Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 28

Thread: The Next Charlottesville?

  1. #1
    Senior Member Fred Steeves's Avatar
    Join Date
    1st May 2016
    Location
    U.S.A.
    Posts
    2,644
    Thanks
    4,968
    Thanked 12,015 Times in 2,615 Posts

    The Next Charlottesville?

    Thankfully no, here in my own back yard and yet another big college town (University of Tennessee). If something nasty were to once again be instigated however, I was going to be right there to see how and why it happened with my own eyes and camera.

    The original protest was right in line with the current theme, speaking out against the removal of Civil War memorials of which many a battle were fought in this area. On this day there were no obnoxious Nazis and KKK on the one side, and no masked ANTIFA provocateurs on the other. Knoxville PD, Knox County Sheriff, with help from other surrounding agencies weren't taking any chances however, and were out in overwhelming force. They also did the smart thing which Charlottesville didn't do, in keeping the two parties separate.

    Side Note: As someone who scrutinizes how well (or not so much) police in general protect and defend the rights of the citizens they are assigned to, I've got nothing but love for how these guys handled matters and conducted themselves on this obviously stressful day for them. I saw a bunch of blue collar working stiffs just like me just out there doing their job, and a shitty job at that. They were polite, professional, and were even handing out cold water to thirsty people in the crowd on either side.
    The unexamined life is not worth living.

    Socrates

  2. The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to Fred Steeves For This Useful Post:

    Aianawa (28th August 2017), Aragorn (27th August 2017), Dreamtimer (27th August 2017), Dumpster Diver (27th August 2017), Elen (27th August 2017), Gio (27th August 2017), Myst (28th August 2017), The One (29th August 2017)

  3. #2
    Retired Member United States
    Join Date
    2nd December 2015
    Location
    American Southwest (currently)
    Posts
    2,602
    Thanks
    12,814
    Thanked 13,156 Times in 2,620 Posts
    Rocky Top!

  4. The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to Dumpster Diver For This Useful Post:

    Aianawa (28th August 2017), Aragorn (27th August 2017), Dreamtimer (27th August 2017), Elen (27th August 2017), Fred Steeves (28th August 2017), Gio (29th August 2017), The One (29th August 2017)

  5. #3
    Senior Member heyokah's Avatar
    Join Date
    22nd December 2014
    Location
    France
    Posts
    123
    Thanks
    1,220
    Thanked 796 Times in 121 Posts
    Faith Goldy: Charlottesville in her own words....

    Worth watching.


    Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8WPz2u1ipA


    Part of the transcript:

    "So, allow me to define myself:

    I do not bathe in tears of white guilt. That does not make me a white supremacist.

    I oppose state multiculturalism and affirmative action. That does not make me a racist.

    I reject cultural relativism. That does not make me a fascist.

    I think the false song of “social justice” has rotted the West from the inside out. But I have never called for violence against any of their adherents.

    I love my country and want its borders protected. That does not make me Alt Right.

    And for Pete’s sakes, I work for a Jewish boss and am a Christian advocate for the one-state solution for Israel— I am not a damn neo-Nazi."


    https://www.therebel.media/charlotte...n_my_own_words
    Last edited by heyokah, 27th August 2017 at 20:58. Reason: Add transcript

  6. The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to heyokah For This Useful Post:

    Aianawa (28th August 2017), Aragorn (27th August 2017), Dreamtimer (27th August 2017), Dumpster Diver (29th August 2017), Elen (28th August 2017), Fred Steeves (28th August 2017), Gio (29th August 2017), The One (29th August 2017)

  7. #4
    Retired Member United States
    Join Date
    7th April 2015
    Location
    Patapsco Valley
    Posts
    14,610
    Thanks
    70,673
    Thanked 62,025 Times in 14,520 Posts
    I definitely believe that decades of "identity culture" are reflected in the corporate world.

    Everyone will do well to remember, the millennials don't want to be labelled...at all. You're not going to get anywhere playing into that drama with them. And they are our future. (They come in a lot of colors, who (will) marry each other).

    What's going on now, imo, is the death rattle of the race 'wars'.

