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Thread: The Avalon Files

  1. #31
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    The Simon thing bothered me very much. I brought the issue to Bill when I was made aware of the issue by yourself, this was probably January 2015. I brought the issue to Bill and then left Avalon because of the situation. And although it may have taken Bill a little more time than I would have liked, Avalon is a "No Simon Parks" zone right now. Now I do not own a forum and I do not know the nuances that go into something like this, but it appears that Bill felt he needed proof before he could go further and once he acquired such, he acted as he should have.
    Folks who post pro-Simon rhetoric on Avalon now are taken to task pretty quick now.
    And, I've even seen Bill try to educate Kerry Cassidy on the matter, although she seems pretty enamored with Simon Parks, and wouldn't hear Bill out on the subject, Bill still took Kerry to task over Simon, I was pretty proud of him.
    I'm quite satisfied with how Bill is handling the Simon Parks situation now.

    In so far as Christine is concerned, that is just none of my business and I do not care about it at all.
    I have my own domestic situation to worry about and I'm not going to worry about a digital aquaintance's domestic problems.



    Quote Originally posted by Aragorn View Post
    The bottom line is that those who are defending Bill Ryan here are themselves still blinded by the man's light.
    Life is never a question of black or white, life is always dealt in shades of grey. I'm not blind, I simply choose to accept people as a whole, and sometimes that includes the imperfections as well.

    Quote Originally posted by Aragorn View Post
    Bill Ryan may have done good things, but that doesn't make him into a good person
    How are you going to pass judgement on a man you barely even know?


    Quote Originally posted by Aragorn View Post
    yet, and in my personal opinion, the worn-out phrase "He's only human" is a p*ss-poor excuse for the fact that the man is a certifiable dark triad — a personality type with a combination of psychopathy, Machiavellianism and narcissism.
    Machiavellianism? Really?
    You must not have met too many truly Machiavellian types.
    You are just using words here that attempt to paint a picture with no real substance to your argument.

    Firstly let me state that I've met Machiavellian types Aragorn, I've met men who have slipped drugs into someone's food for the lone purpose of creating another addict to keep them company. Thus ruining a persons life. I've met people who have abandoned their children, let me state that again, who have abandoned their children for no other reason other than to have more freedom in their lifestyle. I know men who have raped their own children, and continued to do so until those children were old enough to support themselves and leave their house.

    You use words like Machiavellian, dark triad, psychopathy but I'm not sure you understand human nature enough to use those words my friend.

    You use these words to paint Bill in the light of a villain so you can play the hero.
    But in my opinion neither is the case.

    The world isn't just a hero-victim dynamic, and although I loath Simon Parks, the folks he had sex with were still willing participants from what I understand, did he use his position in a completely unethical way, yes, but it takes two to Tango, these folks agreed to partake in his prescription for healing and as such they have to take some of the responsibility for what happened themselves. I absolutely believe this.
    If I go visiting an abductee for information and leave having gotten a d!ck in the @ss the only person I'm going to blame in that scenario is my self.
    You can't vilify everyone who doesn't act in accordance with how you feel they should have acted. And this stands for everyone who didn't act the way you think they should have in the Simon Parks fiasco.
    Last edited by DNA, 16th January 2017 at 16:24.

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  3. #32
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    Quote Originally posted by donk View Post
    Your tune was way different back then my friend
    It was, and tunes change.

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  5. #33
    Senior Member Fred Steeves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by giovonni View Post
    Back during the summer of 2011, I got meet and spend several days with (and attend to) Mr Bob Dean ...
    Note he was very much a real gentleman, and in my opinion was not lacking in his humanity ...



    Sharing his lunch with Jedar the wonder dog ...



    At the campfire sharing some whiskey and cigars.
    I hear ya Gio, in April of that same year (2011) I took the opportunity presented to spend an afternoon over coffee with Bill and Inelia at a Tampa Bay area Starbucks. It was an interesting and delightful three hours or so, and Bill was ever the perfect English gentleman. It was after that I would refer to him as a friend here and then for a time (over at Nexus), while defending him to the hilt in the wake of the Charles mayhem.

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  7. #34
    Senior Member donk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by DNA View Post
    It was, and tunes change.
    Your projecting of motives on to others, combined with the moral relativism you use to judge them and what they "should" be doing or how they "shpuld" be viewed (in your mind) hasn't seemed to

    Back then you were all about transparency. Now you chose not to be transparent about something you could have provided information about. Maybe it wasn't important, you're involvement with IW and the views you transmitted back then. But they're important to me in piecing together the online persona you choose to transmit...thanks for your input...I'd bet BR appreciates it as well
    What is the purpose of your presence?

