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Thread: Chaos and the Anti-Thread

  1. #1186
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    Quote Originally posted by NotAPretender View Post
    "I am less familiar with the US border situation, but I bet when the exact same border agencies where acting exactly the same under the Obama administration, nobody was taking notice. Now that the Antichrist (or, Orange Hitler) is in the White House, every single US government employee that actually enforces the laws on the books is suddenly kin to the devil"

    Plenty of people noticed...Check the facts, nature, and most of all the spirit in which Obama acted. I trust, Chris, that you would recognize the moral chasm between the behavior of the Black AntiChrist and the Orange AntiChrist. Are empty-headed feminists really as morally depraved as a President that rapes and abuses them? Please, we need to reset...
    I'm not aware of El Donaldo having raped anyone. He didn't have to. He's a frigging celebrity Billionaire with his name on Skyscrapers and his own private Jet. Women were lining up to get a piece of him. Crude, but true. I can't believe I'm defending him, but again, facts, not ideology please. Also, what he said about kitty grabbing may be crude, but it also happens to be true. Rich celebrities can really do that and it doesn't count as abuse, unless they run for president. It may be unfair, but that is just how the world works.

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    Hate speech has become code for "Speech I don't like" or increasingly "facts". I hope you are aware of the massive campaign to defund, deplatform and generally silence the entire alt-right community from Alex Jones and David Icke to Jordan Peterson and Dave Rubin. I may not always agree with them, but this is corporate tyranny in cahoots with government, media and academia. Also, academics that don't toe the hard-left line are being fired and deplatformed at an alarming rate and they were a tiny minority to begin with.
    Last edited by Chris, 26th June 2019 at 09:56.

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  5. #1188
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    Guys, you're all beating around the bush again. Yes, the far-right is despicable, but the traditional left and center parties have unwittingly played into the success of the far-right. It was not a conspiracy, and they didn't do it because they were supposedly left-wing either. They did it because they are opportunistic career politicians with ego-driven agendas of their own, and their party color doesn't matter one iota more than the color of their eyes.

    It's not a matter of left versus right, it's a matter of "mismanagement by an elite" versus "reactionary idiots". The elite can be (self-professed) communists like in China, but they can just as easily be corporate-fascists like in the US. And the reactionary idiots will happily align themselves with either the far-right or the far-left depending on who it is that they are reactionary against, because the reactionary idiots are idiots, and they are opportunists too. Everyone is looking out for Number One ─ and I'm not talking of Commander William Thomas Riker of the USS Enterprise NCC-1707-D.

    The solution to the problem does not lie within a choice between left and right, but in a choice between libertarianism and authoritarianism. Virtually all modern regimes in the western world are predominantly authoritarian, and the same is true for most Asian countries. And as such, you create and promote a system of government with a ruling class and a class of serfs/slaves. There's nothing left or right about that. The "left" and "right" monikers are a smokescreen, a distraction, a non sequitur.

    And as for Donald Trump ─ I really wish it didn't always have to come down to a US-centric debate, but this has to be said ─ he is every bit as much an authoritarian and a "deep state" proponent as the alleged "deep state" that he pretends to be combating. The only thing that was really different in Trump's election versus the elections of his predecessors is that Trump comes from outside of the political establishment. But that's it. There's no more to it. He's not a hero, he will never be a hero, and he's not fighting for anything other than his narcissistic ego and his own ultra-right ideals of white supremacy, American exceptionalism and American imperialism. The US empire must continue to dominate the world, and that's his game.

    His methods may differ in comparison to the likes of Obama, but his goal is the exact same one as that of Obama, Bush Jr., Clinton, Bush Sr., Reagan, Carter, and so on. It's about a New World Order. No, no baby-eating satanic pedophiles and child traffickers. A New World Order, where America ─ believed to have been especially blessed by an Abrahamic deity ─ rules the entire planet by way of its transnational corporations.

