Meaningful lessons without pain?

[donk]

I've been exploring the idea of whether it's "human" to be able to take to heart, truly honestly learn deeply meaningful lessons without trauma.

The universe has drawn me to reading Herbert's Dune series, viewing the new version of Crichton's Westworld, whilst breaking out of a relationship with a woman who was addicted to holdin on the abusive patterns she lived a victim of her whole life.

Substitute teaching for the roughest school in Wilmington DE (a girl was violently killed there this year) also has me questioning my theory....it seems love may not be enough, maybe I was missing something in the story of the torture of Jesus?

Shouldn't we be able to learn truth without pain?

[Aragorn]

I've been exploring the idea of whether it's "human" to be able to take to heart, truly honestly learn deeply meaningful lessons without trauma.

The universe has drawn me to reading Herbert's Dune series, viewing the new version of Crichton's Westworld, whilst breaking out of a relationship with a woman who was addicted to holdin on the abusive patterns she lived a victim of her whole life.

Substitute teaching for the roughest school in Wilmington DE (a girl was violently killed there this year) also has me questioning my theory....it seems love may not be enough, maybe I was missing something in the story of the torture of Jesus?

Shouldn't we be able to learn truth without pain?

That's a very tough question to answer, Brother. People often ask about the meaning of life. And the answer you'll usually get is that the purpose of life is to learn. But that in itself is only a half-truth. So I am going to give you my version of the story here, to accept, reject or ponder as you see fit.

People generally misunderstand or misconstrue what "consciousness" is, and what "the soul" is. So let's start with consciousness first. There is only one consciousness. Yes, you read me right: there is only one consciousness, and this is the consciousness of the Prime Creator, the conscious part of what we call Source. Source itself is infinite information, but given that this information is meaningless without that there is an interpreter, you could also say that Source is infinite potential.

So how does one give meaning to anything at all, if one is the only thing in existence? By coming up with a story, just like you would write a novel. You create characters, each of which has a subjective experience of the potential. Some potentials won't manifest in a particular individual's experience, and other potentials will. However, in order to further colorize the experience, each individual has a soul, and the soul could best be considered as "your programming". It is formed out of a number of the primary polarities in combination with experiences and "lessons learned".

The best way of thinking of the distinction between soul and consciousness is to think of the soul as the definition of who you are, and of consciousness as what you are. But pouring that into an easier-to-understand metaphor, you could say that the individual souls are refrigerators, TV sets, computers, stereos, washing machines, and so on, and that consciousness is the electricity which flows through them. Without that electricity, those refrigerators, TV sets, washing machines et al would merely be boat anchors. They only do what they were designed to do — and thus: "become what they are" — when there is electricity flowing through them. But those electrons don't stay within a single apparatus. It is a stream that flows through all of them when they are switched on. And coming back to our own manifestation, the mind — or life, if you will — is what is created by the union of consciousness and soul.

Now, one of the essential polarities in Creation which helps people — and by consequence, the Creator — to understand and give meaning to everything, is evil. See, consciousness attempts to understand, which could best be described as "the creation of order out of chaos". Evil is the exact opposite. It is the chaos which doesn't want to be subdued by order. It is dissonance and pain. Very unpleasant. But, it is an essential component of Creation, because it is required for giving meaning to it all. There cannot be order without chaos. There cannot be light without darkness.

The above all said, it is possible to learn something without having to suffer? Yes, in a way it is, but then one would have to be exposed to somebody else's suffering, and one would at the same time also need to possess enough empathy to recognize what this suffering means. So the bottom line is that somebody somewhere must always be subjected to suffering in order for suffering to be recognized as something undesirable.

Alas, by allowing himself to be dumbed down and his memory and attention span reduced to those of a shrimp, modern man invites more suffering onto the whole of humanity. Because short attention spans and poor memory — which often, not always but often, stem from being too self-absorbed to pay attention — mean that humanity will share less of its experiences at suffering with the next generation, or even with others within the same generation. Empathy is equally suppressed, and thus one person's suffering doesn't teach another person about suffering anymore — roughly speaking, of course — and so the forces of evil continue to do harm as part of the creation of order, i.e. the recognition of suffering. In the end, those very forces of evil, even though they are the antithesis to Creation, to order and to love, are just as much part of Creation as the rest of us, and thus they serve their purpose.

