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Thread: The Avalon Files

  1. #61
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    Well my comment on bill Ryan ....







    ...... end comment

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  3. #62
    Senior Member Fred Steeves's Avatar
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    With all this Machiavellian talk, thought the name's sake biography by Niccolo Machiavelli might be useful to some. It comes with my highest recommendation:
    http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/28862.The_Prince

    For those without time or inclination to read a whole book, the cliff notes:
    https://www.cliffsnotes.com/literatu...e/book-summary
    Last edited by Fred Steeves, 18th January 2017 at 23:35.

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  5. #63
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    .
    Last edited by Myst, 16th March 2017 at 12:55.

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  7. #64
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    Last edited by Myst, 16th March 2017 at 12:55.

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  9. #65
    Senior Member Fred Steeves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Myst View Post
    Having personally encountered several false gurus, as I think of them, who either intentionally or unconsciously cloaked their darkness with their light, and having eventually healed from the sting of being deceived and manipulated, I now appreciate what they taught me by reflecting to me my own true condition.

    We are all a blend of dark and light, and balancing polarity is the path to oneness. To the extent we hold judgement against one pole or the other, we reject part of oneness. Having accepted and allowed all, we are free to choose according to our true nature and are no longer bound to that which we resist.
    Well now, this would be the higher aspect of The Avalon Files you are bringing up. Shadow work, dark nights of the soul, finding one's way through Chapel Perilous. Invaluable experience, honing in on that sweet spot right smack in the middle of the two opposing poles.

    Don Juan thought the warrior extremely fortunate to encounter a petty tyrant:

    We know that nothing can temper the spirit of a warrior as much as the challenge of dealing with impossible people in positions of power. Only under those conditions can warriors acquire the sobriety and serenity to stand the pressure of the unknowable.

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  11. #66
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    Quote Originally posted by Myst View Post
    Having personally encountered several false gurus, as I think of them, who either intentionally or unconsciously cloaked their darkness with their light, and having eventually healed from the sting of being deceived and manipulated, I now appreciate what they taught me by reflecting to me my own true condition.

    We are all a blend of dark and light, and balancing polarity is the path to oneness. To the extent we hold judgement against one pole or the other, we reject part of oneness. Having accepted and allowed all, we are free to choose according to our true nature and are no longer bound to that which we resist.

    Like Machiavelli, Gracián (mentioned above in post #63), and Don Juan, the author Ivan Throne accepts and embraces both poles of reality and chooses that which suits his nature. His view of the dark triad illuminates the polarities involved and appears in graphical form in his book

    According to Ivan Throne, Machiavellianism, Narcissism, and Psychopathy have been associated with the negative poles (degradation, delusion, destruction) of three abstract traits that also each have a positive pole (revelation, manifestation, direction). His life has been one of hardship and adversity, but instead of feeling sorry for himself and giving up, he chose survival, using any and every resource available. He learned that even darkness could be turned to his advantage, by discovering the higher principle and the corresponding light associated with it.

    Ivan Throne was recently interviewed:

    Michael System, another view of human nature emphasizes polarities as a means of self-awareness and self-development:

    I happen to be a scholar in the observation mode with a goal of growth. Being focused on growth, this chart has been very helpful in identifying dark (negative) issues in my personality, seeing them as a potential strengths, and working to transform them to the positive pole. For example, I have a stoic attitude which most of my life expressed as the negative pole resignation ("What's the use?"). At last I am approaching tranquility ("All is well.")
    Fred said

    Quote Originally posted by Fred Steeves View Post
    ...........you are bringing up. Shadow work, dark nights of the soul, finding one's way through Chapel Perilous. Invaluable experience, honing in on that sweet spot right smack in the middle of the two opposing poles.

    Don Juan thought the warrior extremely fortunate to encounter a petty tyrant:
    Thanks Myst!!!!!!!
    You are bringing some new material to ME in my quest to understand MYSELF and yes, how to navigate chapel perilous because that is where we seem to be (lots and lots of us).