  8. The Following 10 Users Say Thank You to Dreamtimer For This Useful Post:

    Aianawa (28th August 2017), Aragorn (28th August 2017), Dumpster Diver (29th August 2017), Elen (28th August 2017), Fred Steeves (28th August 2017), Gio (29th August 2017), heyokah (27th August 2017), Mahakasyapa (28th August 2017), sandy (28th August 2017), The One (29th August 2017)

  9. #5
    Senior Member Fred Steeves's Avatar
    Join Date
    1st May 2016
    Location
    U.S.A.
    Posts
    2,644
    Thanks
    4,968
    Thanked 12,015 Times in 2,615 Posts
    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    What's going on now, imo, is the death rattle of the race 'wars'.
    Maybe, maybe not, if not race wars then it will surely be something similar. In the grand scheme of things I don't see basic human nature evolving at all, we're still easy pickens as ever to be pitted against each other.

    I hope to be dead wrong on that sour note, but I don't think so.
    The unexamined life is not worth living.

    Socrates

  10. The Following 10 Users Say Thank You to Fred Steeves For This Useful Post:

    Aianawa (28th August 2017), Aragorn (28th August 2017), Dreamtimer (28th August 2017), Dumpster Diver (29th August 2017), Elen (28th August 2017), Gio (29th August 2017), heyokah (28th August 2017), Mahakasyapa (28th August 2017), sandy (28th August 2017), The One (29th August 2017)

  11. #6
    (account terminated)
    Join Date
    4th May 2014
    Posts
    415
    Thanks
    268
    Thanked 1,260 Times in 397 Posts

  12. The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to turiya For This Useful Post:

    Aianawa (30th August 2017), Aragorn (29th August 2017), Chester (2nd September 2017), Dreamtimer (29th August 2017), Dumpster Diver (29th August 2017), Elen (29th August 2017), Gio (29th August 2017)

  13. #7
    (account terminated)
    Join Date
    4th May 2014
    Posts
    415
    Thanks
    268
    Thanked 1,260 Times in 397 Posts
    Then they came for Philadelphia’s Frank Rizzo statue

    Via Legal Insurrection

    The post-Charlottesville statue destruction frenzy is about power, but it may backfire in the voting booth.



    Charlottesville is being exploited to justify some of the worst aspects of the leftist culture war.

    Internet censorship by left-leaning internet oligopolies based on demonization of political opposition as “hate” and “extremist” groups like the Southern Poverty Law Center is one aspect.

    But the culture war has moved with rapid speed to statues and monuments and names, and it’s not stopping at the confederacy. Protesters are taking matters into their own hands and defacing or destroying statues, like this memorial to Christopher Columbus in Baltimore, the oldest such monument in the U.S.:


    Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFSW0id36FA

    After weeks of statue-tearing down frenzy, George Orwell’s passage from 1984 is getting quoted a lot:

    “Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right.”

    A good case on how the statue purge is escalating is the push to remove the statue of former Philadephia police commissioner Frank Rizzo.

    The Philadephia Inquirer reported on August 15, After Charlottesville, spotlight falls on Rizzo memorials:

    As many Philadelphians watched in horror as protests over the planned removal of a statue memorializing Confederate Gen. Robert E. Lee in Charlottesville, Va., turned to deadly violence, a number of them had the same thought.

    They turned their attention to Center City’s Thomas Paine Plaza and its statue of Frank L. Rizzo, the former law-and-order mayor and police commissioner known for tough, even brutal, tactics aimed at minorities including African Americans and homosexuals.

    Now, several members of City Council are calling for the Rizzo statue’s retirement. City Councilwoman Helen Gym said she intends to initiate a public process as soon as Council comes back to session in September to explore whether the statue should be relocated or decommissioned. She said it was not clear how that process would unfold….

    Meanwhile, a second likeness of Rizzo, in South Philadelphia’s Italian Market, has over the last several years become the most frequently defaced mural in the city. Jane Golden, head of Philadelphia Mural Arts, said that she intends to initiate discussions about whether the Rizzo mural ought to be removed, too.

    Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=On3k9Mk921Y

    Legally, it may not be so easy to remove the Rizzo statue, as The Inquirer further reports:

    The city owns the statue outright. As such, it has the right to relocate, remove, or destroy it. But first, it must provide written notice to the organization that provided it, in this case a citizens’ committee chaired by Frank Rizzo Jr. And unless “the city determines that the immediate destruction of the work is necessary to protect the health, safety or welfare of the public,” the city must give the provider of the statue the chance to remove it first. If the city were to destroy the statue, it would have to give the provider six months’ advance notice.

    However, the city intends to adhere to a policy it developed in 2012 on deaccessioning public art. On Tuesday, Mayor Kenney said the city Art Commission would need to conduct hearings in advance of any decision and that it would be up to the commission to vote on the fate of the statue.

    What happened next is not really surprising. Protesters are taking matters into their own hands, City teacher charged in altercation with police at Rizzo statue protest:

    A Philadelphia public school teacher has been charged in connection with an altercation with police during a protest near the controversial statue of Frank Rizzo, the city’s former mayor and police commissioner, outside the Municipal Services Building earlier this month, authorities said Saturday.

    John Edward Sheerin, 63, of the 6200 block of Hasbrook Avenue in the city’s Crescentville section, was arrested without incident Friday night and charged with terroristic threats and harassment for allegedly making verbal threats of violence to a Philadelphia police officer, police said.

    The alleged incident occurred on Aug. 16 at the 10-foot bronze statue at 15th Street and John F. Kennedy Boulevard, across from City Hall. Thousands of demonstrators surrounded the statue and called for its removal….

    The Rizzo statue was defaced last week with the message “Black Power” spray-painted in white. City workers power-washed the message from the statue, which has been egged in recent weeks. A mural of Rizzo in South Philadelphia was defaced with spray paint last weekend.

    Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0SO5rRI-rE

    The public purging of statutes, however, does not seem to reach liberal darlings like Franklin Roosevelt (who put Japanese-Americans in internment camps) or Bill Clinton (whose “superpredator” approach led to the explosion of black imprisonment).

    This isn’t about substance, it’s about power and riling up the Democratic base, as The NY Times reports, Far From Dixie, Outcry Grows Over a Wider Array of Monuments:

    “Just because Philadelphia wasn’t a part of the Confederacy doesn’t mean we get a pass,” Ms. Gym said in an interview. She is less concerned about turning off voters who support the president than in rousing members of the Democratic base, including minorities, who did not vote in November.

    “My concern is about the number of people who stayed home, who felt government doesn’t speak for them,” she said. “I’m trying to show government can be reflective in a time of anguish.”

    This all could backfire, as The Times further reported:

    Paul Begala, the Democratic strategist, said his party was “driving straight into a trap Trump has set,” because the president seeks to shift the focus away from comments he made about white supremacists to his charge that opponents are trying to “take away our history.”

    “While I understand the pain those monuments cause,” said Mr. Begala, who was an adviser to President Bill Clinton, “I just think it in some ways dishonors the debate to allow Trump to hijack it.” ….

    Andrew Young, the former Atlanta mayor and civil rights leader, has argued against calls to remove the enormous carved tableau of Confederate leaders on Stone Mountain, Ga., and other Confederate monuments, saying those disputes make more enemies than friends and distract from more substantive issues.

    “I personally feel that we made a mistake in fighting over the Confederate flag here in Georgia, or that that was an answer to the problem of the death of nine people to take down the Confederate flag in South Carolina,” he said, referring to the deadly shooting at a landmark black church in Charleston in 2015. He added, “I’m always interested in substance over symbols.”

    Polling indicates widespread support for KEEPING confederate statues, as HuffPo reports:

    Americans are generally unsupportive of attempts to remove memorials honoring Confederate leaders, new polling shows ― although the way the question is framed may make a significant difference.

    In a new HuffPost/YouGov poll, a third of Americans favor removing statues and memorials of Confederate leaders, with 49 percent opposed. Just 29 percent of Americans favor changing the names of streets, schools and buildings commemorating Confederate leaders, while half are opposed.

    Those surveyed are effectively split on whether the Confederate flag is more a symbol of Southern pride (36 percent) or racism (35 percent), with the rest unsure or saying it represents neither. But even if Americans don’t overwhelmingly recognize the flag as a symbol of racism, there’s also little widespread enthusiasm for its use. Just 34 percent of Americans say they approve of displaying the Confederate flag in public, while 47 percent disapprove.

