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Thread: Thinking that I think

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    Senior Member donk's Avatar
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    Thinking that I think

    In another thread recently, I used a popularized quote to support what I believe to be the underlying problem with a specific situation we all can relate to which I strongly believe underlies a broader problem might relate to all humans' communication with each other.

    The quote most often attributed to Thomas Edison sounds to me like:

    A tiny percentage of people think "rightly" (to borrow from Heinlein's "Stanger in a Strange Land"), a slightly higher percentage believe they're thinking rightly, and everyone else chooses to believe the dogmas they were taught and became attached to.

    The specific example I was speaking to, was what I considered a text book example that nearly of all us here have some experience with of the social dynamic that is created when we aren't honest about the reality that the quote demonstrates.

    The thing is, among the "5% that think", they nearly (if not) all actually "think they think" as well. And the tendency among people that think they are right is to think that other perspectives are wrong. I'm pretty sure that when you unpack this thought, that is what you are left with.

    It slips into the sloppiness in which we use language, and the emotional attachment we have to our understanding...of our understanding.

    The word believe is "officially" defined as:

    "to have confidence in the truth, the existence, or reliability of something, although without absolute proof that one is right in doing so" (Dictionary.com)

    "To accept something as true, genuine, or real" (Merriam-Webster)

    "Accept that (something) is true, especially without proof" (Oxford)

    I see this term being demonized, especially in the "alternative" community. The first M-W definition is actually "to have a firm religious faith", and between that and Oxford's dictionary's second half...they describe accurately the popular usage, at least in America.

    The problem I found was interpretation of the word and definitions are not only extremely unpopular, but trigger defensive from "believers" that KNOW that you cannot apply the term to FACTS...which I found is defined thusly:

    "A thing that is indisputably the case" (google)

    "Something that truly exists or happens; something that has actual existence" (M-W)

    "A thing that is known or proved to be true" (Oxford)

    I contend that what this community is an "alternative" to, is the beliefs and facts of of our current civilizations' most common dogmas...which is defined:

    "A principle or set of principles laid down by an authority as incontrovertibly true" (google)

    "Something held as an established opinion; especially a definite authoritative tenet" (M-W)

    "A fixed belief or set of beliefs that people are expected to accept without any doubts" (Cambridge Academic Content Dict.)

    Soooo...I contend that the 'alternative' emerges as a challenge to the dogmas one was raised with about reality. And the problem that causes so much conflict within the 'alternative' is the fact that too much of the more vocal or leaders or "established authorities" within the community "think they think", while believing thee feedback from the more masses within the alt community that they are true "thinkers" of the "5% category"

    Which some of them very well may be. The responsibility of this problem does not fall solely on them, perhaps more of it actually belongs to believers that support those ideas and/or people (authorities) that reinforce the ideas that resonate with them

    I believe this whole community grew out of people disbelieving of the popular mainstream authority given dogma. And it has stagnated as very few of the people involved are able to get past their slightly more "open-minded" ideas...they get past COMMON dogma only to get stuck on a more expansive one.

    People think that because they see through the obvious common lies, that the "truths" that get to can't possibly incorrect. I know, I know...YOU would never do this...but it sure seems like a lot of the issues we run into come from people doing this...and not seeing it.

    Especially for self proclaimed atheists or "scientific" thinkers... as long as "belief" and "dogma" are associated only with RELIGIOUS ideas in your mind, you have difficulty in seeing any inflexibility in your own (beliefs and dogmas that you live by).

    That's what really chaps my ass about all of this, it seemed blatantly obvious to me with relatively little work to see that the most empowering universal wisdom that comes out in these places are to "know thyself", which I believe is the only thing you can REALLY know, and maybe not even that completely

    ....But it is so frustrating when anyone who spouts that sh!t goes on to demonstrate how much they KNOW of anything else. I really think we need to be more honest with ourselves...and work on recognizing when we start feeling that it's more important to tell people (and get defensive of) WHAT we know than actually think about WHY we know it

    This place is SOOO interesting and fun when you first dive, consuming all of the diverse ideas you never knew. More often than not, one finds the "anomalous" idea they have expressed, and get validation they are looking for. These are valuable things, helpful to many. But like GI JOE said to me every Saturday morning growing up: "knowing is half the battle"...the other half is KNOWING WHY YOU KNOW IT.
    What is the purpose of your presence?