    "Chapel Perilous" is an occult term referring to a psychological state in which an individual cannot be certain whether they have been aided or hindered by some force outside the realm of the natural world, or whether what appeared to be supernatural interference was a product of their own vivid imagination.

    From the (Tek) Gnostic perspective, to enter Chapel Perilous is to come to the shocking realization that "the Gods are Crazy." This is the epiphanous moment when one realizes the ambivalent... or worse... malevolent nature of what the Gnostics identified as the Demiurge. This deranged entity is not to be confused with the ultimate, transcendent creative power, which cannot be named.

    Chapel Perilous was used as a Discordian term by the late writer and philosopher Robert Anton Wilson in his 1977 book Cosmic Trigger. According to Wilson, being in this state leads the subject to become either stone paranoid or an agnostic... there is no third way.

    The concept of "Chapel Perilous" was used by Antero Alli, in his 1986 book, Angel Tech: A Modern Shaman's Guide to Reality Selection which is based on Timothy Leary's Eight-circuit model of consciousness. In Alli's book, Chapel Perilous is regarded as a rite of passage, when moving between the four lower circuits of consciousness to the higher circuits. In Chapel Perilous, the integrity of the lower circuits is tested in preparation for activation of the higher circuits.

    The term Chapel Perilous first appeared in Sir Thomas Malory's Le Morte d'Arthur (1485) as the setting for an adventure in which sorceress Hellawes unsuccessfully attempts to seduce Sir Lancelot. T. S. Eliot used it symbolically in "The Waste Land" (1922).

    - Wikipedia

    Students of the Grail romances will remember that in many of the versions the hero... sometimes it is a heroine... meets with a strange and terrifying adventure in a mysterious Chapel, an adventure which, we are given to understand, is fraught with extreme peril to life. The details vary: sometimes there is a Dead Body laid on the altar; sometimes a Black Hand extinguishes the tapers; there are strange and threatening voices, and the general impression is that this is an adventure in which supernatural, and evil, forces are engaged.

    - Jessie L Weston

    The history of the term is interesting. Traditionally, the Chapel Perilous or Grail Castle has been the ultimate destination for knights questing after the Holy Grail. For most people of my generation, this brings up an image out (those great tekgnostic saints) of Monty Python, as well it should. The story has been around for a long time, though. The mystical experiences within this chapel are the climax of many an Arthurian adventure story. Those who entered were typically subjected to a rigorous battery of challenges, some of which seem to be training exercises of sorts, while others are ultimate tests of purity, conviction, and understanding.

    Dangerous traps are to be found there, often tailored to force a confrontation with an individual knight’s personal weaknesses. Those who failed would not be allowed to access the Grail and might even be killed or driven mad in the attempt. On the other hand, a candidate who proved worthy might hope to be granted great power and priceless treasures.

    The idea of Chapel Perilous as it is commonly used in psychedelic parlance comes from Robert Anton Wilson’s countercultural classic The Cosmic Trigger. Uncle Bob defines Chapel Perilous as: "A stage in the magickal quest in which your maps turned out to be totally inadequate for the territory and you’re completely lost." He has quite a lot more to say on the topic, having spent a good deal of time there himself:

    "Chapel Perilous, like the mysterious entity called ‘I,’ cannot be located in the space-time continuum; it is weightless, odorless, tasteless and undetectable by ordinary instruments. Indeed, like the Ego, it is even possible to deny that it is there. And yet, even more like the Ego, once you are inside it, there doesn’t seem to be any way to ever get out again, until you suddenly discover that it has been brought into existence by thought and does not exist outside thought. Everything you fear is waiting with slavering jaws in Chapel Perilous, but if you are armed with the wand of intuition, the cup of sympathy, the sword of reason and the pentacle of valor, you will find there (the legends say) the Medicine of Metals, the Elixir of Life, the Philosopher’s Stone, True Wisdom and Perfect Happiness.