    It seems that Trump, as usual, has read the public mood (or perhaps, helped shape it) more so than the activists, other politicians, and pundits.


    Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvtubkFQf6w

    James Robbins writes in USA Today, Trump is winning the statue war:

    Just last month, Democrats were talking about how they needed to rebrand their party around a positive message. They wanted to move beyond simple anti-Trumpism and identity politics, and craft an economic appeal to the white working-class voters who deserted them in 2016.

    Now here we are with Democrats going all in to refight the Civil War. Well done.

    A glance at the electoral map shows how foolish this is. Donald Trump triumphed in 2016 by increasing Republican margins in a swath of northern counties stretching from western Pennsylvania across the Great Lakes, netting him Pennsylvania, Ohio, Michigan, Wisconsin and the presidency. Voters there are more likely to see this issue as a radical temper tantrum than anything affecting their daily lives.

    Polling gives reason for skepticism. An NPR/PBS NewsHour/Marist poll last week found that 62% of respondents thought statues honoring leaders of the Confederacy should “remain as a historical symbol.” Only 27% of those polled wanted the statues removed, and presumably they vote Democratic anyway. Perhaps party leaders see this issue as a way to motivate the minority base that failed to energize for Hillary Clinton, but even among African Americans, a 44% plurality said let the statues stay. So it’s just bad politics.

    The statue-destruction frenzy is about power. But it may backfire in the voting booth.

    SOURCE
    Last edited by turiya, 29th August 2017 at 12:43.

  14. The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to turiya For This Useful Post:

    Aianawa (30th August 2017), Aragorn (29th August 2017), Chester (2nd September 2017), Dreamtimer (29th August 2017), Dumpster Diver (29th August 2017), Elen (29th August 2017), Gio (29th August 2017), Myst (29th August 2017)

  15. #8
    Retired Member United States
    Join Date
    7th April 2015
    Location
    Patapsco Valley
    Posts
    14,610
    Thanks
    70,673
    Thanked 62,025 Times in 14,520 Posts
    It was certainly a mistake by Trump to compare statues of Washington to those of Lee. When he did he sent the wrong message to the American people. As our leader.

    Washington led a revolution against a monarchy and was a founding father who brought the country together.

    Lee led an army of secession in a civil war.

    And the South was already using black people to get more representation via delegates even though they weren't citizens and couldn't vote.

    Black lives mattered a hell of a lot to them at that time. They were worth money AND delegates.

    That mentality of the south has now joined the republican party which hasn't been the party of Lincoln for some time now.

  16. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Dreamtimer For This Useful Post:

    Aianawa (30th August 2017), Aragorn (29th August 2017), Dumpster Diver (29th August 2017), Elen (29th August 2017), Gio (29th August 2017)

  17. #9
    Retired Member United States
    Join Date
    2nd December 2015
    Location
    American Southwest (currently)
    Posts
    2,602
    Thanks
    12,814
    Thanked 13,156 Times in 2,620 Posts
    How do you know a politician is lying? His/her lips are moving.

    Birds will be unhappy, but tear them ALL down.

    This entire civilization is a lie.

  18. The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to Dumpster Diver For This Useful Post:

    Aianawa (30th August 2017), Aragorn (29th August 2017), Dreamtimer (29th August 2017), Elen (29th August 2017), Gio (29th August 2017), JRS (30th August 2017), modwiz (30th August 2017)

  19. #10
    Senior Monk Gio's Avatar
    Join Date
    26th September 2016
    Posts
    7,330
    Thanks
    7,958
    Thanked 37,150 Times in 7,345 Posts

    Lightbulb

    Neither for good or bad ...

    his·to·ry

    the study of past events, particularly in human affairs.
    the whole series of past events connected with someone or something.
    re·mem·brance

    the action of remembering something.
    a memory or recollection.
    stat·ue

    a carved or cast figure of a person or animal, especially one that is life-size or larger.
    synonyms: sculpture, figure, effigy, statuette, figurine, idol; carving, bronze, graven image,
    model; bust, head

    Below ~
    A statue of Confederate Vice President Alexander Stephens on display in Statuary Hall in the U.S. Capitol building.



