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Thread: What Motivates Bill Ryan of Project Avalon Community Forum?

  1. #136
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    Lord Sid,
    Can you point me to those posts so I can understand better?
    I am a PA2 member, but am trying to understand the perspective here.

    Pamela

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  3. #137
    Senior Member Lord Sidious's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by pabranno View Post
    Lord Sid,
    Can you point me to those posts so I can understand better?
    I am a PA2 member, but am trying to understand the perspective here.

    Pamela
    There are only 137 posts in this thread.
    I posted and others posted about our experiences
    Ní siocháin go saoirse

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  5. #138
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    Quote Originally posted by Aianawa View Post
    Gee Dumpy, I feel your very xlent at derailing and rerailing while having fun also, crikey derailing is an art ( not including trollies ) and our snug forum of differing artist is very fortunate indeed imo.

    Now, back to the story of Bill's behaviour patterns and shadow fighting.
    Thanks. And I do agree I derail and then re-rail. In spite of what The Donkster sez, I do obey rulez...sometimes.
    "Holding onto anger is like drinking poison and expecting the object of your anger to die” ~ Anon
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  7. #139
    Senior Member Fred Steeves's Avatar
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    Here's an interesting little diddly. What might be the motivation of throwing a friend and fellow ufo researcher's credibility under the bus, only to come back a short time later to reiterate the importance of their work?

    Here is Bill just a short time back, showing little regard for Mr. Disinformation himself Richard Doty's MJ 12 "leaks".

    Quote Originally posted by Bill Ryan View Post
    Quote Originally posted by PathWalker View Post
    Official documents have low validity.
    I do understand your point. But court documents are court documents. This wasn't a briefing from MJ-12 leaked by Richard Doty!
    http://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...65#post1179565

    Yet now these MJ "leaks" are back to being very important again.

    Quote Originally posted by Bill Ryan View Post
    Yes. This is old news, of course, presented by Ancient Aliens for a popular audience.

    There's a thread about the very important 1954 SOM1-01 manual here:

    http://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...t=#post1182547



    Which takes us back to this 2015 thread, about this very important manual:
    http://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...Manual-SOM1-01

    Where at post #9, he again showcases the importance, and vouches for the validity:

    Quote Originally posted by Bill Ryan View Post
    ------

    This is all about the very well-known (among ufologists) Special Operations Manual SOM1-01.

    Expert government document analysts who've studied it closely, such as MajesticDocuments.com team Robert and Ryan Wood, agree that it's the most likely to be completely genuine of all the mass of UFO documents that have surfaced; the odds, many researchers say, are almost certain. Every little detail adds up to it being the authentic, real thing.

    All the individual pages are here, as originally leaked on undeveloped film:

    http://specialoperationsmanual.com/the-manual

    (The website http://specialoperationsmanual.com contains a wealth of specialized information)

    Here's a single PDF of all the original photographed pages:

    http://projectavalon.net/SOM1-01_original_complete.pdf



    Here's a reconstructed replica:

    http://projectavalon.net/SOM1-01_Replica.pdf



    And here's a high-quality reproduction of the contents (not actually a replica):

    http://projectavalon.net/SOM1-01_Reconstruction.pdf

    Thing is, if you Google "SOM 1-01 Richard Doty", you find yourself back in the midst of the Richard Doty Runaround once again. Here's an example, and this is where Linda Moulton Howe always enters the picture:

    Linda Moulton Howe, who stated she saw this document on April 9, 1983 – 18 months before Shandera found it in his letterbox. Howe identified the man that showed it to her as Richard Doty, an AFOSI agent who had been co-operating with Moore in the disinformation campaign direct against Bennewitz.
    http://philipcoppens.com/majestic12.html

    So what's going on here? Is it just a sign of forgetful old age settling in? A little good cop/bad cop action? Instilling cognitive dissonance?

    What indeed, would be the motivation for standing firm that MJ 12 is both credible, and non credible?
    The unexamined life is not worth living.

    Socrates

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  9. #140
    Senior Member Lord Sidious's Avatar
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    Sad when people get old and nugget.
    He has all the credibility of a flat tyre
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  11. #141
    Administrator Aragorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Lord Sidious View Post
    Quote Originally posted by Fred Steeves View Post
    Here's an interesting little diddly. What might be the motivation of throwing a friend and fellow ufo researcher's credibility under the bus, only to come back a short time later to reiterate the importance of their work?

    Here is Bill just a short time back, showing little regard for Mr. Disinformation himself Richard Doty's MJ 12 "leaks".

    [...]

