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Thread: Election Fraud Thread

  1. #16
    Super Moderator United States Dreamtimer's Avatar
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    Democrats are a wicker man. Once they're burned, the other side believes it'll be absolved of sin.

    Thanks for pointing out that Shulkin's being investigated. That's good to know.

    So when I spoke of someone being investigated if they're recorded bragging about crimes I had a point. Good to see that acknowledged openly. Thanks.

    It's not partisan to point out the other side of a very two-sided issue. I'm weary of the Clintons being used as an excuse to stop all kinds of dialogue.
    Last edited by Dreamtimer, 2nd November 2016 at 14:09.

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  3. #17
    Senior Member donk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by bsbray View Post
    So tell me about the miracles accomplished by total apathy. When you stop caring at all about politics and passively let your country go to hell without even trying to do anything, you get points for that? I mean seriously, what do you think that's going to accomplish? People in Washington are going to feel guilty all of a sudden or something? I don't understand the strategy. It just seems like you've given up, and giving up isn't a strategy. Giving up is giving up. It means it's over for you.
    I'm not apathetic, I actively ignore the circus as best I can, and let me tell ya, it's made my life a whole lot better.

    Throwing energy toward a bad investment isn't always a better idea than things that appear like "apathy" to those emotionally invested in it. If I find out a game is rigged, I stop playing, I don't lie myself into believing I can make it better, especially when the "house that always wins", cuz they make and change the rules and choose which to enforce, is as big as the one creates the election cycle. It's not "giving up" to refuse to actively play that part of game, whilst doing the best I can in the parts I cannot get away from, that are forced upon me

    It doesn't matter what "moves" you are making, just because I'm choosing to not participate (and urging others to consider their "choice") in the superficial game within the game doesn't mean I'm APATHETIC, anymore than a spouting off your emotionally charged beliefs about the irrelevant-to-real-life-people information you're so attached to is DOING SOMETHING POSITIVE

    (except for you having fun playing the game, I guess that's positive...to you)
    Last edited by donk, 2nd November 2016 at 15:03.
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  5. #18
    Senior Member donk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by bsbray View Post
    The people telling you that voter fraud doesn't exist are the same people telling you that the electronic machines are perfectly fine. You can't pick and choose your sources on that one. They are all bad. All of the above is going on.

    Electronic voting machines were only introduced on a large scale for the 2000 presidential election. What do you think happened before then, all of our elections were totally clean and no one ever tried to cheat? Like cheating only became possible with electronics. Anyone who has read the Upton Sinclair classic The Jungle knows that's not the case. He was inspired by what he personally witnessed by mob bosses in Chicago, and his book resulted in investigations that turned out even worse than what he talks about in his book. Not in the Jim Crow South, suppressing blacks, but in the industrial heart of Chicago, home of Obama himself, yes, there was voter fraud already even in the 1800's. Scott Foval bragged about Democrats bussing people in for decades, in the context of a conversation of doing it again this year, but then again maybe he drank a beer and started hallucinating or something. Yeah that's probably the explanation for that. Nothing to see here folks.

    Saying that requiring a government-issued ID is discriminating against poor minorities might have been a viable argument during the Jim Crow era, but in 2016 with a black president who actually won states in the South, it's a little bit outdated and I'd love to see some numbers on exactly how many minorities don't carry some form of government-issued ID. If you can't provide those stats then you can't make a case that minorities are being targeted by requiring IDs in the first place.
    In the 2000 election it was shown that like 80 some percent of the machines were from Diebold, a company that creates ATM machines (and is run by a what was then a strongly biased partisan board).

    You mean to tell me in the years that follow, a company that makes cash machines couldn't correct the problems with a less sophisticated one? It's unreasonably to believe we could have made a more accurate count having learned some lessons?