    That's what the legends always say, and the language of myth is poetically precise. For instance, if you go into that realm without the sword of reason, you will lose your mind, but at the same time, if you take only the sword of reason without the cup of sympathy, you will lose your heart. Even more remarkably, if you approach without the wand of intuition, you can stand at the door for decades never realizing you have arrived. You might think you are just waiting for a bus, or wandering from room to room looking for your cigarettes, watching a TV show, or reading a cryptic and ambiguous book. Chapel Perilous is tricky that way."http://www.tekgnostics.com/CHAPEL.HTM
    Much of what I think now has to to with the idea that we are in a simulation experience learning from our behavior.
    It's engagement that gives opportunity to evolve.
    People reference the poles of love and fear. It is likened for me to "expression and touching" over "repression and withdrawal of touch".
    That beings associate abuse with love implies to me that the pole is not as much about "how" expression and touching are done but the willingness to engage over shut down that "matters" most.

    Guilt and shame are self referencing "power off" isolators.

    I think we have every possible possibility within us in the roles we act out.
    That they are ROLES (states) means to me they do not determine us but that we choose to act in certain ways.
    I have developed my own concept that empathy (putting ourselves fully in the place of others) is what "saves" us from acting out the dark triad. Empathy is shut down when overwhelming trauma happens I think and beings go into withdrawal, repression and "death". I think about how narcissists have a "false self". If you cannot express your "deeper self", you have that added layer of padding?
    Don't we hear some mystics talk about how truth (the deep structure) is discovered as we simplify and take off the false layers?

    I think we are here to uncover and that needs to be allowing and accepting and LOVING of the aspects of self we have been taught to shun? This lets us open up and like the sun hitting dank corners never touched, the dank recessed corners of us are aired and lightened by love.
    Example: being punished for anger as a child makes rage that builds up. Allowing anger lets it have its place and it is "enlightened".

    In this Grand Simulation I am not bothered at all by the idea that there are multiple "trials".
    We move through all the possible states to have comprehension of a whole via PERCEPTION in EXPERIENCE.
    IMO that is our desire an we are not victims here but wayfarers.
    Last edited by Maggie, 31st January 2017 at 17:33.

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  13. #67
    Senior Member United States EL_O_EL's Avatar
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    After reading all this info, from people I respect in this here microcosm of the greater "awakened" community, I have a better understanding of why I felt so uncomfortable at PA, and didn't stick around very long. As a member of many different forums for my various passions; Beagles/Surfing/Sailing/ET-Enlightenment-Awakening-Enchilada, I immediately found Project Avalon to be a very entropic and divided Platform. Not only did I not feel welcome, but I also didn't feel "good Enough" to even speak up or out, or make any contribution whatsoever. Oh well, for whatever that is worth, it is what it is. However, one thing that I heard mentioned, here in this thread, is how Bill Ryan is supported by the P.A. forum. Curiosity is getting the best of me, and I have to ask, how much $ could Project Avalon potentially bring in, and in return for what? (memberships/readings/secret decoder ring?) Its something I've always wondered, and seeing as though there are evidently a few "Insiders" here, perhaps a rough estimate will be forthcoming. Really I'm just curious as to how a Forum King can behave, as he does, and still rely on it for monthly financial sustenance (which leads me to ask "how much are we talking?). If its deemed "too personal", then please forgive me! Aloha & Mahalo!

    ::
    Last edited by EL_O_EL, 10th February 2017 at 17:52. Reason: afterthoughts!

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  15. #68
    Senior Member donk's Avatar
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    Whatever Project Avalon originally was, it has become a BR created reality. Anyone who (literally) buys into is responsible, and Bill should not be judged for that.

    From what I understand, at least as of a year or so ago he was not taking in more than enough to be beyond an (Ecuadorean) comfort level...if the person he lived with is to be believed. The fact that he openly publicly used his domain to try to get his "stolen" gold back (that they apparently illegally smuggled into Ecuador together) seems to support that idea.

    What those (public) actions (revealing the bit of his private life) also did...was expose other aspects of the man that weren't apparent in the carefully crafted character he created that you see as the "king of that castle"...which is his right, if not his intention.

    One thing I got out of my participation there was to learn better discernment of information, and when I'm applying to the information he provided--in that appeal to his audience where he was impugning the wife* that allegedly wronged him...I personally wouldn't think he's got a pot to p!ss in.