    So what's going on here? Is it just a sign of forgetful old age settling in? [...]
    Sad when people get old and nugget.
    He has all the credibility of a flat tyre
    I have a theory — well, if you want to call it that — that his memory isn't quite anywhere near as good as as what people give him credit for, and that this is one of the reasons why he manically keeps detailed records of everything, such as every e-mail or PM ever sent or received, every Avalon member's personal details, et al.

    We know he's obsessive-compulsive, not to mention that he's a Scientologist and a supporter of Werner Erhard — he did, by his own admission, attend the EST seminars — and just as in the case of the alphabet soup spooks, having a hard copy of everything gives you much better control in strategic situations than having to rely on your memory.

    Now, if you keep a record of everything on a computer, then that becomes a secondary storage to your own memory, but the problem is that you'd then be relying on this secondary storage for an accurate recount of something that happened, and if your primary storage — i.e. the brain — doesn't contain that same information while you're also not thinking about verifying any given situation with the information in your records, then you screw up.

    Of course, we also know he's a liar and a skillful manipulator. I have ample first-hand evidence of that.
    = DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR =

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  13. #142
    Senior Member NotAPretender's Avatar
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    well, we probably all know that the personality disordered can never keep their stories straight. And, some normal people do change their minds.

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  15. #143
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    One thing I do notice is that there are people who seem entrapped by the scandals and loathings of this individual, to the point they appear to be extremely preoccupied with him and the subjects surrounding him. With such obsession it hints at a hang up for other reasons which keep the topic emotional and fertile for them. I guess that's the difference with some people, some fairly much excommunicate such people and allow them no more time or energy.
    I personally have never given this fellow any special status, he is just a poo factory like everyone else, and I don't believe he really has any influence in the field of vision, he is just a test for individuals to pass on their way to becoming, aware.
    Sometimes the dramas of the community seem to be far more chaotic than the nature of the info we are collectively digesting. The community represents much more to some. Some have attached social reasonings to their presense, they have attached parts of their ego and expectations and entangled their hearts in the timelines of the stories they have viewed. The cathartic release of some of the material can form linkages to the storyteller I suppose, it is our job to be vigilant of these. Many times we see where it has not been policed and we have various neuroses develop in individuals.
    I suppose it is par for the course in the way of people being open and vulnerable. And that humans have become generally preoccupied with being submissive slave minded consumers, so there are many bad habits to break. I could also imagine that being a story teller and cracking open the hives of honey, will make you smell of honey, even though you just cracked a shell and split open a wall to get to honey and are quite removed from BEING the honey, people will still tend to think that you are the honey.
    Last edited by enjoy being, 30th September 2017 at 23:46.

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  17. #144
    Senior Member donk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Nothing View Post
    One thing I do notice is that there are people who seem entrapped by the scandals and loathings of this individual, to the point they appear to be extremely preoccupied with him and the subjects surrounding him. With such obsession it hints at a hang up for other reasons which keep the topic emotional and fertile for them. I guess that's the difference with some people, some fairly much excommunicate such people and allow them no more time or energy.
    I personally have never given this fellow any special status, he is just a poo factory like everyone else, and I don't believe he really has any influence in the field of vision, he is just a test for individuals to pass on their way to becoming, aware.
    Sometimes the dramas of the community seem to be far more chaotic than the nature of the info we are collectively digesting. The community represents much more to some. Some have attached social reasonings to their presense, they have attached parts of their ego and expectations and entangled their hearts in the timelines of the stories they have viewed. The cathartic release of some of the material can form linkages to the storyteller I suppose, it is our job to be vigilant of these. Many times we see where it has not been policed and we have various neuroses develop in individuals.
    I suppose it is par for the course in the way of people being open and vulnerable. And that humans have become generally preoccupied with being submissive slave minded consumers, so there are many bad habits to break. I could also imagine that being a story teller and cracking open the hives of honey, will make you smell of honey, even though you just cracked a shell and split open a wall to get to honey and are quite removed from BEING the honey, people will still tend to think that you are the honey.
    I am one of those "entrapped", as I experienced almost as much "truth" about him as he got "truth of Corey Goode"

    I don't relate to the "community" as I once did, but I feel sharing my "truth" is every bit as valid and important as his. And I feel he's WAY more influential (and therefore "dangerous") to the community than the dude he's gaining cred for calling out.

    Most importantly, I genuinely LIKED...even LOVED...most posters on Avalon. I am more worried about them than the "community" at large. I know some them peek over here, and that most...if not all...are very smart. Those of them that will question their beliefs and think really hard about what they're enabling is the only peeps I hope to help.

    The rest is selfish, I'll admit it. I find it educational and reflective to air out my remaining issues with the experience...similar stuff cycles around in my real life, and always has. Sometimes the "rants" are a release that helps with REAL, personal change.
    What is the purpose of your presence?

