BR's disclosure on CG

[Fred Steeves]

If the wet behind the ears guy who authored the following post from the summer of 2011 were around today, he would still be locked arm in arm with old buds like Sam, Mike, and many others in undying blind support of a master manipulator and cast.

Fred: Seriously are you here because you agree with some of what we say about Brother Bill or to defend him ?

Hi Northern Boy, thank you for the opportunity to clarify. I think Bill has the same human shortcomings we ALL do. A good enough investigator could go back and find lapses in my character and judgement over time that if made public would thoroughly discredit me for the rest of my life. I will have a serious question of honesty for anyone here in their 30's,40's, 50's or older who says any different about their lives.

If any of you all were my neighbor I would love to have a beer or two(or three?) with you in the evenings. But, you're caught in this feedback loop of obsessive compulsive disorder concerning Bill and Avalon. I would love nothing more than to merrily wave Nexus good luck on their separate journey of exploration and discussion, but this thing of dangling good people up for incessant public ridicule is unseemly, to put it mildly.

The good people of Nexus are better than that. That's why I'm here.

Hope that helps.


Cheers,
Fred

P.S. I consider Bill Ryan a friend, and I stand up for my friends.

http://nexusxroads.info/forum/showth...tion-of-Avalon Post #9

It takes going to some dark places in order to see through the thickly woven webs of illusion. Some may call it a spell. Call it what you will, but it is very, very real. One may see everything quite clearly, except what is right smack dab in front of them...

[Gio]

Will ...

Posted today ...

A most worthy note

I am looking at paying for our services to our server in advance.This is because and some of you will know that my son Elliott is autistic and also been diagnosed with epilepsy and hyper mobility syndrome. this means that all our extra funds will need to go towards Elliott lifestyle and helping with walking aids etc. we have gone private ( costing £220 per consultation) as the nhs has been useless when it comes to our boy, and we have become at a loss. All we want to do is help our child have the best quality of life possible.

I am asking from the bottom of my heart if anyone could donate just a small amount too help me with the upcoming costs of the forum, i would be eternally grateful. I did not want to do this but at this point in time my priority has to be Elliott. If we can pay for the costs of the forum upfront for the next few months that would ensure the forum runs smoothly whilst we go through a difficult time with our boy

Thank you for reading

Malc

[Chester]

.
It's a big deal to you to save everyone from Corey's "fibs" (and then project your messiah complex on us), but would it be so important to do if he was just goodETxSG posting his solar warden crap in bold purple on PA?

With regards to Corey, all I have done, is share testimony, evidence and opinion with regards to what I see as an ongoing and harmful set of behaviors that could negatively impact the vulnerable. That’s not “everyone,” donk, and I have stated so many times… my actions have had one group and only one group in mind - the vulnerable.

Pointing out Bill's pattern of hyping super secret insider whistleblowers is as much "eternally damning" (to use your words) him as what you (and he) is doing to Corey.

Is this your opinion? If so, you have the right to have it. The difference is that what I and he and many others are doing is not “to Corey” but for preserving any integrity there may be to the research done by researchers in the UFO (and SSP) community for the vulnerable who have a risk at being harmed by the religion that emerging cult is forming and the "counseling" they are offering.

I don’t eternally condemn you for the things you have done, donk. I have observed you making some changes for, what I see as, the positive. That’s part why I still watch some of those Chanter hangout re-runs when you are in them. I enjoy the Chanter banter and your own participation. I just wish you wouldn’t cuss so much because I feel there’s better ways to express more clearly what you think and feel. I also think more people would pay more attention to your commentary if you knock out the heavy usage of foul language – commentary I often find insightful and enjoy.

I think an extremist alt celeb basically forming a cult is definitely worth talking about and warning people of and calling out. But maybe you should think about "adjusting your risk assessment and current protocols" when it comes to your perspective of your experience with the dude who singlehandedly turned him from some schlub like the rest of to someone you had to bother to assess your "trust" in

I have already addressed this but will do so again. I assess Bill contributed to Corey’s rise at about 10%. If we slice that whole effort into timeframes such as… from the moment Corey started to participate in the PA Milab sub-forum up until March of 2015 and then looked at only two “promoters,” Bill and Christine, based all and only on what I observed and all the information I have gathered from various sources, Christine was at least equal in responsibility. But I don’t make it Christine’s fault as to what I then experienced regarding Corey Goode. In fact, when I started having my doubts about Corey (and he was far from being Bird Man Savior Dude) in late January of 2015, I expressed those doubts to Christine asking her opinion and she told me she believed Corey and believed in Corey. I learned a valuable lesson there because I chose to decide to continue believing Corey for two reasons – a.) I believed her experience trumped my doubt and b.) I wanted to remain “in the club.” Again… valuable lessons. But these mistakes were my fault, not Christine's and not Bill's. In addition, my buy-in to Corey was not Ria's fault for her role in getting Corey to TOT. It was not the TOT's administration and mod team's fault for seemingly protecting Corey in ways I felt were pretty mind blowing until (and only later) when I learned more and more about the many reasons why - one being policy and the fact Corey was able to walk a fine line between stretching those limits and not blatantly going too far.

So the bottom line is I must trust in myself because of the obvious… I am responsible for myself and I am responsible for the consequences of “the bets I make” or in other words, what assumptions I may be operating upon at any point in time. I am always subject to changing my mind and if I make decisions based on assumptions I later look back upon as “bad bets” and I acted upon those assumptions, then I will not only share my regrets but may end up owing some folks an apology.

In fact… specifically with regards to Corey Goode, if it later seems more likely that Corey has been a victim of some sort of organized mind control then I will apologize for making my bet that Corey is wittingly scamming folks. And yes it can be both but my current assumption is that if both, he is far more aware and consciously choosing to play along, than some mostly unwitting dupe manipulated by teams of seen and unseen conspirators and/or advance secret mind management tech and/or tech created and managed by “other worldly” beings.

That's why you should bother to think about it. Corey's cult didn't form in vacuum. It came from the same place Charles' following did, pretty much the exact same way. And patterns and loops are perpetuated by enabling...maybe you should bother to think about that...it seems you are very selective in what makes up your "dataset"

Your “vacuum” argument, to me… falls apart as all sorts of "Coreys" have emerged from all sorts of other venues other than PA. This comment might suggest that someone has an obsession with PA or specifically with Bill. In fact, if one is very fair and honest, there is quite a case that a quite an obsession has emerged surrounding Bill and the obsession lies in the hands of dozens and dozens. And there's one common denominator I found among them all, they are all "ex-PA" members.

“Ahhhh.” but you might say, “You appear to be in the midst of manifesting an obsession with Corey,” but you would not be taking into consideration that when I actually was obsessed about Corey, a friend (here at TOT) sort of slapped me upside the head about it and I moved on.

“Ahhhh but wait, you don’t appear to have moved on…”

The difference - then, the Corey thing consumed me emotionally. Now I happen to have all my energy bodies focused upon the matter in a far more balanced way. In fact, if Corey came clean, I would instantly become one of his biggest supporters and would do what I could to help him through the transition towards honesty and a regaining of integrity and would immediately begin to watch his back and help him and his family.

Bill BARELY admitted to finding value in Corey's story and only so he could show how quick he wants people to believe that he saw through him. He's twisted the narrative, of what I experienced anyway...maybe I'm the delusional one but can you clarify what he "admitted to DJ"? It sure as hell didn't sound to me like he took any responsibility. Is me thinking he should what you are calling "damning"?

Sadly, you don’t have the same advantage as I do because Bill and I have, what feels to me like, a mutually respectful and step by step (from his POV) more trusting relationship… and I say this based upon many very specific data points I have “in the private closet” ever since I was given a probationary chance to return as a member of PA.

And note “privacy” is something I have learned to manage better ever since October 2015 - when I made my mistake which led to a back and forth “turdstorm” between myself and Shane, Shanolytes and the strategically aligned ‘club of Bill haters’… and certainly after the lovely hangout I experienced with you and Chanter not long after.

I have created a new criteria with regards to privacy which hinges upon the level of honesty I experience from those who may have shared things privately with me which is certainly not a black or white matter for me. If you tell me something in private you may wish to remain private and then you go out and publicly lie about important matters (and I don’t mean a one or two tiny fib stories or perhaps a few embellishments or twists), then you might find that I am open to being a resource to others who have been harmed by those lies. That’s where I am at with it now. At least I am honest and transparent about it.

To me, everything is always a judgment call in the moment and sometimes that call can requires breaking confidences. An extreme example of that I found myself faced with was when a very special friend spoke to me in ways I feared this friend was going to take their own life. Before I reacted, I consulted with a mutual friend of both of ours and shared the communication. We both felt it was urgent and necessary to act. I called the police and they came and took my friend to a hospital. Later, of course, the relationship was never the same. But I have no regrets as I did what I truly felt was best. I have since consulted with all sorts of folks about what I did, evening sharing the conversation just because I was quite confused and wanted other opinions. Interestingly, every single other opinion I received told me that I absolutely did the right thing. Well every single other person except one… Bill Ryan. Funny that because if I had just asked Bill and based on the reasons he shared with me, I might still have that special friendship now that I had up until that time... as long as they didn't follow through on taking their life first.

Funny how life can go, eh?

[Dumpster Diver]

Cliques run the risk of becoming internet gang stalkers and I have direct, personal experience with this and learned a valuable lesson. And that lesson is simple. Their is only one relationship that matters and as long as I maintain that relationship, all will be well (at least from the POV of all my other relationships).

In view of this, I'm thinking the Kult should be an alt-world internet Motorcycle Gang of Stalkers with gang colors, jackets, hobnail collars and tough cycle babes like Dreamy (wearing said collar) and the other merch as well...

...has BR done this before? I'm thinking this is an entirely new direction NOBODY has taken...

[Dreamtimer]

Serialy?


(In this scene Martin Mull's character has enlisted the services of his weekend biker gang to rescue his daughter from a cult)

[Dumpster Diver]

Photo of Dreamy in Kult Gear:

[Dreamtimer]

That's frightening. Except I wouldn't have to get a real mohawk with that hat.

Would a beard be out of place?

[Lord Sidious]

So let me get this straight, you defend Sir Baconhat of Nuggetry do you Sam?

[enjoy being]

How's that American Indian quote go.
"It does not take many words to speak the truth".
People may defend who they like. The issue I take is explained in post 769. I was referring to what I read quoted of what you have been saying in description of the people here at TOT, Sam. And then you continued further to accuse everyone of having, what was it, Messiah complexes.
I just find that all a bit unacceptable and conceited. Other than that, believe what you wish, I am just putting it a bit blunter as you don't seem to be getting it when put nicely.

[Chester]

OK, I will try and knock out as much as I can from the last several posts, posted my way -

I sense almost every poster who uses this type of venue and starts to share their opinions and points of view (including myself, of course) does so, in part, and often for the most part - because they think they have something to offer that might help others. It is this that I refer to when I make the comment "most of us have, to varying degrees, a bit of a messianic complex" (again, myself included). The reader can take that literally and argue or take offense or they can see the metaphor which was the spirit about which I made the comment.

I came back to TOT because when I was here and active, I discovered a personality about this forum that... after being gone for awhile, I missed. I see much of that personality is still pretty much here. I think Malc and the staff have a lot to be proud of. In fact, because I gained much from my experiences here, I hoped to give back. Yet also, as soon as I got back, I discovered one of the same themes that had something to do with my leaving and that is the constant Bill bashing... appearing just as much an obsession with some here as I was obsessed with Corey back in early 2015.

I would be happy to drop responding (feeling compelled to defend) Bill but you have to see that it is not so easy to do when so often Bill Ryan seems to come up in so many threads on this forum that its hard to avoid.

I wanted to respond to Aragorn's well written post and I still want to do that because I believe I have a very good response, item by item.

