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Thread: BR's disclosure on CG

  1. #766
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    I was glad he did it, for the observation of the dynamics, was a blessing of sorts, but not that he intended it that way.
    Wool over they eyes for many for the privilege of the few who could learn from it.
    Looks like someone's putting a dollar each way, never mind.

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  3. #767
    Senior Member donk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Aianawa View Post
    Be lovely in hindsight to change resentment to recentment, and in foresight connedtroled into what is, and surprise into thankyou like nugget into nugert.
    If I'm discerning any of the above correctly (and I have no idea whether I am), you are saying it's better to pull out the positives than dwell on the negatives? Maybe it seems like Sam and target and such are, excusing these "negatives" folks like me point out?

    My foresight isn't so optimistic, we aren't gonna change repeating the same mistakes, excusing the deception as the narrative gets steered by those who spin the best yarn and twist "mistakes" (or worse) into positives

    I don't know how much money's ever been made in this realm and I suspect it's it's a pittance. But the abuse/enabling cycle goes on and on as we focus on the lunatic extremist rather than honestly look at the circumstances that gave him the spotlight and attention
    What is the purpose of your presence?

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  5. #768
    Senior Member United States Chester's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by donk View Post
    If I'm discerning any of the above correctly (and I have no idea whether I am), you are saying it's better to pull out the positives than dwell on the negatives? Maybe it seems like Sam and target and such are, excusing these "negatives" folks like me point out?
    My observation is that if I refused to have anything to do with anyone for anything I have concluded that they have done in their past that I also deemed was wrong, then I would be a loner. In addition, if I decided that someone else's opinion should be relied on more than my own personal experience (the lesson I learned by following the minor, partial mod/member revolt of early PA in early 2015) then I would be failing what I believe to be the very most important thing I can do (and IMO should do) which is to take my own personal responsibility seriously.

    In fact, because I did start to learn this lesson in mid 2015, I am still a member of this very forum (and I came very close to losing that membership - ask Malc and Aragorn).

    From my own personal experience with Bill Ryan, though I have noted words and actions by Bill which to, in some cases, bothered me, I could say the exact same thing about just about every other experience I have had with others I engaged with online (and in the "real world") - especially when I get involved at the levels I became involved with PA, Bill and so, so, so many others and several other forums. I also have no doubt that Bill and others have been bothered by, annoyed by or disagreed with many of my own words (written and spoken) and perhaps some of my actions as well.

    What appears to be the beefs from some, and they certainly have the right to make their own mind up, results in what appears to be a flat out permanent condemnation of Bill Ryan. Again, everyone has that right to draw that definitive, final conclusion. In my case, I have not. And for two reasons - a.) I have never experienced a reason to do so based on my own, direct experience with Bill (and PA) and b.) because I have been burned way too often by following the vocally dominant crowd, especially those who have demonstrated plenty of data points where a direct experiencer of their existence, words and actions (such as myself) could easily do the same with them too - some of these vocally dominant)... I found that the line for me to so cross in reaching eternal condemnation/damnation of another resides at a subjectively decided point (again suggesting personal responsibility is central to what one decides) and because I am ultimately responsible for making that decision, I admit my responsibility for doing so and I allow others the exact same right. But where that line is for me (and looks like for Aianawa) is further out than for others and Aianawa's appears further out than mine... and he has that right. And perhaps he is the better man than any of us if we wish to rate virtue.

    What I do not any longer do is impose on others what I think they should decide and conclude for themselves in this regard. I simply believe that what they do decide and conclude is their responsibility.

    I also have adopted a protocol that I hope raises my level of personal integrity which is... if I am going to point my finger at (and I absolutely still do... but I do so at folks who are engaged currently in the behaviors I am pointing at such as Borey and his Chicken Heads (like Dead Heads... fans of Borey and no, I do not get credit for this one either), is to make sure I walk the walk and that I have done so for long enough that perhaps my "change" in how I act has indeed become part of "who I am" in the now and thus has a raised level of probability in manifesting in my future - something good for the rest of us. I do the pointing to satisfy, to some degree, my own messianic complex which I have observed is shared (again to varying degrees) by about everyone else who posts on these forums.
    Last edited by Chester, 15th July 2017 at 22:04.
    All the above is all and only my opinion. It may contain some sharing of components of my current operating strategy and some foundational components of my current world view - all subject to change and not meant to be true for anyone else regardless of how I phrase it.