The bottom line is that in order for humanity to overcome all of the suffering and truly usher in a golden era of love and light, mankind would have to develop a strong sense of empathy and would have to teach the next generations about suffering without that these next generations would have to go through the suffering themselves. Only then can the order/light/love overcome the chaos/darkness/apathy — yes, the polar opposite of love is not hatred but apathy/indifference.

Now where does this take us on account of "loosh"? Is evil merely one of the two sides of the coin of Creation, or is there more? Well, I can only theorize about that at this point in time, and I suspect that the dark side of the Creator has manifested as individual entities — demons, archons, djinn or whatever you want to call them — who would be sustaining themselves at the cost of the well-being of other beings. And perhaps they're not even sustaining themselves as much as they would be entertaining themselves. After all, I would find it bizarre if non-physical beings were in need of actual sustenance, given that they don't have a body that can die.

I don't have all the answers either, my friend. But at this point in time, this is what I have surmised to roughly be how it all works.

As they say, your mileage may vary, and it is either way a very interesting subject, worthy of exchanging ideas over, so thank you for this topic.

[TargeT]

Shouldn't we be able to learn truth without pain?

The physical sensation?

or are you saying "shouldn't we be able to learn truth with out effort" ?

I think trauma is highly important.

Reality is fractal, Our immune systems are only strong after periods of stress, Our muscle/bones only "grow" and become "better" through stress (often accompanied by pain); even plants share this phenomenon.

I think stress and "pain" are focuses, they bring clarity and sharpness to situations & that can easily lead to significant growth and improvement.

This focus is where the real lessons are learned, if you observe your own consciousness and actions during an average day how often are you fully present? most people aren't fully present very often at all, but stress changes that; forces presence.

but of course, everything in moderation; I'm sure there's a reason we mostly run on autopilot, though it escapes me for now.

[Fred Steeves]

Shouldn't we be able to learn truth without pain?

Not in my experience anyway.

P.S. Sorry to hear that relationship ultimately didn't work out, I guess you finally did what you knew you had to do. Best for everyone concerned.

[ZShawn]

perpetual motion devices have shown us that despite their ability to exploit subtle differences into motion, they tend to run down..... the motion seeks an equilibrium which is the balance, or the end of motion.....stasis.... but the realm of form is the world of action, where events will occur that disrupt the dissipation of energy through entropy....which challenges the idea of an open or flat universe model that expands until it can no longer do so...
the art of storytelling reveals that the adventure ceases when the villain has been vanquished, and that is typically, "the end" of the story where they live happily ever after, etc.... but this is the never-ending story where a new villain is automatically generated by the construct to keep the motion going..... without an opposing force, what then would be the point of this realm, the duality?
function influences form and form follows function and the adaptation is the real marvel..... how did the protagonist solve the dilemma? this is what makes every story engaging and interesting..... since we all tend to lose interest in the story if the outcome can be seen quickly and the best stories are the ones which defy our ability to suss the plot turns out easily....

[Aragorn]

[...]

the art of storytelling reveals that the adventure ceases when the villain has been vanquished, and that is typically, "the end" of the story where they live happily ever after, etc.... but this is the never-ending story where a new villain is automatically generated by the construct to keep the motion going..... without an opposing force, what then would be the point of this realm, the duality?

function influences form and form follows function and the adaptation is the real marvel..... how did the protagonist solve the dilemma? this is what makes every story engaging and interesting..... since we all tend to lose interest in the story if the outcome can be seen quickly and the best stories are the ones which defy our ability to suss the plot turns out easily....

But at the same time, when the plot thickens to the extent of a murkiness in which any hope of a positive resolution is no longer visible, then one also tends to lose interest.

Perhaps "losing interest" is the wrong choice of words. For some, the suffering simply becomes too intense to still bear it any longer. There is only so much a person can take.

Just to name an example, my dad suffered horribly for 23 years, but he never let his head down. He was one of the most courageous people I can think of. And yet he died a horrible death — the pinnacle of all his suffering, really — two years after he lost the love of his life, my mother. When she died, he lost the will to live. I watched him wither away in great agony. I will spare you the details of how exactly he died.

[ZShawn]

empathy as you mentioned above seems to be the path of heart, worth pursuing, which will cut through this game of suffering....
we tend to look at things from our own unique window and often cannot see clearly due to the collection of experience which piles up on it, restricting the view, so while one person rises at dawn with joy in their being, another will rise with other feelings, yet the day is the same, just the perspective differs.....
empathy connects as does love, which is an interesting word.... most think of as being sentimental attachment to _________(fill in the blank with whatever)...but subjectively i have seen it as the state of being in communion/connection with everything and everyone, with the all, where there is no essential difference between any'thing' as we all share the same core currency and thus the one-ness, like your example with appliances (good analogy by the way )

[Dreamtimer]

Personally, pain has had mixed results. Too much doesn't strengthen, it can debilitate.