But I also offer this to you folks here... not just Malc and staff... but members here. If me being me, which sometimes feels compelled to suggest folks strive to put themselves in another's shoes when that other was in their shoes and not so much in the now, one might see that there are pioneers who not only are the first to break new positive ground, but the first to fall into what later are seen as repetitive traps... and for those, it may be harder to make those changes we all hope to see. If also, folks can understand that someone like me who has reasons to be beholden to both BR and PA are also motivated to avoid confrontation and motivated to work with folks as they are because the membership is more valuable than what could also be seen (often too late) as egoic stands... I have striven to avoid those situations at PA. I learned from both my experiences there and here at TOT.

I will soon come back to address Aragorn's post and then I'll be happy to drop it all and strive to ignor the Bill and PA bashing (regardless of anyone else's continuing comments, even questions) and I also offer my retirement too if foks here would prefer.

[modwiz]

and I also offer my retirement too if foks here would prefer.

Thanked your post but, I disagree with this part, brother. We are a family and having an honest conversation. I have said my part and have moved on to things that matter......to me.

[donk]

OK, I will try and knock out as much as I can from the last several posts, posted my way -

I sense almost every poster who uses this type of venue and starts to share their opinions and points of view (including myself, of course) does so, in part, and often for the most part - because they think they have something to offer that might help others. It is this that I refer to when I make the comment "most of us have, to varying degrees, a bit of a messianic complex" (again, myself included). The reader can take that literally and argue or take offense or they can see the metaphor which was the spirit about which I made the comment.

.....

I will soon come back to address Aragorn's post and then I'll be happy to drop it all and strive to ignor the Bill and PA bashing (regardless of anyone else's continuing comments, even questions) and I also offer my retirement too if foks here would prefer.

You sense wrong...a lot think only of "helping themselves". And you should know that by now

i understand you're going to go through point by point debunking "Aragorn's Bill bashing"...but humor me please: besides the shots and jokes some people make (baconhat and such), what of the experiences people share do you take objection to and see as bill bashing? Where is the "evidence" being presented wrong?

No one wants your retirement ya friggin martyr

[Chester]

You mean like...

• Offering up my legal name and my private e-mail address to Simon Parkes so he could threaten me with a lawsuit?

If you have proof Bill did that, then why not confront Bill about it? Why not at least e-mail Bill and ask him why he would do something like that to you.

If, instead, you speculate that Bill did, even if based on reasonable circumstantial evidence then again… why have you not confronted Bill about that?

Also, if Simon threatened you with a lawsuit, did he have grounds regardless how he got that information. Let me make sure you understand why I ask this. Corey came to me and asked me to advance to Atticus what Corey claimed was damaging claims made by several women against Simon. This was on or about March 15, 2015. What was ironic about Corey coming to me literally “out of the blue” to forward this info to Atticus, just exactly one day before, Atticus told me “get the goods on Simon” (yes… quote unquote). But Corey insisted I keep his name out of it. Like a dummy, I took verbatim the words Corey typed to me on a Skype chat and I changed his name to anonymous and forwarded that to Atticus.

Atticus’ reaction was not what I had expected, especially in light of what Atticus asked me to do just one day before. Instead, he threatened me with all sorts of legal ramifications and said I would be extradited to the UK to face charges. I called my lawyer and my lawyer informed me that Texas law protected me regarding the sharing of a conversation as only one party must approve it (me being that one party) and especially because I told Atticus that I considered the conversation to be nothing but hearsay at that point but because he asked for “the goods” perhaps this would lead to actual “goods.”

The point of all this information is to share the fact that if I had done something legally wrong, then I would be responsible for that and might face recriminations.

I have no clue what you may have done that could be subject to recriminations but if you did do something, and someone was motivated to make have you charged, it would be a simple matter to find out who you are and without need of a community “outing.”

But all in all, if Bill did do that, and you have proof, and you haven’t (in the very best way) confronted Bill about it… well, all I can say is, I would have done so.

• Offering up Malc's name and private e-mail address to Simon Parkes, so he could threaten both Malc as an individual and The One Truth as an organization with a lawsuit?

Same applies as I stated above… why has Bill not been confronted about this?