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  9. #35
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    I don't know what suggested to Fred that he start this thread? That so many are rehashing old perceptions is perhaps a sign that chaos is stirring undigested "stuff"...who is friend and who is foe? Where can we place our trust?

    For those without a rock, the ground feels really shifty at the moment. IMO Avalon is an important symbol of our deepest knowing that there is solid ROCK: our LIMINAL SELF grounded here as Presence in our world.



    Avalon does not belong to BR or that group posting or anyone. Clever to have taken it for a spin.....

    The disappointments of PA and its championed whistling blowers comes because we have all been wandering around searching for the REAL Avalon and our birth right... People respond to the idea of a "safe place" to express our original uncommon perceptions and unusual experiences...those aspects we have seen and need to now understand.

    Discern the mix up between paranormal reality and paranoid fantasy and IMO no one can then entrap your sensibility.

    Paranormal is authentic and genuine and yes, scary and wonderful and amazing...all things that make up the LIMINAL....the threshold to an UNKNOWN.
    The whole mix up is that people have Dis EASE when the world becomes too strange to rationalize. They become so filled with fear that they stall out in looking for champions to slay a perceived monster. They descend into paranoia. It is contagious as the thought forms gather in.

    Opportunities then arise to be manipulated by "Health professionals" and "saviors" (and doesn't Parks and his ilk gain entry via his promise to help one's HEALTH and security?)

    There is a necessary chaos between NORMAL mundane and PARANORMAL liminal and the tricksters who use our UNBALANCED states of mind are the lurking dangers.

    It is not accidental that the tools for expanded consciousness used in the wrong setting, without good timing can create illness.

    OK, so we are forlorn because Avalon retreated to the mists.
    We want to go there and we are in tears and anguish.
    We search and search for the ferry.
    We study how to build the bridge so we gain the access to this island.
    We become the ones able to find the means.


    According to Monmouth, in Vita Merlini (a wonderful book), to reach Avalon it is necessary to undertake a sea voyage. The historian maintains that on that island nature produced grain, apples and grapes by itself, without the need to sow, plow or cultivate. He also said that whomever lives in Avalon could live for more than 100 years.

    Avalon has been, for centuries, a mythical place that symbolizes purity, abundance and magic, and which is the reason for the strong significance it has had in Western culture for so many years. It is a terrestrial utopia and, at the same time, a point of political reference of a time when rulers and their knights were brave, honest and virtuous, a harmonious bridge between the earthy and the celestial, between what is and what some would like it to be. There are the intact values (those that we have corrupted to the point of dismantling), and there are the nine fairies that guard King Arthur and his paradise of apples.http://www.faena.com/aleph/articles/...-lost-kingdom/
    We have the capacity to be immune to the tricks of the paranoid mind.
    The fairies are real and live on Avalon still but we won't find them without our OWN sea voyage through our own mists with OUR inner guide.
    Bless us all everyone and may we not be stalled out this time around before we sail.


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  11. #36
    Senior Member donk's Avatar
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    I came to the "alternative" community looking for information practical to my real life that I could not find anywhere else. I found that at PA, in fact in that period with that purpose is where I came your (Marcus) excellent post from you that I adopted my sig line from.

    It was helpful. Besides interacting with seemingly genuine people about what most consider "supernatural" personal life nuisances, I found a lot of interesting perspectives on "higher level" stuff I was interested in. Not only that, most of the people I respected there were most concerned with personal responsibility and most of their talk was about "walking your walk." Emotional maturity...know thyself

    As is the custom of most humans I encounter, most are told from an "authoratative" perspective...other people's "truth" that would it would never occur to them to present as "negotiable". I'm sure a lot of stuff out there IS from the authority of Truth, something 99 outa 100 people experiencing it, in the reality that we share...could agree upon. And obviously there is just as much outright deception, for any number of reasons. Discernment is another key value of the purported spirit of Avalon...and it is a wonderful tool for that.

    What I discovered to be a giant problem for me though, is that seemed the community level of PA was not only not interested in "walking it's walk"...it was as sensitive to criticism and.adverse to self reflection as everything it/they/we criticized. This was personified in the actual authority, Bill, in his protection of the sacred text of Scientology he directly told me he feared and admitted to actively hiding from the forum.