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  19. #145
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    I was in the throes of an additional post stating how I hold contradicting views in so much as I believe it is also healthy to investigate these things and link all the puddles to their various drips. I guess I have become even more cynical than ever in some respects, in that I find it quite rare that anyone actually measures up with their honey sharing, y'know, there's always the different layers. I have become more desensitised to being outraged or intrigued over stories. I love archaeology, but even that seems like a series of thousands of narrow no exit lanes, as we wait and wait for the huge amount of evidence to have any impact at all.

    I guess it is like a sock puppet enthusiasts group having a massive argument because one of the sock puppets tried to pretend to be a puppeteer, and the Chief Sock, after initially being okay with it, got all upset when all the foolish became fooled. So the Chief Sock had to tell all the rest of the socks that the other sock was not really a puppeteer but just a sock like the rest.... Yeah I guess it is sort of like that to me, where it is so bloody absurd anyone would believe for a second that the sock puppet was a puppeteer or any of it was anything more than some silly bunch of repurposed odd socks.

    hmm lol

    I'd like to learn new and better ways of sharing my displeasure constructively.
    Last edited by enjoy being, 1st October 2017 at 01:33.

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  21. #146
    Senior Member NotAPretender's Avatar
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    My experience was that I felt abused by the community...I suppose I had it coming because as I most often do, I disregarded the 'rules' of community that exist in most 'polite' societies. <sigh> I'm so misunderstood... . In effect, when I was there I 'targeted' individuals that were spreading negative propaganda, negative in the sense that it totally violated my sense of 'truth' and 'reality' and just basic 'goodness'. The most vocal of the propagandists were viciously evil pretending to 'better the world!'. One has to understand that my only exposure to the forum world was a few years I spent on a forum that was dedicated to an active serial killer. One can imagine what the environment's prevailing ambience was, kill or be killed. At the end, I was reputedly the only original poster that survived the experience under his/her original avatar, everyone else had been booted on more than one occasion.

    I will readily admit that I was somewhat in awe of the level of 'intelligence' and the abilitiy to 'articulate' which is essentially why I was very embittered by the experience. When I joined Avalon, I was expecting a group of 'outed' mystics, astrologers, spiritual, ufo researchers, and caring individuals but what I immediately encountered was shocking to me and I went into attack mode. And, of course, as 'evil' was the predominant voice, I got smashed... lol, smashed I say, with the help of the p.t.b.

    This board is much closer to what I expected at Avalon. so yayyy for that. A member here suggested it.

    I think I'm over it now...I just need a little adrenaline fix now and then and I confess I love drama when it ain't mine...

    NAP
    Last edited by NotAPretender, 1st October 2017 at 17:08.

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    Senior Member Aianawa's Avatar
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    Imo atm avoiding not avoiding the what is, is partly a noospheric transmission.

    And transission

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    Super Moderator United States Dreamtimer's Avatar
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    I enjoy the periodic Aianawan koan. It's a spontaneous moment of the mind being moved into a new awareness.

    The last thirteen years have seen major transitions for me.

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  27. #149
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    Quote Originally posted by giovonni View Post
    Well - if anything BR can be thankful how this thread has regressed ...

    Surprised more PA2 members aren't here helping it along that line?

    PS ~ i will leave you all to it.
    Hi Gio, good to be interacting again with you and some others. I gather you have a health issue; I am sure it will be resolved with all due haste.

    I have no speculations to make about Bill Ryan’s motivations. As with anyone else, if one digs deep down through the endless layers of trauma and hurt and sickness that have afflicted humanity over eons, and turned victims into perpetrators, one will doubtless find them to be pure. That attitude is for myself. For the sake of others, however, I have to prefer a much more severe and pragmatic stance. When enough people independently reach the same conclusion identifying a particular source with too much harm to too many people, then it is time to do something.

    As to my own motivations and late arrival on this board, I do have a bit of ’splainin’ to do, which reflects indirectly on BR. My last post on Avalon was on 5 July. From a public forum standpoint, I am just a member who hasn’t posted for a while. However, there was a disagreement with the forum owner which was promptly hidden in the members only section. I may or may not repost some of that material, I really don’t know. But it means my online presence is effectively a misrepresentation of who I am and what I am about. I enrolled here notably to correct that, but also of course in order to carry on where I left off. I have not retired from PA, mostly to maintain ready access to my personal intellectual property there, but since to post again would amount to backing off and toeing the line, I am not prepared to do that.

