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Thread: Active Self Protection

  1. #46
    Senior Member United States Dreamtimer's Avatar
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    Gun owners do like to rag on knives. This is pretty funny and, he was close, but was his aim very good? It seemed so to me.

    I've never fired a gun. (Other than BB, game)

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  3. #47
    Senior Member Wind's Avatar
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    Yes, hickock45 is a real crack shot, he makes it look so easy. I've never fired a real gun either, just BB and video game guns too... They're not the same thing as real guns of course, but still they have the same basic idea. Real guns are just way more loud and have recoil.

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  5. #48
    Senior Member United States Dreamtimer's Avatar
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    The first time I fired a BB gun, my brother's, it kicked back on my shoulder and hurt. I was nine. I was very unhappy and lost a lot of interest in firing guns. He was more interested in shooting turtles than teaching me...

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  7. #49
    Senior Member Aragorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Wind View Post
    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    I've never fired a gun. (Other than BB, game)
    I've never fired a real gun either [...]
    I have. Belgium had compulsory military service up until 1995, and I too have had to put in my time, like most males of my age — even my younger brother has had to serve in the military, somewhere in the late 1980s. I myself was in the army between 1983 and 1984, and I actually turned out the best marksman of the base where I was eventually stationed.

    It was an administrative unit, but I had been designated to become an army ranger when I was summoned for duty, and some time after I was released from active duty again, the administrative base where I had spent most of my service was shut down. I then received a letter that I was administratively reassigned to a marines base — the Belgian marines were not a separate contingent like in the USA, but were instead considered part of the regular army.

    Not only did we have to serve in the military, but after our active duty, we would also still be part of the reserve for a number of years. Administrative reassignment therefore meant that I was to report for duty at the designated base if Belgium were ever to go to war. You have to keep in mind that this was still in the middle of the Cold War, and, you know, there was always a chance that the Russians would invade us and steal our beer. Anyway, I was fully released from all military obligations at the age of 28, and even the marines base has in the meantime been shut down. The Belgian military has been thoroughly reformed since then, and we now no longer have any marines.

    Still, even though I was stationed at an administrative base for most of my military service, we did also have shooting practice. We were shooting the SAFN, a battle rifle in 7.62 x 51 mm NATO, as well as a Sten Gun, which is a World-War-II-era submachine gun designed to fire a whole variety of 9 mm ammunition (albeit not all 9 mm calibers). We only shot the Sten Gun in semi-auto mode, and the sights on the one I was using were incredibly off — it shot way too low and quite a bit to the left. The SAFN on the other hand was pretty accurate, considering that the one I shot had already been in active use since 1949 and that it had been poorly maintained.




    FN-49, also known as SAFN (semi-auto version) or AFN (select-fire version)






    Sten Gun



    I have so far never fired any other weapons, but I did have an FN FAL as my personal weapon during my training. That too is a battle rifle in 7.62 x 51 mm NATO, but it looks quite different from the SAFN. I've heard that it absorbs recoil better as well, but I cannot confirm that, given that I've never fired it — I was in hospital with a torn muscle at the time of the first shooting practice.

    It was either way a very popular military rifle. It was produced in Belgium as the FAL ("Fusil Automatique Légère"), under license in the UK (by Enfield) as the LAR ("Light Automatic Rifle"), and in Canada (by Diemaco, now called Colt Canada) as the SLR ("Self-Loading Rifle"). It was also used in Australia under that name, but I'm not sure whether those were imported rifles or whether they had been manufactured locally.

    The FAL existed in many different variants and was used all over the world. It is still being used by game wardens in South Africa, given that a modern (NATO standard) assault rifle fires the 5.56 x 45 mm round, which has too much penetration and not enough stopping power at close to medium range, and thus it doesn't provide for any adequate defense against a dangerous animal like a lion, a rhino, a hippo or even an elephant.




    FN FAL



    7.62 x 51 mm kicks a bit, and especially on such an old rifle with all-wooden furniture — modern rifles have polymer stocks that absorb more recoil — but we were shooting the rifles while lying prone, and then your whole body absorbs the recoil, provided that you press the butt plate tightly against your shoulder. So you feel it, but it doesn't hurt — it's more of a push or a shove than a kick. The submachine gun on the other hand was fired from the shoulder while standing up, in semi-automatic fashion, but you barely feel any recoil with a 9 x 19 mm.

    One of the key elements in felt recoil is the weight of the weapon. The heavier it is, the less recoil you feel, because the shock has to overcome the inertia of the weapon. Firing a shoulder-fired weapon is also quite different to firing a single-handed weapon like a pistol. Self-loading firearms — i.e. semi-automatic or select-fire — also absorb more recoil than non-repeating firearms due to the diversion of kinetic energy toward operating the self-repeating action.

    But loud it is, yes — or at least, the rifles, because a 9 mm is not all that loud. Part of that loudness is due to the supersonic shock wave — i.e. a sonic boom — riding the bullet, and especially so with the rifles. The muzzle velocity of a 7.62 x 51 mm rifle with a standard-length barrel is about Mach 2, i.e. twice the speed of sound.

    We put cotton in our ears, but it was an indoor shooting stand, so the sound reverberated off the concrete walls. The most annoying thing was when you were taking aim with the rifle at 100 meters and then the guy next to you pulled his trigger. There was a wooden wall between us, so you couldn't see the others, and as such, you also didn't know that they were about to open fire. It startles you every time and then it breaks your concentration.