    That is the game ─ it has always been the game ─ and everything else is just a distraction. As a nation at the international scale, the USA is an aggressor and a tyrant, trying to impose its will upon other nations, and if it cannot do that through treaties, it'll do it through violence, under the ludicrous flags of "bringing democracy to the world". And as a crypto-fascist nation, the elected US emperor ─ because that's what a US president really is, given that they have the legal power to suspend the constitution ─ is merely a lackey to the corporate world. Doesn't matter if the emperor (or empress) is a Dimmocrite™ or a Repuglican™, because those two parties are only the two wings of one and the same party, controlled by privately owned corporations, in turn led by oligarchs.

    But I digress, because I have allowed myself to get drawn into the by now already nauseating topic of US politics again. What happens in the USA does affect the rest of the world ─ and for most part, in a negative way ─ but the USA does not lie at the center of the universe. And pointing the finger at either the left or the right isn't going to solve anything, because everything is connected. It's not a matter of racists and fascists versus democrats and socialists, and it's also not even a matter of authoritarian versus libertarian.

    The human civilization on this planet is a system. Everything is interconnected. People's (declining) intelligence, people's educational level, people's access to unbiased information, people's circumstances of living, both in terms of their individual well-being and in terms of their means for survival ─ read: their financial status. It is all connected, and it all plays a role in how people want to be governed, and by whom.

    It's a worldwide problem. Not an American problem ─ even though most Americans think that America equals "the world" ─ and not a left/right problem. It's a problem of predators and prey, and the prey is getting dumber by the day, and allowing itself to get dumber by the day, and to be reeled in on a silk string by the big bad spider in the middle of the web.

    Until mankind becomes self-aware enough and responsible enough, this situation is not going to change. Stop pointing fingers at one another while running in circles ─ how long have we been talking about El Donaldo the Banana Republican™ now? We all get the picture now, okay? There are people who like him, and there are people who don't. But he's on the throne now, and there's nothing you can do about it anyway, because the system protects him and will see him through his mandate. End of story. Move along, nothing to see here.

    The whole operating system of humanity needs to be torn down, re-evaluated on the drawing board, re-engineered, rebuilt, alpha-tested, beta-tested, release-candidate-tested, officially released and then patched in order to fix the remaining bugs. There is no other way.
    = DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR =

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  7. #1189
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    Personally I don't care about the Orange Duck, I agree that he is entirely a distraction. That is my exact issue, him and Chocolate Jesus aren't that different in actual policies they implemented, but people treat them as if they were and they counted, when clearly everything important is controlled from the background.

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    Quote Originally posted by Chris View Post
    Hate speech has become code for "Speech I don't like" or increasingly "facts". I hope you are aware of the massive campaign to defund, deplatform and generally silence the entire alt-right community from Alex Jones and David Icke to Jordan Peterson and Dave Rubin. I may not always agree with them, but this is corporate tyranny in cahoots with government, media and academia. Also, academics that don't toe the hard-left line are being fired and deplatformed at an alarming rate and they were a tiny minority to begin with.
    Honestly Chris, the people you cited are non-stop propagandists...now that is a disease....propaganda, that is...Jordan Peterson is a higher grade propagandists but hardly deserving of any special stature regarding knowledge and most especially social attitude. His anger taints his spirit...that is patently obvious.
    “El revolucionario: te meteré la bota en el culo"

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    Quote Originally posted by NotAPretender View Post
    His anger taints his spirit...that is patently obvious.
    Maybe you two have more in common than you even realize.

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    Lol come on in, what is your name, oh lovely name jesus, related to the sun ?, yes oh, while you be here, what you going to do about the transmutation of vile n evil, no probs at all, how ?, allow the obvious to be seen and felt, ooookay why cannot we see n feel this now, old programming you say mmm how does new programming happen then ?, Death and letting go plus new downloading, explain please, Death causing home visit ( heaven etc ) and return, letting go through surprise, shock, moving on, new story/data/templates n especially macro narrative ( google, twitter, movies-youtube, news cnn fox etc ). New downloading is actually the full micro, going within, connecting with oneself n higher self n the divine n God etc ( loving feeling obvious ), also if able, being a downloader of new templates.