    Regarding who I am, something has not changed: this is reflected in my keeping my earlier screen name. The araucaria input here carries on from the araucaria input over there, and defines a singular source, the individual human being at the keyboard. What has changed is my transfer of my activity from a forum that is dysfunctional as a community to one seemingly more aware of the problem, hence likely closer to finding a solution. The notion of the collective, the community, i.e. how we deal with the self/others dichotomy, being central to my thinking. I intend to start a thread on that subject in the near future.

    I read a lot about the inadequacy of duality. If you don’t like duality, then you are in for a hard time, because duality is merely the beginner’s introduction to all-out multiplicity. And a harder time still if your answer is to go off crying for an immediate return to oneness with mother. Or if you short-circuit the open-ended dialectical process in a circular Problem-Reaction-Solution approach. Or if you are a slave to artificial intelligence, stuck in binary processing. We are actually dealing in fuzzy logic.
    These forums are fuzzy sets where ‘the degree of membership of a person in the set (...) is more flexible than a simple yes or no answer.’

    The challenge of the universe is multiplicity out of oneness; you can work your way all the up to an ultimate creator of everything, but that challenge of dealing with multiplicity will still be the same at the very highest level. It may actually be that the ‘Creator’ has got itself as it were into a tight spot that only tiny finite beings can extricate it from. But this would only be a time-based way of saying that multiplicity is here to stay, and so are ‘we’. Intrication and extrication are timeless, i.e. ever simultaneous.

    In relational terms, this means there is self and there are others: not others as part of self, or for that matter self as merely part of others – both selfhood and otherness defining each other and taking the process further. I am what I am both in function of the traits I have and in function of the traits I do not have but see in others. On the face of it, my one self stands little chance amid increasing millions, billions... of others, all increasingly different in increasingly different ways. One can understand the perceived need to look after one’s self as a precious expression of oneness. Unfortunately it doesn’t work that way. We are all unique, hence being unique is actually what draws us all together: uniqueness is the commonest characteristic in the universe. The unique self is so in its element that it can take care of itself. Instead of ‘it’s all about me’, we can truly say and thrive on ‘it is all so NOT about me’. It is all about others and otherness: they are for real – except of course any who would exclude themselves from that reality.

    This applies to the example of Bill Ryan and Avalonians, who are not reducible to mere sub-elements of BR, others as parts of self. The subject of our disagreement boils down to this very concept of the collective, and the discussion (or non-discussion) merely proved my point (to myself at least) in demonstrating how one is individualized, isolated and basically shown the door. This of course is nothing new to those here who have experienced the same thing, but it would appear that it has to be experienced first-hand. Each has to pass through a kind of turnstile to gather on the other side. I like how Nothing puts it: ‘just a test for individuals to pass on their way to becoming, aware’. A possible analogy might be culling the herd, but the one proposed was cell renewal: a forum is supposedly like a human body, which discards dead cells up to 100% in seven years. Here’s me thinking it was just a community of entire human beings, no reductionist analogies involved: some will come and go, others stay longer. Not just thinking this: actively working to make it happen. Meanwhile, BR combs out his dandruff...

    I joined Avalon as a possible source of answers to questions raised in my... literary research. This involved a range of topics to be found on such sites: esoteric spirituality, the Maya... and things like, What does the word “cosmic” mean on a Nato document? (I had found the answer to that in a Camelot interview with Bob Dean.) This is otherness bordering on intrusion, but how many others will have similar stories. You soon notice the difference between joining a forum and joining a public library: you are dealing with people first, and information second. It is not a private blog, talking to maybe no one but oneself; it is not a private correspondence of just two people exchanging; it is a full-grown grapevine of multiplicity in action where no individual can take charge, claim control or otherwise determine what goes on in any substantial, meaningful way. You always get a whole lot more than you bargained for. And conversely, you always give a whole lot more than others bargained for. This is the fact of life that the manipulators deny, and their followers are victims of that denial.
    This was for me a total reversal of perspective, for here were people with very real issues, while I had only fictitious inquiries of no importance – no importance, that is, until I adjusted my focus upon the people.

    Good forum members are drawn in to mingle and led to stay on this basis of giving something (not everything) to some (not everyone) and taking something (not everything) from some (not everyone). They are not necessarily blinded by a cult. We have cultish practices all around us; if you want to do something different, you have to do so in the midst of all this cultishness – or at least as much of it as you can stand, at the risk of finding yourself intolerably alone. No analogies involved: if the above analogy were valid, then one would have to accept the body of Avalon having a collective soul and thereby allowing also for the ‘death’ of the ‘cell’ Bill Ryan. (Maybe it will never come to that, because he provides quality too.)