    I think the process is working exactly as intended, "we the people" still participate and invest so much emotional energy despite the overwhelming evidence your vote probably isn't properly counted even if it DID matter (*cough* electoral college)

    My "apathy" is an example I am setting, hopefully others will be as bored with game so we cancel this stupid reality show and try something different. Ain't gonna happen as long as you "go-getters" doing your hard work and research and such keep empowering the system though
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  7. #19
    Senior Member donk's Avatar
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    ...actually, maybe it will. If people can actually integrate the information provided by the researchers outraged at the issues with the "game", can start looking at it with loving detachment and an open mind, they might just be able to see what a cognitive dissonance is required to feel/think that voting for POTUS, participating in that holy sacrament of the religion that the belief in the faith-based "American Government", is somehow "doing something". They'll realized that "good feeling" that we are somehow "given a choice" is such a silly lie we tell ourselves...
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    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    It's not partisan to point out the other side of a very two-sided issue. I'm weary of the Clintons being used as an excuse to stop all kinds of dialogue.
    You're the one making it a partisan issue by blaming all of Hillary's problems on the Republicans. It's not the Republican's fault that she set up a private server to hide illegal activities, or lied to Congress about it or any of the other things she did. You can just sit tight about the investigations because they're ongoing and more and more data is coming out by the day thanks to Wikileaks. And the voter fraud is not going on by the Republicans either this time, and I think that's the thing that you reject out of hand for purely partisan reasons. There is no other explanation for it, except that you are dividing the world into good and evil based on whether politicians are Republicans or Democrats. And that is frankly what disgusts me. I told you I didn't like Bush any more than Obama. You're the only one here that seems to think all of this is the fault of Republicans.

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  11. #21
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    Quote Originally posted by donk View Post
    I'm not apathetic, I actively ignore the circus as best I can, and let me tell ya, it's made my life a whole lot better.
    Stop thinking about yourself for a second and think of your country as a whole. How does refusing to vote actually help our country? If nobody voted what do you think would happen that would be so great? Really, I'm curious to know what you think would happen.

    Shane used to go around telling people all kinds of crazy stories, and when people like Sam or whoever else got wrapped up in it and were hurt by that, Shane said that wasn't his fault. It's other peoples' faults for believing him. In other words he takes no responsibility for his actions and doesn't care how they impact others. What do you think about that?

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  13. #22
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    The electoral college hasn't got a lot of discussion lately since all of this other voter fraud stuff has been coming out, but here's something to think about. Most states are "winner take all" (it's a states' rights issue to decide how electors are awarded by each state; some such as Maine award by district), but some have suggested electoral votes should be awarded by congressional districts instead. That way the states aren't winner-take-all, but award electors to more accurately reflect the sentiment of each state's voters.

    Here's a map that gives an idea how elections would look if it were by congressional district rather than winner-take-all by state (these are actually results by zip code from the 2012 presidential election):




    California and New York are two states that award 84 electoral votes to the Democrats (blue) at almost every election, just by themselves. That's a huge chunk of the total 270 needed. But check out the map above. California and New York both have significant areas of Republican voters (red) whose votes don't count in the end, simply because these are winner-take-all states. At the same time, Texas, even Mississippi, Alabama and South Carolina have large areas that tend to vote Democrat.

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  15. #23
    Tot Founder England The One's Avatar
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    From a neutral point of view i dont think it would make a difference who got voted in.Maybe if we stopped voting for all these idiots in then what.

    Like over here in the UK when we get ****ed off with a party we just vote the other one in and guess what nothing ever ever changes.I still find it strange how all the governments of the word who are a minority can control the masses like they do.Its like something was purposely put in place in every country to control us.

    Fortunately more and more are waking up to the fact that our politicians serve themselves and not the people.Maybe its time that we all stop voting as i have seen so many good people turn cuckoo and for what.Its all words words words.

    If Hillary gets voted in nothing will change.

    If Trump gets voted in nothing will change.

    Watch this space and come back to this post in 12 months time and i will say told ya so.

    Hillary will not go to jail and Trump will not build that wall.Those are my two predictions.

    If i am wrong i will eat my hat.