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    Quote Originally posted by NotAPretender View Post
    Honestly Chris, the people you cited are non-stop propagandists...now that is a disease....propaganda, that is...Jordan Peterson is a higher grade propagandists but hardly deserving of any special stature regarding knowledge and most especially social attitude. His anger taints his spirit...that is patently obvious.
    I agree that Alex Jones is a propagandist of sorts, he is of course a lapdog of the current US government. I would not consider the others that. I think Dave Rubin is quite measured and moderate. David Icke is batshit crazy and out there, but that's why people love him. As for Jordan Peterson, he's a miserable SOB, but he does make some good points from time to time. The point isn't whether you agree with them or not, but whether they should be silenced and deplatformed because their opinions do not match the current mainstream. If you agree that they should be silenced, you are not a supporter of freedom.

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    Quote Originally posted by Chris View Post
    I agree that Alex Jones is a propagandist of sorts, he is of course a lapdog of the current US government. I would not consider the others that. I think Dave Rubin is quite measured and moderate. David Icke is batshit crazy and out there, but that's why people love him. As for Jordan Peterson, he's a miserable SOB, but he does make some good points from time to time. The point isn't whether you agree with them or not, but whether they should be silenced and deplatformed because their opinions do not match the current mainstream. If you agree that they should be silenced, you are not a supporter of freedom.
    We need more people like Abby Martin. Now there's a real investigative journalist.
    = DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR =

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    I go by personal experience and the attitudes I see first hand. I've shared them here many times.

    I need no brainwashing to see the racism in America. It's painfully obvious. And it's directly tied into the right.

    I see things here directly. I don't need to be 'told'.

    There's a reason Congressional representatives are being denied access to the facilities where the immigrant children are being held.

    It's because the facilities have a lot to hide.

    Caring about all people has nothing to do with being brainwashed.



    People don't rape because they need to, Chris. Men who have wife and children and access to sex still rape.

    Rape is about control and debasement. Not having a romp in the sheets.

    I feel for all the girls who have to hear that crap.

    We really need to know the difference.

    If folks demonize Bill Clinton, and then use that very man as an excuse to ignore the sins of Trump then they have no integrity.


    I was also raised by conservatives. The kind who are a dying (dead maybe) breed.


    Corporate tyranny has been promoted and supported by conservatives in this country big-league.

    Has it been the same way in Europe?

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    The solution to the problem does not lie within a choice between left and right, but in a choice between libertarianism and authoritarianism. Virtually all modern regimes in the western world are predominantly authoritarian, and the same is true for most Asian countries. And as such, you create and promote a system of government with a ruling class and a class of serfs/slaves. There's nothing left or right about that. The "left" and "right" monikers are a smokescreen, a distraction, a non sequitur.
    Yep. And yet I'm still being called brainwashed. Where's my sash?



    His methods may differ in comparison to the likes of Obama, but his goal is the exact same one as that of Obama, Bush Jr., Clinton, Bush Sr., Reagan, Carter, and so on. It's about a New World Order. No, no baby-eating satanic pedophiles and child traffickers. A New World Order, where America ─ believed to have been especially blessed by an Abrahamic deity ─ rules the entire planet by way of its transnational corporations.
    Yep, again. I've been talking about this to people who may as well be walls.


    The human civilization on this planet is a system. Everything is interconnected. People's (declining) intelligence, people's educational level, people's access to unbiased information, people's circumstances of living, both in terms of their individual well-being and in terms of their means for survival ─ read: their financial status. It is all connected, and it all plays a role in how people want to be governed, and by whom.

    Yeppers.



    Donald isn't the distraction. The divisive stuff is:

    Qanon.

    The 'coup'

    The demon baby eaters.

    et al.

    I thanked you, Aianawa, although I'm not exactly sure what you said...

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    In America there has been a big debate about gay marriage.

    There was a big controversy about a bakery that refused to make a cake for a gay couple.