I watched my son take my words to heart and put them into practice and come back to me to tell me that it worked. He was most certainly inspired by love. I asked him when he was in high school who was his hero. He responded, "Mom, you were always my hero." That was one of the best things anyone ever said to me in my life.

Love is incredibly powerful.

Pain cuts through a lot of stuff. It gets the attention. It can force change. I don't believe it's the only force that can do that.

My husband has stated straight out that my love for him has stopped him from imploding. He's not so good with stress and life dishes it out mercilessly.

[ZShawn]

the construct is perfectly imperfect it seems

[donk]

The physical sensation?

or are you saying "shouldn't we be able to learn truth with out effort" ?

I think trauma is highly important.

Reality is fractal, Our immune systems are only strong after periods of stress, Our muscle/bones only "grow" and become "better" through stress (often accompanied by pain); even plants share this phenomenon.

I think stress and "pain" are focuses, they bring clarity and sharpness to situations & that can easily lead to significant growth and improvement.

This focus is where the real lessons are learned, if you observe your own consciousness and actions during an average day how often are you fully present? most people aren't fully present very often at all, but stress changes that; forces presence.

but of course, everything in moderation; I'm sure there's a reason we mostly run on autopilot, though it escapes me for now.

As soon as I posted I remembered that other kind of learning, the repetition of an activity like muscle memory or how we teach kids in most schools. I think it's inferior to the lessons learned through trauma (better word where I used pain) in that they can be mindless, not taken to heart...or often even thought about deeply enough for it to be used "correctly" (productively? Positively for the learner?)

Words are tricky, thinking about your hitting on "pain" had me realize in most contexts I like to equate "truth" with "love", I really believe love is truth, swapping them in that statement is an interesting musing

I guess I've learned a lot directly from love, though it seems we take those lessons for granted?

Or perhaps they integrate into who we are, so I'm not actually asking the right question...perhaps I'm asking "is trauma required for meaningful change"?

[Dreamtimer]

I really like that idea of swapping truth for love. It's a good perspective tweaker.

[Aianawa]

When one is in pain is sometimes when they are open to change, new belief, new programmes And letting go of the cause of pain.

Shock can be a transformer/transmuter with little pain to oneself had even though ( say 9 11 ) outside of oneself had the most pain.

Great joy creates pain avoided or not needed imo also, through having forgiven, let pain or repeating action leading to pain, go to not repeat.

It is said by some that once a humans consciousness reaches a certain stage, the karma game completes, imo then pain is watched.

Great food for thought, thankyou Donk.

[ZShawn]

perhaps painful could be swapped out for difficult/challenging...... i know that the things that i have learned that have proved the most indelible were through events that were challenging..which wasn't always traumatic/painful but were sometimes a lot of fun..... since fun events can also be very difficult, but are a blast to work through....like a really challenging hobby or technical skill one is seeking to master....say learning to weld, or work with stone.... which were a couple examples that i can relate to since i have learned a lot and even had some life changing epiphanies while doing over the decades....some of these things were extremely difficult, but were also quite enjoyable despite the efforts and the struggles.....

[Aianawa]

There are things that used to cause me much pain, within and without as such that now do not simply because of a differing understanding of why, how, who and reaction not needed, still the pain I work with today was already there yesterday.

[donk]

Well I think a lot of us hold on to our trauma, and allow it to guide/define how we are. And it seems that only another trauma can "shock" us out of it.

Even long "loving" intelligent counseling will bing a patient down the path of facing their pain, which is a traumatic experience in itself.

I wondered could we "love" (rather than "shock") the "negative" attachment from another...you don't see that in practice, it doesn't seem to be effective.

When I first took (REAL) medicine, I found I needed at the very least some discomfort in order to believe it is "working". The most recent time i took it, grandmother showed me that discomfort didn't need to be physical pain...but it seemed being taken out of the comfort zone WAS required for real healing.

I fear our CULTure and values are intentionally twisted to program us to believe that nothing in life in life is more important than avoiding pain (at ALL costs).

I feel that real teachers and healers would make the world a better place by sharing how to emotionally maturely face our challenges as problems to be solved rather than battles to be fought (and won), and we'd be taught from near birth how to deal with pain/trauma/discomfort in a healthy way.