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Thread: Chaos and the Anti-Thread

  1. #811
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    This is from Max Boot. He was born in Russia and came to America and became a citizen. He was a lifelong, devout Republican. He was surprised at what Trump has uncovered, but I wasn't. I've seen it all along. People can stay in denial for a very long time.

    “I’m ashamed to admit that it took the emergence of Donald Trump. I was in my conservative bunker, and I thought this was a gross libel against the Republican Party to claim that we were catering to racism, or that it was a libel on America to claim that America was a pervasively racist society. And then Trump came along and I realized, “Wait a second. There is a much larger constituency for racism and xenophobia than I had realized.” And it made me think, “Oh, my goodness. This is why a lot of people were voting Republican.” It wasn’t because they loved supply-side economics. It wasn’t because they supported NATO. It was because they were looking for a candidate who would champion the interests of white people. And Donald Trump did that more unabashedly and more unapologetically than previous Republican candidates had done. That was a wake-up call.”
    It's also why Republicans have flip-flopped on so many of their 'positions' with Trump. Because they were really just cover.

    My brother, at least, didn't deny the racism. He's always known.

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  3. #812
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    People have been earning nicknames after harassing/calling cops on black people doing ordinary things, including children.

    Apartment entrances: Checkpoint Chuck

    Fast food restaurants: Drive-thru Sue

    Gas stations: Full Tank Hank

    Sporting venues: Golf Cart Gail

    Children's lemonade stands: Permit Patty

    Sidewalks: Blockade Becca

    Public parks: BBQ Betty

    Movie theaters: Ticket Stub Bub

    Retail establishments: Cornerstone Caroline
    This, of course, is a kind of public shaming. It reflects the stuff that happens that a lot of people didn't used to believe. The term "driving while black" has been around for many years now. It refers to being pulled over for no violation, just for looking 'suspicious' due to being black.

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  5. #813
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    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    Boyan Slat's program is under way. He well may make a big difference in ridding the ocean of plastics.
    I will look that up.

    Skipping ahead to you next posts, I am thinking about the Khashoggi murder and how Trump stated that Saudis are so important we will overlook their tendency to dismember men while alive when encountering disagreement. Trump does not want to mess up arms sales that are necessary for our economy. So we have become a third world nation where weapons are our most valued GNP?

    Does Trumps strange love of the "sheets" (as my brother calls them) and other despots signal the alt right embrace of third world governing policies? Does Trump reveal he is actually the DEEP STATE at work and NOT ITS antithesis?

    My brother works for Gulfstream and his job, (which is repairing jets) stranded him for weeks in Dubai where he experienced the sheets. He told me years ago that these were the most disgustingly entitled and hateful people he could ever have imagined. They actually frightened him because he saw that anyone standing in their way might be easily "disappeared".

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  7. #814
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    I have a brother-in-law who worked for a few years in Saudi Arabia. His movements were carefully controlled by them. He lived on base and yet was afraid and kept a Koran by his front door as a sort of protection. The men were extremely difficult to work with, mostly because they didn't want to do work.

    I worked at the American University in Washington DC for a few years before 911. There were a lot of arab students there from all over the Middle East and North Africa. The young women enjoyed their freedom in the US, but many knew they would not have it when they returned home. It was at times tragic.

    The students who had diplomatic immunity parked their cars all over the place, thumbed their noses at the rules and were generally a-holes.


    Saudi Arabia is the worst of the arab nations, imo. They spread the most vile form of Islam, I probably shouldn't even call it by that name. Wahabism is evil, imo.

    In Tunisia, they were observant without being militant about it. There weren't any 'morality police' running around whipping people.

    It was really in large measure a gossip type of society. Everyone lived behind high walls and yet somehow managed to talk about everybody else's business.

    My understanding is that it's still pretty tourist friendly there. The muslim women don't have to shroud themselves. I've heard that from people who've recently been to Tunisia.


    We have an unfortunately long history of arms sales all over the world.

    Arms sales are easy and constant money and directly related to fomenting wars.

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  9. #815
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    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post

    Saudi Arabia is the worst of the arab nations, imo. They spread the most vile form of Islam, I probably shouldn't even call it by that name. Wahabism is evil, imo.
    When my brother reported his experience in Dubai, he ended it with his wish to see the whole place "nuked". He is not a rabid war monger. He is far from racist. I was a little surprised.

    Think about the Saudi connection to 9/11 and to the massacre in Las Vegas, (and I don't buy the official story of the pilots etc. I do buy that they may have been the patsies just as there was probably a patsie in Las Vegas), now considering the "rise" of Trump I add his love of despots. I have decided that we may want to look somewhere unexpected to find the "deep state". Oil and the kow tow to oil producers and oil distributing energy companies has been a 20th century phenomenon. What else do we need to know?