    So we have two alternatives that can no longer be ignored. One alternative is this: Bill Ryan does not consider himself a cell of the body, but its owner, its soul, its puppet-master. However, when we consider his forum to have taken on a life of its own, we move into a well-known archetype: in reverse chronological order, you have Collodi’s puppet Pinocchio that comes to life and inevitably ‘misbehaves’; Pygmalion’s statue of Galatea; then going way back to whoever ‘created’ the human race: was it the Annunaki, claiming ownership, or some benevolent entity creating us for our own sake, in precisely the way we tend to bring up our own children? This marking precisely the dividing line between healthy behaviour and the behaviour of the bloodline family elite.

    Hence there is a very clear divide right there that extends back in time to the year dot. Life itself is a ‘loose cannon’ spraying death on anyone unable to relinquish the illusion of possible control. Conversely, life showers gifts on anyone giving up that illusion. We are all at some stage in that process of learning to deal with life. And part of that process involves learning to distinguish between helps and hindrances. In theory Avalon should be a help, but for many, it would appear that Bill Ryan is proving a hindrance. That is what priests and gurus and authoritarian regimes do; they create bottlenecks. People used to pass through the Berlin Wall at Checkpoint Charlie, until they discovered they could clamber over wherever they pleased.

    Returning to the body/cell analogy, the other – collective – view of the singular undying element – as opposed to its above-described self-perception – is as a foreign body. A piece of wartime shrapnel, for example, will survive all subsequent cell renewal and you will take it to the grave. Alternatively, a cancer cell or a virus may well take you to the grave. As we know, viruses get a good press these days (they are good press): whenever someone launches their little ‘it’s all about me’ bomb, it’s called ‘going viral’. What I am advocating is something rather different; we might call it ‘going virile’. Virility means manly strength – manly as opposed to virulent or predatory. Unfortunately two roots have become entwined. Virtus (virtue), originally manly excellence, and by extension all kinds of excellence –very much including specifically feminine excellence – became mixed up with virus, derived from a Sanskrit word for the venom of a poisonous serpent. The entanglement is actually rather worse, but that is enough for now.

    Hence Jengelen’s snaky/unmanly transgender sideshow is actually very much on topic here. Even though any or many of the details may be wrong, we are truly seeing, not a desirable feminization of our macho society, but its effeminization. Bill Ryan is accused of preying on vulnerable females. I have no input as to the ‘preying’ side of the affair; what is obvious enough, however, is that he certainly hangs out a lot with vulnerable females. From his own apparent ‘all is self’ viewpoint, this would suggest that basically he is one himself. I am reminded of the intrepid hero Achilles, who didn’t want to fight the Trojan War, and went hiding among the skirts of some princesses. He didn’t want to fight because he had been told he would get killed, and that wasn’t in the script because, apart from that heel, he was supposed to be immortal. In other words, the hero of no-risk killing sprees chickened out.
    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entr...?utm_hp_ref=uk

    My entire criticism of BilL Ryan can be summed up as a deficit of ‘virile’ courage. I just read something by a French writer about it being in human nature to beget a project and also to strangle it. What I mean by virility is the courage to beget a project and nurture it to fruition. That is feminine courage and masculine courage combined. It has to be a collective effort in order to work. This is not going to happen with Bill Ryan in charge, which is why he is now in my rearview mirror, about to disappear altogether from view. I am thinking TOT might yet achieve this goal. As an aside, I prefer the spelling ThOTh, but for reasons that have nothing to do with mythology or theology; simply, Thoth as the entity or principle behind our learning to read and write, which is our medium on these boards.

    My problem with second-guessing motivations is that it is basically undecidable whether BR created a forum for good motives and then subverted it, or if it started out for perverse reasons and was positively subverted by certain contributors. None of us master the harm we can do while trying to act for the best. By the same token, none of us master the good we can do whatever our motives. For example, have I, by staying on at Avalon considerably longer than others here find acceptable, contributed to the harm caused to the vulnerable female segment of the population, or possibly done more good than harm? This is a question I cannot answer. I can only adjust my position instinctively in light of fresh data, and even then, even now, I cannot be sure this is for the best in any absolute way.

    I have laboured for several weeks to produce this post, which I still find unsatisfactory but will share anyway. However, the point being that everything is inevitably so, it is perfect in its own imperfect way as a small step in a given desired direction. That direction is towards relief of pain. To the extent that Bill Ryan is a source of considerable pain, I have a further matter to discuss in another post. This post has been on the subject of motivation in the abstract, which may resonate for some. What follows is more concrete, which may possibly be persuasive for others.