  20. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Gio For This Useful Post:

    Aianawa (30th August 2017), Aragorn (30th August 2017), Dreamtimer (29th August 2017), Elen (29th August 2017)

  21. #11
    Senior Member Fred Steeves's Avatar
    Join Date
    1st May 2016
    Location
    U.S.A.
    Posts
    2,644
    Thanks
    4,968
    Thanked 12,015 Times in 2,615 Posts
    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    It was certainly a mistake by Trump to compare statues of Washington to those of Lee. When he did he sent the wrong message to the American people. As our leader.

    Washington led a revolution against a monarchy and was a founding father who brought the country together.

    Lee led an army of secession in a civil war.
    Washington committed treason. As did Lee, as did Julius Caesar. Those who succeed history tends to hail as heroes, those who fail are lucky just not to be executed in disgrace.

    As for the politics of this (@ turiya), I see that both sides share commonalities: They both have much to answer for, and nether will be part of any possible solutions.
    The unexamined life is not worth living.

    Socrates

  22. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Fred Steeves For This Useful Post:

    Aianawa (30th August 2017), Aragorn (30th August 2017), Dreamtimer (29th August 2017), Elen (29th August 2017), Myst (29th August 2017), sandy (30th August 2017)

  23. #12
    (account terminated)
    Join Date
    4th May 2014
    Posts
    415
    Thanks
    268
    Thanked 1,260 Times in 397 Posts
    MEANWHILE….IN HOUSTON




    Via Knuckledraggin

    SOURCE

  24. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to turiya For This Useful Post:

    Aianawa (30th August 2017), Aragorn (30th August 2017), Chester (2nd September 2017), Dreamtimer (29th August 2017), modwiz (30th August 2017)

  25. #13
    Retired Member
    Join Date
    22nd September 2013
    Posts
    1,141
    Thanks
    15,854
    Thanked 7,406 Times in 1,137 Posts
    I'm not religious but do have to say AMEN Fred..............



    Quote Originally posted by Fred Steeves View Post
    Washington committed treason. As did Lee, as did Julius Caesar. Those who succeed history tends to hail as heroes, those who fail are lucky just not to be executed in disgrace.

    As for the politics of this (@ turiya), I see that both sides share commonalities: They both have much to answer for, and nether will be part of any possible solutions.

  26. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to sandy For This Useful Post:

    Aianawa (30th August 2017), Aragorn (30th August 2017), Dreamtimer (30th August 2017), Elen (30th August 2017), Fred Steeves (30th August 2017), modwiz (30th August 2017)

  27. #14
    Senior Member Fred Steeves's Avatar
    Join Date
    1st May 2016
    Location
    U.S.A.
    Posts
    2,644
    Thanks
    4,968
    Thanked 12,015 Times in 2,615 Posts
    Quote Originally posted by turiya View Post
    MEANWHILE….IN HOUSTON




    Via Knuckledraggin

    SOURCE
    Tragic events like this have a way of showing who people really are, presents us the rare opportunity to be at our very worse, or our very best. I would bet that for every person driven to loot and take advantage of people who have just lost everything, there are ten driven to risk their own lives to save others.
    Last edited by Fred Steeves, 30th August 2017 at 14:48.
    The unexamined life is not worth living.

    Socrates

  28. The Following 9 Users Say Thank You to Fred Steeves For This Useful Post:

    Aianawa (30th August 2017), Aragorn (30th August 2017), Dreamtimer (30th August 2017), Elen (31st August 2017), heyokah (31st August 2017), modwiz (30th August 2017), sandy (31st August 2017), turiya (30th August 2017), Wind (30th August 2017)

  29. #15
    Retired Member United States
    Join Date
    7th April 2015
    Location
    Patapsco Valley
    Posts
    14,610
    Thanks
    70,673
    Thanked 62,025 Times in 14,520 Posts
    I am deeply impressed at how far people will go help others. Volunteer rescuers with boats and even surfboards.

  30. The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to Dreamtimer For This Useful Post:

    Aianawa (30th August 2017), Aragorn (30th August 2017), Elen (31st August 2017), Gio (31st August 2017), heyokah (31st August 2017), modwiz (30th August 2017), sandy (31st August 2017)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •