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Thread: Karma, animals and you

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    Senior Member United States Dumpster Diver's Avatar
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    Karma, animals and you

    We have a lot of folks kvetching about how the Deep State/Reptilians/pick-your-favorite-bad-guy have us under control, do evil things to us, cover up the truth, etc, and how we have to do something to free ourselves, do disclosure, band together…

    How about your favorite pet? Does it have “free will”? Did you pay for it? That sounds like slavery to me. Can it do what it wants? No? Because Fido would pee on the rug? So you don’t have it imprisoned, right?

    Let’s talk about food. You eat burgers? How about that BBQ? Do you know how we treat our food animals?

    I won’t even get into the Pharmaceutical industry and it’s treatment of test animals. But we probably all agree that’s pretty evil. What about those cosmetics you gals use? Any animal testing there?

    I’ll throw out an idea here. Maybe the baddies are allowed to do evil sh!t to us because we do evil sh!t to the animals in our lives. And then, in the case of pets, we are convinced that we are really doing a “good thing.” We breed them, imprison them, even make them go to the vet (they sure won’t do that of their own free will) and they “like” us because they have the doggie equivalent of the Stockholm syndrome.

    So below as above: I propose that until we get our relationship to animals corrected, we will remain under the boot.

    Just sayin’
    "Holding onto anger is like drinking poison and expecting the object of your anger to die” ~ Anon
    "When you come to a fork in the road, take it." ~Yogi Berra
    "You can observe a lot by just watching." ~Yogi Berra
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    "If life gives you melons...you might be dyslexic" ~ Aixelsyd Dnarber

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  3. #2
    Super Moderator United States Dreamtimer's Avatar
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    I think you have a great point, DKD. I've thought about these things many times. We have pets, a dog and a cat. We chose to adopt/rescue instead of getting puppy/kitten or bred animal. Our current dog had at least three owners before us and she's only five. She was kind of a mess when we got her, dirty with lots of anxiety. She's much calmer now. She's very smart and clearly had not been trained in any way. In one year she's learned a bunch of commands and goes outside now (most of the time). The cat's great except he's terribly jealous of the dog.

    Every time I look in depth into animal cruelty, product testing, etc., I get kind of depressed. Rather than strident activism to try to shut down or change industry, I do what I can in my own life to be kind to all life I encounter, even spiders and stuff. I'm not vegetarian, but meat is not the center of our diet.

    Look up Temple Grandin. She's autistic and has written some books. She did some work with animals, cattle in particular, to help make the animals circumstances more humane. It's not and end, but it is a start.

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    It's quite simple, I think. Just don't be a hypocrite.

    I have a dog and he isn't enslaved by me. We give something to each others which is called care and love. Words cannot even begin to describe how much my dog has meant to me. Animals don't have free will in the sense that we do and for that reason they're not tied into karma in the same way, they're not as self conscious beings. They are not equipped with reasoning skills, but yet they are living feeling creatures. They are at another level of being which is actually more closer to the Source. That's why they are able to give love unconditionally which seems so hard for humans. We mostly only know conditional love, hence all the suffering in the world.

    As I saw the monstrosity of the meat production and consumption, I stopped eating meat and became a vegetarian. That would have been five years ago... Of course sometimes vegans like to remind that people like me would still be supporting cruelty by supporting the milk industry. Personally I'm not "there" yet, but I'm trying my best not to add more suffering to this planet, but instead decrease it.

    "Be the change that you wish to see in the world."

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    Senior Member Paloma's Avatar
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    I'm with you Dreamtimer. The days of breeding animals for status purposes might not last forever, and more and more people are rescuing unhappy pets, rather than purchasing.
    Still, the excesses of pet culture have prompted some disfunctional teenagers to practise pet torture, perhaps to get even with their church lady or meth addicted mothers.
    While I love most animals I draw the line at insects.
    Where I live insects in the house don't stand a chance, especially the big, hairy spiders.
    Any human would be grateful for such a quick and painless death.
    It's not even a question of punishment for invading where they have no right to go.
    Controlling insects is simply part of life in the tropics.