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  29. #150
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    The idea behind this second post is to tackle Bill Ryan in the open on his home turf, which I take to be providing an enabling platform for whistle-blowers. That at least is how he started out with Camelot. Since I stopped posting, the Pete Peterson business has come to bite him in the rear, but until now I haven’t had an opportunity to comment. It is shockingly not good enough to be apologizing only once found out that absolutely no due diligence was done in terms of checking credentials. It is counter-productive to be quoting the behaviour of Henry Deacon/Arthur Neumann as the perfect counter-example showing how things should be done. The honest reaction would have been, many years ago, to admit publicly, ‘If this is how it is done, then we slipped up badly with the other fellow.’ And take down the interview. And post a warning in its place.

    Admittedly, it may seem a bit late for me to be talking. What happens is that we all focus on some of the things we find important; there are other things we also find important, but in a finite world, constraints of time and space mean that we cannot address every issue all at once. Meanwhile, some of these other things become urgent until they scream for immediate attention. What is urgent right now is to provide a contradictory reading of the Bill Ryan situation. Thank you for this thread, which has been doing precisely that. Below is the second of my two cents-worth, which is as timely as I can make it. ‘October the First is Too Late’ is the title of an SF novel by the astronomer Fred Hoyle; maybe not quite: I signed up at 11.17 on 1.10.17, bang on time if you ask me. I even answered 11 to a forward-looking question about the month of November.

    Strangely, while I have little or no recall of anything Pete Peterson actually said, I do remember a few things said about his Camelot interview – notably the amount of off-the-record statements he made in addition to the on-the-record statements, the life-threatening nature of any lapses in this regard, and hence the need to submit the interview for clearance. Unsurprisingly, this approval never came, but the interview was published regardless. This whole scenario needs dismantling.

    A few preliminary remarks.
    An official spokesman is qualified to make controlled on-the-record statements revealing previously off-the-record material. Everyone else signing non-disclosure agreements has to treat info like apples and oranges in the Garden of Eden: you are welcome to make yourself sick on these oranges, but don’t you dare touch them apples!
    A genuine insider respects this boundary to the best of his or her ability; but a leak may occur inadvertently, with an apparently harmless exchange possibly generating unforeseen results when applied to a different, outside, context. For example, while waiting at the photocopy machine, John Brandenburg shows his Mars xenon isotope material to a nuclear physicist waiting behind him, who blurts out, “Someone nuked them!”, and then on realizing the scale of his tiny mistake, promptly disappears (Death on Mars, p. 109). Brandenburg receives this cross-fertilizing insight, but he still has to do his homework. The actual disclosure is innocent enough in itself, and the leak is quickly mended; it only becomes a bombshell in this new other-worldly context.
    A genuine whistleblower is someone who deliberately crosses this boundary, making controlled leaks revealing previously off-the-record material. A genuine whistleblower is, if not an intruding outsider, a former genuine insider who is not an official spokesman, but becomes a shadow spokesman with divided loyalties – their loyalty to their employer now comes second to their loyalty to society at large. Unfortunately their betrayal/illicit intrusion makes them pretty unbelievable: discredit (loss of reputation) leads to discredit (loss of credibility). The Trojan prophetess Cassandra was blessed with an ability to make correct predictions and cursed with universal incredulity.
    A total hoaxer is a parody of the above, just a shadow speaking mostly for himself. A disinfo agent (willing or involuntary) is personally neither officially official nor genuinely genuine, and the same goes for their info. They produce a different kind of shadow, like projecting a rabbit on the wall with the hands in a given position: some parts may resemble fingers, but overall the illusion prevails.
    Finally, there is the reporter, who listens to and passes on information from all the above sources, with various combinations of objectivity and commitment depending on where they lie on a spectrum ranging from the mainstream journalist to the alternative researcher. Note that objectivity and commitment are independent parameters, not opposite ends of a single continuous scale. In other words, greater commitment is not incompatible with greater objectivity, nor does a non-committal attitude guarantee such objectivity.

    However, to add a little historical depth, one might further mention the category of witness. The Greek word is martyros, and the early Christian martyrs were witnesses to spiritual values who blew the whistle on the political elite who were suppressing disclosure in these matters. In those days, the only genuine whistleblower truly was a dead whistleblower, since martyrdom combined in a single event the act of disclosure (profession of faith) with the elimination of the witness. This was verging on suicide, and as suicide is often contagious, it soon became a public health issue only resolved at the Council of Nicaea, which established a basis for dealing with it without undermining the root cause. Suicidal martyrs are a public health issue to this day, as we all know, and are generally neither heroes nor villains: just victims.

