Chaos and the Anti-Thread

[Wind]

The 2nd amendment might be a bit more hard for us Europeans to grasp. For some Americans it tends to be a very important thing, the idea of being free and able to defend yourself from danger. Here in Finland there are lots of guns, but most of them actually belong to hunters and then perhaps to collectors and some minor part of it are just gun-enthusiasts. You won't get a handgun for self-defence here and in most places it's now not so easy to get one easily either because you have to have a clear reason why you would want to have one. The police will decide if that reason is good enough for them, if you get a permit then the police will interview you at least once.

If you get a gun, they must be stored in a weapons cabinet. I think most common weapons here are shotguns and rifles. After that would come small calibre rifles, pistols and small calibre pistols. Deaths related to firearms seem to be relatively low and cops almost never have to shoot let alone kill anyone here, tasers are used a lot if needed. There have been only a handful times when there have been big shootings and sadly we did have two school shootings too about 15 years ago or so, before that it was still reasonably easy to get handguns. Before those shootings I was talking with my father about guns and possibly even considering to get one. I didn't consider after that and one reason was that even just the diagnosis for depression might disqualify you. I don't want the stigma of that. I would never even harm a fly, but how could the government be sure of that. At times I feel conflicted when I think about guns and violence.

Interesting video about gun control and the Constitution. Quite informative, something to ponder about.


Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vggYGQyVaCo

[Wind]

This man used force in an appropriate way. He put his life on the line as it was his duty and saved lives.

[Emil El Zapato]

This man used force in an appropriate way. He put his life on the line as it was his duty and saved lives.

Check the look on that dude's face. Every emotion is in it.

[Fred Steeves]

Check the look on that dude's face. Every emotion is in it.

That's the look of a man going to take care of some business.

[Dreamtimer]

I'm learning that Amber Heard is a lip picker. As in, picking dry skin off her lips, sometimes leaving a small spot which might bleed or swell a little. There was a string of clips showing her engaging in this activity.

I had to laugh. I've had this habit in the past. The lips get a little chapped, there's a bit of dry skin, you pick at it, and it can become a kind of vicious circle of peeling and picking. I literally bought a thick lip gloss which stays on for hours. My lips stay supple, they don't peel, I don't pick. I'll even wear it when I have no other makeup on. (it's clear) It lasts through eating, which is a big deal.

I can imagine Amber having a particularly harsh skin pull, her lip getting swollen, and then blaming it on someone hitting her. It's not her fault!!!

I know folks who make shit up because they just don't want to take responsibility for what they do, even when it's a stupid thing like lip-picking.

[Dreamtimer]

A new vision? As a kid I believed in the peaceful bucolic scenes from story books.

[Dreamtimer]

Here's some ShowerCap for Ya, BOB.

Links are plentiful in the original.

Given their commitment to doing absolutely fucking nothing to stop these preventable tragedies, you’d think Republicans would be swimming in free time, (in addition to the blood, of course) but the pious, theatrical gaslighting required to keep a white resentment cult in a state of perpetual sputtering rage is surprisingly labor-intensive.

And Uvalde completely obliterated the myth of the Good Guy With His Holy Gun, as surely as if Jesus came back just to taint-punt Wayne LaPierre into the sun. There’s no cover left, just a pack of hyperventilating nutjobs who would happily send ten million children to early graves rather than surrender a single bullet.

Ignored in all their wild-eyed plans to force children to crawl into classrooms via pet doors, each guarded by an entire platoon, is the helpful example set by the non-batshit, civilized world, where GUN CONTROL FUCKING WORKS.

[Emil El Zapato]

Here's some ShowerCap for Ya, BOB.

Links are plentiful in the original.

My neighbor and his wife are teachers and he told me today, that there is no way he would want teachers to have guns because they are as crazy as anybody. He said they would likely end up shooting students. I told him 'damn straight', I never would have made it out of high school.