    God bless us all lol
    No one person can ever change the truth, but the truth, once learned, can and will change the person

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  17. #24
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    Quote Originally posted by The One View Post
    From a neutral point of view i dont think it would make a difference who got voted in.Maybe if we stopped voting for all these idiots in then what.
    That's what I ask. What do you think would realistically happen if everybody stopped voting? Think about it and imagine. It's almost like asking to have the right to vote taken away entirely, like asking to become a totalitarian state. Is there anything else that you think would happen, other than just having your government become an open dictatorship?

    Also it might be worthwhile to consult history and see why things are getting worse, how and why they use to be better. Because things were not always this bad. Apathy is part of the problem in reality, certainly not part of the solution.

    Fortunately more and more are waking up to the fact that our politicians serve themselves and not the people.Maybe its time that we all stop voting as i have seen so many good people turn cuckoo and for what.Its all words words words.
    I don't consider it "waking up" if the solution is to just give up and stop caring.

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  19. #25
    Tot Founder England The One's Avatar
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    if the solution is to just give up and stop caring.
    I did not say that but maybe there could be another way.
    No one person can ever change the truth, but the truth, once learned, can and will change the person

    You must be the change you wish to see in the world when you are through changing, you are through


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  21. #26
    Administrator Aragorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by The One View Post
    From a neutral point of view i dont think it would make a difference who got voted in.Maybe if we stopped voting for all these idiots in then what.

    Like over here in the UK when we get ****ed off with a party we just vote the other one in and guess what nothing ever ever changes.I still find it strange how all the governments of the word who are a minority can control the masses like they do.Its like something was purposely put in place in every country to control us.

    Fortunately more and more are waking up to the fact that our politicians serve themselves and not the people.Maybe its time that we all stop voting as i have seen so many good people turn cuckoo and for what.Its all words words words.
    Here in Belgium, it leaked out into the mainstream media about a decade ago that the three major political parties of the Flanders — i.e. the socialists, the Christian-democrats and the neo-liberals — were already making coalition agreements and dividing offices among the three of them before the elections had even taken place. Not to mention that we've even seen the creation of a new government without that any elections had been held when the previous government was forced to resign over its interference with the justice department.

    So whether it's left-wing or right-wing, it's always going to be "same shit, different asshole".





    Quote Originally posted by bsbray View Post
    That's what I ask. What do you think would realistically happen if everybody stopped voting?
    Here in Belgium, everyone who isn't incapacitated or abroad on urgent business is legally obliged to show up at the polling station and vote. Even the polling stations themselves are manned by civilians who are selected from a certain age group, and they too may not refuse their poll station duty.

    I consider this already totalitarian enough, and if people here were to say en masse "No, we are not going to show up and vote or man the polling stations", then the government would be given a clear and unmistakable signal that the population is fed up with it and won't take it anymore.

    But of course, that's never going to happen, even though they can't possibly go and lock us all up for refusing to comply. They don't have the manpower or the detention capacity for that — the prisons are already overpopulated as it is. But people are afraid. "What if they do come after me?

    I cannot vouch for the voting systems in other countries, but over here, they're either way going to shuffle positions around and negotiate between the parties — read: stab each other in the back and/or betray the voter — from the day after the elections on until the government is actually formed anyway. And from that moment on, it'll be their constituents whom they stab in the back.
    = DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR =

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  23. #27
    Member on Sabbatical Morocco modwiz's Avatar
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    I find the back a forth in the political threads to have a rough spirit. IMO, we have voting booths to make our case. I have been avoiding political "conversations" like the plague. If our speech does not promote the unity we 'commoners' need to throw off the parasites, I care to not participate. Just sayin'.
    "To learn who rules over you simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize" -- Voltaire

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  25. #28
    Senior Member donk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by bsbray View Post
    Stop thinking about yourself for a second and think of your country as a whole. How does refusing to vote actually help our country? If nobody voted what do you think would happen that would be so great? Really, I'm curious to know what you think would happen.