    Another thing which I found annoying was that on the 100-meter range, you are so far away from the targets that you have to start counting them from the left to know which one you're supposed to be shooting at.
    = DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR =

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  9. #50
    Senior Member Emil El Zapato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Aragorn View Post
    This guy is from Tennessee — well, originally from Kentucky, but he lives in Tennessee now. Maybe Fred knows him, because he often travels in order to meet up with other YouTubers, and especially those who have a firearms-related channel of their own. He's a former teacher and security guard, and he strongly advocates gun safety.

    His channel is sponsored by several arms-related organizations, as well as by a gun shop and an ammunition manufacturer. His son does the camerawork, but on occasion they switch places. He's got a good, albeit dry sense of humor, and he's very knowledgeable about historic firearms, which are his favorite.

    He usually ends his regular review videos with the line "Life is good", and his very short — about 1 minute — FAQ videos with "That's all I've got to say about that."


    that guy is pretty good...carving a pumpkin seems kind of expensive..but hey!!

    Now see something you simply won't believe!


    Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5WjkI5FuP0


    Muhammad Ali jab - 19/100ths of a second
    Last edited by Emil El Zapato, 13th October 2017 at 19:48.

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  11. #51
    Senior Member Emil El Zapato's Avatar
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    my stepbrother was always proud of his 7mm mauser...one of those you posted looks similar. If I remember correctly he used to say it was either German or Russian, I don't really remember.

    NAP

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  13. #52
    Senior Member United States Dreamtimer's Avatar
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    I saw Bob Munden on Stan Lee's show. So cool.

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  15. #53
    Senior Member Emil El Zapato's Avatar
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    yeah, I thought that was where I saw him. I was laughing when he did the two balloon trick because I only heard one shot and figured he had failed. When they did the play back, I was awestruck!

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  17. #54
    Senior Member Wind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Aragorn View Post
    Sten Gun, which is a World-War-II-era submachine gun designed to fire a whole variety of 9 mm ammunition (albeit not all 9 mm calibers). We only shot the Sten Gun in semi-auto mode, and the sights on the one I was using were incredibly off — it shot way too low and quite a bit to the left. The SAFN on the other hand was pretty accurate, considering that the one I shot had already been in active use since 1949 and that it had been poorly maintained.
    Now that's a classic, or at least it's familiar to me from many movies and WWII documentaries.


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  19. #55
    Senior Member Aragorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by NotAPretender View Post
    my stepbrother was always proud of his 7mm mauser...one of those you posted looks similar.
    That would be the SAFN — they do indeed look similar. My dad was carrying a Mauser when he himself was putting in his military service in the 1950s.

    Quote Originally posted by NotAPretender View Post
    If I remember correctly he used to say it was either German or Russian, I don't really remember.
    Mauser is German.





    Quote Originally posted by Wind View Post
    Quote Originally posted by Aragorn View Post
    Sten Gun, which is a World-War-II-era submachine gun designed to fire a whole variety of 9 mm ammunition (albeit not all 9 mm calibers). We only shot the Sten Gun in semi-auto mode, and the sights on the one I was using were incredibly off — it shot way too low and quite a bit to the left. The SAFN on the other hand was pretty accurate, considering that the one I shot had already been in active use since 1949 and that it had been poorly maintained.
    Now that's a classic, or at least it's familiar to me from many movies and WWII documentaries.



    They are very tricky (and dangerous) to shoot, because they fire from an open bolt. Many submachine guns and almost all full-size machine guns do that, to allow for better cooling. It prolongs the lifetime of the barrel of any weapon designed for full-auto fire — an overheated barrel can easily become warped — and it also prevents the ammunition from getting cooked, which would result in catastrophic self-detonation.

    The thing with the Sten Gun however is that there's very little room to put your left hand, and especially when shouldering the weapon for a more precise shot. If you're not careful, then the fingers of your left hand will be right inside the ejection port, and if you were to pull the trigger then, then you'd be cutting off your fingers, because that bolt is like a guillotine.
    = DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR =

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  21. #56
    Senior Member United States Dreamtimer's Avatar
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    I wonder what the statistics are on that? My sister-in-law spoke of having to be careful where she put her thumb or it might get cut off.

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  23. #57
    Senior Member Fred Steeves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Aragorn View Post
    This guy is from Tennessee — well, originally from Kentucky, but he lives in Tennessee now. Maybe Fred knows him,

    That's some darn good shooting, but no I don't know him. That video could have just about been shot in our side yard though.
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    The unexamined life is not worth living.

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    Senior Member Aragorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Fred Steeves View Post

    That's some darn good shooting, but no I don't know him. That video could have just about been shot in our side yard though.


    Yeah, he's got quite a large compound, most of it being woodland. He's got at least two shooting ranges there, and he regularly takes one of those guns out on a "woods walk" in order to hunt down those dangerous 2-liter soda bottles that are constantly invading his property.

    Here's his YouTube channel.
    = DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR =

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  27. #59
    Senior Member United States Dreamtimer's Avatar
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    We have woodland but you can't shoot because there are houses all around. There's not enough distance. But that doesn't stop the occasional hunter from wandering around back there. They know the deer go where the hunters can't. So the hunters go where they shouldn't. Like in this residential area.

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    Senior Member Fred Steeves's Avatar
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    "Security Theater": Great term, and one worthy of serious consideration on what we may think is keeping us safe.
    The unexamined life is not worth living.

    Socrates

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