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  7. #769
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    I do not wish to become involved in describing the actions and opinions of others, to others, in such a way that it abbreviates what those others are saying and doing into a generalized and potentially misleading package. Speaking for others can lead to stealing or influencing a third party's right to decide for themselves.
    This can be a hard thing to avoid in some ways, it comes from mindfulness of who we are representing, and how we are doing that. It can slip out in language and choices of words can slam doors which one has no right to interact with.
    Well the choice is there to do so, there is always the ability, with the 'Right' being a grey area. I am sure all here stand by their views and the different nuances of those views, to a degree they would not appreciate another speaking for them in a coarse and basic and misleading manner.
    More so for myself it is disheartening in knowing that that act is akin to hacking the ropes of a bridge in the decision for others that they not wish to cross.

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  9. #770
    Senior Member United States Chester's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by donk View Post
    Sam Hunter says on PA:



    ...so, Sam, you don't think Bill had anything to do with the "trust" you mention people around here losing toward the end of CG's time here?

    People would have paid attention despite Bill's posting up the video and initially vouching for him (or at least "keeping an open mind")?
    Why would I bother to think one way or another about what you are asking?

    I raised my assessment of risk as to how much (at that time) I should or should not "trust" Corey based on my many personal experiences that told me I needed to better guard that "trust." After he left TOT I have seen additional data that has led me to determine I should still guard my "trust." I make odds high that Corey is telling fibs... in the now... still telling fibs. I assess Corey to be intelligent enough to recognize that this can harm folks. If I am correct on my assessment then that suggests to me he has the ability to set aside his conscience. I am sure if this is the case, he has justifications for so doing. Such is life. As to whether Bill had anything to do with it - a.) he did not just because I observed that fact, but b.) he admitted such in his recent interview with the Dark Journalist.

    Guess what? So did I. I also played a role (although quite minor) in the creation of Goode, the Space Chicken Savior Dude. So have a lot of others. I have my own regrets for the role I played and have made changes (I hope and believe) that are lasting such that I don't do that again. Note I also did this to a greater degree with Shane the Ruiner. In fact, because of my enthusiasm for "the Ruiner" story, I ended up making quite a few mistakes that hurt others, Shane and myself.

    Guess what? I regret those too. I also hope and believe I made the changes I needed so that this doesn't happen again by my doing. From what I have heard (and read) from Bill, he says he's made mistakes and believes he's learned lessons from those mistakes. Only the future will tell if that's true. I certainly would be betting big money that Bill is more cautious now when it comes to folks either showing up on PA with fantastical stories or long time members suddenly "coming out" with their own fantastical stories ala Goode.
    Last edited by Chester, 15th July 2017 at 22:24.
    All the above is all and only my opinion. It may contain some sharing of components of my current operating strategy and some foundational components of my current world view - all subject to change and not meant to be true for anyone else regardless of how I phrase it.

    It's just a ride

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGD...vgBsCHmlC13jOg

    https://www.facebook.com/samhunter57

    http://merlynagain.blogspot.com/

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  11. #771
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    I don't see very many people at all with a messianic complex on here. I certainly wouldn't use that as an excuse to have one.

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  13. #772
    Senior Member Fred Steeves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Sam Hunter View Post
    From what I have heard (and read) from Bill, he says he's made mistakes and believes he's learned lessons from those mistakes.
    Hiya Sam, long time man.

    Anyone who has ever dealt with an addiction (of either their own or someone close), knows full well, and can point directly to without hesitation, The Turning Point. Now I've been paying pretty darn close attention these last few years, been doing my homework as well, and have yet to see any such turning point concerning BR's long and continuing history of "mistakes".

    Doesn't mean it hasn't happened though, maybe you could do me (and possibly others) a big favor and point to a good example or two? I'm always prepared to disagree with myself at any time, it just takes a good reason.


