’s brand of neuroscience did nothing to alleviate her depression. Why? And why is this not even an issue?

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    Quote Originally Posted by araucaria View Post
    [...] In this regard, it would seem that Heisenberg’s uncertainty principle is at work: the more we learn about the brain, the less we understand about the soul. [...]
    I really like this sentence, and I wholeheartedly agree with it.
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    Senior Member NotAPretender's Avatar
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    Just a thought that a creative scientist might entertain:

    The realm within Planck's constant is the creator's realm where uncertainty becomes certain and free wll becomes manifest, unfortunately for the objective human mind it is not allowed access.

    For the 'dysfunctional' Artiste:

    The soul in most cases does exist but many are not even remotely aware of it and that is why we have many Harveys. He is a victim of his neuroanatomy lacking a spiritual center but not only that, he is potentially a victim of circumstances. Victims pay society back after the fashion of the classic Three Faces of victimization so we should not by default scream for retribution. We need a much deeper sense of justice.

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    Emphasis via bold is mine...

    Quote Originally Posted by NotAPretender View Post
    Just a thought that a creative scientist might entertain:

    The realm within Planck's constant is the creator's realm where uncertainty becomes certain and free wll becomes manifest, unfortunately for the objective human mind it is not allowed access.
    Or, perhaps it is where certainty becomes irrelevant and is no longer required?

    Quote Originally Posted by NotAPretender View Post
    For the 'dysfunctional' Artiste:

    The soul in most cases does exist but many are not even remotely aware of it and that is why we have many Harveys. He is a victim of his neuroanatomy lacking a spiritual center but not only that, he is potentially a victim of circumstances.
    I do not necessarily agree with that, even though I will acknowledge that neurophysiology does have a very strong influence on our day-to-day human behavior.

    But isn't our physical makeup in general — and thus also the structure of our brain — more or less a reflection of the soul? For instance, it would stand to reason that evil souls would incarnate as psychopaths.

    Quote Originally Posted by NotAPretender View Post
    Victims pay society back after the fashion of the classic Three Faces of victimization so we should not by default scream for retribution. We need a much deeper sense of justice.
    On that I will agree. The human justice system is for most part designed around...

    • deterring crime by setting an example — this is one of the favorite arguments of the proponents of capital punishment;
    • punishment out of vindictiveness — "getting even" by "hurting" the offender for no other purpose than to hurt him/her; and
    • protecting society against the perpetrator.

    Of the above, only the last bullet point actually has value. The first one has already long proven itself defunct, because it has never stopped anyone from committing a crime, not even when said crime is punishable by death.

    This is why the proponents of capital punishment are in reality seeking solace in the second bullet point, i.e. they simply want to retaliate. And as such, they themselves become the perpetrators of a crime just as grave as the one the convict is put to death for, if not graver, because after all, they are putting an already unarmed and detained — and thus harmless and defenseless — person to death. That's premeditated murder in my book.

    While there most certainly are circumstances where society needs to be protected against a harmful individual for the duration of said individual's natural life, putting them to death is never an honorable solution. Furthermore, all too often, someone was put to death over a crime first and then later on found not guilty because of new evidence which had come to the surface since the execution.

    I personally believe that any kind of sanction should always have an educational aspect. And here comes the subject of "political correctness" again, because so-called "correctional facilities" are not correctional at all. In fact, many criminals pick up all sorts of skills and tricks in prison which make them into better criminals once they get out.

    Lastly, many crimes could also already long have been avoided simply by changing the construct of society. For instance, in a society where everyone has access to everything in abundance, there won't be any incentive toward theft or fraud. That doesn't mean that criminal minds would cease to exist, but it would still make a huge difference from the vantage of the potential victims of such criminal minds.

    Of course, given the world we live in, the above is all academic. Too much needs being changed, and there aren't enough people both willing and capable of doing it.