    That was the trigger for me, how should "science and spirituality meet" in a place where we could talk about every other sacred text openly, entertain an discuss any other belief in a place where people come seeking the information and data otherwise hidden for them...we couldn't talk about the one "daddy" thought was TOO DANGEROUS for us membership.

    Even people I showed EXACTLY what he said, can seem to excuse that. Justify participating for all the other "good" it (and he) bring to the table. Well, maybe it's just me, but.I truly believe that is the systemic problem endemic in every fractal of our existence: enabling an abusive relationship. Keeping "family" (state, personal, etc) secrets. The hypocracy of encourage others to open up or come forward and blow whistles....except for that thing that's important to me...not only can we not talk about it...you are an enemy of the community for even bringing it up.

    That's the reality (I thought) we experienced together. When the "trolls" followed us around as we tried to make sense of what we thought was a psyop, we had direct evidence that BR pays attention when someone tells him somebody's criticizing him. I dont know whether he'd literally send out "spies" to keep tabs on critics...he probably didn't need to then, he had enough emotionally attached peeps that would show him anything anyone said...the one thing we both know though: he went to the tiny little spot with what, a half dozen active members, three quarters of which were "us" because he was so concerned an obvious made troll made a ridiculous puppet of him (member that?)...maybe I don't use the term correctly but I associate the term Machiavellian with that type of behavior.

    Regardless, that was just the most blatant example to show me that the place was no "alternative", it was run the way nearly every other "civilized" social structure operates, with the same average level of emotional maturity. I thought it was different, that it was a place where we COULD be the change we wanted to see, a community that'd be receptive to transparency and criticism, with a fair and wise ruler that would be open to change and like the rest of us was still working on growing. Maybe things (like you) have changed...I haven't been giving it my energy, as he and it didn't seem to want to...like the American dream, it is the best-est as it is, just ignore the stuff you want to...that's not as important as all the "good" that justifies it
    What is the purpose of your presence?

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  13. #37
    Senior Member Ireland sarahdita85's Avatar
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    Yes it takes 2 to tango, but no one has the right to mess with your head for months in order to get what they want. I havent spoke about it for a while because i pretty much pushed it to the back of my mind and im not looking for sympathy and never will, but that man is a predator plain and simple, he will probably be long gone before all his other 'hobbies' come to light. I dont need to explain myself and I will never be that weak again, but whatever he did truly screwed my head up and i havent been able to have meaningful relationships since 2014, not to mention the nightmares and sleep paralysis. So no, its not as simple as 'it takes 2 to tango', not in this situation anyway.

    Not to mention the abuse i suffered from his followers for a good year after the incident, I'm glad people are seeing him how he really is now.

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  15. #38
    Senior Member donk's Avatar
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    Another item that might be of interest: Christine Andersen is a person too. With lots of valuable experiences and insights to share. Perspectives every bit as valid as BR's or anyone else's.

    When the way Bill treated her is dismissed as "personal problems" that should not be considered in the tapestry that is your perception of the man and his character and intentions, you do yourself a disservice.

    But I guess you gotta to do that in order to be able to hang your hopes on a Trump, eh? *winky face*
    What is the purpose of your presence?

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  17. #39
    Senior Member donk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by sarahdita85 View Post
    Yes it takes 2 to tango, but no one has the right to mess with your head for months in order to get what they want. I havent spoke about it for a while because i pretty much pushed it to the back of my mind and im not looking for sympathy and never will, but that man is a predator plain and simple, he will probably be long gone before all his other 'hobbies' come to light. I dont need to explain myself and I will never be that weak again, but whatever he did truly screwed my head up and i havent been able to have meaningful relationships since 2014, not to mention the nightmares and sleep paralysis. So no, its not as simple as 'it takes 2 to tango', not in this situation anyway.

    Not to mention the abuse i suffered from his followers for a good year after the incident, I'm glad people are seeing him how he really is now.
    I believe you...and this is exactly why I think the discussion is important. Enabling is a big a component to abuse cycle as the actual abuse itself. It's why I singled out Marcus and Sam...the prodigal sons of PA...they are text book examples of the "justification problem" which much can be learned from, that I "walk my walk" by trying to change.
    What is the purpose of your presence?

