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Thread: What Motivates Bill Ryan of Project Avalon Community Forum?

  1. #661
    Administrator Aragorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by araucaria View Post
    If you see the elite as incorrigible, then the prison planet model would seem to apply best to the situation – provided one takes the analogy all the way. The deprivation of our freedom by this elite indicates that they are the jailers and the rest of us the inmates. If an inmate has integrity in the sense of knowledge of being in the right place at the right time, then that would mean eventual acceptance of being guilty as charged. On the other hand, if they feel they are angels only here to help, it could possibly be out of embarrassment through feeling they are in the wrong place at the wrong time: they are innocent and the whole thing is a huge mistake. As far as we know, there have only been one or two mistakes, and the reaction was very different, one of acquiescence. Or it could be that at some stage along the way, they have grown into model prisoners almost ready for release (although release may be still some time off). They begin to trust in a miracle, which is not a miracle at all, the day those jailers open the gates to freedom. The miracle becomes automatic, inevitable, once the cosmic penitentiary has achieved the desired effect of change through admission of guilt, namely repentance. The example of Jesus would be that even the guiltless would go meekly through this process rather than attack the guards and make a break for freedom. It makes a lot of sense: better clean the slate than go on the run as an outlaw. So, guilty as charged, but after so long, guilty of what exactly? Satan’s sin is either pride or doing things back to front; or rather both: stubbornly doing things back to front, thinking he knows best. At some stage, this has got to stop and we have to get in step with the universe. The jailers are simply showing how not to do it. Learn the lesson and you can go out and be a proper angel on full power.

    The prison is not the only analogy or even the best. It was useful in Christian times, but not so much nowadays. Michael Newton’s between-life clients tend to see life here as a school. In this analogy, the starting point is not willful error but immature ignorance, but otherwise the process is similar: you learn and eventually graduate. But the pedagogy has improved: instead of telling students how useless they are, teachers emphasize the positives and give encouragement: they are on the same side. And gifted students (formerly model prisoners) help their classmates. The climate is one of cooperation, not isolation.

    Another difference between the two models is that there are a different group of people in charge. The angels only here to help are now in charge as teachers or gifted students and the former powers-that-be are slow learners at the bottom of the class. The jailers who thought they had the keys are actually lagging behind the rest, but they have been brought onside: everyone is aligned in working towards a single goal. Also in this scenario, angels who used to feel they were in the wrong place at the wrong time are no longer thinking in terms of an outdated analogy, possibly as good Christians. From the educational standpoint, they see the world differently, even though so far nothing else has changed. Instead of worshipping Christ, they act out the Christ consciousness. The last will be first and the first will be last, not in terms of power but in terms of influence. The wrong path has led to total incompetence in high places, a total dead-end. As competence takes over, the gates of the cosmic penitentiary swing open and stay open. Some inmates may be too set in their ways to notice at first.
    Umm...
    = DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR =

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    Senior Member Lord Sidious's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Malisa View Post
    Just as you did when you said this:



    This is pointless, you are just going to beat around the bushes for years

    My post did not tell you that, since you don't know anything about me, and my words may or may not be the exact same thing i'm thinking, it's just your perception of me based on your own beliefs. You are just trying to find a way to tell me i'm wrong and that's a total waste of time, because we could spend our lives on this pointless argument

    So as i said, i have better things to do than follow a random path based on vague statements that never reach the point or just are meant to extend the conversation forever in ridiculous ways, because no one is brave enough to say what they really want to say

    No thanks

    When people ask me: "What do you see?", i always tell them "I see a lot of things"

    xi xi
    I'm not going to tell you what I really think of this as I will get banned again..............
    Ní siocháin go saoirse

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    Well Aragorn, if you don’t see how my post is on topic regarding what motivates Bill Ryan, then let me spell it out. The idea of perceptions changing from a prison planet to a place of education explains quite a bit about how people operate. For example, JFK was a would-be educator playing the role of a prison warder, and was duly sacked. Whether Donald Trump is or isn’t more of the same, and whether or not he gets the sack, is the critical issue of the current ‘debate’ in the US. The same question is also the subject of this thread, only with reference to Bill Ryan. It is all about perceptions, which is ultimately unhelpful, boring – someone here yawned – basically because there is a sliding scale of competence: a competent jailer is a poor pedagogue, a good pedagogue a hopeless jailer. Where exactly Bill Ryan or anyone else sits on this scale is of secondary importance; they are what they are, and we each make what we can of it. I think that is all I have to say on the subject.

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    Senior Member NotAPretender's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by giovonni View Post
    No grudge, just general dislike ...

    PS ~ And mistrust.
    you know I really get that one, I felt the same way about that farmer from Texas, wanna-be smart guy and most ridiculous 'spiritually awoken' fake dude moderator I have ever seen ... what's-his-name
    “If you cannot do great things, do small things in a great way.”