    P.S.: Depending on how this thread evolves, it might end up fitting in better with Society & Civilization than with Spirituality & Psyche.
    = DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR =

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    Senior Member NotAPretender's Avatar
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    Hi Aragorn,

    That's a long discussion...whether or not psychopaths can be born. Honestly, in a practical world, I don't think so. Many are born with the physiology of the psychopath but they are nurtured to become Champion Knights of Society. On the other hand...I dunno...long discussion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aragorn View Post
    P.S.: Depending on how this thread evolves, it might end up fitting in better with Society & Civilization than with Spirituality & Psyche.
    Hi guys, thanks for jumping in, I’m not used to it I was kind of expecting to open up a space in which to develop something of a monologue, which takes a little time. This thread is where it needs to be, so if it evolves towards Society & Civilization, then it will have strayed off topic. The subject is not psychopathy or any other pathology, but the wholeness of togetherness.

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    I hope this continues, I was a bit confused by it all at first. Probably still are, though my all time pet subject will be art and psyche and such, so I came back and had a read.
    Landscape painting is an abstraction from reality, even when realistic. You could say a step removed. So is a photograph. A painting made from a photograph is two steps removed from reality.
    But all the while there is the experience of being in the landscape. If you put a box shaped building on a hill or ridge, in sunlight, and start painting the landscape, as time goes by, all the shadows would have switched sides and the landscape contorts somewhat. It is here where the painter builds a representation of the time and place and mood of the space. Basically de-constructing the landscape and rebuilding it somewhat as a response to it that appears to be a still image.
    Photo editing software allows now for a little of this ability to purvey more than what is visible in a single snap, but still not in all of the ways.

    ...anyway I will let you continue without going into all that.

    Though there is one other response I had regards togetherness and it is to do with recognising how adults are the children of the past and therefore we were all once the motivation for ancestors. We are the future they worked toward and perhaps sacrificed much for.
    Last edited by Nothing; 2nd November 2017 at 22:12.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NotAPretender View Post
    Hi Aragorn,

    That's a long discussion...whether or not psychopaths can be born. Honestly, in a practical world, I don't think so. Many are born with the physiology of the psychopath but they are nurtured to become Champion Knights of Society. On the other hand...I dunno...long discussion.
    A minimum of 3% of the total population are psychopathic at the genetic level. Sociopathy sits at around 25% and much of that is learned from the similarly afflicted. Until we recognize the intra-species predators among us, especially in gooberments, it will remain a decaying shitshow for populations who refuse to see the obvious. It is like an immune system that cannot identify a pathogen, with the same results.

    It is not a long discussion unless one chooses to ignore the pathogen. Then the discussion is not only long but, a long circle jerk of babble.
    Last edited by modwiz; 2nd November 2017 at 23:19.
    "To learn who rules over you simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize" -- Voltaire

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nothing View Post
    Though there is one other response I had regards togetherness and it is to do with recognising how adults are the children of the past and therefore we were all once the motivation for ancestors. We are the future they worked toward and perhaps sacrificed much for.
    If that is to be taken for true, then I'm sure they'd all be rolling in their graves by now. And it won't be from laughing...
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    To give a better focus on the topic of this thread, it is the soul-brain/body interface, which is where so much of our trouble stems from. It has been shown that racism is very much lower in people who have actually had contact with foreigners. The soul has become so unfamiliar to so many humans that a kind of racism has developed that can only be cured by contact. The content of the opening post boils down to saying that the ‘modern soul’ IS the brain, which amounts to totally ignoring this foreign presence, at the risk of having it become an unconscious threat.

    Loss of belief in God led to the rejection of religion, with the attendant loss of belief in the soul, as the interface with God. But if you take God out of the equation as being a pitiable human representation of the creative force, which is almost abstract in its transcendence, ‘God’ may be ‘dead’, but you haven’t killed the immortal soul, which will come and ‘bite you in the ass’. It is the reality that just will not go away.

    For this connection to become effective, I have a tool I call topsy-turvy thinking. See this post. The idea is as follows: imagine an alien race that turned the Moon into a spaceship by emptying its contents onto the surface. Now imagine what an entity with that background and mindset would think and do if ever they incarnated on Earth. You would find things being done for a very different reason than you thought from a purely human perspective. Now apply topsy-turvy thinking to the soul. A number of things begin to make sense. However, to the extent that we are also souls, this needs to work both ways: what might be termed topsy-turvy double-think. The soul also needs to understand some unlikely effects resulting from its own causes.