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  19. #40
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    I hope that my invocations of what feels like a meta picture of reality (as I see it) does not discount the pain that people feel when they do trust a person in "charge" and are let down. OFTEN IMO, the only ones trying to project that status of authority are those who are desperately in need of attention. The energetic boost from vamping others is a substitute for communion with one's own source.

    People like BR are narcissists and I think this is the state of becoming more and more a hollow shell case of emptiness. Narcissists R US is a matrix condition. It all (from my vantage point) just looks so inevitable given how the energy from others SEEMS easier to get than self source connections. The valuation by competition means some are the BEST and MOST famous and others NOT famous. The FAME food of adulation is one of the most potent drugs and hooks people into caring more about that drug than how others are affected.

    I am sad FOR narcissists more than those who get burned and know it. I really don't feel sorry for myself that I looked up to someone(s) who seemed to be more capable and wise, wanting what they seemed to have, feeling "low" and not as "valuable". It seems like an initiation experience toward one's sovereign ability to generate an inner connection with SELF.

    Some others are stuck who may never realize the "Cult-I-Vation" or they feel they get some weird trade off.... they are in some weird dance of mutual vampirization.

    I feel quite sorrowful for those who never make the transition from energy taken secondhand from others to SELF generation. Somehow, I think they may have a rough time when the transition out occurs. Where there are no others to vamp, where there is only oneself, that seems like the hell we have heard about....

    In a metaperspective, the people who having been set up as icons, who then reach a crisis and cannot just let go of the role are in such a heavy position that I think it may lead to death by egoistic rigor mortis.

    One prime example is an Icon I have admired deeply and I see a sad loss of flexibility and expansion because he did not want to lose his prestige as "role model". This is a teaching tale.

    A Symbiosis Shattered

    By Dennis McKenna
    (The Psychedelic Salon Podcast #316, 45:40 – 1:01:56)

    By this time, Terence was getting a lot of attention for his ‘rap’, as he called it. He had been a featured speaker at a landmark conference on psychedelics held at UC, Santa Barbara in May, 1983 that featured a number of established and emerging luminaries, including Albert Hofmann, Sasha Shulgin, Andrew Weil, Ralph Metzner, Karl Ruck, Walter Houston Clark and others.

    Terence’s edgy talk was titled: “Hallucinogens: Monkeys Discover Hyperspace A.K.A. Return to the Logos. It was quite unlike anything else presented there, and it was an important catalytic event in his emergence as a public persona. People loved hearing these wild ideas, and Terence’s mesmeric voice and articulate presentation made him the perfect spokesman.

    It didn’t matter that much that what he said was incomprehensible or nonsensical, his audience was uncritical and most did not have the education to challenge him, and few did. People just listened slack-jawed in fascination. I used to kid him that it didn’t matter what he said; he could stand up and read the phonebook and people would hang on every word, because it wasn’t what he said, it was that he said it so darned well. His rap was not science, it was not exactly philosophy, either, it was poetry and Terence was inventing himself as the Irish bard of the psychedelic zeitgeist.

    By the time the 80’s faded into history, Terence was well ensconced in his iconic role as the chief spokesman for the new psychedelic culture, along with the timewave and the impending end of history, all thoroughly embellished with the collection of bizarre notions that we had dragged back from the jungles of La Chorrera twenty years previously. He had found his schtick and it was paying the bills, and he was out there on the public stage and there were growing legions of fans who loved to hear his rap.

    There was no real competition for the niche he had carved out for himself; Leary was still around, but by this time old and boring. The original 60’s psychedelic message was about peace, free love, eastern wisdom and back to nature, Terence’s audience was mostly younger; genuine inhabitants of the global village predicted by McCluhan and rapidly morphing into reality. They had grown up bathed in the cool glow of television and far from being Luddite back-to-landers, these were world-spanning tech-nomads of an emerging global tribalism, the enthusiastic vanguard of the new, post-historical, archaic revival.

    But even as Terence played out the role that destiny and fate had carved out for him, there were darker forces at work, well hidden from the glare of public adulation. As Terence became more visible as a public figure and began to accumulate a devoted following, on a personal level he became plagued by doubts about his ideas that he had vigorously espoused for years; and doubts about the role that the world had thrust upon him.

    A strong, cognitive dissonance emerged between his public persona as the shaman guru and his own self-understanding that he was anything but an enlightened being. He didn’t want to be the wise man guru telling people what to think, he wanted people to think for themselves, like Timothy Leary. That was the whole thrust of his message, he was human while others wanted him to be a bodhisattva.