Regarding the first two, one or both of you may have confronted Bill about it. If so, what was Bill’s response? If you have proof, how does Bill respond to that proof? If you don’t, how can you assume Bill did this? You may have a compelling circumstantial evidentiary case. How has Bill responded to that?

• Organizing a vicarious slandering campaign via his moderators against Christine Anderson, more than a year after she had left him?

Are you referring to the concerns that “PA” had determined valid that some of the PA members had come under scrutiny for potential membership abuse via providing unqualified counseling and membership mining? Where also (and was publicly stated as true yet no one but the PA mod staff and Bill can actually know is true) against Bill’s wishes, the matter of the gold was mentioned in the same thread, let me ask you this. If someone appeared to harm Malc, would not this staff have some emotional reactions to that and perhaps feel compelled act out, maybe act out like Paul did at PA by mixing in “the gold” matter?

As to the first allegation, from what I understand, the primary allegation did not come from within the PA community anyways. But the concerns for the PA community based in part on the allegation and with all the other “baggage” in the picture, it is understandable the actions taken. Would I have handled it the way it was handled? I doubt it. But I also would not ban someone from a forum for not believing Shane (as happened to me at Eyerise) and I would not deactivated someone from a forum for trying to help mediate matters behind the scenes (as appears to be the case with my membership at Earth Empaths). But both those forums have the right to do that and such is life in the forum world.

• Banning people from Project Avalon for refusing to bow down before him and/or for simply disagreeing with him? (The subject of Scientology springs to mind.)

I have witnessed many a folk’s demise at PA. Mine may one day occur as well. But I make odds low on that because a.) I have come to know the forum, many of the folks there (mostly members and a few staff and of course, via PMs and e-mails only, Bill) and it’s not hard to gain a little court awareness as to how one remains a contributing member. But for the record, even when I was still in my early stages of membership exploration where I put Simon Parkes on the spot for what later came out as a pattern of behavior others felt harmed by, I was pounced on by rank and file members, then some mods and finally, Bill expressed his serious discomfort (though no rules were broken) with the thread and where it seemed to be heading and so he closed it (note I had the sense to place it in members only from the outset).

And Bill and I exchanged a PM or two as well… but what did not happen with me, in part because I valued my membership more than “having to be right” I backed off. Ironically I left (retired) a few days later with the demodding of a few mods (one who was perhaps my closest online friend, Karelia) and because I had just met Shane. My point in recanting all these true stories is to make the point that we all have our own fate in our own hands. Some folks retire or do that sabbatical thing just so they stop themselves from that very next step where they then may fall on their own sword. Its my opinion that every member has their fate in their own hands at every forum. I see PA as no different though I see in some cases they pull the trigger pretty fast. If I had a forum with a significant number of members online and an average ten to one guests to members ratio like PA has, I might understand their desire to protect their forum the way the best see fit.

I also know how angry I felt when my status was flipped from retired to deactivated and all because of what I thought was a relatively benign post. But now that I am much more a veteran of these forums, I can see why I was perceived “no longer a friend of Avalon.” Thankfully, I was able to receive a probationary second chance and I will NOT get that second yellow card.

• Organizing a meetup with several Project Avalon members in an attempt to get them to pony up money for a shady transaction that involved Stephen "Atticus" Hodges?

I have no information about any of that. But hearing stories is one thing, experiencing it is another. I did not experience that and for that reason, this would not be a data point for me.

As an aside which is just my own testimony and an observation - I did have brief interactions with Atticus and he was perhaps the most difficult, troubled individual I ever encountered in my life.

• Willfully consenting to the sexual and financial exploitation of Project Avalon members by Simon Parkes, then pretending that he had no idea whatsoever whom these members were complaining about, and then finally, banning said members from Project Avalon?

This is another matter where I only experienced part of this story. Based on my experience and considering the overwhelmingly difficult position any forum owner (especially one the size of PA) would be faced with when someone of the then “stature” of Simon Parkes was the focus of an accusation. All I can say based on my experience is that there was one and only one “accuser.” I also was confronted with accusations made by Corey Goode (as stated above) which vastly expanded the possibilities yet still, to this day, only one single accuser actually went public. I might also add that the only claims I encountered that were made publicly (or privately to myself) by this sole accuser was stuff most kids learn how to deal with in high school or have accepted their own responsibility in co-creating.

