What Motivates Bill Ryan of Project Avalon Community Forum?

[Fred Steeves]

The reason that there was so much oppoaition to this information was because it includes concepts that go against the grain.

Bullshit! The reason, is that these other people you're referring to are not stupid, they've been there done that, and they know New Age drivel repackaged as something new and exciting when they see it.

The problem over there is not that seasoned members can by now see through most Johnny come lately recycled spiritual mumbo jumbo, because they clearly can as evidenced by your particular example and others. The problem, is that they are blind when it comes from their own fearless leader and some of those he insists on endorsing.

Other than that those are smart and experienced people over there, and you have blown a chance to learn a thing or two from them just as you are very likely to do here as well.

[sourcetruth]

Bullshit! The reason, is that these other people you're referring to are not stupid, they've been there done that, and they know New Age drivel repackaged as something new and exciting when they see it.

The problem over there is not that seasoned members can by now see through most Johnny come lately recycled spiritual mumbo jumbo, because they clearly can as evidenced by your particular example and others. The problem, is that they are blind when it comes from their own fearless leader and those he endorses.

Other than that those are smart and experienced people over there, and you have blown a chance to learn a thing or two from them just as you are very likely to do here as well.

Although I have argued that it is not simply repackaged material, that is besides the point.

Repackaged or not, I wanted to discuss the statements that were made. When they rejwct something because they see it as something "repackaged", that is not giving the topic a fair chance of being discussed.

But they are indeed blind to their leader in the way you speak of. After he made a post towarda me throwing shade at me, there was a huge surge in opposition towards my thread. That is what I am concerned about, because it shows how they will blindly follow Bill Ryan.

I am willing ot learnthings from others, but I also expect that others should be willing to consider what I say.

[sourcetruth]

It is clear to me now from reading this thread what Bill Ryan and his forum really is. I am not surprised to see that others have criticized him and his forum.
Tell me, does anyone here actually still have respect for Bill Ryan and his forum?

[Chris]

Welcome to the forum sourcetruth.

I had a somewhat similar experience with PA and BR last year, though in hindsight he was kinda right, at least from his perspective, as the person responsible for the safety of his followers and forum members. I know it really hurts when you are excluded from a community you feel a valuable member of, there is a reason that exile and banishment have always been such effective punishments.

In any case, most of us have some history with BR and PA over here at TOT, generally not a happy one, but have moved on and I suggest you do the same. I don't know anything about your material and I don't visit over at PA any more, but I'm certainly happy to hear it.

[Aragorn]

It is clear to me now from reading this thread what Bill Ryan and his forum really is. I am not surprised to see that others have criticized him and his forum.
Tell me, does anyone here actually still have respect for Bill Ryan and his forum?

Yes, absolutely. But one always has to clean one's own house first before complaining about another man's house being dirty.

Bill Ryan is a man with both flaws and qualities, like every last one of us. He has made mistakes in the past, and he'll probably still be making mistakes in the future, because such is the nature of being human and living in a confusing world. Let him who is without sin cast the first stone, and all that. But I am convinced that Bill is trying to do the right thing, and that he's trying very hard to protect the community he has built.

As a forum, Project Avalon has certain standards, and Bill wants to uphold those standards. You may not agree with either those standards or the way Bill and his moderators go about in protecting them ─ and such is your prerogative ─ but you have to keep in mind that in the end, it's his forum, and therefore his rules.

For that matter, The One Truth now has a good working relationship with Project Avalon, and I have personally been having numerous very positive exchanges with Bill over the course of now a year and a half or so. I respect Bill, and I respect his moderators too ─ they are all fine people.

Even good people without ulterior agendas don't always see eye to eye. This is yet another challenge life throws at us. The least we can all do is try getting along and respecting the other person's opinion, even if we don't agree with it. There's enough evil in the world already, so the last thing we need is infighting among the good people.

[Elen]

Even good people without ulterior agendas don't always see eye to eye. This is yet another challenge life throws at us. The least we can all do is try getting along and respecting the other person's opinion, even if we don't agree with it. There's enough evil in the world already, so the last thing we need is infighting among the good people.