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    Senior Member Canada Herbert's Avatar
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    Thanks for a thought provoking post worth replying to Donk. I was just becoming resigned to the fact that Facebook (which I do not belong to) has deadened most forums.

    Speaking entirely from my own inner knowing which can change from one moment to the next, depending upon my open and changing inner perspective, I would say that most people have recognized that time is speeding up, and with it change is upon us. Certainly facts and faith are not the same thing and in this world of increasingly rapid change (I know this because 20 years ago I could do 4 times as many jobs on the farm in a day) I have found that belief systems are so fleeting, that it is wise to hold them lightly.

    In a world where science was the one thing I could depend upon to follow a logical progression of common sense thought, it is now becoming increasingly unsettling to realise that scientists are in denial of our changing universe. So, for instance, they observed in the past that Black Holes release nothing once energy in all its forms enters the Event Horizon. However, in very recent years they have been observing that Black Holes are "messy eaters" and that they are releasing radiation which are presumably the building blocks of future suns, etc. So Instead of acknowledging that this change in observations means Black Holes are closing down (a change that has happened in our lifetime), they astonishingly disavow the change and discard the previous observations. In other words they can't even contemplate the possibility that Black Holes no longer exis and this change happened in our lifetime.

    The only explanation is that scientists are not oriented to observed facts about a changing universe, they are instead stuck in faith based theories. Thee is lots of evidence pointing to this sad observation.

    Another thing that is changing for all of us is the reliance on the Information Age. Technology has imposed upon us the need for change in our inner selves. We are finally realising that we cannot believe most of the information that is being presented to us from outside of ourselves. This makes it imperative that we finally recognize our own innate nature. Given all the lies and propaganda pushing us toward a technocratic humanity, we need to institute for ourselves a new intuitive age of, discernment. The need has never been greater for us to look within for the answers.

    We are being told that humans cannot match the speed of thought that A.I. computers can offer us. We are redundant, is what they are really saying. We are useless eaters no longer even fit to be slaves.

    So the technocracy is making science the new religion. Instead of having unshaking faith in ourselves, in our soul potential, we are having technocracy shoved down our throats as the answer to all our problems. How does the speed of a robotic mind compare to intuition, that gut feeling including human telepathy? Hell, how does it even compare to animal or plant telepathy?

    If you choose Artificial Intelligence to house your soul good luck! I choose becoming Wholly Human again.

    That is my purpose, and that is why I post on this forum.

    Here are some links to what I have been discussing with friends.

    Elon Musk: Humans must merge with machines or become irrelevant in AI age
    http://www.cnbc.com/2017/02/13/elon-...ce-robots.html

    Patrick Wood on the Trilateral Commission and Technocracy See 13:10 on the spying on the populace https://www.davidicke.com/article/39...on-technocracy

    https://geopolitics.co/2017/01/12/go...-patrick-wood/

    Technocracy Rising Patrick Wood



    Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxSTmcwP4QI


    Trilateral Commission – minions of the Velon Control over the human race; not about protecting the environment or managing a resource based economy. There is a gross ignorance of technocracy and its 1934 origin developing into the formation of trilateral commission in the 1950’s.

    24/7 surveillance. Smart grid controls. Carbon rationing. Today we talk to “Technocracy Rising” author Patrick Wood about the hidden history of technocracy, the dark plan for a resource-based economy that is being pushed by the Trilateral Commission, the UN, and other globalist institutions in order to bring about a completely managed, controlled and regulated society.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.cb8dbe6aef2b
    Science as the new religion

    Speaking of Brave New World, Huxley is a more complex character than I imagined. Reading the Wiki entry, I was surprised to learn he worked as a Hollywood screen writer.