The only other data points I have on the matter were posts I read on this forum that made claims that appeared to be stated as true facts but were by those who received the information either from Corey or this one accuser where I add one caveat. I was informed by someone I trust that there was indeed more to this story than I knew and that it involved more than one victim and that it may have included “the obviously vulnerable” but again, that was information I received not from a direct party but from a party that was relaying information second hand. This means that I could not in any way “flat out believe” the information just because I believe my source was telling me truthfully what he was told because if we operated this way… well, let me ask you this? Anyone here ever read the Arthur Miller play, The Crucible? If so, you know the point I am making.

Does any or all of the above qualify as repeatedly causing harm to people, Sam, or are the above factoids not severe enough yet?

Most of the list above is either not factoids to me or in my own explorations to find out the truth, there’s more to the story which, in most cases, has led me to more open ended concusions.

Your problem, Sam, is that you are in denial about Bill Ryan's wrongdoings

Its not denial, its different views and the taking of a different approach which has allowed avoidance of unnecessary (egoic) overreaction where the only result can be my own banning and thus exposing myself to forming a never ending resentment. I really do not wish to go that way and thus far (on my second chance) I have not.

because you are still under his spell.

Seriousely? You actually consider that I would allow the empowerment of another such as Bill or anyone else for that matter after the set of experiences you know I went through from 2014 until late 2015?

El Hombre Con Sombrero™ is an expert at manipulation, and he's always ten steps ahead of you, so he knows exactly how to play you (and others).

If this is what you wish to think about both Bill and I (in relation to each other), you have the right. My relationship with Bill doesn’t require manipulation. Bill needs or expects nothing from me but honesty, fairness and good judgment. I expect the same from Bill. We might let each other down a little here or there but folks like us usually find ways to maintain the essence of our relationship and that transcends the rest. Maybe you should just decide I am much like whatever you think Bill is. In fact, that. For me, would be just fine and in many ways a compliment.

You think Bill cares about you, but all he cares about is number one. You are merely an asset to him — a useful but expendable asset.

Bill and I are not relatives. Bill has known me as a member of PA for 5 years. I am one of hundreds if not thousands of members that have joined over that time. Bill and I have never spoken other than once I heard his voice in a live group chat on Skype and he may have actually said something to me directly like Hello, etc. The entirety of our relationship is my membership on his forum and some PMs and e-mails. In some cases these PMs and e-mails were of a more private nature. In some cases I may have asked his opinion (because I valued it and wished to hear it) and in other cases he asked mine. In some cases a kerfluffle may have arisen and I may have been helpful in sorting it. In some cases he did this for me. That though is the extent of our relationship. So I ask you? How much should Bill care about me? In fact, isn’t “care” earned? Bill earned my care by obtaining PA and then making PA what it was when I landed there in 2012 and where PA then played a major role in saving my life. How much should I care for Bill?

As for being an asset, I sure hope I am. Both PA and Bill... oh and TOT for that matter, have all been assets to me. As far as useful, I hope I can be useful as I doubt I could ever provide what I have received from PA. As far as expendability goes… what is to expend? Wouldn’t I need to play a role in creating such a scenario where I could be expended?

And if the above truth hurts your feelings, then let your consolation be that you're not the only one he's using in that manner. He does it to everyone. It's what he does, and what he's probably been doing for all of his life.

The above hasn’t applied to me… So far. I see it has not applied to many others as well… so far. And so all I ask is for you to consider, what if it never does apply to me or many others? Is it possible the old phrase, it takes two to tango might apply in some or most or maybe even all of these cases?