    Quote Originally posted by Sam Hunter View Post
    I certainly would be betting big money that Bill is more cautious now when it comes to folks either showing up on PA with fantastical stories or long time members suddenly "coming out" with their own fantastical stories ala Goode.
    Time will tell as it always does, and I sure wouldn't bet the farm on that one my friend. As the Air Boss used to admonish daily on the carrier flight deck: "Keep that head on a swivel".
    Last edited by Fred Steeves, 16th July 2017 at 01:29.

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    Quote Originally posted by Sam Hunter View Post
    My observation is that if I refused to have anything to do with anyone for anything I have concluded that they have done in their past that I also deemed was wrong, then I would be a loner. In addition, if I decided that someone else's opinion should be relied on more than my own personal experience (the lesson I learned by following the minor, partial mod/member revolt of early PA in early 2015) then I would be failing what I believe to be the very most important thing I can do (and IMO should do) which is to take my own personal responsibility seriously.

    In fact, because I did start to learn this lesson in mid 2015, I am still a member of this very forum (and I came very close to losing that membership - ask Malc and Aragorn).

    From my own personal experience with Bill Ryan, though I have noted words and actions by Bill which to, in some cases, bothered me, I could say the exact same thing about just about every other experience I have had with others I engaged with online (and in the "real world") - especially when I get involved at the levels I became involved with PA, Bill and so, so, so many others and several other forums. I also have no doubt that Bill and others have been bothered by, annoyed by or disagreed with many of my own words (written and spoken) and perhaps some of my actions as well.

    What appears to be the beefs from some, and they certainly have the right to make their own mind up, results in what appears to be a flat out permanent condemnation of Bill Ryan. Again, everyone has that right to draw that definitive, final conclusion. In my case, I have not. And for two reasons - a.) I have never experienced a reason to do so based on my own, direct experience with Bill (and PA) and b.) because I have been burned way too often by following the vocally dominant crowd, especially those who have demonstrated plenty of data points where a direct experiencer of their existence, words and actions (such as myself) could easily do the same with them too - some of these vocally dominant)... I found that the line for me to so cross in reaching eternal condemnation/damnation of another resides at a subjectively decided point (again suggesting personal responsibility is central to what one decides) and because I am ultimately responsible for making that decision, I admit my responsibility for doing so and I allow others the exact same right. But where that line is for me (and looks like for Aianawa) is further out than for others and Aianawa's appears further out than mine... and he has that right. And perhaps he is the better man than any of us if we wish to rate virtue.

    What I do not any longer do is impose on others what I think they should decide and conclude for themselves in this regard. I simply believe that what they do decide and conclude is their responsibility.

    I also have adopted a protocol that I hope raises my level of personal integrity which is... if I am going to point my finger at (and I absolutely still do... but I do so at folks who are engaged currently in the behaviors I am pointing at such as Borey and his Chicken Heads (like Dead Heads... fans of Borey and no, I do not get credit for this one either), is to make sure I walk the walk and that I have done so for long enough that perhaps my "change" in how I act has indeed become part of "who I am" in the now and thus has a raised level of probability in manifesting in my future - something good for the rest of us. I do the pointing to satisfy, to some degree, my own messianic complex which I have observed is shared (again to varying degrees) by about everyone else who posts on these forums.
    What Messianic Complex?

    BTW, EVERYONE Listen up! I am starting the Kdark Knight Kdumpy Kult (K^4) right here at TOT. I'll be selling Lego Dumpy Batmen at outrageous prices along with assorted merch such as t-shirts, coffee/tea mugs, mouse pads, etc. Get your credit cards out.
    Plenty for all, no pushing or shoving.

    OK, now to get Aragorn to set up the shopping cart...

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    Senior Member Aianawa's Avatar
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    Whats for sale Dumpy, got mugs

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  19. #775
    Senior Member donk's Avatar
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    Why would I bother to think one way or another about what you are asking?

    I raised my assessment of risk as to how much (at that time) I should or should not "trust" Corey based on my many personal experiences that told me I needed to better guard that "trust." After he left TOT I have seen additional data that has led me to determine I should still guard my "trust." I make odds high that Corey is telling fibs... in the now... still telling fibs. I assess Corey to be intelligent enough to recognize that this can harm folks. If I am correct on my assessment then that suggests to me he has the ability to set aside his conscience. I am sure if this is the case, he has justifications for so doing. Such is life. As to whether Bill had anything to do with it - a.) he did not just because I observed that fact, but b.) he admitted such in his recent interview with the Dark Journalist.
    .

    It's a big deal to you to save everyone from Corey's "fibs" (and then project your messiah complex on us), but would it be so important to do if he was just goodETxSG posting his solar warden crap in bold purple on PA?

    Pointing out Bill's pattern of hyping super secret insider whistleblowers is as much "eternally damning" (to use your words) him as what you (and he) is doing to Corey.

    I think an extremist alt celeb basically forming a cult is definitely worth talking about and warning people of and calling out. But maybe you should think about "adjusting your risk assessment and current protocols" when it comes to your perspective of your experience with the dude who singlehandedly turned him from some schlub like the rest of to someone you had to bother to assess your "trust" in

    That's why you should bother to think about it. Corey's cult didn't form in vacuum. It came from the same place Charles' following did, pretty much the exact same way. And patterns and loops are perpetuated by enabling...maybe you should bother to think about that...it seems you are very selective in what makes up your "dataset"

    Bill BARELY admitted to finding value in Corey's story and only so he could show how quick he wants people to believe that he saw through him. He's twisted the narrative, of what I experienced anyway...maybe I'm the delusional one but can you clarify what he "admitted to DJ"? It sure as hell didn't sound to me like he took any responsibility. Is me thinking he should what you are calling "damning"?
    Last edited by donk, 16th July 2017 at 12:14.
    What is the purpose of your presence?

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    Senior Member Lord Sidious's Avatar
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    Hold on, messiah complex?
    You will till I tell Odin, you guys are all cactus...............
    Ní siocháin go saoirse

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    Senior Member United States Chester's Avatar
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    Simple difference, donk.

    Corey is doing what he is doing on a scale that has never been experienced in this community ever.

    He is doing it in the now. This behavior began in late 2014 and has only escalated and increasingly so in the now.

    And his behavior (words and actions) appear to me to be harmful to the vulnerable and this is why I felt compelled to express my disgust and to provide testimony and evidence based on my experiences with Corey Goode. It is my opinion that if he stopped with the ongoing charade multiple benefits would manifest.

    Note that everything I share with regards to evidence and testimony is nothing but the truth. I also share my opinion and I have striven each and every time I opine to make sure the reader understands that that is precisely what I am doing.

    If Bill came anywhere near to behaviors I find harmful to others in the now, I would be sharing my opinion with him directly and privately first and then... if those behaviors continued, I would withdraw my support. If those behaviors still continued, I probably would come to the opinion that Bill was harming the vulnerable - again, he would have to demonstrate that too me, show that is a pattern and, most importantly, be doing so in the now.

    Note also that when I encounter testimony of others where I have good reason to believe that their testimony is not truthful, then I begin to question many other statements, testimonies from that same source. If I have access to them, I would first ask them about it because I always strive to give the benefit of the doubt. Yet sometimes, when someone behaves in ways they feel they need to... "protect themselves" by actions such as bannings from their forums when no rules have been broken (as happened with me at EyeBlind because I stopped believing Shane and had become known as "a betrayer") or by "blocking them" on Skype instead of honoring the history of a relationship which had always been open and honest... it makes it harder to ask the other, "Hey... remember when "this and this" and this happened where I was there when it happened and yet, now, I am hearing you say "that and that and that" happened... and so, help me reconcile the two?" But that can't happen when formerly existing communication capacities have been blocked.

    In addition (something I had to learn the hard way) is that when communities form on the internet, as they grow, individuals reach out to others and form direct relationships... but in time, what also happens is that connections are made between these otherwise separate relationships where what sometimes forms is what is known as "cliques."

    Cliques run the risk of becoming internet gang stalkers and I have direct, personal experience with this and learned a valuable lesson. And that lesson is simple. Their is only one relationship that matters and as long as I maintain that relationship, all will be well (at least from the POV of all my other relationships).