[Fred Steeves]

And Uvalde completely obliterated the myth of the Good Guy With His Holy Gun, as surely as if Jesus came back just to taint-punt Wayne LaPierre into the sun. There’s no cover left, just a pack of hyperventilating nutjobs who would happily send ten million children to early graves rather than surrender a single bullet.

I'm seeing this particular rant popping up more and more in the hyper polarized, MSNBC type of political crowd gatherings.

Nice rant, but not so sure it's a good strategy to be lumping cops too chicken shit to break up a school mass shooting, in with the much despised "good guy with a gun" line. Think about what that's implying, having cops around with guns does no good either? That's a lob ball down the middle of the plate for civilian gun owners to knock out of the park by chiming in "well if the cops won't go in to save the kids, then we will".

The ranter is trying to have it both ways with the "good guy with a gun" one liner to seize the moment, and it just doesn't make any sense. Right, let's disarm the cops too...

[Aragorn]

Right, let's disarm the cops too...

Well, it does seem to work in the UK.

The British police do not carry any firearm unless special circumstances demand it, and when they then arrive at the scene, they have to announce it to the suspects with the phrase "Armed police officer!"

Uniformed police officers do carry a stick, by the way. But no guns.

[Wind]

Well, it does seem to work in the UK.

The British police do not carry any firearm unless special circumstances demand it, and when they then arrive at the scene, they have to announce it to the suspects with the phrase "Armed police officer!".

Uniformed police officers do carry a stick, by the way. But no guns.

That sounds a bit similar to Norway. The police do not carry guns with them there, they keep them locked in their cars.

What the U.S. Can Learn From Countries Where Cops Don't Carry Guns

Policing By Consent

While the 19 nations in the world that do not arm officers vary greatly in their approach to policing, they share a common thread. “What we can identify in these countries is that people have a tradition—and an expectation—that officers will police by consent rather than with the threat of force,” says Guðmundur Ævar Oddsson, associate professor of sociology at Iceland’s University of Akureyri who specializes in class inequality and forms of social control such as policing.

Countries with a philosophy of policing by consent, such as the United Kingdom, believe that police should not gain their power by instilling fear in the population but rather, should gain legitimacy and authority by maintaining the respect and approval of the public. This model of policing maintains that uses of force should be restrained and success is measured not in how many arrests officers have made but rather, by the absence of crime itself.

Better Training

In many countries where police are unarmed, governments invest in advanced level of training for law enforcement. In Norway, for example, policing is an elite occupation, where only the most qualified candidates are selected. In 2015, only 14% of candidates who applied to police schools were accepted.

Once admitted, prospective officers receive more extensive training than officers in the United States. Norwegian student officers must complete a three-year bachelor’s degree where they spend one year studying society and ethics, another shadowing officers, and a final year focusing on investigations and completing a thesis (In the United States, officers spend only on average 21 weeks in training which are modelled on military bootcamps).

“I think that the United States must learn that it takes time to educate people,” says Rune Glomseth, a professor at Norweigan police university college. “Police are a very special role in society and you can’t just train them for a few weeks. You need time.” Even once students have graduated, they are required to complete fifty hours of operational training per year. “If our officers were trained as extensively as police in Norway, they would be less reliant on deadly force,” says Hirschfield.

Officers in both Norway and Finland also work in tandem with medical professionals, particularly psychiatric specialists that accompany officers when dealing with people who are exhibiting signs of mental illness. In contrast, funding for psychiatric services in the United States has been cut in recent years, resulting in police officers handling cases of people who are mentally ill often without having the background knowledge to do so. The result is striking: A Washington Post analysis found that 25% of people shot by police officers during a six months period in 2015 were experiencing severe mental health issues.

The greatest skill a police officer can have is “critical reflection,” says Oddsson. “We need people [on the streets] who are cognizant of the fact that being a police officer is like being a social worker.”

[Fred Steeves]

Right, let's disarm the cops too...

Well, it does seem to work in the UK.

That's quite true.