The bottom line for me (meaning my opinion) is that we each have our own sets of reasons to think whatever we feel we should think, to do whatever we feel we should do. Each of us are responsible (again my opinion), individually, for what we think and say and write and do. When it comes to assessing risk, it is the responsibility of the one making the assessment as to how all that works out. I reached the point where I have been burned far too many times following the vocal majority (or the loud few). So when I asses a situation (now), I emphasize personal experience way above the opinions of others – a protocol I adopted after foolishly following a clique out the side door back in 2015 all and only based on the things they told me when it turned out I experienced the most vicious form of “internet cut throat” one by one by all but one of their associates… ironically, Shane. Why is Shane not one of the throat cutters? Because Shane kept in touch and over time all matters were worked out by working through the problems by having open, honest and reasonably mature discussions... worked out to my own satisfaction and to what appears to be Shane’s but I would not dare speak for him.

I am happy now to drop all the Bill/PA talk and will do my best to avoid future engagement of the subject of Bill or PA. I know that for me to be able to do this, I will have to ignore the posts that bash Bill or PA. I believe I am up to it. We shall see.

[Aianawa]

OK, I will try and knock out as much as I can from the last several posts, posted my way -

I sense almost every poster who uses this type of venue and starts to share their opinions and points of view (including myself, of course) does so, in part, and often for the most part - because they think they have something to offer that might help others. It is this that I refer to when I make the comment "most of us have, to varying degrees, a bit of a messianic complex" (again, myself included). The reader can take that literally and argue or take offense or they can see the metaphor which was the spirit about which I made the comment.

I came back to TOT because when I was here and active, I discovered a personality about this forum that... after being gone for awhile, I missed. I see much of that personality is still pretty much here. I think Malc and the staff have a lot to be proud of. In fact, because I gained much from my experiences here, I hoped to give back. Yet also, as soon as I got back, I discovered one of the same themes that had something to do with my leaving and that is the constant Bill bashing... appearing just as much an obsession with some here as I was obsessed with Corey back in early 2015.

I would be happy to drop responding (feeling compelled to defend) Bill but you have to see that it is not so easy to do when so often Bill Ryan seems to come up in so many threads on this forum that its hard to avoid.

I wanted to respond to Aragorn's well written post and I still want to do that because I believe I have a very good response, item by item.

But I also offer this to you folks here... not just Malc and staff... but members here. If me being me, which sometimes feels compelled to suggest folks strive to put themselves in another's shoes when that other was in their shoes and not so much in the now, one might see that there are pioneers who not only are the first to break new positive ground, but the first to fall into what later are seen as repetitive traps... and for those, it may be harder to make those changes we all hope to see. If also, folks can understand that someone like me who has reasons to be beholden to both BR and PA are also motivated to avoid confrontation and motivated to work with folks as they are because the membership is more valuable than what could also be seen (often too late) as egoic stands... I have striven to avoid those situations at PA. I learned from both my experiences there and here at TOT.

I will soon come back to address Aragorn's post and then I'll be happy to drop it all and strive to ignor the Bill and PA bashing (regardless of anyone else's continuing comments, even questions) and I also offer my retirement too if foks here would prefer.

Hi Sam, Bill has left a bad taste in a few mouths here, true, most have let it go, have you seen this Totcast vid by Mod and me directly speaking on Bill

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bsTd8XVGkE

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bsTd8XVGkE

[Fred Steeves]

Sam, for the record I respect you for standing tall for what you feel is right. I had hoped to see that Turning Point, but I'm quite sure it was just a mirage anyway. Still, I was willing to give whatever you came up with a fair shake.

After all this time I'm acutely aware that one has to see the shadows on the wall in Plato's Cave for what they really are all on their own, like I and others had to, it can never be pointed out. That's just how it is. After all this time I am also acutely aware that although it's partially true, it's also a very successful and purposely planted meme (by you know who) that former members' experiences are to be discounted out of hand, simply because they are forever bitter and looking to smear. A different lens in looking at that same exact situation, would be that they were there. Who better to ask about the inside workings of a small tight knit group, people who were never there?

I reckon the only other thing left on my mind is that it's a shame this always boils down to being all about BR, when in reality he's not the problem, he's only a *symptom* of a system wide problem. Thing is if the "below" cannot even be seen, good luck with the "above". Sitting ducks most of us are...

Cheers Sam, and stop it with the retirement crap would ya?