You've said it Brother...I agree 100%

[sourcetruth]

My problem is not just with the way that Bill has acted towards me (moving my thread to "known hoaxes and other bad information", confronting me in comments instead of discussing the topic, then BANNING me), it is the group herd mentaility at the forum as a whole. All of the posts of people that were taking a hard stance against me and the topic that I preaented were getting up to 10 "thanks" per post, and Bill himself got 14 "thanks" in his post when he banned me. In contrast, I got absolutely 0" thanks" on that forum after the 1st page of it.

The group herd mentaility is evident on my thread. After Bill made a post where he attacked me, all of the other members that were on the thread all began attacking me at once. This shows how much influence that Bill has on the people at the forum, he is acting as the ringleader that the group herd follows. This is one of the main probelms I have found with Bill, he is able to create a following that will always side with him and will group up on posters in threads.

The group herd mentality is not just about Bill though, it is the group members themselves that are part of it. There was this kind of grouping before, but it became much more intense after Bill's post.

This shows what type of forum that Bill has established, which reveals a lot about himself and how he is able to establish this kind of forum.

Not only did the topic I try to discuss get completely rejected, but I was personally attacked in many ways. When I say that everyone was opposing me, I am not just saying that they took a hard stance against the content of the topic, but they also took a hard stance against me and they attacked the channel that I shared, on top of completely rejecting it.
I got attacked and smeared in many qays. They said many absurd things about me that are obviously not true. They accused me of being the owner of that channel or "working with them", of having multiple people commenting through my account, lying about my age, and other stuff. What they said about the channel was that it was a scam, cult, and copying other people, and other stuff.

This is not the way that an open minded spiritual community would behave.

[Chris]

My problem is not just with the way that Bill has acted towards me (moving my thread to "known hoaxes and other bad information", confronting me in comments instead of discussing the topic, then BANNING me), it is the group herd mentaility at the forum as a whole. All of the posts of people that were taking a hard stance against me and the topic that I preaented were getting up to 10 "thanks" per post, and Bill himself got 14 "thanks" in his post when he banned me. In contrast, I got absolutely 0" thanks" on that forum after the 1st page of it.

The group herd mentaility is evident on my thread. After Bill made a post where he attacked me, all of the other members that were on the thread all began attacking me at once. This shows how much influence that Bill has on the people at the forum, he is acting as the ringleader that the group herd follows. This is one of the main probelms I have found with Bill, he is able to create a following that will always side with him and will group up on posters in threads.

The group herd mentality is not just about Bill though, it is the group members themselves that are part of it. There was this kind of grouping before, but it became much more intense after Bill's post.

This shows what type of forum that Bill has established, which reveals a lot about himself and how he is able to establish this kind of forum.

Not only did the topic I try to discuss get completely rejected, but I was personally attacked in many ways. When I say that everyone was opposing me, I am not just saying that they took a hard stance against the content of the topic, but they also took a hard stance against me and they attacked the channel that I shared, on top of completely rejecting it.
I got attacked and smeared in many qays. They said many absurd things about me that are obviously not true. They accused me of being the owner of that channel or "working with them", of having multiple people commenting through my account, lying about my age, and other stuff. What they said about the channel was that it was a scam, cult, and copying other people, and other stuff.

This is not the way that an open minded spiritual community would behave.

I can't say I disagree with any of that... In fact I pretty much reported the same experience with my similarly short-lived tenure over at PA on my welcome thread over here at TOT. But, that is of course how I experienced it, that is, it was my subjective lived experience and not necessarily the objective fact of the matter. I think with time, you might look back at your time at PA from a different point of view and learn from it. I know, I did.

It doesn't change the fact though that humans are herd animals and we are liable to groupthink. The bigger the group, the stupider we generally are. If there is a designated leader that people respect and look up to, we tend to defer to their judgement. One of the advantages of a small forum like this one, is that people generally know each other quite well, there is less scope for misunderstandings and people tend to develop individual points of view, rather than just try to blend in with the herd. PA certainly has a herd mentality thing going on and of course it is Bill's forum, so people will defer to him. That to me creates a hierarchical structure, that I strongly dislike. There is certainly a subtle pecking order in place, where some can get away with stuff that others never would get away with. It certainly is unfair, but that's just the way a forum like that will work.

[Dreamtimer]

I have seen some folks leave Bill's forum for good reasons. And many of them have gone back and are posting there once again. I can't say why.

It's a larger group. There is more feedback.

I was never a member there.

I don't personally know what motivates Bill. Certainly he started off looking for truth(s). He has said he sees the forum as a library. It's a private library in many ways. He doesn't seem to go around doing interviews like he used to.

A couple of former TOT members are posting there now about climate and vaccines. They seem to find more folks sympathetic to their views and that seems to be what they desire.

A good, vigorous debate is desirable, imo. But that is not what many folks want. And it is difficult to do with just written text. People can easily misunderstand words without the human expression that goes along with it.

Bill has stated more than once that he doesn't want his forum to look bad. And that is a subjective thing.

He showcased Joe from the Carolinas and encouraged members to view his videos. Joe himself noted that his traffic depends a great deal on the topics, and unfortunately permaculture just doesn't bring in the views. That's a shame, imo.

I suppose a perusal of Bill's Q & A thread would reveal some of his motives but I haven't read it closely.

I don't see why talking about crystals would be so much worse in terms of image than the rabbit hole of Qanon. The latter topic has a very strong following. So whether or not it makes the forum look bad Bill can't really stop it. No doubt he must rely a great deal on his moderators.

[sourcetruth]

I am checking back on the same thread that I got banned from and the accusations against me are becoming absurd. There is this one completely absurd accusation that they keep making, which is that there is multiple people using my account! How absurd is that? They are trying to explain me away as something that I am not so that they can reject everything that I say. It is evern more apparent of a group mentality on that forum.

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...matrix./page16

[Aianawa]

My problem is not just with the way that Bill has acted towards me (moving my thread to "known hoaxes and other bad information", confronting me in comments instead of discussing the topic, then BANNING me), it is the group herd mentaility at the forum as a whole. All of the posts of people that were taking a hard stance against me and the topic that I preaented were getting up to 10 "thanks" per post, and Bill himself got 14 "thanks" in his post when he banned me. In contrast, I got absolutely 0" thanks" on that forum after the 1st page of it.

The group herd mentaility is evident on my thread. After Bill made a post where he attacked me, all of the other members that were on the thread all began attacking me at once. This shows how much influence that Bill has on the people at the forum, he is acting as the ringleader that the group herd follows. This is one of the main probelms I have found with Bill, he is able to create a following that will always side with him and will group up on posters in threads.

The group herd mentality is not just about Bill though, it is the group members themselves that are part of it. There was this kind of grouping before, but it became much more intense after Bill's post.

This shows what type of forum that Bill has established, which reveals a lot about himself and how he is able to establish this kind of forum.

Not only did the topic I try to discuss get completely rejected, but I was personally attacked in many ways. When I say that everyone was opposing me, I am not just saying that they took a hard stance against the content of the topic, but they also took a hard stance against me and they attacked the channel that I shared, on top of completely rejecting it.
I got attacked and smeared in many qays. They said many absurd things about me that are obviously not true. They accused me of being the owner of that channel or "working with them", of having multiple people commenting through my account, lying about my age, and other stuff. What they said about the channel was that it was a scam, cult, and copying other people, and other stuff.

This is not the way that an open minded spiritual community would behave.

Feel for you, had a wee journey there and turned the other cheek much, still not nice to get banned.

[Aragorn]

I am checking back on the same thread that I got banned from and the accusations against me are becoming absurd. There is this one completely absurd accusation that they keep making, which is that there is multiple people using my account! How absurd is that? They are trying to explain me away as something that I am not so that they can reject everything that I say. It is evern more apparent of a group mentality on that forum.

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...matrix./page16

At this point, you should be able to separate the management of Project Avalon from the member base. Bill made a management decision with regard to your membership there, but you have to keep in mind that the reactions and claims from the members are not his responsibility.

Project Avalon is a huge forum in comparison to The One Truth. It is huge both in terms of its circumference and in terms of its member base. And with that many members ─ with personalities of all types ─ cruising the huge labyrinth of information that Project Avalon is, it is inevitable that certain subcultures within the member base arise.

Upon my initial return to Project Avalon, I happened to run into a confrontation with such a subculture, namely that of the (predominantly US-American) QAnon followers, many of whom identify with what is known in the USA as the "alt-right" ─ i.e. a far-right movement that rejects science in favor of pseudoscience, and that conservatively and anxiously seeks to cling to capitalism and The American Way™. For them, anyone who would even remotely adhere a progressive political stance is by definition the enemy.

That very same political movement ─ I am not talking of the Project Avalon members who adhere said political orientation, but of the movement in general ─ is what gave us such gems as that Michelle Obama would be either a man in drag or a transgender, and that Hillary Clinton is a baby-eating, satanic and lesbian witch. It is also this same movement that believes that vaccines cause autism, that we never went to the moon, and ─ in extreme cases ─ that Earth would be flat, and that Hitler and the Nazis were the good guys. We have seen very similar claims here at The One Truth, so ─ again ─ it's not unique to Project Avalon.

Bill and his moderators were not happy with the representatives of that movement running amok over at Project Avalon, and it was in Bill's absence that several of Bill's staff members, who had aligned themselves with this movement, started what could more or less be regarded as a civil war among the moderators. There were also other, more personal factors involved, so it wasn't all about the QAnon- and Trump-mania, but the fact remains that this situation cleaved the entire Project Avalon mod room in half, and that friends suddenly turned out not to be friends anymore. This was a painful episode for Bill and his remaining staff members.

Anyway, to cut the long story short, the bottom line of what I'm trying to say is that you should not hold Bill accountable for the reactions of some of his members, because Bill doesn't control that, and he doesn't necessarily agree with it either. People will do as people will do, and especially when you have such large numbers of people flocking together on a single forum.

And perhaps it's getting old, but yes, even here at The One Truth we have seen such behavior in the past, when our active member base was still a bit larger than it is now. Certain members go about their ways with a sense of entitlement ─ thereby helped by the fact that communication via a text-only medium comes with a certain degree of anonymity ─ and when the mods then don't step in right away, then these members start feeling even more entitled, and then they drag the others along with them and become "leaders of civil unrest", and so on. Trust me, we've see it here too, and we've had our share of cult behavior here as well.

If you are really as young as you claim to be ─ not that I'm doubting you, mind you ─ then you are very intelligent for your age, but at the same time, youth does mean inexperience. And trust me on this, you will come to experience many more dark sides of the human psyche on your path through life ─ perhaps even more than people of my generation, because I have a distinct impression that everything's accelerating nowadays. Trends come and go in rapid succession, people are also much quicker at judging one another, and the next public outcry (over whatever subject) seems only seconds or minutes away anymore. Things are becoming more chaotic all the time, all over the world.

Bill Ryan did not think you were a suitable member for Project Avalon ─ whether his opinion was just or not ─ and so he unsubscribed you. The reaction of the Project Avalon members to this event on the other hand is something you should see as completely separate. It's easy to talk behind someone's back when they're gone ─ and we've all been guilty of that to a certain degree at some point in our life ─ but it's only human nature. You shouldn't place too much value in what others are saying. In a few weeks from now, it'll all be but a faint and foggy memory anymore anyway. Because that, too, is human nature.

Welcome to Planet Earth, kid. It is one of the most beautiful planets in the galaxy, but it is not one of the nicest places to be.

[sourcetruth]

At this point, you should be able to separate the management of Project Avalon from the member base. Bill made a management decision with regard to your membership there, but you have to keep in mind that the reactions and claims from the members are not his responsibility.

Project Avalon is a huge forum in comparison to The One Truth. It is huge both in terms of its circumference and in terms of its member base. And with that many members ─ with personalities of all types ─ cruising the huge labyrinth of information that Project Avalon is, it is inevitable that certain subcultures within the member base arise.

Upon my initial return to Project Avalon, I happened to run into a confrontation with such a subculture, namely that of the (predominantly US-American) QAnon followers, many of whom identify with what is known in the USA as the "alt-right" ─ i.e. a far-right movement that rejects science in favor of pseudoscience, and that conservatively and anxiously seeks to cling to capitalism and The American Way™. For them, anyone who would even remotely adhere a progressive political stance is by definition the enemy.

That very same political movement ─ I am not talking of the Project Avalon members who adhere said political orientation, but of the movement in general ─ is what gave us such gems as that Michelle Obama would be either a man in drag or a transgender, and that Hillary Clinton is a baby-eating, satanic and lesbian witch. It is also this same movement that believes that vaccines cause autism, that we never went to the moon, and ─ in extreme cases ─ that Earth would be flat, and that Hitler and the Nazis were the good guys. We have seen very similar claims here at The One Truth, so ─ again ─ it's not unique to Project Avalon.

Bill and his moderators were not happy with the representatives of that movement running amok over at Project Avalon, and it was in Bill's absence that several of Bill's staff members, who had aligned themselves with this movement, started what could more or less be regarded as a civil war among the moderators. There were also other, more personal factors involved, so it wasn't all about the QAnon- and Trump-mania, but the fact remains that this situation cleaved the entire Project Avalon mod room in half, and that friends suddenly turned out not to be friends anymore. This was a painful episode for Bill and his remaining staff members.

Anyway, to cut the long story short, the bottom line of what I'm trying to say is that you should not hold Bill accountable for the reactions of some of his members, because Bill doesn't control that, and he doesn't necessarily agree with it either. People will do as people will do, and especially when you have such large numbers of people flocking together on a single forum.

And perhaps it's getting old, but yes, even here at The One Truth we have seen such behavior in the past, when our active member base was still a bit larger than it is now. Certain members go about their ways with a sense of entitlement ─ thereby helped by the fact that communication via a text-only medium comes with a certain degree of anonymity ─ and when the mods then don't step in right away, then these members start feeling even more entitled, and then they drag the others along with them and become "leaders of civil unrest", and so on. Trust me, we've see it here too, and we've had our share of cult behavior here as well.

If you are really as young as you claim to be ─ not that I'm doubting you, mind you ─ then you are very intelligent for your age, but at the same time, youth does mean inexperience. And trust me on this, you will come to experience many more dark sides of the human psyche on your path through life ─ perhaps even more than people of my generation, because I have a distinct impression that everything's accelerating nowadays. Trends come and go in rapid succession, people are also much quicker at judging one another, and the next public outcry (over whatever subject) seems only seconds or minutes away anymore. Things are becoming more chaotic all the time, all over the world.

Bill Ryan did not think you were a suitable member for Project Avalon ─ whether his opinion was just or not ─ and so he unsubscribed you. The reaction of the Project Avalon members to this event on the other hand is something you should see as completely separate. It's easy to talk behind someone's back when they're gone ─ and we've all been guilty of that to a certain degree at some point in our life ─ but it's only human nature. You shouldn't place too much value in what others are saying. In a few weeks from now, it'll all be but a faint and foggy memory anymore anyway. Because that, too, is human nature.

Welcome to Planet Earth, kid. It is one of the most beautiful planets in the galaxy, but it is not one of the nicest places to be.

The problem is that Bill Ryan and his forum member base are intertwined with each other and with the other members of the forum. When one acts, the others will follow. This is what is happening here and what others are describing in this thread.

It is a weird analogy to a sheep and a shephard, because the sheep are not only following the shephard and the other sheep, but the shephard in this case (Bill Ryan) is following his herd, essentialy becoming one of the sheep himself, which is what makes it weird.

[sourcetruth]

Feel for you, had a wee journey there and turned the other cheek much, still not nice to get banned.

It seems that the forum is attempting to make a sort of exclusivity. This is shown in the way that they make you submit a lengthy application in your registration process that overreaches questions about you.

[Aianawa]

While only there a short time, waiting for the final cut lol, yes I could have been more tidy, they did not like new, as in 1320 material or censorship issues unproven, irony, > http://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...icial-timeline.