    So I can see them sitting on my kitchen counter, having their seminars about what to do about this evil human. Some of them think I might be a white hat. Wrong!
    What I would suggest to them is to go out into the wilderness and find food on their own instead of looking for it inside my house, or worse, on my body.

    Also, one more peeve, while I'm in rant mode- I may be the last human left on earth who still likes the terms I, me and mine, and only use we, us, and our in the context of invading, penetrating others who don't know their place.

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    Super Moderator United States Dreamtimer's Avatar
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    Telling people that they are 'supporting cruelty' is a foolish approach, imo. It's confrontational and judgmental. People can simply express concerns about cruelty and ask others to give it some thought. I personally don't respond well to guilt-tripping or judging. People do things in different ways and at different speeds.

    Perhaps a person might be more likely to go to nut milks because they're more healthful, rather than moving away from 'being bad' supporting the milk industry.

    You could say that Kosher slaughtering is humane. Some would still say that any consumption is bad. It comes down to values. We can raise our values as long as we're willing to talk about them and be open to change.

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    Senior Member Paloma's Avatar
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    Yep. A few decades from now when humanity has become vegan, you'll have the new generation of sensitives pushing for breatharianism, as they can feel the "pain" of trees having their fruits picked by people who dont want to eat what has fallen to the ground.
    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    Telling people that they are 'supporting cruelty' is a foolish approach, imo. It's confrontational and judgmental. People can simply express concerns about cruelty and ask others to give it some thought. I personally don't respond well to guilt-tripping or judging. People do things in different ways and at different speeds.

    Perhaps a person might be more likely to go to nut milks because they're more healthful, rather than moving away from 'being bad' supporting the milk industry.

    You could say that Kosher slaughtering is humane. Some would still say that any consumption is bad. It comes down to values. We can raise our values as long as we're willing to talk about them and be open to change.

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    I like to use "I". My husband told me about a concept in communication he calls 'owning what you say'. It's good in mediation.

    So, let's say you have a conversation and someone seems condescending. You can approach it two ways:

    "I was uncomfortable after our last conversation. I felt like you were being condescending. I don't know if you are aware of that. I was hoping we could talk about it and clear things up."
    or,

    "You made me uncomfortable in our last conversation because you were condescending. You need to be more aware, maybe you didn't mean it. You need to explain what you were doing."
    The second way is clearly more confrontational. The first way lets someone keep their dignity, and address the issue without feeling as if they're on the defense.


    I've spoken with my sister-in-law about this numerous times. But some people see what they want to see. And so she recently says to me, "Do you listen to yourself? It's just "I", "I", "I". You're all about yourself."

    I looked at her and said, "We've talked about this many times. You know why I do it. And if I was really all about myself, don't you think I'd be on Facebook all the time posting about my fabulous life and my fabulous travels and my fabulous son?"

    Foolish woman.

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    Karma, or cause and effect, or sowing and reaping is a cosmic law and no being is immune to it or free from it's 'judgement'. In reality it is linked to the law of harmony, freedom, unity and love.
    It is the means by which we are enlightened to treat others as we would like to be treated. Karma works in all of the three physical consciousness levels, Physical, emotional and mental. Karma can span 1000s of incarnations and even between kingdoms...like animal and human.

    Every human was once in the animal kingdom which they causalized out of, millions of years ago. During early human life on this planet, and this is the 4th wave of human incarnation on this planet, animals were responsible for killing huge amounts of humans.

    This fact has seen animals been abused and killed in large numbers by humans as a result of their own barbaric ways...and...unwittingly... this act has helped the animal kingdom to 'work off' it's karma, and as can be seen, already, more and more humans are turning away from this barbaric practice and will in the future completely cease as the karma of the animals is harmonised and more and more humans become conscious of higher ideals.

    Humans are still very far from their ultimate goal of moving to the essential kingdom...there are also many levels of human consciousness present on this planet, so there will be many who will not be ready yet to understand their egotistical attitudes towards other life...most humans cannot even live in peace amongst their own families yet...and brotherhood has no real meaning to most of them.