I guess then what I'd like to see, is the polarized establishment left over here put their money where their mouths are. If they're gonna now run around playing cutesy with the term "good guy with a gun", by shoehorning it in to be one in the same with "And Uvalde completely obliterated the myth of the Good Guy With His Holy Gun" to gain gotcha points against their arch rivals the polarized right, then let's see them lobby for police gun control as well to be consistent.

If the notion of having good guys with guns, to be a balance against criminals with guns is such utter horseshit that we're now lumping cops into the mix, then let's see it actually put it out there for public debate over possible codification into law with all the rest, rather than just using it to score cheap political points with.

Words mean things is what I'm a sayin...

[Dreamtimer]

Trae Crowder and his Mark Agee were talking shortly after the Uvalde shooting. Mark addressed the idea of teachers having guns. He talked about his wife, how stressed she is and how she just might use it herself. He talked about how she has to give meds because there's no school nurse. He talked about how utterly stupid and short-sighted the knee-jerk reactions from the right are after this shooting.

And how many mass shootings have there been this year so far?

Hundreds. And it's only June.

When a nation actually has a real debate then solutions can happen. If folks are yelling about 'good guy with a gun' it's because that 'solution' has been offered up time and again. And it's a failure. You can say it, state it, yell it, whatever. It's still a failure.

Words do matter. And preferring failed solutions again and again is both a waste of words and a waste of life.

The good guys with the guns, and armor and all the things were too effing afraid to go in and do anything. It was much easier to handcuff a mom than do their jobs. And it was much easier to lie and lie and lie.

You're right Fred, words matter. And the empty ones need to go into the trash.

[Emil El Zapato]

That sounds a bit similar to Norway. The police do not carry guns with them there, they keep them locked in their cars.

What the U.S. Can Learn From Countries Where Cops Don't Carry Guns

Now that's a great great concept, Wind. What Americans simply do not understand is that social constructs are a feedback loop. Respect me and I will respect you. F*ck with me and I will f*ck you up, even if that only means disrespect and resistance. Never will the authoritarians understand that.

That hits on the Scandinavian zeitgeist that was so difficult for me to articulate for years. It was a difficult concept to integrate in many ways. For example, the idea that there was less crime if there were less laws. That's a mind twister.

That's quite true.

I guess then what I'd like to see, is the polarized establishment left over here put their money where their mouths are. If they're gonna now run around playing cutesy with the term "good guy with a gun", by shoehorning it in to be one in the same with "And Uvalde completely obliterated the myth of the Good Guy With His Holy Gun" to gain gotcha points against their arch rivals the polarized right, then let's see them lobby for police gun control as well to be consistent.

If the notion of having good guys with guns, to be a balance against criminals with guns is such utter horseshit that we're now lumping cops into the mix, then let's see it actually put it out there for public debate over possible codification into law with all the rest, rather than just using it to score cheap political points with.

Words mean things is what I'm a sayin...

I have no doubt that the left would be in favor of limiting all guns, but there is a long road to reaching that level of social reasoning and maturity in the U.S.

[Fred Steeves]

And then we have this:

A funeral worker and attendant who was prepared to charge the gunman who opened fire inside Robb Elementary School last month, killing 19 children and two teachers, said he was told by police to stay back and not engage the shooter.

Cody Briseno told NBC News in an exclusive interview that he saw the gunman crash his truck in front of the school on May 24 before hopping out with a rifle. Briseno backed up after seeing an “evil look” from the shooter, who opened fire at him and a co-worker.

The pair fled back inside Hillcrest Memorial Funeral Home across the street. There, behind a locked door, Briseno called his wife, who brought him a firearm.

Briseno said was prepared to confront the shooter, but by that time, police had gathered outside the school and ordered him not to engage the gunman.

Briseno recalls telling the officers outside: “I’m going to go in and try to stop them.” But he was met with resistance from an officer, who he did not identify to NBC News, that told him to stay back and shut up.

https://thehill.com/news/state-watch...chool-shooter/