    They are a private business and therefore have the right to turn away customers they don't want to serve. I'm not sure how they get around the discrimination thing, but they do.

    The same principle applies to Revelry, Reddit, You Tube, etc.

    They are private businesses with that right.

    If folks champion the rights of the bakery, they must also champion the rights of the other businesses.

    If folks want those businesses to be regulated as public platforms, then they should ask their representatives and support legislation to do so.


    Oh, but that requires government which folks have now been programmed to hate and mistrust.

    And so the corporations have us all by the short hairs, and they are becoming larger and more powerful than governments.

    In America, they are hardly even held accountable under law and there is a lot of private arbitration.


    Imagine now, a world where all disputes go before an Administrative Law Judge and folks have been forced to sign NDAs in their jobs.

    Now they see fellow citizens being poisoned, injured, endangered, and they can't even legally speak out.

    Nice trap, eh?

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    Hi DT,
    Thanks for taking the time to respond. Keep in mind, I am taking the Devil’s advocate role here, because I think people need to be shaked up from their programmed stupor. I no longer follow the above mentioned people, but my past, heavily alt-right and conpiracy theorist self is quite familiar with their arguments. I find that one needs to look beyond one’s own comfort zone and confront truths one may not be comfortable with.

    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    I go by personal experience and the attitudes I see first hand. I've shared them here many times.

    I need no brainwashing to see the racism in America. It's painfully obvious. And it's directly tied into the right.

    I see things here directly. I don't need to be 'told'.
    That is certainly true. The USA is a heavily racist country, I certainly can’t argue with that. Still, sometimes charges of racism are thrown at people for totally unrelated matters, just to shut them up. That is in fact a favourite tactic of the left and it almost always works, at least in the West. Not in Eastern Europe though, because we just don’t give a shit. We are devoid of the white guilt and colonial legacy that terrifies Westerners so much. We have suffered just as much, if not more, than any other group in the 20th century, yet we don’t go on whining about it and claiming victim status. BTW, if you live in Western Europe for a while, like I have, it quickly becomes apparent that discrimination and prejudice against Eastern Europeans is a thing. If you look at Murdoch-owned newspapers, such as the Daily Mail for instance, propaganda against us is constant and can reach levels of hysteria not seen for decades. There are verbal and physical attacks as well, particularly in the UK and especially since the Brexit vote. This is just to illustrate that attacks on and discrimination against certain groups isn’t always predicated on skin colour. Just ask the blonde, blue-eyed Slavs, how well they were treated under Hitler.
    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    „There's a reason Congressional representatives are being denied access to the facilities where the immigrant children are being held.

    It's because the facilities have a lot to hide.

    Caring about all people has nothing to do with being brainwashed.
    The very same story has played out here in Hungary, at the Souther Border, with ample comparisons to concentration camps and Nazi Germany. I’d better use an illustration rather than try to explain why this is highly biased reporting and a twisting of the facts:

    https://www.creators.com/read/chip-bok/06/19/256495
    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    People don't rape because they need to, Chris. Men who have wife and children and access to sex still rape.

    Rape is about control and debasement. Not having a romp in the sheets.

    I feel for all the girls who have to hear that crap.

    We really need to know the difference.

    If folks demonize Bill Clinton, and then use that very man as an excuse to ignore the sins of Trump then they have no integrity.
    I agree in general terms, but we were talking about a specific case here and the person in question has not been charged, tried and convicted for rape, at least not yet. He is entitled to the presumption of innocence until that changes, just like everybody else. Now, if we were talking about a convicted rapist, it would be a different matter altogether.

    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    I was also raised by conservatives. The kind who are a dying (dead maybe) breed.

    Corporate tyranny has been promoted and supported by conservatives in this country big-league.