    But even if he is hoarding meeeeee-lions from donations from those that believe in the character on the Project he created, could that really tell you anything meaningful about this industry? People love to point at people making money off anything around here as somehow wrong...while we all exist in a world where we gotta have money to eat (or power the devices that allow us to read this).

    At any rate...at least HE seems to think it is "too personal" (or irrelevent), or he would openly and honestly reveal as many details about his financial situation as he did about his sentimentally valuable gold. Hey...the POTUS is doing the same thing, his finances are actually irrevelant, just knowing how rich he wants us to think he is what matters.

    Very few in actual reality are completely open about their finances. It is an aspect of civlized life where descretion/deception is a VALUE...so it is difficult discern anything meaningful about anyone else's motives about their honesty about finances.

    It's not his (or Tump's or my) fault we as a society accept that it is not the norm to disclose "operations cost this, we took in this"....at least here in America, most feel that "is nobody's business but their own". Most people will argue it is our right. So it goes...

    But what broke my heart about Bill and PA....I thought he (and it) was better than that, that he created something encouraging others to be better than that. Well...it was better to me than most things i was looking at, during that time. Through my participation there, I learned that no matter what we feel about manipulators, putting responsibility for the victimization solely on them is the problem that will lock us in an endless cycle. It's the "victims" that need to take responsibility, enablers need to see outside of their reality box....cuz the decievers are gonna deceive no matter how wrong anyone tells them it is.

    But what I found is that he doesn't want an outsider to see clearly anything about him or his realm that he does not create himself. Believers ain't gonna stop giving him (at least) their energy until they stop lying to themselves. I spent a lot of time and emotional energy trying to steer the Project as whole (and so more often than not, HIM directly) toward self reflection with the ultimate goal of total transparency...but it turned out PA wasn't quite as "extra-ordinary" as I thought (or my idea that is what we should be doing isn't as good as I like to think)...he showed no interest (except defensiveness)...and very few (if any) of the membership seemed to want to get on board.

    I guess I could take this as feedback that it is wrong to want to try for that "sterling integrity"? I certainly took it that it wasn't appreciated there, nonetheless....

    His creation is a special one, where lots of great people contribute lots of great things and probably lots more than that get a lot out of it...for ZERO cash, if they choose. I was trying to be an example of what i hoped it could be, openly sharing and analyzing the aspects of myself I felt I was not able to do elsewhere or as easily with anyone else. I saw (and see) lots of other people doing that too--and like i was...at first...was extremely grateful to Bill for the platform to do so.

    To me, any problem with the platform (or Bill himself) has nothing to do with money, that's just a distraction. Whether it's a well-funded operation or a pathetic man begging for crumbs, the amount of money Bill makes to me means nothing, as I think it should to the majority who use it for free.

    All I think the money issue should be is a reflection of how far he is willing to go....after all, anyone that has ANY problem or disagreement with him is asked: what are you doing for humanity/to make world a better place?

    Apparently his own answer to it is that he provides that platform. My own answer is that I provide a perspective on it...unfortunately for him, it is one that he doesn't like.

    I honestly really hope my "contribution to humanity" doesn't harm his income stream (or him in any way), though I hope even more that income isn't his primary motive for providing the platform. In my humble opinion and discernment (which I learned mostly from my experience at PA)....IF he makes enough from it to survive, good for him, but the fact this isn't perfectly unarguably clear for me sorta defeats the some of the stated intentions of what it the project is supposed to be....

    Anyways, just my two cents about the money angle...I really like to look at the situation removing it (or at least marginalizing it) from the equation. I think malc could confirm that very low percentage of contributors on a forum contribute actual dollars? Or am I just cheap *******?

    *Bill got Christine to go along with him in hiding their marriage from membership for "her protection"...which I find more than insulting to the intelligence of anyone on a site that disusses "conspiracy research"
    Last edited by donk, 11th February 2017 at 18:01.
    What is the purpose of your presence?