    Terence's pivotal, existential crisis came abruptly, some time in '88 or '89. Everything that happened after that event was fallout. I don't know exactly when it happened, and I don't know exactly what happened; I am piecing it together from what Kat has told me, and she has volunteered few details and I am reluctant to probe.

    It happened when they were living for a time on the big island, and it was a mushroom trip they shared that was absolutely terrifying for Terence. It was terrifying because, for some reason, the mushroom turned on him. The gentle, wise, humorous mushroom spirit, that he had come to know and trust as an ally and teacher, ripped back the facade to reveal an abyss of utter existential despair. Terence kept saying, so Kat told me, that it was "a lack of all meaning, a lack of all meaning."

    And this induced panic in Terence, and probably, I speculate, a feeling he was going mad. He couldn't deal with it. Kat's efforts to reassure him were fruitless. After that experience, he never again took mushrooms, and he took other psychedelics, such as DMT and ayahuasca, only on rare occasions and with great reluctance.

    Whatever the specific content of the psychedelic experience might have been that triggered the cognitive collapse of Terence's worldview and precipitated his existential crisis, what was most remarkable was that he did not see it coming. He did not see it coming.

    When one works deeply, and over long periods, with a particular plant teacher, there inevitably comes a point where the examination of the self comes front and center. One may learn much from psychedelics about archetypes, myths, and other dimensions, shamanic techniques, aliens and the construction of the cosmogonic and cognitive worldview, but sooner or later they hold up a mirror in which one must confront the self.
    Terence Mckenna developed a brain tumor and left the planet quite early IMO....April 3, 2000
    Last edited by Maggie, 16th January 2017 at 19:45.

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  21. #41
    Administrator Aragorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by DNA View Post
    The Simon thing bothered me very much. I brought the issue to Bill when I was made aware of the issue by yourself, this was probably January 2015. I brought the issue to Bill and then left Avalon because of the situation. And although it may have taken Bill a little more time than I would have liked, Avalon is a "No Simon Parks" zone right now. Now I do not own a forum and I do not know the nuances that go into something like this, but it appears that Bill felt he needed proof before he could go further and once he acquired such, he acted as he should have.
    If what you state here-above were true, then as the founder and owner of Project Avalon, Bill Ryan could (and should) have used the resources available to him in order to ascertain the veracity of the various claims made by Avalon members (and others) on account of Simon Parkes and his misconduct. For a man of Bill Ryan's intelligence and with his connections, it would have been a piece of cake to do so. But he chose not to.

    Bill Ryan knew exactly what was going on with Simon Parkes, and yet he chose to "aid and abet" Simon Parkes because Parkes had threatened to sue both him and the whole of Project Avalon — which is Simon Parkes' typical modus operandi — and The Man With The Hat™ took it seriously.

    Señor Ryan is a wanted man in at least one country that I know of — i.e. the USA, and more specifically in the state of California, where he was convicted in absentia (*) — and possibly in two or three other countries as well. Trust me, he's not looking forward to appearing before a judge.


    (*) The case of the fake Picasso. And I do believe that Bill himself may have been conned in that matter — not that he was, but it is quite possible.

    Bill Ryan's claim is that he had a written certificate of authenticity from an art expert, and as I understand it, the counter-argument only had Pablo Picasso's daughter's word that her father had not made that drawing, but unless she herself is a qualified art expert, I don't see how her opinion could outweigh that of a genuine expert. Pablo may have made that drawing without that his daughter knew about it. I doubt that she would have been present with each and every drawing or painting her father made. But I guess we'll never know the truth behind that story.


    Quote Originally posted by DNA View Post
    Folks who post pro-Simon rhetoric on Avalon now are taken to task pretty quick now.
    Yes, because nowadays, with more and more complaints about and evidence against Simon Parkes having come in, Bill Ryan can't afford to turn a blind eye anymore, and so he had no other choice but to take an open stance in the matter and publicly denounce Simon Parkes' misconduct. But that has nothing to do with ethics or wanting to protect the innocent. It was a purely politically motivated move on his part.

    Quote Originally posted by DNA View Post
    Quote Originally posted by Aragorn View Post
    Bill Ryan may have done good things, but that doesn't make him into a good person
    How are you going to pass judgement on a man you barely even know?
    I think I know him a lot better than you do, Marcus. When I joined Project Avalon, I too looked up to the guy. I considered him a hero. But then his mask fell off only two weeks later, when he chose to make an example out of me over a stupid misunderstanding, which then prompted him to post a hugely self-glorifying thread a few days later.

    From that moment on, I started seeing Bill Ryan as a person with a good side and a bad side. But I had no idea yet at that point in time just how dark this bad side of him was, until his feud with Corey broke out.

    And from then on, over how he attempted to get information about Corey from me by sending me a PM while posing as Atlas/Buares, all through the way he managed to push Christine, Claudia and Hazel out of the mod team and then lied about the circumstances on the open forum, up to how he handled the Simon Parkes affair and how both Laura and I were banned, not to mention that he tried to get bsbray to edit out Bill Ryan's name from posts made here at The One Truth by Lord Sidious — which bsbray did not do and which he instead reported to the mod room — I think I've seen enough of the man to have an idea of what he's capable of, thank you very much.

    Quote Originally posted by DNA View Post
    Quote Originally posted by Aragorn View Post
    [...] in my personal opinion, the worn-out phrase "He's only human" is a p*ss-poor excuse for the fact that the man is a certifiable dark triad — a personality type with a combination of psychopathy, Machiavellianism and narcissism.
    Machiavellianism? Really?
    Yes, Machiavellianism, really.

    Quote Originally posted by DNA View Post
    You must not have met too many truly Machiavellian types.
    On the contrary. I've had a girlfriend once who was a dark triad as well, and my brother was married to one for twenty years. But perhaps you don't properly understand what Machiavellians do.

    Quote Originally posted by DNA View Post
    You are just using words here that attempt to paint a picture with no real substance to your argument.
    My dear Marcus, I have so far done nothing but substantiate my claims. It is not my fault that you refuse to see the substantiation. And your reaction to what I have said about the man — and which everyone with their eyes open can ascertain for the truth — is a textbook example of being in denial. You've put the guy up on a pedestal and you're grasping at straws and looking for excuses so as to dismiss the ugly truths about him.

    Quote Originally posted by DNA View Post
    Firstly let me state that I've met Machiavellian types Aragorn, I've met men who have slipped drugs into someone's food for the lone purpose of creating another addict to keep them company. Thus ruining a persons life. I've met people who have abandoned their children, let me state that again, who have abandoned their children for no other reason other than to have more freedom in their lifestyle. I know men who have raped their own children, and continued to do so until those children were old enough to support themselves and leave their house.
    All of the examples you list here are manifestations of psychopathy — or sociopathy, if you will; they are two different names for the same condition — but that is not Machiavellianism. There is of course a little bit of overlap, but Machiavellians are specifically known for their way of manipulating people through intrigue, spin, half-truths and lies.

    A man who sexually abuses his own children is a psychopath, but not necessarily a Machiavellian. A man who slips drugs into someone's food or drink in order to sexually take advantage of them is also a psychopath, but also not necessarily a Machiavellian.

    Someone like Zbigniew Brzezinsky on the other hand, who orchestrated the events in Afghanistan in such a way that the Soviets would invade Afghanistan and who then armed the Afghani resistance — the Mujahedin — in order to bring the Soviets to their knees, that is a true Machiavellian at work.

    A Machiavellian plays people like chess pieces in order to get them exactly where he (or she) wants them.

    Quote Originally posted by DNA View Post
    You use words like Machiavellian, dark triad, psychopathy but I'm not sure you understand human nature enough to use those words my friend.
    I have both extensive experience with and a proper psychiatric understanding of the conditions to substantiate what I say. I am also a master of observation — courtesy of that autism, you know? I see things other people don't see. Not because they're not there, but because other people's brains filter those things out as "unimportant information".

    Quote Originally posted by DNA View Post
    You use these words to paint Bill in the light of a villain so you can play the hero.
    You obviously know as little about me as you do about Bill Ryan. I have no desire to play a hero. I am more concerned with who and what I really am than with how people perceive me. And I can assure you that there are quite a few people who think very lowly of me — and if you truly believe what you've just said about me here-above, then I'm counting you as one of those people as well.

    But fair enough. You're in denial and you want me to shut up about the guy, so that's what I'm going to do. I believe I see some elevated terrain over yonder, and thus I will take my leave from this thread.