    Hence the true, deliberate whistle-blower, spouting forth and getting killed for it, would be a latter-day martyr. All very admirable, but you don’t assert the glory of life either by taking it or by losing it cheaply. We don’t want that kind of whistle-blower any more than we want jihadists: the real task is to combine witnessing with survival. There are of course people paying with their lives for speaking out: this is precisely why it is so shameful to be playing games while at the same time claiming to honour their memory. My preliminary conclusion on the Peterson situation is that in this case we have no martyrs: we have survivors bearing witness – so far so good – but their testimony is false. Bill Ryan admits that Peterson’s evidence is not credible, but fails to see how it reflects upon himself. His own act is equally fake, as is easily demonstrated (see below).

    So where does Pete Peterson fit in with the above dramatis personae now that doubt has been cast on the value of his info? Doubt must also be cast on his requirement of submitting his interview for prior approval: it was tantamount to claiming status as an official spokesman. That was never going to happen regardless of whether his bona fides are phoney. Why? Because any genuine official disclosure would pass through the normal open channels, and he likely had no access to those channels anyway. Quite simply, if an agency has anything they want us to know, they have the front office to issue the necessary propaganda. No need for undercover agents. Propaganda by definition is issued loud and clear, far too loud and clear to be entirely true. However, the falsity of the front story does not make the undercover story necessarily true: to think otherwise is the definition of gullibility.

    Hence the ‘on-the-record’ info was basically garbage. Any genuine whistle-blower info had to be the ‘off-the-record’ variety. In other words, Peterson was not blowing the whistle, he was holding out the whistle to Project Camelot, saying ‘Just blow it and you’re dead’. In other words, we don’t need to know the value of his data to know that he is a hero in the Achilles mould: when the going gets tough, he... passes the buck to Bill and Kerry, who, perfectly understandably, sit on the information. They don’t want to be martyrs, which means they don’t want to be whistle-blowers either. And that amounts to saying they are pretending, they are playing games, they are not for real, they are fakes. They are themselves withholding information that they claim to be an important part of a necessary disclosure. We don’t know how important it actually is, but it sure makes them look important.

    The question of sanctions for overstepping prescribed limits then becomes somewhat academic. Kerry Cassidy, Bill Ryan once claimed, was nearly killed for publishing off-the-record material. He actually gave that as a major reason for their split. This claim also needs reviewing in light of the fact that said off-the-record material is now likely to be as worthless as the rest. Were the circumstances of this attack ever given? Did a bullet whistle past Kerry’s ear? Did she take a sip from a cup of coffee that tasted of bitter almonds? Did the brakes on her car fail? I don’t recall anything of that nature.

    The thing about David Wilcock’s story is that he provided a garage bill as evidence that he did at least suffer some kind of mechanical failure. Regardless of what we make of this in real-life terms, it does make sense at the symbolic level. He was trying to stop doing whatever dangerous thing he was doing, but couldn’t, because his ‘braking system’ was faulty. It may be that he simply can’t drive. Going downhill, you brake very little, by relying on your engine brake, i.e. by staying in low gear. Too much ‘high octane speculation’ I reckon.
    On the other hand, about the Kerry Cassidy accident – again unless I’m mistaken – we can say precisely nothing, rien, nada. To the point that some doubt even if there was ever a split in any real sense at all.

    The question now becomes: who would kill in reprisal for disclosing as genuine, material from a hoaxer/disinfo agent? Answer: no one. The more the merrier. Let them do their worst.

    The kindest possible interpretation of what, if anything, occurred is that Cassidy, perhaps like Wilcock on a previous occasion, was prey to a panic attack. This is a very real phenomenon. No one can be criticized for succumbing to such an experience. But the reality (the panic attack) is based on an illusion (it has a cause, but no concrete cause). Again, who was responsible: Peterson’s superiors? It turns out, as far as we know, he had none. Peterson himself? Really? The only real enemy seems to have been the equivalent of Wilcock’s undermaintained brakes.

    The not-so-kind interpretation would be to repeat that they are pretending, they are playing games, they are not for real, they are fakes.

    This story has a corollary, which might lead us somewhere in practical terms.
    The corollary is this: if the alleged threat came through disclosing material from a whistle-blower as TRUE, then there is no reason for anyone to kill in reprisal for presenting material from a disinfo agent as FAKE. If Peterson is seen to be a freelance agent, then it should be possible for Camelot or Avalon to publish his off-the-record statements as disinfo with no fear of threat to life or limb, since the risk of reprisal was in all likelihood part of the disinfo. As I said above, if someone could kill, then who would that someone be? Not the usual suspects.

    It would be useful indeed to know all the many things that are supposedly too secret to tell and yet probably false. This would be no betrayal of a private conversation. It would be an instance of the alternative researcher turning non-suicidal whistleblower. It could and should happen, but I am not holding my breath, because on previous form it would require quite a U-turn. It would also be useful to know what dangerous piece of information Kerry Cassidy let slip. That information is already public anyway, and since the danger has passed, it is a reasonable question to ask what it was, or alternatively what the reason might be for not answering that question. Once again, saying someone will get killed is no longer a credible response. It might be true, but it is not credible. The whistleblower community has painted itself into a corner.