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  17. #69
    Senior Member giovonni's Avatar
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    In all honesty - After the original Project Avalon Forum was closed down for the participating membership - Its so called replacement - the new private PA2.0 should of been renamed for it's true purposeful intent for what it was (and has apparently played out to be) - The Bill Ryan Forum ...

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  19. #70
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    Quote Originally posted by giovonni View Post
    In all honesty - After the original Project Avalon Forum was closed down for the participating membership - Its so called replacement - the new private PA2.0 should of been renamed for it's reakl purposeful intent what it was (and has apparently played out to be) - The Bill Ryan Forum ...
    Ahhh yes....I remember those days. censored became the name of the game at the new digs and it seems banning is the hammer.

    I remember and was involved in many heated discussions back in the day...I'm sure you remember a few of those Gio...LOL But banning for it?

    Well....it seems to be the trend now which is why I rarely join in there anymore and exactly why Lionhawk is no longer there because someone he liked very much got banned for a reason he still questions as bizarre. It upset him so much he's retreated and is now back to building my kitchen....which is actually a good thing! yay!

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  21. #71
    Senior Member Fred Steeves's Avatar
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    There is still no doubt in my mind a reason why when you break up the full forum title, it reads much differently than the usual PA, or just plain Avalon: "The Project - Avalon Forum". A Project indeed... The Project *is* Avalon Forum, same as it's predecessors Project Camelot, and Project Serpo. Projects in which the varying results (us) are studied, and filed away by some very smart people who are deeply into the social engineering/meme producing game. I call them "The Smarts".

    I have also seen it referred to as "PA/ULTRA" (I love that one! ), and being that the MK programs slipped off into the shadows after being partially exposed during the mid 1970's here in the U.S., who the hell knows what the alphabet black programs are actually able to do these days through combinations of psychology, technology, and other such. For example, IMO Ewan Cameron type laboratory settings are no longer necessary.

    Isn't this quite the strange alumni to be a part of? One way or another, we managed to find ourselves part of a Project.

    But aw hell ma it ain't all bad, personally I wouldn't trade that experience for all the riches in the world. A lot can be gleaned from watching the watchers, and trading field notes amongst fellow misfit toys. Besides, who says that experience ever actually ends? Maybe it's like the Hotel California where you can check out any time you like, but you can never leave. As above so below, as below so above.

    Who attends Chapel Perilous? Many

    Who eventually realizes they are even at the gates of Chapel Perilous? Some

    Who transcends Chapel Perilous, once the predicament is realized? A scant few
    Last edited by Fred Steeves, 12th February 2017 at 19:21.

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  23. #72
    Super Moderator United States Dreamtimer's Avatar
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    Serpo popped up again over there. A video from January of 2016 of Len Kasten at UPARS telling the story of a secret space program from 2005 called Crystal Knight, now known as Project Serpo.
    Last edited by Dreamtimer, 12th February 2017 at 23:55.

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  25. #73
    Senior Member Fred Steeves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    Serpo popped up again over there. A video from January of 2016 of Len Kasten at UPARS telling the story of a secret space program from 2005 called Crystal Knight, now known as Project Serpo.
    Yeah well, memes like an astronaut exchange program between the U.S. and planet Serpo will live on in infamy, so long as there are the myriad of Coast To Coast type of shows that make their living from keeping them alive, and gullible listeners to eat it all up with zero follow up research. Popcorn anyone?

    In 2006 it was "The Jerry Pippen Show" that gave the story it's big launch, leading up to the 2006 International UFO Congress held in Laughlin, Nevada.
    http://www.jerrypippin.com/UFO_Files_serpo_project.htm

    To clarify, the Serpo saga is set back in the 60's, and only becomes public in 2005/2006. This is when Bill is plucked from obscurity, and on his way to becoming an alt media celebrity.