    Quote Originally posted by DNA View Post
    The world isn't just a hero-victim dynamic, and although I loath Simon Parks, the folks he had sex with were still willing participants from what I understand, did he use his position in a completely unethical way, yes, but it takes two to Tango, these folks agreed to partake in his prescription for healing and as such they have to take some of the responsibility for what happened themselves. I absolutely believe this.
    If I go visiting an abductee for information and leave having gotten a d!ck in the @ss the only person I'm going to blame in that scenario is my self.
    I hope you realize what you've just said here-above. You've just insulted every rape victim in the world.
    = DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR =

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    Senior Member giovonni's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Fred Steeves View Post
    I hear ya Gio, in April of that same year (2011) I took the opportunity presented to spend an afternoon over coffee with Bill and Inelia at a Tampa Bay area Starbucks. It was an interesting and delightful three hours or so, and Bill was ever the perfect English gentleman. It was after that I would refer to him as a friend here and then for a time (over at Nexus), while defending him to the hilt in the wake of the Charles mayhem.
    That's good hear and know Fred,

    Face to face impressions are very important and telling for me.

    I spent several days (as well) with Bill & Christine while they visited the ranch ...

    As well as Inelia later on etc... I do believe in keeping some items private here.

    There's a lot of things i know, i would never disclose here or in public ...

    Note: i never participated in the Charles (Atticus) affairs - was never interested ...

    I wish no one ill will or discontent, though i do not like controlling types.

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    Quote Originally posted by donk View Post
    Your projecting of motives on to others, combined with the moral relativism you use to judge them and what they "should" be doing or how they "shpuld" be viewed (in your mind) hasn't seemed to

    Back then you were all about transparency. Now you chose not to be transparent about something you could have provided information about. Maybe it wasn't important, you're involvement with IW and the views you transmitted back then. But they're important to me in piecing together the online persona you choose to transmit...thanks for your input...I'd bet BR appreciates it as well
    Dude the only reason you are throwing shade at me is because I'm not on the "let's throw Bill Ryan under the bus" band wagon. You didn't know me two years ago and you don't know me now.
    The only thing you know about me is that I'm willing to forgive, forget and move on to things that truly matter.
    I had no idea you guys held on to the past like this and refuse to move on. With you guys throwing "psychological observations" around like you do why don't you look up how when you hold on to negativity from the past you are doing everyone including yourself a disservice.
    I got nothing but love for you Donk, but in the grand scheme of things were you really that wronged by anybody?

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  27. #44
    Member on Sabbatical Morocco modwiz's Avatar
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    As Fred himself stated, this thread has not gone in the direction he intended. I am not blameless for that veering off. I do see this unintended direction as toxic and will refrain from posting or thanking posts, for now.

    It is clear that BR is a polarizing figure. There is enough going on in the world of actual importance and impact on our lives that I believe we could pursue more productive paths. My apologies to Fred for being one of those who contributed to unproductive dialogue, as it has become.

    Interestingly, active members are rising. It is sad to see this because clearly it is drama that has created this sudden resurgence of dormant members posting. Discussion of topics that might make a difference in how our world runs, an outgrowth of our consciousness and psyche, seems to not be seen as worthy.
    Last edited by modwiz, 16th January 2017 at 23:55.
    "To learn who rules over you simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize" -- Voltaire

    "Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people."-- Eleanor Roosevelt

    "Misery loves company. Wisdom has to look for it." -- Anonymous

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    Senior Member donk's Avatar
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    No DNA I wasn't wronged...I WAS wrong. About a lot of things. In my perception of reality especially. Not just on the forums but in parallels in my real life too.

    I was wrong to assume the people that taught me such concepts as real personal responsibility, honest self reflection, and emotional maturity actual practiced such things. It turns out the ones I learned the most from weren't actually the best at any of them.

    I am a bit frustrated that those I respect can turn out to be such enablers. Cuz I don't see things the way you do, you say it's not a totally "savior-victim" reality...the reality I live in seems like ALL the problems we have are rooted in the abuse cycle (call it what you like).

    No I don't know YOU...I only know the online persona you've presented for years, from the hundreds of posts I've read you created. I'm not trying to flatter you, you were one of my favorite posters and after reading the story you told about passing spirits (what is the purpose of your presence?) I went back to your earlier posts. I know the dude you choose to write about, and felt a connection as I thought you seem among the most genuine I've seen do it
    Last edited by donk, 17th January 2017 at 15:52.
    What is the purpose of your presence?

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