    The afore-mentioned previous form can be summarized as follows. Bill Ryan presents himself as a serious, committed reporter or alternative researcher. He has already admitted to being totally unserious (unprofessional or if you prefer, dangerously amateurish) in the basic matter of checking credentials. He is no reporter, but a fake newsman. He is not at all committed to the whistle-blower cause, since he declined to share what he had been told and is now prepared to throw Peterson under the bus at the first sign of trouble. And he is no researcher: had he done his homework to back up any of this stuff, as I explained John Brandenburg did, he would have discovered something to set off alarm bells. Maybe he did, but he never reported it; on the contrary, one may want to explore how much of his posting has been based on the lies. And finally he is no alternative researcher: whether deliberately or otherwise (I really don’t care either way), he is providing more mainstream entertainment, targetting and diverting an often vulnerable audience who are searching in deadly earnest.

    The above is no more than a submission. If Bill Ryan is man enough to respond, I am prepared to back down on anything that he is able to explain more satisfactorily. But again, I am not holding my breath. On Avalon, he let his lady friends tell me he didn’t want me out. I pointed out that his silence spoke otherwise, since he hadn’t and wouldn’t say so himself. This he confirmed by maintaining his silence; nor did he respond to my criticisms, other than to say I needed to supply more evidence – which I did – again no response.

    In a court of law, no defence is no defence: you are doing nothing to avoid being found guilty as charged. Internet forums are not a court of law. But then neither are they meant to administer justice; what they can and should be doing is warning users against abusers of any description. When a forum owner is accused of something, he can simply say (or silently express), Get out of here! If he is accused of something from a tiny forum like this one, he may think he can afford simply to ignore it. Silence is a fuzzy concept because no defence is sometimes the plea of the unconcerned innocent, although more often it is due to there being no possible adequate defence. Like an amber light that may mean stop and may mean go, silence may mean innocent and may mean guilty. It doesn’t mean undecidable. At an amber light, a decision is unavoidable one way or the other. Let’s see how Bill Ryan’s silence might be viewed as culpable.


    Since the basic accusation is that he is a fake, pretending to be someone and do something he is not, most notably by holding info from Peterson allegedly at personal risk to his life, this amounts to pretending to play Russian roulette. How does this work? Well, I guess there are various ways of making sure that your empty chamber is lined up so that you can safely pull the trigger. That would be like publishing Peterson’s harmless on-the-record stuff. Or you can simply not pull the trigger at all. That would be like withholding Peterson’s unverified off-the-record stuff. I am suggesting a third solution: that these cartridges are blanks and so the trigger can safely be pulled. The only shred of credibility left to BR would then be to fire his revolver till empty, which he absolutely cannot do. Why? Because either he would publish nothing but provably dud info, or he would fire live ammunition only identifiable as such by the physical damage to himself. He would need the courage of a true witness to take that risk; it’s not going to happen.

    This is what I mean by painting someone into a corner. He has set up an amber light that is neither red nor green: what do you do when you cannot go and you cannot stop? Float off right out of this reality into another dimension, I guess.

    How might this work? How can idle conspiracy nonsense turn lethal? Umberto Eco’s 1988 novel Foucault’s Pendulum describes how some publishers (nowadays it would be conspiracy site owners) end up very dead after making up additional material to sell in their catalogue. Hoist with their own petard is the phrase that comes to mind: they are killed by their over credulous readers who take it all seriously.

    Eco is reported as saying that Dan Brown is a character in his novel. I submit that Bill Ryan is another. All these characters have a real life equivalent. Hence David Wilcock might well be genuinely afraid for his life. This is the part of the story that maybe comes closest to being real. Being personally on the side of life every time, I suggest that, to avoid the story-book ending, there is a life-giving way out for these people. Let them just desist from their present activities, and go and do some real, serious work – I recommend heavy labour. They really have no choice, because their once over credulous readers are dwindling in numbers, wising up and walking away. It is like reverse blackmail: you just stop cashing in, go away and nothing will happen to you.
    Stop strangling your own project. Stop detracting/distracting from the main task at hand, which is to build up a community, a community of communities.

    I said that this forum was a ‘tiny’ TOT. This was not meant disparagingly. On the contrary, you guys have built a solid base on which the forum can grow. I am here to assist in that process of ‘Together we make a difference’. – Important note (abusers beware): ‘together’ does NOT parse as ‘to get her’. – Coming alphabetically after TNT, TOT could be quite explosive...

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