    To those who have recently become conscious of the reality of life being a step by step growth from potential consciousness to 'god' like consciousness, it would be wise to realise that we have all got huge amounts of karma to work off, and every incarnation is a chance for us to pay off the 'debt' we have accumulated over millions of years...and if you think you are done...then you have not even begun to realise just how ignorant you are of the reality of life.

    Take care

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    Quote Originally posted by Dumpster Diver View Post
    We have a lot of folks kvetching about how the Deep State/Reptilians/pick-your-favorite-bad-guy have us under control, do evil things to us, cover up the truth, etc, and how we have to do something to free ourselves, do disclosure, band together…

    How about your favorite pet? Does it have “free will”? Did you pay for it? That sounds like slavery to me. Can it do what it wants? No? Because Fido would pee on the rug? So you don’t have it imprisoned, right?

    Let’s talk about food. You eat burgers? How about that BBQ? Do you know how we treat our food animals?

    I won’t even get into the Pharmaceutical industry and it’s treatment of test animals. But we probably all agree that’s pretty evil. What about those cosmetics you gals use? Any animal testing there?

    I’ll throw out an idea here. Maybe the baddies are allowed to do evil sh!t to us because we do evil sh!t to the animals in our lives. And then, in the case of pets, we are convinced that we are really doing a “good thing.” We breed them, imprison them, even make them go to the vet (they sure won’t do that of their own free will) and they “like” us because they have the doggie equivalent of the Stockholm syndrome.

    So below as above: I propose that until we get our relationship to animals corrected, we will remain under the boot.

    Just sayin’
    Domestic animals like dogs and cats gain tremendously from human contact. Domestic animals move from large 'group souls' to smaller and smaller ones until at some point they are ready to causalise into the human kingdom.
    The higher animals which are closest to advancing into the human kingdom at this point are...dogs, cats, elephants, horses and monkeys...note that these are mammals...non mammals like birds advance into the deva kingdom.

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    Quote Originally posted by Wind View Post
    Of course sometimes vegans like to remind that people like me would still be supporting cruelty by supporting the milk industry. Personally I'm not "there" yet, but I'm trying my best not to add more suffering to this planet, but instead decrease it.
    Actually you are right there...have you considered the fact that even cows have the right to give and to be of service to others...by doing this they gain in many ways...which may take a while to explain but I am sure it might be obvious to the open mind.
    Cows are not abused during milking and can produce milk for years after a birth simply by continuing to milk them...there are even automatic milking machines which cows actually operate, or present themselves to, by their own will...or should we call that instinct to mother?

    Unfortunately, though, there are greedy people in the world who see this as a means to fill their coffers at the expense of goodwill.

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    Super Moderator United States Dreamtimer's Avatar
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    I'm not familiar with this idea of animal Karma. Very interesting. Deva Kingdom...need to look into that. Devas are nature spirits, I think.

    I have always felt certain that people don't reincarnate into animals or insects. That makes no sense to me.

    So much food for thought. And it's cruelty free.

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    Quote Originally posted by Paloma View Post
    Yep. A few decades from now when humanity has become vegan, you'll have the new generation of sensitives pushing for breatharianism, as they can feel the "pain" of trees having their fruits picked by people who dont want to eat what has fallen to the ground.
    It is the destiny of a fruit tree to produce fruit...this is it's right to live it's life in it's self chosen way... Vegans are confrontational and ignorant of the bigger picture...they are also often arrogant and needed a special word "veganism' to make them feel special. What in heaven's name does vegetarianism mean?...after all...if you eat dairy or eggs or fish or anything which does not come from plant based life, then you are not a real vegetarian....right?

    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    I'm not familiar with this idea of animal Karma. Very interesting. Deva Kingdom...need to look into that. Devas are nature spirits, I think.

    I have always felt certain that people don't reincarnate into animals or insects. That makes no sense to me.