    The following is how Bill describes the initial events:

    The information began to be released on 2 November 2005 by a retired senior official within the US Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA) who calls himself “Anonymous”. Until he chooses to make his name known, this is the way he will be represented here. Anonymous reports that he is not acting individually and is part of a group of six DIA personnel working together as an alliance: three current and three former employees. He is their chief spokesman.
    As an addendum, it continues to be my strong hunch that on this list, would be written nearly (if not) every name Project Camelot interviewed back in the day. Ever wonder how a newbie on the scene, finds himself with a wellspring of high level, friendly prospects suddenly ready to tell their tales? Could be dead wrong, but it sure seems to add up. Needless to say, I would love to get me a little peeksy at that list of names.

    The information is currently being released in installments on a private UFO e-mail list moderated by Victor Martinez. The list contains about a hundred and fifty people, including many extremely well-known names in UFO research and related or leading edge scientific fields. Until permissions are granted, their names will be withheld out of courtesy and to respect confidentiality.
    http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/so...ndex_serpo.htm

    This focus is on Bill Ryan because I think this community should have some general idea of it's roots, and because I believe his story reflects on how the alternative media works at large. And beyond...

    As above so below, as below so above.
    Last edited by Fred Steeves, 13th February 2017 at 13:21.

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  27. #74
    Senior Member donk's Avatar
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    Ahhh, "how the alternative media works at large", one of my favorite things to mull over.

    The aspect most difficult to wrap our brains around is the emotional charge around the "data". I think in large part because of the similarities it has with "mainstream" thought.

    The difference should be very clear: the commanlity in the whole community is that all that participate are challenging the the sacred dogmas of the world we live in. Whether it be the level of technology that exists, the truth in the transmissions of "facts" in the news, whether the earth is sphere or all life evolved from a single cell or all that exists sprang from a singularity point...the tie that binds us is that we question the unquestionable

    My stumbling upon the project was in search of information challenging the accept belief (prevailing social dogma) that even if "ED's" (ghosts/demons) exist, we can't know any real information about them. When I found PA, it seemed that it was "safe space" for people who wanted to challenge this belief.

    As I dug deeper, learning how to better discernment and research techniques, only in retrospect did it seem so extraordinary that I had found what to me was the most extensive and comprehensive collection of "data" from individuals documenting anomalous experiences with ETs...and the thoughts and theories that connected ET phenomona with ED stuff.

    Camelot was cutting edge in it's time, and is still compelling enough to endure. That's where looking deeper ran me afoul of the community I really still actually believe in. I think it's possible to create something that Avalonians tell us they're space is, if the most vocal supporters could be more responsible in challenging and discussing things with the detractors...without the prevailing set of acceptable beliefs of the leader being the final word.

    That's an emotional maturity that few exhibit, especially when met resistance. The beauty of the forum format for me was the ability to directly contact the people (or people close to the people) directly involved. It seemed to allow for more due diligence and for more information and light to be revealed about the sides of things the rest of us don't often (if ever) get to see.

    The fact that Bill seemed resistant to certain avenues, lines of questioning, and especially in the exposing certain areas of his own beliefs and particular details of his relationships with the people involved lead me to the sort of implications you point out Fred, that he may be some sort of operative or PA may have been designed (or captured) with the intent of manipulating the audience.

    Watching what I could of how he behaved though, I lean these days toward the suspicion that he's just a fallible human like us, just above average at appearing to be better than the main stream status quo...perhaps not even self aware enough to see how on a subtle level he contributes to the muddying of the waters his Project is supposed to be trying to clear up.

    Like all of the mini-virtual-kingdoms to the individuals that have cropped up since, there is the limitations of the prevailing dogma of the leader (and most vocal supporters, fueled by the WRONGNESS of the challengers that is so obvious to the flock). In PA's case, the dogma is the story line Bill is comfortable with. It varies on each situation and individuals, with some where he is completely open to all discussion about....down to the things that he will discuss with individuals (in private).

    The broad range gives the appearance of an "open mind"...and about a lot of things he (and PA) really is. There's situations where he gives clear consistent arguments that make a lot of sense, and uncondescendingly allows views that challenge them to be explored. This is the hook, and this is the excuse/justification that to the minds of the followers make it the BEST at what it's doing and therefore able to rationalize how there's no need for growth or self reflection.

