Chaos and the Anti-Thread

[Elen]

What we call demons are beings that do exist, but their nature and origins have nothing to do with Yahweh or Allah. In fact, Islam and Judeo-Christianity have differing explanations as to what demons are and where they come from. Judeo-Christianity describes demons as being fallen angels, while Islam describes them as Jinn — beings that may be either good or bad, or somewhere in between, just like humans, because Jinn have Free Will. And I think that Islam's explanation is probably a lot closer to the mark than the Judeo-Christian one.

Many people who've had face-to-face encounters with demons — and that includes my brother — report that calling upon Jesus causes the demon to retreat. But what they don't seem to realize is that this could just very well be part of the deception, because so long as you are praying unto a deity or unto Jesus, you are sacrificing and sending out exactly the kind of energy that these beings feed upon.

I've had my own encounters with demonic activity in some form or another, and let me assure you that they've got nothing to do with any religion, other than that they could be using man's inclination toward being or becoming religious as, indeed, something they feed upon. And whether they scare you to death or not, prayer isn't going to help you get rid of them. If it is, then you are being led by the nose. Remember what false-flag attacks are?

Like all things in existence, they should be respected for the role they play within Creation, because they have their place in the universe. They are catalysts, so as to bring out the best in people. But that's as far as it goes, and I am not going to pray unto anything to help me get rid of them, because due to the fact that they play a role in Creation and that they too have Free Will, nobody "up there" is going to help you deal with them, whether you pray or not.

I consider demons just another lifeform. A terribly annoying one, but only as annoying as the most evil of humans. And I've had loads of experience with those as well. In fact, I'm almost like a magnet for psychopaths. That may have something to do with the nature of my soul, as I am not like other people and I'm not even from within this universe. So I run into psychopaths everywhere, and they've already been messing with my life for as long as I can remember.

I guess I go about the existence of demons in the bushido way. I'm not afraid of dying, because quite frankly, I have a shitty life, and I know that when my time comes to leave these mortal realms, then I will regain all of my power again. So they know that they can't touch me in "the afterlife", and if they seek me out in this life, then I'm not afraid to battle them to the death. Because if and when push comes to shove, then I am more than willing to go that far. I've got nothing left to lose but the battle itself.

Everyone knows that it's better to steer clear of the wounded animal in the corner.

WTG Aragorn! I can't imagine anyone would seriously want to mess with you...they just have to find out for themselves, hey? You are a brave Soul and deserve respect.

[Aragorn]

WTG Aragorn! I can't imagine anyone would seriously want to mess with you...they just have to find out for themselves, hey? You are a brave Soul and deserve respect.

I love you too, Sister.

[Wind]

But that's as far as it goes, and I am not going to pray unto anything to help me get rid of them, because due to the fact that they play a role in Creation and that they too have Free Will, nobody "up there" is going to help you deal with them, whether you pray or not.

Well, I have to disagree with that brother. I have had experiences both with angelic beings and demons too (quite often unfortunately) and even though it sometimes gets a bit hard to be in the middle when it comes to the battle between light and darkness, it is a choice to pray or not. You don't have to do that, but there is always help. They can't remove the demons, but it's not hopeless either. There is so much light, so much good. As a counterforce, there is the darkness too. Both are powerful forces, but ultimately the power and light of the Supreme Being and followers of it's light have the upper hand. I don't think anyone said that it would be easy to be a human, especially humans like us in times like these. Just my two Scandinavian cents.

[Emil El Zapato]

this is kind of a 'religious' thing which I am a bit wary of, as so many others are, but Christian theologians would argue that the 'evil' only has as much power as that allowed by the creator, and any of it is at the creator's behest. so it is part of the mystery I suppose.

[Wind]

All is within the Creation, but evil seems to be quite separated from the Creator. Or it got as far away from it as possible...

[modwiz]

All is within the Creation, but evil seems to be quite separated from the Creator. Or it got as far away from it as possible...

There is no existential evil, only existential deception that causes humans to do evil to each other. The manifestation of evil comes only from the actions of the human species. Some things that are Natural get confused with what evil is. Clarity is not so hard but, deception must be cleared away and its source comprehended.

[Wind]

There is no existential evil, only existential deception that causes humans to do evil to each other. The manifestation of evil comes only from the actions of the human species. Some things that are Natural get confused with what evil is. Clarity is not so hard but, deception must be cleared away and its source comprehended.

I can't agree with that. Some of the non-human demonic energies and beings sure have felt evil or to be precise, satanic to me. Very dark, I suspect that those beings and energies and thoughtforms are able to influence many people. That doesn't take responsibility away from us humans as we have our "free" will to choose what we do, but there are greater things at play in the background. That's for certain and it's not a matter of belief.

[modwiz]

I can't agree with that. Some of the non-human demonic energies and beings sure have felt evil or to be precise, satanic to me. Very dark, I suspect that those beings and energies and thoughtforms are able to influence many people. That doesn't take responsibility away from us humans as we have our "free" will to choose what we do, but there are greater things at play in the background. That's for certain and it's not a matter of belief.

Envy and jealousy have an evil feel to them, they are hungry and ravenous. I too speak from experience, even dialogue. However, quite content to not pursue a deep subject in a text format. Just adding what I have to share in case it might provide clarity. Shamanic journeying is an experiential path but, deceptions occur in those spaces as well. A coherent creation myth, that can be confirmed as an experience, is the best tool, IMO.

[Aragorn]

There is no existential evil, only existential deception that causes humans to do evil to each other. The manifestation of evil comes only from the actions of the human species. Some things that are Natural get confused with what evil is. Clarity is not so hard but, deception must be cleared away and its source comprehended.

I can't agree with that. Some of the non-human demonic energies and beings sure have felt evil or to be precise, satanic to me. Very dark, I suspect that those beings and energies and thoughtforms are able to influence many people. That doesn't take responsibility away from us humans as we have our "free" will to choose what we do, but there are greater things at play in the background. That's for certain and it's not a matter of belief.

I do not agree with our brother Radagast on this subject either. There most certainly is an existential evil. Allow me to explain myself.

Before Creation — the word "before" to be interpreted in the logical sense, not in the sense of a temporal sequence — there was complete objectivity, or put in terms of physics, a quantum singularity. Within this singularity, all information was utterly meaningless, because there were no reference points. Creation is the process of collapsing the quantum superstate, with the intent of creating subjective experiences, and therefore reference points.

As such, the Prime Creator Consciousness can find significance in each of the individual subjective experiences it has, and at the same time, as an observer, it can also ascertain how these experiences all interact with each other and fit together outside of the singularity. It's analogous to reading a novel and "seeing" things through the eyes of each of the individual characters, while at the same time also building up an understanding of the story as a whole.

Understanding is order. However, you cannot create any kind of order without also setting aside a role for the concept of chaos. There cannot be warmth without that there is cold, there cannot be light without that there is darkness, there cannot be joy without sadness, and there cannot be good without evil. Or more abstractly put, there cannot be any synthesis without forcing thesis and antithesis to meet — the true Hegelian dialectic.

Evil is therefore just as fundamentally a part of Creation as everything else, but it serves a role all of its own. It is there as a catalyst for understanding and working toward what is good. And by definition, that is what makes evil an existential property of Creation.

[Elen]

Understanding is order. However, you cannot create any kind of order without also setting aside a role for the concept of chaos. There cannot be warmth without that there is cold, there cannot be light without that there is darkness, there cannot be joy without sadness, and there cannot be good without evil. Or more abstractly put, there cannot be any synthesis without forcing thesis and antithesis to meet — the true Hegelian dialectic.

Evil is therefore just as fundamentally a part of Creation as everything else, but it serves a role all of its own. It is there as a catalyst for understanding and working toward what is good. And by definition, that is what makes evil an existential property of Creation.

Yeah it is a matter of..."What Angle" you are looking at it from. Above duality there is no game being played out. In order to play our game, we need the contrasts to be able to differentiate, good and evil are part of it as a whole. (Take chess...could we play it if all the pieces were white?)

[Elen]

It's funny, some things I just can't read, it will vibrate with me in such a way that my eyes and heart and mind start going into a state of spiritual sighing and all I can hear in my head is noise, which is happening a bit in some of the last few pages.

Finished the book, it was great.

Thank you for posting the book, I've saved the link to the audio version for later.

[Aragorn]

Understanding is order. However, you cannot create any kind of order without also setting aside a role for the concept of chaos. There cannot be warmth without that there is cold, there cannot be light without that there is darkness, there cannot be joy without sadness, and there cannot be good without evil. Or more abstractly put, there cannot be any synthesis without forcing thesis and antithesis to meet — the true Hegelian dialectic.

Evil is therefore just as fundamentally a part of Creation as everything else, but it serves a role all of its own. It is there as a catalyst for understanding and working toward what is good. And by definition, that is what makes evil an existential property of Creation.

Yeah it is a matter of..."What Angle" you are looking at it from. Above duality there is no game being played out. In order to play our game, we need the contrasts to be able to differentiate, good and evil are part of it as a whole. (Take chess...could we play it if all the pieces were white?)

Sadly enough, there is unfortunately a misunderstanding within the so-called "alternative community" on account of where the duality ends. Many seem to think that it ends at the same boundary as what separates the material cosmos from the spiritual/immaterial realms. This is definitely not the case, exactly because of the fundamental/existential nature of evil.

However, once you start dwelling in the upper echelons of the spiritual realms, evil becomes more of an academic concept, rather than a manifest one. Evil thrives on things which do not exist within the higher spiritual realms — e.g. the struggle for survival or the quest for wealth — and therefore, it cannot survive there.

The concept itself will however continue to exist, as a catalyst in decisions made and in paths chosen. Everything must cast a shadow for it to have depth.

[Elen]

You're welcome.
Oh did you find an audio version for the 4th book? That you tube link is for book 1. I was referring to book 4. :thumbsup:

I have no idea...I presumed it was mostly all of it, considering that it's more than 9 hours long. It will take a long time...he?

[Emil El Zapato]

later in the book.

Amen!

I can't agree with that. Some of the non-human demonic energies and beings sure have felt evil or to be precise, satanic to me. Very dark, I suspect that those beings and energies and thoughtforms are able to influence many people. That doesn't take responsibility away from us humans as we have our "free" will to choose what we do, but there are greater things at play in the background. That's for certain and it's not a matter of belief.

Free will, yes, there is that decision point and that is what makes us what we are...

[Emil El Zapato]

I do not agree with our brother Radagast on this subject either. There most certainly is an existential evil. Allow me to explain myself.

Before Creation — the word "before" to be interpreted in the logical sense, not in the sense of a temporal sequence — there was complete objectivity, or put in terms of physics, a quantum singularity. Within this singularity, all information was utterly meaningless, because there were no reference points. Creation is the process of collapsing the quantum superstate, with the intent of creating subjective experiences, and therefore reference points.

As such, the Prime Creator Consciousness can find significance in each of the individual subjective experiences it has, and at the same time, as an observer, it can also ascertain how these experiences all interact with each other and fit together outside of the singularity. It's analogous to reading a novel and "seeing" things through the eyes of each of the individual characters, while at the same time also building up an understanding of the story as a whole.

Understanding is order. However, you cannot create any kind of order without also setting aside a role for the concept of chaos. There cannot be warmth without that there is cold, there cannot be light without that there is darkness, there cannot be joy without sadness, and there cannot be good without evil. Or more abstractly put, there cannot be any synthesis without forcing thesis and antithesis to meet — the true Hegelian dialectic.

Evil is therefore just as fundamentally a part of Creation as everything else, but it serves a role all of its own. It is there as a catalyst for understanding and working toward what is good. And by definition, that is what makes evil an existential property of Creation.

very good...