    In a recent interview with James Tracy of Memory Hole Blog, Jan Irvin of Gnostic Media made a good case from his extensive research that Huxley was a key figure in MK Ultra, in particular in the selection of Leary for the CIA’s program to create the psychedelic culture, as was so fascinatingly explored in the documentary The Net; The Unabomber, LSD, and The Internet, which coincidentally dives right into the overall theme of technology worship (and thus Technocracy), the vision that drove young genius mathematician Kaczynski to desperate acts after having been an (unwitting) participant in an MK Ultra experiment. Comes around full circle, it seems.
    Here is an eyebrow raising quote from a letter Huxley wrote to Orwell/Blair (dated October 21, 1949) to congratulate him on his book 1984:

    “Within the next generation I believe that the world’s leaders will discover that infant conditioning and narco-hypnosis are more efficient, as instruments of government, than clubs and prisons, and that the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience.”

    Let's not forget Facebook where people give their private information away willingly and happily, with no concern for who might be recording it for future enforcement of technocracy]

    Jay Irvin’s paper Spies in Academic Clothing:
    http://www.gnosticmedia.com/SpiesinA...othing_MKULTRA
    Last edited by Herbert, 24th February 2017 at 16:55.
    Learning our TRUE HISTORY is therapy for the human race.

    It is each person's responsibility to clear their body of emotional blocks (using the Giveaway, etc.) so that the process of higher self integration into your physical body can begin. Beliefs are fleeting during this period of change. It is wise to hold them lightly. Mind, Body and Spirit are becoming ONE

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    Senior Member Fred Steeves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by donk View Post
    I believe this whole community grew out of people disbelieving of the popular mainstream authority given dogma. And it has stagnated as very few of the people involved are able to get past their slightly more "open-minded" ideas...they get past COMMON dogma only to get stuck on a more expansive one.
    Bingo!

    And here's another perspective on the same phenomena, I see it all over the place:

    The metaphor is this is a tour bus journey up a mountain, with everyone's overriding goal being to get to the top. The bus stops every so often at the ever increasingly spectacular scenic overlooks, but the idea of course is to take in the sights for a bit, then get back on board to continue on the journey.

    What tends to happen is that along the way though, one or two seem to straggle off and set up camp at each overlook. By the time the tour is nearing the peak, the bus is nearly empty because most have found a nice majestic place to fix their gaze on the coming sunset, mesmerized into taking their current elevated view as the final destination.

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    Member on Sabbatical Morocco modwiz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Herbert View Post
    Thanks for a thought provoking post worth replying to Donk. I was just becoming resigned to the fact that Facebook (which I do not belong to) has deadened most forums.
    Facebook is popular because of mob rule. Being a moron with little to actually say is common on FB. In a forum you may get queried or even taken to task for letting one's mouth trade places with one's asshole. FB is a safe place (space) and facts do not matter much. Much better for snowflakes and other detail deficient people to share opinions with little grounding in an objective reality. Forums come with the "danger" of someone thoughtfully reading one's posts. I believe this is why so few members post. Either trepidation at being challenged for thoughts expressed or, of being challenged to express a thought.
    Last edited by modwiz, 14th February 2017 at 01:00.
    "To learn who rules over you simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize" -- Voltaire

    "Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people."-- Eleanor Roosevelt

    "Misery loves company. Wisdom has to look for it." -- Anonymous

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    Senior Member Amanda's Avatar
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    Am commenting - so as to be attached to this thread. Love love love intellectually stimulating discourse. Will return to this thread but wanted to make a comment about the aspect of 'thinking' and something that has interested me for most of my life.

    Going to bed with - Sleeping With = People actually 'think' that they are referring to intimate relations. I have often pondered the fact that people do not 'think' about the words that come from their mouth. I am not judging anyone, it is a long time observation. I have entered into the phrase when younger but as I entered the awakened state and really started to 'think' properly - I learned to question everything. I learned to look at myself and my actions and thoughts and how I interact with others. I will sometimes engage in a conversation where the term, sleeping with, is used and suggest that perhaps it is the sex that is actually the crux of the situation. The reactions of people are priceless.

    If people would learn to speak exactly what they mean then perhaps society would/could evolve - even a little. The other common term is 'guys' when there can be more females present than males. I prefer to utilise my thinking and intellect and cognition and all the other wonderful applications that are available to me via my brain.