    Shane used to go around telling people all kinds of crazy stories, and when people like Sam or whoever else got wrapped up in it and were hurt by that, Shane said that wasn't his fault. It's other peoples' faults for believing him. In other words he takes no responsibility for his actions and doesn't care how they impact others. What do you think about that?
    What would be so "great"? To me, it would be great if something different happened, rather than "my country" staying the course it's always been on. It would be great to me if "we the people" stood up and decided to stop telling the lies we got so used to telling ourselves, if we started to stop participating in meaningless rituals designed to divide the masses while hiding the actual beings with real power, those humans that actually make decisions that impact all of our lives.

    ...and while I have NO idea whether the outcome would look "great" or not, I can't see it to be any worse than whatever will happen when your guy gets in (or not), I just think it would be nice to see a shift away from your religious belief that voting for POTUS is some kind of meaningful, honest responsibility and toward a direction where we actually start thinking about what we're doing and why...and start more honestly and earnestly taking REAL responsibility and making meaningful use of our energy.

    It's syncronistic you'd compare my sharing my unbelievable ideas with Shane, as when I read threads like this, listen to conversations in real life, watch the mainstream news...all I see is a real life manifestation of the "savior paradigm" that the Shane situation (for better or worse) brought to light for examination...hey my guy will make the country great again, or we NEED that gal or we're all doomed!! If I vote and consume as much of the information that I am being provided as I can, I will be acting in a meaningful way totally effecting change for the better

    I understand you do not see my preaching--that our emotional attachment to these elections and characters and rituals should be examined more honestly--can be misinterpretted , and that you see it an offensive attack on your sacred beliefs. And I apologize if you fear my sharing of these ideas is somehow dangerous to the paradigm you are devoting so much energy to, so that it might seem I'm unconcerned of my impact on others.

    But i assure you, the only reason I speak is to IMPACT others, and I am ready to take to full responsibility for whoever feels hurt by them. Please clarify how my ideas are hurting/impacting you, and I will do my best to clarify my intentions.

    And seriously, I answered tried answering your questions and will be happy to continue to do so....can you return the favor: What do people gain by believing you? What does it even mean to "believe you"...what are your "non dangerous/hurtful beliefs?" If I understand correctly it is important to vote and that your vote counts and one of the "choices" we have been presented is important to be POTUS for our future....is that an accurate interpretation?

    And just one more: if nobody voted, what would happen that would be so bad? Really, I'm curious to know what you think would happen....
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  27. #29
    Senior Member donk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by bsbray View Post
    That's what I ask. What do you think would realistically happen if everybody stopped voting? Think about it and imagine. It's almost like asking to have the right to vote taken away entirely, like asking to become a totalitarian state. Is there anything else that you think would happen, other than just having your government become an open dictatorship?

    Also it might be worthwhile to consult history and see why things are getting worse, how and why they use to be better. Because things were not always this bad. Apathy is part of the problem in reality, certainly not part of the solution.



    I don't consider it "waking up" if the solution is to just give up and stop caring.
    Refusing to vote is not apathy, nor does it necessarily indicate "just giving up and stopping caring". And the absence of voting for POTUS does not equate to a denial of democracy or promotion of totalatarianism.

    Sometimes it's hard to see through the cognitive dissonances forced on us, beyond the illusions of choices we are given, to see that there are endless possibilities beyond the ones they program us to believe are unavoidable, undeniable

    Ideas like mine all too often get lumped in the "captured" label of "anarchist". I am not preaching anarchy, and I am not railing against the system without suggestions for solutions. I am sharing my beliefs that we can create a life where any form government actually serves humanity...and pointing out that it requires growing up from the abuse cycles that have been carried down even from your mythical "good old days when things were 'not this bad' "

    Participating in the election to me is enabling abuse, promoting the savior paradigm. Lying to yourself that you can help it be better by voting for POTUS (and investing energy into this spectacle, this industry that is the election cycle) to me seems emotionally immature and a form of self-dishonesty...
    What is the purpose of your presence?

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  29. #30
    Super Moderator United States Dreamtimer's Avatar
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    donk, there was a video on Gio's thread about Trump and at one point he's pictured as a combination Knight and Angel. I commented on that thread about how Trump is being presented as a savior.

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