    To me, "science" is understanding (belief) of the WHAT of how things are, where "spirituality" is our belief (understanding) of WHY things are. I think that's why Kerry and Bill made for such a great team (if you allow for the possibility it wasn't an op from the gate). And why PA can seem so "unbalanced" (at least to me).

    I think most interested in anything the platform can do, want as much "scientific method approved" hard data (the WHAT) as can be provided by the participants, the format is PERFECT for that. Conversely, it is just as effective at allowing for discussion of theories and speculation and discussion (the WHY). The problem comes in on the participants' emotional attachment to their ideas, and the intentional and unintentional communication techniques that come not from an open place of trying to learn and understand, but from (more often than not) the defense of each individuals' dogmatic beliefs, the emotional immaturity (or beaten-into-us program) of BEING RIGHT being more important to us than entertaining an idea that challenge our core reality.

    Bill and the mods did a pretty good job while I was there in moderating the super negatively charged attacks and most immature of communication techniques. This attracts lots of people with fear of that being turned on them. People like to believe POLITE equals maturity. You can't fault them for giving a safe space for the type who respect polite socially acceptable discourse over actual information. This place (and many others) install this in their culture, which works to avoid the annoyances you find in the anarchy of a GLP type situation.

    I thought at the time of the end of my time there that the problem was Bill's self-honesty:
    -He created a space where "science and spirituality meet", where people are encouraged to expose what they've learned of the "hidden information", yet he actively hides from the public (and his own membership) his deep respect/fear for the most sacred text of the belief system (to be fair he DOES own up to coming from)
    -He hid the fact he was married, while his wife was a prominent poster and moderator...UNTIL he choose to accuse her of a crime and use his platform to attack her character
    -he shows no interest into delving any deeper into any of his own work or further vetting anyone he "trusts", content with the superficial output they release and speculative discussion that usually goes into loops that very simple personal insights might resolve

    For all the good that comes out of it, I personally was just unable to justify any of it...I couldn't just "move on" from these core realities that i felt were EASILY changeable (and forgivable, and a lot of good....even for Bill's ego...would have come out of it), and put a lot of energy into trying to convince Bill of this.

    Along the way, I learned my communication style is not exactly effective for most people, and i continue to work on it. I discovered that the true issue lies not in the leaders, but in the followers who's faith and trust keep them in their positions...and that the only solution to this problem is to learn to how to get people to honestly look at WHY they believe what they believe. I learned that the ALTERNATIVE arena makes this especially difficult because most of believe we are doing that just by being here...or by the fact we are challenging the mainstream.

    That's where I am now...what I think is super valuable about this realm. It feels like that quote often attributed to Edison, something like:

    "5% of the people think, 10% think they think; and the other 85% would rather die than think"

    I think the most dangerous are that middle group...and i don't exclude myself from it. I continually work hard to try to make sure I'm not settling in there, but I am never arrogant enough to include myself completely in that first group...cuz I think once you do...you automatically fall back down to that middle one.

    I could be wrong about everything...I don't KNOW a damn thing, but I think if we could start accepting that instead of prevailing condition of taking it personally to be deceived (or WRONG about something), we could get somewhere. I see hope in this in a lot of the strangest places, particularly the mainstream and among the type of people that you'd think would dismissive of "altenative" thought.

    We are all in this together, maybe we just need to find ways to convince our leaders of that? Cuz i sure don't seem like we're at an emotional maturity level as a species to live without them....so maybe the first step is trying to find ways to hold them accountable, make them responsible, help them understand that hiding things from us protects NO ONE, not even themselves
    Last edited by donk, 13th February 2017 at 17:28.
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    Senior Member KINGSTON FRIZZ's Avatar
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    Wow. This brings bad bad memories LOL! I remember being kicked off Avalon by (Mr obnoxious) Paul about 3 days before Aragorn was kicked off. We were in contact with each other and Corey. Do you remember Aragorn? Back then I was know as EYES WIDE OPEN. I am still on Avalon under another name but have not posted there for a very long. They dont have a clue.
    Last edited by Dreamtimer, 14th February 2017 at 13:13.

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