    So much food for thought. And it's cruelty free.
    Well you're quite right...humans do not incarnate into animals or insects...it's actually not possible... and I never actually said they do... if you read my posts again you will notice I said humans have moved/progressed from animal to human...once that has taken place you cannot incarnate down..

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    Super Moderator United States Dreamtimer's Avatar
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    Choose good food, not isms. Most people can't yet live off air and sunlight. Trees want their fruit eaten because that's how they propagate. The seeds get dispersed. And often fertilized in the process.

    We farm. If we do it smartly, the land, plants, animals and us all benefit.

    I've heard about American Indians giving thanks to animals for their nourishment and honoring them by using every part. Of course it's also smart and practical to use every part and it's amazing how useful they are.

    I'm not sure we know how to do that in healthful ways.

    EDIT* I didn't think you said humans incarnate down, Finefeather. I was just expressing a personal belief. I've heard several people in my life who do believe in reincarnation who talk about being punished and reincarnating as a butterfly or something.
    Last edited by Dreamtimer, 20th July 2017 at 14:46.

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    Quote Originally posted by Finefeather View Post
    What in heaven's name does vegetarianism mean?...after all...if you eat dairy or eggs or fish or anything which does not come from plant based life, then you are not a real vegetarian....right?
    This is my pet peeve... I still consider myself a vegetarian, but obviously I am not a "real one" since I tend to consume milk products like cheese & butter, eggs and even fish. I just stopped consuming any factory produced meat as a personal choice because I saw too much and realized my own ignorance. I never could understand killing nor could I stand to witness it when it came to any animals, and these days I don't kill bugs even if I don't like them. Still I agree about many vegans, they can be very judgemental and they have told even me to become a vegan, because apparently it's not enough to be a vegetarian or a "semi-vegetarian" (pesco vegetarian). To me it's all about lessening the suffering of other beings. I may be a somewhat selfish being, but I aknowledge that fact and try to better my ways. I think killing is wrong, always. Unless you absolutely need to end some being's unecessary suffering, but that's completely another story.

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    Quote Originally posted by Wind View Post
    This is my pet peeve... I still consider myself a vegetarian, but obviously I am not a "real one" since I tend to consume milk products like cheese & butter, eggs and even fish. I just stopped consuming any factory produced meat as a personal choice because I saw too much and realized my own ignorance. I never could understand killing nor could I stand to witness it when it came to any animals, and these days I don't kill bugs even if I don't like them. Still I agree about many vegans, they can be very judgemental and they have told even me to become a vegan, because apparently it's not enough to be a vegetarian or a "semi-vegetarian" (pesco vegetarian). To me it's all about lessening the suffering of other beings. I may be a somewhat selfish being, but I aknowledge that fact and try to better my ways. I think killing is wrong, always. Unless you absolutely need to end some being's unecessary suffering, but that's completely another story.
    The reality of this 'mystery', and it's answers, lie in the knowledge of what exactly we are, and how we all fit into the bigger scheme of life.

    Once we start to gain the ability to take ourselves out of the temporary grip of the ego, which considers itself, 'all knowing'...and are able to accept just the tip of the truth of reality...and rid ourselves of the scourge of the untold amounts of fiction which we have been served up, in the name of truth...we will find the answers are simpler that we think. Right now everything is complicated because there are so many supposed 'truths'...and none of them can successfully answer the entire range of differences of opinion...but...there is a real reality, which is available to all who are ready to lay down their beliefs and start the journey of self realisation.

    As humans we 'believe' we are at the pinnacle of life and that we humans have the answers...nothing is further from the truth...it has been made known that humans, and other solar system beings, in their most advanced state of consciousness, are only capable of around 14% consciousness, of the total Cosmos and all it's higher beings...we are babies...yet we have such certainty that we know a lot.

    Today, most people's understanding of what is right and what is wrong is based on collective moralism...which is usually based on social preferences and is very far from reality...even from one family to another...and to top it all...99% of the average human's knowledge of life is based on fiction! hard for the ego to swallow ...hey?

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