    To learn about souls as they are when no humans are around, the writings of Michael Newton on the spirit world between lifetimes are a good place to start. See this post. The validity or truth of this material has not been established; I am approaching it from the standpoint of pragmatism: what useful insights does it afford us? It has one obvious drawback: all the material is taken from individual cases of anonymous clients who come to him for hypnotic regression. No Earth big picture can emerge from these, and no real picture of the oversoul emerges either, just a few glimpses. If soul growth IS the big picture, then maybe there is no Earth big picture per se. There are plenty of puzzle pieces to play around with, but no ultimate picture is required.

    It seems clear that souls too have a problem interfacing with the human brain. It may be that the brain is not responding well. Well, it is a fact of life that humanity as a member, albeit a superior member of the animal kingdom, is not going to be all that bright. Since an IQ of 100 is an average value, that means billions fall below that level: not their fault, and not necessarily a problem. The main problem lies with the souls, who are sometimes young or otherwise inexperienced with respect to Earth incarnations; others are somewhat lazy, deliberately slow learners – they come here basically for a good time – while still others are too earnest and bite off more than they can chew. All these behaviours are tolerated with endless patientce as part of soul growth, with only the really evil performers getting properly sin-binned. But from a brain perspective, these good, well-meaning but sometimes immature souls – no devils – play havoc with our human affairs.

    No doubt it is a counterintuitive statement to make, that souls are causing the problems, not human brains. Ultimately it makes no difference, because either way WE are responsible. But it may help to realize that as humans, we are doing just fine; it is at soul level that we need to raise our game. Things are getting to such a pitch that there is no more time to go back exploring past lives; we are facing an emergency situation in the here and now, and basically the only souls in a position to act in a timely manner are the ones current incarnating. This is of course not entirely the case; we can say, Houston we have a problem, and get help from Houston, but only to the extent that we are pilots aboard this spaceship, not helpless passengers.

    Another point to note from the opening post is that the visual cortex extrapolates from limited data by filling in with familiar data. This is akin to pareidolia but was doubtless developed to handle historically life-threatening situations with limited processing power. Anything remotely unfamiliar would set fight-or-flight responses into action. Cézanne sketches a wiggle and leave sit to the imagination to see a mountain. The response is the comfort of minimal novelty: a few trees and fields in various colours depending on the crop – they literally go without saying – but certainly no UFO parked at the foot of the mountain.

    Given a brain like this, how would it react to a soul making clumsy contact with it? On an individual level, it might act as if it were possessed, or hearing voices, or schizophrenic, or mind-controlled. On a collective level of shared experiences of this nature, it might well be seen as an alien invasion by some evil race. In one sense, that is precisely what is going on. The reality may be rather different, just as a small child may be afraid of an over-affectionate labrador.

    On the other hand, modern man is developing a gift for rapidly assimilating the unfamiliar. Put him in contact with foreigners, and he will soon be comfortable with them. However, the rate of novelty has been speeding up exponentially, which has been a game changer. In astronomer Fred Hoyle’s SF novel The Black Cloud, a scientist has to deal with information from an alien entity, coming so thick and fast that the only way to survive the information overload is to change the rules to ‘anything new automatically supersedes anything old’ – a kind of ‘first in first out’ rule to replace the previous ‘first in last out’ rule. It works for a time but he does not survive the ordeal.

    In the last hundred years, this has been the experience of humanity as a whole; not just the traditional smallish, low-growth human group, but a rapidly expanding population. I can remember when there were only 2 ½ billion of us, three times fewer than now. Where did all the souls come from? Maybe many older ones are reincarnating ‘24/7’. For them it would be like final year in college, learning much harder stuff than ever before. But also, there may be many new or otherwise inexperienced souls joining the experiment. If that is the case, then they will be causing a lot more damage than if they had started on a learning curve by incarnating with gentle hunter-gatherers.

    What this picture indicates is a huge paradox: at the very moment when humanity is beginning to become aware of its value, it is discovering that it is no more than a tool for souls, a tool moreover that is possibly reaching the end of its useful life when it can be left to the inexpert souls to play around with before being finally discarded. That is how it may seem, although a more appropriate analogy might be a rider and a much-loved horse. They bond for a time, but at the end of the day, the horse is put out to graze, having no place in the owner’s living-room or desire to be there. It reverts to its more natural, more primitive state, which has nonetheless been changed, hopefully for the better, by contact with man.

    Hence the soul-brain interface can be likened, from the soul’s point of view, as a rheostat such as is used to dim a light. But from the brain’s standpoint, it is more like a transformer. A transformer is needed to work at a lower voltage. If you plug a low voltage appliance directly into a higher voltage supply, it will not work, and will probably be damaged beyond repair. When humans get too close to high voltage operation, they experience the Luciferian effect of seeing themselves capable of operating at that level. They can’t, so either they get an upgrade to the non-reincarnating soul, or they get a downgrade, whereby the soul is disconnected, i.e. they die and are reincarnated. Or, to return to the horse and rider analogy, they eventually separate and get to choose between being the horse and being the rider. No big deal if you choose the horse. There is all the time in the world to change your mind.

    The future of humanity is ultimately bleak simply because it is not for real; it is called upon to disappear but nothing important is ever lost; it is a theatrical performance by souls pretending to be much less than what they are. The bleaker it gets, the closer we are to the final curtain. What comes next, we are told, in the spirit world, is a warm round of applause.

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    Senior Member NotAPretender's Avatar
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    Perhaps the Old soul/Young soul supersedes all else, but there are many examples where the soul aware make an informed decision at the point of intersection of the unconscious and consciousness to take the low road (and there is an inevitable collision between the two). It is my belief that is where the battle is being lost!

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    Senior Member Paloma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by araucaria View Post
    Hi guys, thanks for jumping in, I’m not used to it I was kind of expecting to open up a space in which to develop something of a monologue, which takes a little time. This thread is where it needs to be, so if it evolves towards Society & Civilization, then it will have strayed off topic. The subject is not psychopathy or any other pathology, but the wholeness of togetherness.
    Off-topic is a natural outcome of togetherness, in my view.
    If something is to evolve at all, then this means that new concepts are added, concepts which bring with them certain surprise factors.
    The very thing that organic life is made of.
    But you are right, lf course.
    Together we make a difference, and also we can make something different, something that was not there before.
    Back to topic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by modwiz View Post
    A minimum of 3% of the total population are psychopathic at the genetic level. Sociopathy sits at around 25% and much of that is learned from the similarly afflicted. Until we recognize the intra-species predators among us, especially in gooberments, it will remain a decaying shitshow for populations who refuse to see the obvious. It is like an immune system that cannot identify a pathogen, with the same results.

    It is not a long discussion unless one chooses to ignore the pathogen. Then the discussion is not only long but, a long circle jerk of babble.
    Wizzy is back! Hard nosed as always.
    "Holding onto anger is like drinking poison and expecting the object of your anger to die” ~ Anon
    "When you come to a fork in the road, take it." ~Yogi Berra
    "You can observe a lot by just watching." ~Yogi Berra
    “When I die, I want to die like my grandfather who died peacefully in his sleep. Not screaming like all the passengers in his car.” ~Will Rogers
    "If life gives you melons...you might be dyslexic" ~ Aixelsyd Dnarber

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    My view of the “3x more souls here now than 60 years ago” is:

    We collectively are reincarnating oftener, i.e. there is now much fewer “on the waiting list” than, say, 500 years ago.

    Souls from other planets, realms, dimensions, the future & past are reincarnating now to “help out” and/or get their karmic “reward” i.e. everyone wants to see the coming “big show”
    "Holding onto anger is like drinking poison and expecting the object of your anger to die” ~ Anon
    "When you come to a fork in the road, take it." ~Yogi Berra
    "You can observe a lot by just watching." ~Yogi Berra
    “When I die, I want to die like my grandfather who died peacefully in his sleep. Not screaming like all the passengers in his car.” ~Will Rogers
    "If life gives you melons...you might be dyslexic" ~ Aixelsyd Dnarber

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    Senior Member Canada Herbert's Avatar
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    Kudos to Araucaria for presenting, in such a novel fashion, the mess we have all created on this planet.

    Recognizing that “Less is More” and that “People are god”, I am forgoing reiterating the historical origins of the problem and getting directly to the solution.

    I want to offer a practical AND PERMANENT solution to the mess that is simple, has been proven effective and it is something every single person can do with commitment.

    The first step is that we all need to take responsibility for the mess. No passing the buck to the parasites since we let it happen by choosing to close our eyes, forget our free will, and forget who we are. Hence a loss of collective consciousness. We chose to stop shining our light.

    We can restore our collective consciousness one person at a time beginning with ourselves through the use of the GIVEAWAY, explained here:

    https://jandeane81.com/showthread.ph...history/page10

    No one else can do this for you, it takes a desire to be better than you are, to free your body of unwanted subconscious emotional blocks, and to remember the balanced wholly human being you once were and can be again. It is a big step in aligning your personality/ego with your higher self conscience and personal god. It removes the layer upon layer of false belief systems and alerts you to your higher powers for dealing with the mess PERMANENTLY.

    You are not the puny, ineffectual person you have led yourself to believe. So get past the apathy and complaining on forums and put those words into the Giveaway for cleansing through fire.

    Karma is ending with this lifetime. In the past we dealt with emotional blocks between lifetimes. In this life we have the Giveaway to perform the same function while we are still living a physical life. It takes courage to begin and we all have trauma to process in this way.

    What you will find with a few weeks of practice is that your intuitive discernment for truth is greatly enhanced and you will gain confidence in you natural abilities to change the world for the better PERMANENTLY. With these new powers will come balance, benevolence, trust, and confidence.

    I want to share an inspiring and encouraging letter I received form someone who has been using the Giveaway for themselves and also encouraging their students to use it.

    Herbert, everything is possible!

    These days I have an urge to read some books about near death experience (more precisely Robert Bruce's 'Astral Dynamics'). Recently my dreams have changed in a way I am more present there! I really walk there! It's pretty awesome. Before, I was watching the happenings, but now I know I'm doing that. I AM THERE! I interpret it in a way that more of my HS is integrated with the body. Increased energies!

    In terms of the church as opposed to spirituality, one of its main mind programs is making people stay spiritual infants. You know, stay meek and bow your head when bullies hurt you and, one day, the big daddy will punish all of those who harm you! What a marvellous construct for stopping someone's spiritual growth! Not to mention robbing their souls - by not dealing with our negative emotions, our emotional rubbish, we come here over and over again and we don't do the work. No wonder people think this planet is some kind of a penal settlement or that we have no free will. Our job here is our evolution. It cannot come without our awoken awareness. By doing the Giveaway, we take the first step in accepting the responsibility for our state of mind. We work on ourselves. By doing that, we change ourselves, unlock our DNA potentials and become our true selves. My goal is total awareness. As above, so below.

    So I can connect more dots. The more truth the more understanding! The people I know who have been using the Giveaway have a great flow of energies!

    I work with children who are spiritually awakened and many of them have been doing and are doing the Giveaway and have had great success! They have changed for the better, plus they know many important true things. I tell them everything!

    You see, Herbert, people need to vibrate on those frequencies in order to understand the things we know about. This frequency range is not small, so we are here with many of them who are below, but also with those who are above us. When we've done all the necessary things, we shall make that final quantum leap and cross the frequency border and cease to exist for that vast frequency range we vibrate in now. That's what happened to those who reintegrated. At least, that's my interpretation. This place is of Earth, so we use our bodies there, hence we don't leave the bodies here. We just change our frequency! Hey, it's a great topic for a book!

    People need change! They want change! And rather sooner than later! I read Carl Boudreau’s updates on FB.

    Yes, layers upon layers, upon layers, of blocking emotional debris in our bodies. This is the well-know construct of the spiral! Well, when you dig up dirt, you strike gold!


    Our imagination/feelings are the key to finding solutions. It is the division of self into pieces that detracts from the reality that when you are wholly functioning you become the Universe. All things are connected in you.

    “For now we see through a glass darkly, but …”

    Shortened life spans of under 100 years are coming to an end. Future lives will be much longer and disease free. The Giveaway is a process formerly reserved for between life cleansing. This time it is being used during our lifetime for those who wish to complete their life purpose.
    Last edited by Herbert; 8th November 2017 at 16:02.
    Learning and practicing intuitive discernment replaces rigidly held belief systems with flexibility and confidence to express your freedom of choice.

    It is each person's responsibility to clear their body of emotional blocks (using the Giveaway, etc.) so that the process of higher self integration into your physical body can begin. Beliefs are fleeting during this period of change. It is wise to hold them lightly. Mind, Body and Spirit are becoming ONE

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