    One last comment on 'thinking' is about the prevalence of swearing on the worldwideweb and within society. I am at the age where I can see a distinct rise in the very public use of swear words. I have had people try to tell me swear words offer a healthy manner of expression. People try to convince me that they are 'thinking' and using their vocabulary skills. In actual fact the use of swear words can be linked to the psychopathic and narcissistic behaviours of people who do not possess that wonderful human trait titled: Empathy.

    Also suggested is that people who utilise swear words and particularly those who utilise them often - are actually demonstrating their lack of vocabulary. The 'thinking' processes that we can all access have quite simply not been developed/exercised/supported/nurtured.

    Love the analogy of the bus tour Fred Steeves. The comment about facebook is very apt. I am a faceache oops facebook person but it is for a very specific reason that I utilise the account. I too can see that it has somewhat polarised social media and our ability to communicate freely.

    Much Peace and Much Respect - Amanda :spinning:

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    Administrator Aragorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Fred Steeves View Post
    Bingo!

    And here's another perspective on the same phenomena, I see it all over the place:

    The metaphor is this is a tour bus journey up a mountain, with everyone's overriding goal being to get to the top. The bus stops every so often at the ever increasingly spectacular scenic overlooks, but the idea of course is to take in the sights for a bit, then get back on board to continue on the journey.

    What tends to happen is that along the way though, one or two seem to straggle off and set up camp at each overlook. By the time the tour is nearing the peak, the bus is nearly empty because most have found a nice majestic place to fix their gaze on the coming sunset, mesmerized into taking their current elevated view as the final destination.
    Yes, but in staying with that analogy, I personally see another dichotomy arising there. Some may for instance feel that they don't need or want to go to the top, and that they rather savor the view at that outpost they've chosen. I count myself among such people. I have no intention of unraveling all the mysteries of existence, and even less of becoming a godlike being. I acknowledge — and am content with acknowledging — that I don't know everything. I also don't want to know everything — and especially not if that knowledge comes at a price I'm not willing to pay. I'm not sure whether you understand what I'm trying to say, but just bear with me.

    On the other hand — and I think that this is what both you and donk are alluding to — there are indeed those who've stepped off the bus to enjoy the view, and who think that they have already reached the top. And that situation, is of course problematic.

    Even though I am very much aware of how the Islamic terrorism seen all over the western world today is mostly fabricated, the very fact that so many people adhere to Islam — with varying degrees of fanaticism — seems both ludicrous and dangerous to me. The blind adherence to Islam today — and Islam itself is now between 1'500 and 1'600 years old — is very reminiscent of the blind adherence to Catholicism when it itself was only 1'500 to 1'600 years old. Likewise, the violence of (certain) Muslims against "infidels" is reminiscent of the violence of the Catholic Church against "heretics" and "witches" during the Middle Ages.

    On the other hand, the vast majority of the western population of this planet has traded in its adherence to the Abrahamic religions for allegiance to the Mammon, and this religion too, is enforced by way of violence — of a different kind, but violence it is, nevertheless.

    I don't want to pin myself down on any statistics, but for the sake of argument, I'm willing to adopt the numbers that donk posted higher up. And then that, to me, only underscores the untruth of this purported "awakening" — or "ascension", whatever one wishes to interpret from that — which is supposedly going around in the world today.

    Honestly, I do think that the so-called alternative community is badly deluding itself in that regard. The Powers That Be™ are The Powers That Be™, not The Powers That Were™. Not even by a long shot. The vast majority of humanity is still vast asleep, and quite happily so. They don't want to wake up, because they feel perfectly comfortable living the make-believe life they are living today.

    I've already had some very heated discussions with people regarding the abolition of a scarcity-based economy, and their reactions were all very emotional. They cannot fathom a world in which there is no demand and offer, no buying and selling, and they genuinely believe that there wouldn't be any progress at all in any domain if there were no financial-economic system. We've even seen this topic being debated here on the forum during the last month or so that bsbray was still with us, and it was very clear that he loudly rejected the abolition of capitalism — this notwithstanding the fact that he himself had held a very different opinion earlier on, but I strongly suspect that it was the pro-Trump propaganda in the prelude to the elections which had managed to brainwash him. He had clearly become polarized.

