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Thread: Grace Under Pressure

  1. #1
    Senior Member Fred Steeves's Avatar
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    Grace Under Pressure

    Over the course of the last couple of years, I've become quite the connoisseur of citizen/police videoed interactions. Knowledge is certainly power, but so is one's conduct in exercising their Constitutional Rights here in the U.S. I would gladly buy this guy a beer for the way he handles himself in an obviously very stressful (and IMO unreasonable) situation. Of the thousands of these clips that I've watched and studied so far, this one is easily top 10.

    You can make the police back off and stand down (if you're doing nothing wrong that is), but you had better know your shit and you had better do it right. Cop logic can be quite frustrating.

    I enjoyed this clip tremendously, if you have 20 minutes to spare I think you will as well. He does everything right, and he does it politely demonstrating grace under pressure.

    Last edited by Fred Steeves; 8th January 2017 at 18:13.

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    Moderator United States Dreamtimer's Avatar
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    Have you seen many over-the-top reactions resulting in people getting hurt?

    My understanding is that there are many difficulties associated with police handling people with mental health or disability issues. Their training doesn't go much into these populations. And then there are the racism/sexism issues.

    My husband works with adults with intellectual (developmental) disabilities.

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    Senior Member Fred Steeves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    Have you seen many over-the-top reactions resulting in people getting hurt?
    Generally speaking, no. But then with the kind I usually watch that aspect wouldn't really enter the picture.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    My understanding is that there are many difficulties associated with police handling people with mental health or disability issues. Their training doesn't go much into these populations.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    My husband works with adults with intellectual (developmental) disabilities.
    I have a close relative who did that for a time, incredibly challenging (but rewarding) work. It takes a special breed to do that, as I'm sure you're very aware.

    I would guess their training on this type of situation in virtually zero. Of course there are always exceptions to the rules, and I've seen some cops go the extra mile like that, but it's very apparent the major focus of their training is in the use of overwhelming force for pretty much every situation.

    A prime example would be the shooting of a mentally unbalanced homeless guy named James Boyd, executed for the crime of sleeping out in the desert. This is as close to cold blooded murder as most of us will ever see.

    Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwytoxMuk4U


    The main reason I started watching these though was for the front row seat education, check point refusals being one category.

    •In practice, Border Patrol agents routinely ignore or misunderstand the limits of their legal authority in the course of individual stops, resulting in violations of the constitutional rights of innocent people. These problems are compounded by inadequate training for Border Patrol agents, a lack of oversight by CBP and the U.S. Department of Homeland Security, and the consistent failure of CBP to hold agents accountable for abuse. Thus, although the 100-mile border zone is not literally "Constitution free," the U.S. government frequently acts like it is.
    https://www.aclu.org/other/constitut...le-border-zone

    Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTG1EHw1XZw


    There is also an exploding category referred to as "audits" or "tests", meaning people literally go out to test government officials on how well (or not so well) they strive to uphold and defend Constitutional rights for the people they serve. Lost in the shuffle has been that police have all but forgotten they are public *servants*, and the public with a camera is actually doing a lot to serve as sometimes embarrassing reminders.

    There are many ways this is done: Go out and film (always from a public space!) courthouses, police stations, military installations, prisons, traffic stops, Federal Reserve, defense corporations, etc. Filming in public is a First Amendment right, and this is a classic example of a First Amendment Audit:

    Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKWWDhjFGi8


    Second Amendment audits are more edgy, that's where you CAN wind up getting yourself shot with a wrong move:

    Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEai9g688Sw


    I won't bore you with any more videos, but upon initial contact these basic audits generally delve into other Amendments, namely the 4th and 5th. Not giving permission (which is often needed!) for search and/or seizure, and choosing to remain silent as to not risk incriminating one's self.

    Like I said it's been quite the ride education wise. Before launching into this two years ago I would have spilled my guts to any cop for any reason, given permission to search whatever, pretty much whatever they wanted. Not any more, now we'll do it by the book. As always, knowledge is power.

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    Senior Member Morocco modwiz's Avatar
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    Great videos, Fred. Thanks.
    "To learn who rules over you simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize" -- Voltaire

    "Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people."-- Eleanor Roosevelt

    "Misery loves company. Wisdom has to look for it." -- Anonymous

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    Moderator United States Dreamtimer's Avatar
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    I've heard some horror stories. One woman went through hell at the hands of Border Patrol and has suffered long-term physical and mental issues as a result. Another one was a man who cooperated in every way with police to help find who murdered his wife and they were just working him to get something to nail him with. He spent decades in jail while the actual muderer went free.

    In Arizona they can't do alcohol checkpoints so they do 'drivers license checks'.

    Is the 100 mile from the border 'no constitutional rights zone' still in effect? It's a big Patriot Act loophole that gave officials more power and us no rights.

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  11. #6
    Senior Member Fred Steeves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by modwiz View Post
    Great videos, Fred. Thanks.
    Thanks Rad, much appreciated.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    Another one was a man who cooperated in every way with police to help find who murdered his wife and they were just working him to get something to nail him with. He spent decades in jail while the actual muderer went free.
    Whew, that's a toughy. Like most people, he probably never suspected that the police would ever lie, or be deceptive towards him. Truth is they can *legally* say whatever the hell they want to get someone to incriminate themselves. This was huge misunderstanding I had (also probably like most people) with the 5th Amendment, and it's right to remain silent.

    Like most people I always assumed it was basically *just* for the guilty, so they couldn't be forced to testify against themselves. Like IRS head Lois Lerner taking the 5th before Congress, great example. But it's also for being questioned by the police, because they will not only take anything we say and use it against us, with glee, to help get the conviction, they will twist our words around until the report states nothing of the kind of what we actually said.

    It's like Orwell's famous 2=2=5, also know as "cop logic". Under questioning I can tell them I am simply out for an evening walk around the neighborhood, and next thing I know the report states I was admittedly "prowling" the neighborhood. The can, and will do shit like that. I'll bet that's similar to what happened to the guy in your example.

    At least if the person says "I don't answer questions", it makes it awfully tough to take 2+2 and make it =5.

    As a disclaimer it may well sound like I'm a cop hater or something, but that's far from the truth. I have all the respect in the world for the tough dangerous job they do, and if I need one it's nice to know assistance is only a 911 away. But, like fire, they can also be a dangerous servant. Especially post 911, boy was that a game changer in this respect as well. Everybody is now a potential terrorist...

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  13. #7
    Senior Member Fred Steeves's Avatar
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    David Wharton (News Now Houston) has become one of my favorites at this film the police thing. He first hit the scene maybe a year or so ago, and I've watched him get better and better along the way both in his knowledge of basic Constitutional law, and how to deal with people in tense situations. A valuable life skill for any endeavor, but especially so when dealing with people who can lock you up in a cage with any missteps.

    In this latest video David masterfully demonstrates the power of knowledge, making Grace Under Pressure look like child's play. It's obvious he thoroughly enjoyed this encounter, as did I, and I think you will too.

    Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYYDgeu25QI


    For clarity's sake, these guys don't do this for kicks. They do it as a teaching tool (for both police and the general public) that photography is not a crime, even in these days of heightened terrorism paranoia. David was arrested 3 times last year, and detained 27 times. At no point did he ever break the law...

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    Senior Member sandy's Avatar
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    hahahhahahaaa it is always about power and control IMO
    Last edited by sandy; 18th February 2017 at 05:17.

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