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    Senior Member NotAPretender's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by araucaria View Post
    If you see the elite as incorrigible, then the prison planet model would seem to apply best to the situation – provided one takes the analogy all the way. The deprivation of our freedom by this elite indicates that they are the jailers and the rest of us the inmates. If an inmate has integrity in the sense of knowledge of being in the right place at the right time, then that would mean eventual acceptance of being guilty as charged. On the other hand, if they feel they are angels only here to help, it could possibly be out of embarrassment through feeling they are in the wrong place at the wrong time: they are innocent and the whole thing is a huge mistake. As far as we know, there have only been one or two mistakes, and the reaction was very different, one of acquiescence. Or it could be that at some stage along the way, they have grown into model prisoners almost ready for release (although release may be still some time off). They begin to trust in a miracle, which is not a miracle at all, the day those jailers open the gates to freedom. The miracle becomes automatic, inevitable, once the cosmic penitentiary has achieved the desired effect of change through admission of guilt, namely repentance. The example of Jesus would be that even the guiltless would go meekly through this process rather than attack the guards and make a break for freedom. It makes a lot of sense: better clean the slate than go on the run as an outlaw. So, guilty as charged, but after so long, guilty of what exactly? Satan’s sin is either pride or doing things back to front; or rather both: stubbornly doing things back to front, thinking he knows best. At some stage, this has got to stop and we have to get in step with the universe. The jailers are simply showing how not to do it. Learn the lesson and you can go out and be a proper angel on full power.

    The prison is not the only analogy or even the best. It was useful in Christian times, but not so much nowadays. Michael Newton’s between-life clients tend to see life here as a school. In this analogy, the starting point is not willful error but immature ignorance, but otherwise the process is similar: you learn and eventually graduate. But the pedagogy has improved: instead of telling students how useless they are, teachers emphasize the positives and give encouragement: they are on the same side. And gifted students (formerly model prisoners) help their classmates. The climate is one of cooperation, not isolation.

    Another difference between the two models is that there are a different group of people in charge. The angels only here to help are now in charge as teachers or gifted students and the former powers-that-be are slow learners at the bottom of the class. The jailers who thought they had the keys are actually lagging behind the rest, but they have been brought onside: everyone is aligned in working towards a single goal. Also in this scenario, angels who used to feel they were in the wrong place at the wrong time are no longer thinking in terms of an outdated analogy, possibly as good Christians. From the educational standpoint, they see the world differently, even though so far nothing else has changed. Instead of worshipping Christ, they act out the Christ consciousness. The last will be first and the first will be last, not in terms of power but in terms of influence. The wrong path has led to total incompetence in high places, a total dead-end. As competence takes over, the gates of the cosmic penitentiary swing open and stay open. Some inmates may be too set in their ways to notice at first.
    The thing about Jesus:
    Jesus' message was intended to exemplify forgiveness and tolerance of the fellow human being with strong emphasis on 'fellow human being'. Not of necessity did that include oppressive 'institutions' that purposefully exploit the masses. Witness his anger in the temple against 'the money changers'. A lesson in the form of a very strong metaphor of right and wrong, good and fallen morality. Exploitation is not acceptable and therefore should be opposed even while 'acceptance' remains an inherent aspect of the human experience. Otherwise known as a call to faith that the good will make things aright.
    My favorite part of the bible has always been the sermon on the mount. In essence it is a re-reference to faith and righteousness in the face of adversity. A call to the other virtues of patience and hope, faith, and even charity...Spiritual charity which is free, unlike hate petitioning to be free. Spiritual charity, free yet so many are unwilling to give.

    Quote Originally posted by Wind View Post
    Well that is great to hear, perhaps we can move on then?
    aw, c'mon my friend Wind ... it is so much fun to bash,mash, crunch and crash. Where's the harm, really. It's an exercise in self-awareness.

    araucaria not to go against Aragorn's feelings but I find your thoughts stimulating. I wouldn't stop, i would keep thinking.
    “If you cannot do great things, do small things in a great way.”

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    Senior Member Russian Federation Malisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Lord Sidious View Post
    I'm not going to tell you what I really think of this as I will get banned again..............
    Oh i could say so to, but i do not as well, let's keep it classy, but yeah

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    Listen up. I have just deleted the last four posts from this thread because they were needlessly provocative. Let's leave the ad hominems out of this, okay?
    = DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR =

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    Senior Member giovonni's Avatar
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    Question

    Oh i knew you would (i saved them) ...

    The One Truth (scrubbed)

    giggle

    Perhaps you need to do the same for little missy's above post.
    Last edited by giovonni, 18th October 2020 at 12:00.
    Presenting an alternative to the alternative community.

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    Administrator Aragorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by giovonni View Post
    Oh i knew you would (i saved them) ...

    The One Truth (scrubbed)

    giggle

    Perhaps you need to do the same for little missy's above post.
    There's nothing wrong with that post, which is why I let it stand. As I see it, they are both conceding to watch their language. Unfortunately, that is not what happened in the aftermath, which is why I've deleted the posts that followed.

    As an alternative, if people aren't going to behave ─ and that includes all participants here ─ then I can also always lock this thread if I have to, and then it's "game over". But of course, then we'll have to hear the whining about censorship again.