    Anyway, the bottom line is that, whereas I myself am concerned, I don't see anything changing anytime soon at the socio-economical level. The number of people who really are awake — even if only at this socio-economical level — is way too small to make a difference. And yes, there are protests everywhere against certain social injustices, but not against all social injustice, and some protests are themselves ridden with prejudice, narrow-mindedness, reactionary self-interest and, indeed, an agenda.

    Take the refugee crisis here in Europe for instance. Yes, it was definitely a mistake to pretend that we were ready to accept such great numbers of people from a culturally very different background into our western societies with open arms — and especially if you consider that those people's cultural background was not willing to respect our own cultural background — but those who protested against the arrival of those refugees did not do this out of the wisdom that a clash of cultures would ensue. No, they did it because of the same thing that drives the anti-Hispanic protests that Donald Trump builds upon: "Those immigrants are coming to steal our jobs", "They're all terrorists/criminals", and "We don't want their kind here."

    So those are protests as well, and they're not exactly driven by enlightenment or a strive for the peaceful coexistence of all peoples of the world. In other words, just because people are protesting against something doesn't make them enlightened, or even wise. One also has to keep in mind that protests are an emotional reaction, and that the more audacious the establishment pushes its plans upon the people, the more protests will arise. It's all about action and reaction. The bigger the wave you start, the bigger the returning wave will be. There's no awakening, enlightenment or ascension involved with any of that.

    Of course, some of us are awake, and some of us are enlightened — although I don't know of anyone who has ascended just yet. But our numbers are few. All we can do is try and wake up more people, and get them to see the insanity of the system we're currently living in. And then maybe, just maybe, given enough time and enough effort, we might reach critical mass — a tipping point. But we're not there yet, and it would be presumptuous to think that we are. I don't even expect to see any major changes (for the better) occurring in the way we run society during my lifetime. But yes, maybe in 50 to 60 years, or maybe in 100 years, humanity may finally come to its senses.

    To be honest, it matters very little to myself as a person anymore. What matters more to me — silly as it may sound — is that I myself am being the change I wish to see in the world. Because I cannot control the whole of society, but at the very least, I can control my own actions. Or at least, to some extent, but I don't want to get into the debate of "free will versus predestination" right now — that debate, too, is pertinent, but less important with regard to the topic of this thread.

    So, are we fighting a lost cause? No, I don't believe so. But we're not quite there yet — not even by a long shot — and we have to be willing to acknowledge that. And that's just us, humanity. For all we know, The Powers That Be™ could still be starting World War III and dump us all back into the Stone Age. Because that too is still possible. The corporate globalist elite that was running the United States of Acronyms has just been taken over by the Mafia and its own expansionist, xenophobic and ultra-conservative agendas.

    The way I see it, a great evil has been supplanted by another great evil. Perfectly in line with previous distractions that relied upon polarization, and thus keeping everyone in the same evolutionary boat as we already were in earlier — a barge that's still firmly anchored down and that isn't going to go anywhere anytime soon. There's no telling what's going to come down the pike in the next four to eight years, but from the smell of what's cooking in the kitchen, I don't think I'll be offering up my plate to the chef. <insert wry grin here>


    Just my two Eurocents, for whatever they're worth...
    = DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR =

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    Senior Member sandy's Avatar
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    Wow!! Great opinions and insight that I resonate with.....IMO that is what we are........energy that resonates with the frequencies we have awakened.

    Thus Know thy self really is about connecting with the frequencies within that can not be found through THOUGHT versus FEEL.

    In stating that, I also then say that for most "feeling" is not COMFORTABLE unless it is thought enhancing and if it is thought enhancing then the COMFORT comes in the distraction of thinking.........and the loop CYCLES AND CYCLES!!

    Humanity will evolve quickly when the value of resonating comes from the heart literally versus the brain.....that's my frequency and I'm sticking to it.