    That relationship is my relationship with the truth.

    I may not know everything I could know. I may also have experiences which, using all my capabilities, still have me operating under a false assumption but I would far rather rely on my own experience and my own gathering of facts than to ever, ever, ever again allow myself to stupidly follow a clique or ever, ever, ever again allow myself to be intimidated by a clique or ever, ever, ever again put any relationship above the truth.
    Last edited by Chester, 17th July 2017 at 02:21.
    All the above is all and only my opinion. It may contain some sharing of components of my current operating strategy and some foundational components of my current world view - all subject to change and not meant to be true for anyone else regardless of how I phrase it.

    It's just a ride

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGD...vgBsCHmlC13jOg

    https://www.facebook.com/samhunter57

    http://merlynagain.blogspot.com/

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    Senior Monk Gio's Avatar
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    Question to Sam Hunter ...

    Member's here (even guest) are quite aware of the misgivings of Corey Goode and (for that matter) Bill Ryan.
    Shouldn't you (Sam) be really sharing this Blah blah blogging where as you call the 'vulnerable'
    seem to mostly dwell - non other than Project/Me (Aka) Project Avalon ...

    It's all getting bit old dude ...

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    Senior Monk Gio's Avatar
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    Lightbulb

    Posted today ...

    A most worthy note


    Quote Originally posted by The One View Post
    I am looking at paying for our services to our server in advance.This is because and some of you will know that my son Elliott is autistic and also been diagnosed with epilepsy and hyper mobility syndrome. this means that all our extra funds will need to go towards Elliott lifestyle and helping with walking aids etc. we have gone private ( costing £220 per consultation) as the nhs has been useless when it comes to our boy, and we have become at a loss. All we want to do is help our child have the best quality of life possible.

    I am asking from the bottom of my heart if anyone could donate just a small amount too help me with the upcoming costs of the forum, i would be eternally grateful. I did not want to do this but at this point in time my priority has to be Elliott. If we can pay for the costs of the forum upfront for the next few months that would ensure the forum runs smoothly whilst we go through a difficult time with our boy

    Thank you for reading

    Malc

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    Administrator Aragorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Sam Hunter View Post
    If Bill came anywhere near to behaviors I find harmful to others in the now, I would be sharing my opinion with him directly and privately first and then... if those behaviors continued, I would withdraw my support. If those behaviors still continued, I probably would come to the opinion that Bill was harming the vulnerable - again, he would have to demonstrate that too me, show that is a pattern and, most importantly, be doing so in the now.
    You mean like...

    • Offering up my legal name and my private e-mail address to Simon Parkes so he could threaten me with a lawsuit?

    • Offering up Malc's name and private e-mail address to Simon Parkes, so he could threaten both Malc as an individual and The One Truth as an organization with a lawsuit?

    • Organizing a vicarious slandering campaign via his moderators against Christine Anderson, more than a year after she had left him?

    • Banning people from Project Avalon for refusing to bow down before him and/or for simply disagreeing with him? (The subject of Scientology springs to mind.)

    • Organizing a meetup with several Project Avalon members in an attempt to get them to pony up money for a shady transaction that involved Stephen "Atticus" Hodges?

    • Willfully consenting to the sexual and financial exploitation of Project Avalon members by Simon Parkes, then pretending that he had no idea whatsoever whom these members were complaining about, and then finally, banning said members from Project Avalon?

    Does any or all of the above qualify as repeatedly causing harm to people, Sam, or are the above factoids not severe enough yet?

    Your problem, Sam, is that you are in denial about Bill Ryan's wrongdoings, because you are still under his spell. El Hombre Con Sombrero™ is an expert at manipulation, and he's always ten steps ahead of you, so he knows exactly how to play you (and others). You think Bill cares about you, but all he cares about is number one. You are merely an asset to him — a useful but expendable asset.

    And if the above truth hurts your feelings, then let your consolation be that you're not the only one he's using in that manner. He does it to everyone. It's what he does, and what he's probably been doing for all of his life.
    = DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR =

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