    Addendum: Gio has now been banned from this thread after yet another provocative post that needed deletion, so please don't reply to him on this thread anymore, because that would be unfair, given that he won't be able to read it.
    Last edited by Aragorn, 18th October 2020 at 12:55. Reason: addendum
    = DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR =

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    I didn't see the deleted posts as all that big of a deal. So we had a little clash of the old guard vs. the new guard, so what? Not like there were F bombs flying or anything. Rob's a big boy and can handle himself, and Malisa has a lot of potential. To me it would be nice to see both Rob lay down his sword and actually give a bit of a history lesson to Malisa, not just criticize her, and Malisa to lay down her sword long enough to actually give a shit about the history of PA.

    I think both are correct in that history matters, yet we can't get stuck there either.
    The unexamined life is not worth living.

    Socrates

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    Senior Member Lord Sidious's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Fred Steeves View Post
    I didn't see the deleted posts as all that big of a deal. So we had a little clash of the old guard vs. the new guard, so what? Not like there were F bombs flying or anything. Rob's a big boy and can handle himself, and Malisa has a lot of potential. To me it would be nice to see both Rob lay down his sword and actually give a bit of a history lesson to Malisa, not just criticize her, and Malisa to lay down her sword long enough to actually give a shit about the history of PA.

    I think both are correct in that history matters, yet we can't get stuck there either.
    Why would I sow seed in barren ground?
    Ní siocháin go saoirse

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    Senior Member Fred Steeves's Avatar
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    I'm not so sure the ground is barren. This kid seems to have a head on her shoulders, just not very long in the tooth life experience wise. I know what that's like. If she's smart as I think she might be, she'd at least hear your side of the story out in an objective manner.

    As an aside, might moderation consider a time limit for Gio's ban on this thread? He's one of the few battle hardened veterans still around, and if the last offensive post in question was on par with the others that got deleted, it can't have been all that egregious to warrant a permanent.
    The unexamined life is not worth living.

    Socrates

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    Senior Member Lord Sidious's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Fred Steeves View Post
    I'm not so sure the ground is barren. This kid seems to have a head on her shoulders, just not very long in the tooth life experience wise. I know what that's like. If she's smart as I think she might be, she'd at least hear your side of the story out in an objective manner.

    As an aside, might moderation consider a time limit for Gio's ban on this thread? He's one of the few battle hardened veterans still around, and if the last offensive post in question was on par with the others that got deleted, it can't have been all that egregious to warrant a permanent.
    I don't doubt the intelligence side, it's the attitude that forms a bar to any discussion.
    If it was any thicker, even Vader couldn't get through it with his lightsabre...............
    Ní siocháin go saoirse

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    It is hard to grasp all of the ins and outs of PA history, who said what to whom and why and etc...but it's worth noting that there are no saints on PA. That's for sure. Some posters I thought highly of turned out to be a bit racist, and if not racist, not able to imagine being anything other than white. I think if you can say a forum has a sub-text, that would be it. And I think Bill Ryan falls into that category. He sets the tone, even if it is to veer away from those threads and not offer an opinion. Not speaking up, speaks volumes.

    And I get how white people who are struggling financially and don't have any particular beef with any other race would be bugged by the "guilty by association,' thing, but they have to understand that, within the criminal justice system, racism is systemic. It's not about how they feel and relate to other races, it's about a system that was set up by wealthy white men and has gotten worse not better. So it breaks down by race and class but those who aren't white get the worst of it.

    Anyway...back to topic!

    Quote Originally posted by Fred Steeves View Post
    I'm not so sure the ground is barren. This kid seems to have a head on her shoulders, just not very long in the tooth life experience wise. I know what that's like. If she's smart as I think she might be, she'd at least hear your side of the story out in an objective manner.

    As an aside, might moderation consider a time limit for Gio's ban on this thread? He's one of the few battle hardened veterans still around, and if the last offensive post in question was on par with the others that got deleted, it can't have been all that egregious to warrant a permanent.
    Malisa is a sweet intelligent girl. She has a lot going for her. She is very direct, which some people will put off some people. But she does have a point about age not conferring wisdom, necessarily. Boomers can be some of the most ignorant blind fools out there. They start out with skulls full of slurry that turns to concrete over the decades.

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    Administrator Aragorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Fred Steeves View Post
    I'm not so sure the ground is barren. This kid seems to have a head on her shoulders, just not very long in the tooth life experience wise. I know what that's like. If she's smart as I think she might be, she'd at least hear your side of the story out in an objective manner.
    Perhaps that matter should then best be handled via private messages.

    Quote Originally posted by Fred Steeves View Post
    As an aside, might moderation consider a time limit for Gio's ban on this thread? He's one of the few battle hardened veterans still around, and if the last offensive post in question was on par with the others that got deleted, it can't have been all that egregious to warrant a permanent.
    It wasn't so much the post in and of itself, but rather the deliberately trollish intent behind it, and the fact that it was a verbatim copy of one of his earlier posts on this thread. It was trolling for the sake of trolling. He had already made his point earlier ─ ad nauseam, even ─ and there was no need for him to keep tooting that same horn over and over and over again. We heard him the first time.

    = DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR =

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