    Theories of Mandalay Bay/ Saudi connection

    Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bZJXguz-O4
    Last edited by Maggie, 23rd October 2018 at 03:17.

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    Someone filmed Alex Jones yelling at a piece of shit on the road calling it Marco Rubio. Dear Lord...

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    This is the kind of shite that happens when you whip people up into a frenzy with dog-whistles and other such trash:

    Law enforcement officials responded to an incident at the home of liberal billionaire George Soros on Monday evening, an officer with the Bedford, New York, police department told HuffPost.

    A Soros employee opened a package containing an explosive device and called police Monday afternoon, prompting bomb squad technicians to come detonate it, The New York Times reported.

    Soros has been a frequent target of conspiracy theories and fear-mongering by hyper-nationalist conservatives in the U.S. and Europe, who often rely on anti-Semitic tropes when they characterize him as a shadowy figure encouraging mass migration and torpedoing traditional Christian culture. President Donald Trump has personally attacked him as well.

    Soros has become a hate symbol among Right wingers, who attack him verbally with insane fury and hatred. Now it appears that one of the Right wing haters has taken it to the next level.

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    Obama and Clinton were on the mailing list too:
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...=.8af9997bc485

    I don't ever buy the official narrative though. This somehow reminds of the anthrax letters-episode which was of course total bogus and a diversion during the 9/11 era. Then again, many of Trump's fringe followers can be insane so I wouldn't actually be surprised if they wanted to blow up people like these.

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  17. #819
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    It could be someone trying to frame Right wingers, it could be a diversion, or it very well may be an unhinged Right winger, they are out there of course. But, let's not forget it was a disgruntled Bernie Sanders supporter who, were it not for two Capitol Police on hand to guard the Speaker of the House, would have slaughtered nearly every Republican in Congress during a baseball practice with an AK 47 just a few months ago.

    This is why both sides need to cool it with the hot button political rhetoric, there is real trouble coming in this country if this keeps spiraling out of control. Both sides are doing it, both sides have already become violent, and both sides need to knock it the fuck off.
    The unexamined life is not worth living.

    Socrates

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    Both sides? Really? That's like saying that the decades-long history of the KKK is parallel to the newly manifested antifa which has no level of organization that can even approach the KKK and its history of violence.

    One side's leader, our President, has been openly promoting violence since his campaign.

    There ain't no left parallel to the Proud Boys and the bombs being mailed around the country.

    One side has a pound of ammo. The other side has tons.

    It ain't comparable.

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  21. #821
    Senior Member Fred Steeves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Fred Steeves View Post
    This is why both sides need to cool it with the hot button political rhetoric, there is real trouble coming in this country if this keeps spiraling out of control. Both sides are doing it, both sides have already become violent, and both sides need to knock it the fuck off.
    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    Both sides? Really? That's like saying that the decades-long history of the KKK is parallel to the newly manifested antifa which has no level of organization that can even approach the KKK and its history of violence.
    Yes. Both sides. Really. In it's hay day, the Klan had bigger fish to fry than petty party politics.

    What historians call the Second Ku Klux Klan launched in 1915 and reached the apex of its power in the mid-1920s, when it exerted deep cultural and political influence around the country. The Southern Poverty Law Center, a civil rights nonprofit that tracks hate groups, estimates that the Klan had up to 4 million active members in the United States at its apex, about 5 percent of the adult population.

    Klansmen were influential inside both major parties, pushing racism, nativism, Prohibition and especially anti-Catholicism. In the South, Jim Crow-supporting Democrats made a natural fit for the KKK. But in Midwestern industrial towns full of immigrant Catholics and Jews who voted Democratic, the Klan took root largely among Republicans. The Klan was Democratic in Oregon and Republican in Indiana — two of its biggest strongholds. By the end of the decade, the organization, whose membership remained semi-secret, claimed 11 governors, 16 senators and as many as 75 congressmen —roughly split between Republicans and Democrats.
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.8f0b05973ee6

    As an aside, ANTIFA is much more dangerous than the Klan these days.

    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    One side's leader, our President, has been openly promoting violence since his campaign.
    Former Obama Attorney General Eric Holder:

    When they go low, we kick 'em': Obama's AG calls on Democrats to shed civility
    https://www.rt.com/usa/440934-holder...rats-violence/

    Democratic Representative Maxine Waters:

    “If you see anybody from that Cabinet in a restaurant, in a department store, at a gasoline station, you get out and you create a crowd and you push back on them and you tell them they’re not welcome anymore, anywhere,”
    https://www.vox.com/2018/6/25/175014...-sarah-sanders

    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    There ain't no left parallel to the Proud Boys and the bombs being mailed around the country.
    No one knows for sure what's going on there yet. Maybe it is the work of a Far Right Wing nut job, then again maybe not. Jumping to conclusions is what started Iraq War 2, and gets Syria bombed.