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    yeah it reminds me of a time i had growing up..
    sitting at the dinner table with my family.
    having the famous table talk as we usually did..
    out of the blue it came from nowhere and...
    i just said, "SHIT"..
    to this day do not know why i said that with both
    my mother and my dad sitting right there..

    of course it wasnt taken easy and by bottom knew it!
    over the years i have also had this happen out of the blue.
    saying something that i had no clue as to why.
    i do like to think about things before i stick my foot in.
    doesnt always work though.

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    Senior Member Fred Steeves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Aragorn View Post
    Yes , but in staying with that analogy, I personally see another dichotomy arising there. Some may for instance feel that they don't need or want to go to the top, and that they rather savor the view at that outpost they've chosen. I count myself among such people. I have no intention of unraveling all the mysteries of existence, and even less of becoming a godlike being. I acknowledge — and am content with acknowledging — that I don't know everything. I also don't want to know everything — and especially not if that knowledge comes at a price I'm not willing to pay.
    I see the dichotomy you're getting at, and those examples are perfectly reasonable on the parallel rail.

    Bad on me for not properly fleshing out the purpose of the bus ride, and Sandy touched on it. The journey up the mountain, is simply the journey inward towards self knowledge. Some call it The Great Work, the most arduous, most humbling journey of them all.

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    Super Moderator United States Dreamtimer's Avatar
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    The Great Work. I like that. I can't even recall where I first heard know thyself. Probably my mother. She was really good at teaching (with words) good values. Unfortunately she wasn't so good at actually applying them regularly. But at least she passed them on.

    Know thyself is definitely a life's work.

    I have frustration when I'm speaking with someone and they start in with phrases like, "Do you listen to yourself?" Yeah, and I know exactly why I said what I said and they've missed the boat and are trying to make it about some quality of mine that I'm unaware of. Most of the time it's just projection and they don't even know they're doing it.

    Patience seems to be a huge factor in this. Patience with oneself and others.

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    Senior Member donk's Avatar
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    I think one of the biggest steps we need to make in our collective emotional maturity growth is in stopping the tendancy to project motives on to others, especially toward groups of people....which means being more careful with how we say things (thanks Amanda) and breaking that huge communication loop (thanks Sandy)

    Every immigrant has their own story, every Muslim their own level of belief and experience, every Facebook user their own reasons and mindfulness-level of using...every foul mouth motherf*cker their own unique life that lead up to them choosing them sh!tty words

    We cling to the cycle of using generalizations to show what we KNOW about particular issues (like I am in this sentence). I try to be mindful of when I do it, as specific as possible, and qualify it with any personal experience I can...and most importantly leave open the possibility of being wrong.
    Last edited by donk, 14th February 2017 at 13:48.
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    Senior Member Amanda's Avatar
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    How fabulous is this thread?! Just staying with the conversation so I can follow in 'real time' whatever that is (very cheeky grin) ....

    Of course what I am trying to state clearly is that, as this thread continues I want to be able to log in and keep up as the conversation/discussion/discourse/philosophical debate as it were unfolds.

    Much Peace & Much Respect - Amanda
    Last edited by Amanda, 15th February 2017 at 05:51. Reason: Left a word out - slack for an English Teacher

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    Quote Originally posted by Amanda View Post
    How fabulous is this thread?! Just staying with the conversation so I can follow in 'real time' whatever that is (very cheeky grin) ....

    Of course what I am trying to state clearly is that, as this thread continues I want to be able to log in and keep up as the conversation/discussion/discourse/philosophical debate as it unfolds.

    Much Peace & Much Respect - Amanda
    Just for the record, Amanda, you can subscribe to this thread, and then the forum engine will send you e-mail notifications on thread updates, with a link that takes you to the first unread post of the thread. Alternatively, you can also have the forum engine notify you of thread updates via the Notifications menu at the top right of the page when you sign on again.

    Subscribing to a thread is easy. Just scroll up to the top of the page, and then click the Thread Tools menu, as shown here-below...







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    Senior Member Amanda's Avatar
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    Aragorn - picturing me raising my hand - Thank You Sir. (Wry knowing grin.)

    Much Peace & Much Respect - Amanda

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    Quote Originally posted by Amanda View Post
    Aragorn - picturing me raising my hand - Thank You Sir. (Wry knowing grin.)
    Hmm... I was only trying to help. Among other things, that's my job.
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