    Has it been the same way in Europe?
    Talking about Hungary, it has been mostly the other way round here.
    The previous „socialist” (in truth, neo-liberal) government has dismantled the welfare state and sold out the country to global corporate interests, quite literally selling every single state asset for a fraction of their value to globalist corporations. They then destroyed the entire Hungarian economy and production base, then flooded the country with cheap imports. In that sense they’re truly globalists. The current national conservative government, for all their faults, has been trying to undo some of the damage caused by the socialists, mostly with success. They cracked down on foreign banks for predatory lending (pushing Swiss-Franc denominated loans on the population, where after a few years the interest payments often doubled and quadrupled). They banned GMOs and renationalised some key national assets, such as the only Hungarian Oil Company.
    In other areas they cooperate with the EU and big corporations, but I’d say, by-and-large, people are happy with the way they run the country.

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    I've seen Americans (stupid s*&t ones, imo) acting all guilty about being white. And not just with black Americans. American Indians too. It's ridiculous.

    If you feel bad about the past, then do something about it. Don't debase yourself. Don't try to be what you are not.

    And for God's sake, don't adopt a blaccent! (black accent) Please!


    I have avoided talking about racism, but now it's become almost a PC thing.

    I ain't going for the conservative PC crap either. When racism needs to be talked about, I'm gonna talk about it.

    The first folks who told me, "You can't say that, it's not PC," were conservatives. Conservatives, not liberals.

    They love to fuel fires, and PC is the perfect kindling. They've got a grand bonfire going now.

    Now they're actively looking for the folks to throw in their fire. And they have a leader giving them the green light.


    I know about the Slav thing. We had 'pollock' jokes growing up. And they are also 'coming to take our jobs'.

    My Dad's wife's family is from Slovakia. I can hear stories first hand if I want.


    In America they're called neocons. Ironic. Our centrists (who are called liberal) and your conservatives probably are on the same page.

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    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    I've seen Americans (stupid s*&t ones, imo) acting all guilty about being white. And not just with black Americans. American Indians too. It's ridiculous.

    If you feel bad about the past, then do something about it. Don't debase yourself. Don't try to be what you are not.

    And for God's sake, don't adopt a blaccent! (black accent) Please!


    I have avoided talking about racism, but now it's become almost a PC thing.

    I ain't going for the conservative PC crap either. When racism needs to be talked about, I'm gonna talk about it.

    The first folks who told me, "You can't say that, it's not PC," were conservatives. Conservatives, not liberals.

    They love to fuel fires, and PC is the perfect kindling. They've got a grand bonfire going now.

    Now they're actively looking for the folks to throw in their fire. And they have a leader giving them the green light.


    I know about the Slav thing. We had 'pollock' jokes growing up. And they are also 'coming to take our jobs'.

    My Dad's wife's family is from Slovakia. I can hear stories first hand if I want.


    In America they're called neocons. Ironic. Our centrists (who are called liberal) and your conservatives probably are on the same page.
    Well, no it's complicated. That is why it is problematic to compare political labels in different countries with the same labels.

    Viktor Orban is like the love child of Donald Trump and Bernie Sanders. He has taken the populist policies of both and actually implemented them, so he's immensely popular.

    In Hungary, we have free college, healthcare, 3-year maternity leave for women, after each child, massive subsidies for families to buy their own homes (Up to 35.000 USD), buy a seven-seater family car (Up to 9.000 USD), tax exemption for life for women who have at least 4 children, that sort of thing.

    On the other hand, Orban has actually built a wall on the Southern Border and it works as intended. Both corporate and personal taxes are some of the lowest in Europe and they used to be the highest. The economy is booming though and there is a major labour shortage.

    He uses that popularity to consolidate his power and dismantle democratic checks and balances, making him pretty much unremovable. The closest equivalent to the way he operates that I am aware of, was Lee Kuan Yew of Singapore. Both are/were ruthless autocrats who genuinely believe that their policies are good for their respective countries. Trouble is, they both have been proven right on that account and it takes the wind out of the sails of true democrats (in the general sense of wanting to maintain a democratic political system with checks and balances). Another one perhaps is Netanyahu, a close personal friend of his, which is why accusations of anti-semitism hurled at Orbán are so ridiculous.

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