    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    One side has a pound of ammo. The other side has tons.

    It ain't comparable.
    Even when you choose to ignore the Bernie Sanders supporting nut job that attempted to murder more that half of the U.S. House of Representatives practicing on a baseball diamond with an AK 47, these and other unbiased realities on the ground do not back up your assertions.
    Suspect in congressional shooting was Bernie Sanders supporter, strongly anti-Trump
    https://www.cnn.com/2017/06/14/homep...ile/index.html
    Last edited by Fred Steeves, 24th October 2018 at 22:08.
    The unexamined life is not worth living.

    Socrates

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  23. #822
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    The rhetoric of Holder or Obama don't hold a candle to the president telling people to send them out in stretchers and he'll pay for the bills. They don't equal in weight or in number. In the history of America, the right wing has produced much more violence. It's pretty obvious. That's been the ID of most of our domestic terrorists.

    And now conservatives are spreading the idea that the bombs being mailed around are being sent by liberals posing as conservatives. That's textbook projection.

    As shameful as that is, what really amazes me is how easily some will eat that up.

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    It pains me to have to say this but Fred is right on this one by my observation. All ya gotta do is go on social media and read. It is systemic, it is toxic, it is scary, and it is nation wide. I see hateful attacks coming from both sides. It is a HUGE problem and it just may end up in the streets, ratcheting up the police state. Those who see it only one way are a large part of the problem and there are waaaaaay too many on both sides.

    When there is wildfire it is put down with more fire. The right is on fire. I expect that kind of vitriol from them because they don't couch it. They're right in your face with it. Not so with the left who present themselves as the loving, compassionate ones. Especially the ones who consider themselves progressives. It is the pot calling the kettle black.

    Here in the Atlanta metro which is red dominant there is a significant number of like minded folks who for the last 30 years collectively refer to themselves as the Phamily. i think it fair to say a high percentage lean left and identify as progressives. I consider myself one of them politically and socially. i see some of them all over social media doin' their thang. It's embarrassing, its wrong, and its political suicide. I tell them, hey, why do U stoop to their level? Do U know U are doing the exact same thing U are accusing them of? U do this out of one side of your mouth while thumping for blue out of the other. In this political arena there are the vociferous ones on both side.s and then there are the quiet ones. Do U realize there are many who watch, who see you calling out the right on hypocrisy, who won't say anything about what they see coming from U that U adamantly deny. How they feel about U behaving and what you are saying? Until they go to vote....

    You know what I get back? This, for one thing....

    HRC STOLE the primary. Also, she was/is a hawk and hard wired to big corp.
    MILLIONS know this and a significant % stayed home with a much smaller % writing in sanders
    and an even smaller % voting for trump.

    That's all true but it don't justify their behavior from where I'm lookin'.

    Denial creates an experience or experiences equal to or greater than the denial so the denial can be cleared.

    In the land of woo where the state energy is in has everything to do with what manifests, it is exactly their denial that got Trump elected! And it may well backfire on them again in the midterms. I see NO shift being made. No move to own what they are doing. All I hear are excuses. Deny, deny, deny!!

    What do U call making fun and a put down rolled into one?

    Political suicide!


    We can saw guys like Colbert get a mulligan cuz its comedy and comedians have been making fun of politicians forever. i don't think its the left's funny bone he's scratching, it's their rage/hate bone. it makes me sick! it was a completely dif shtick when O was in the seat. And then, there was O at the national press club where he went after Trump who is sitting in the audience with all eyes on him. He luvs the spotlight but he's also vindictive i think that's when he said to himself, ok smart guy, we'll see who wins the next one.

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  27. #824
    Super Moderator Wind's Avatar
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    It takes two to tango, that's all I'm going to say.

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  29. #825
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    Indeed, to both of you.

    I was listening to Mark Passio earlier today. He described our government as a cult and people who vote cult supporters. I understand what he says, but there're a few complications with removing oneself from it.

    I live in a system where people are voting and exercising power and will have no problem shoving their cult values down my throat. And so I'd rather use the system than sink into chaos and infighting and possibly war.



    There is one side which has been chanting en masse in front of their Dear Leader.

    There is one side which has spent the last few decades amassing arms.

    There is one side which marched with torches - again with the chanting - using words like 'Blood and Soil' and 'Jews will not replace us'

    There is one side which is flying the Don't Tread on Me flag and chanting Revolutionary quotes.

    There is one side which has been discussing Civil War for years now.

    One side, folks. Not two.


    We know about magic and the occult here.

    This is not a both sides thing.

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