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Thread: DNA testing for jobs may be on its way, warns Gartner

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    Exclamation DNA testing for jobs may be on its way, warns Gartner

    "Oh, Brave New World..."







    Source: Computer World


    - There may be a future where genetics informs hiring and promotions. -

    ORLANDO, Fla. — It is illegal today to use DNA testing for employment, but as science advances its understanding of genes that correlate to certain desirable traits -- such as leadership and intelligence -- business may want this information.

    People seeking leadership roles in business, or even those in search of funding for a start-up, may volunteer their DNA test results to demonstrate that they have the right aptitude, leadership capabilities and intelligence for the job.

    This may sound far-fetched, but it's possible based on the direction of the science, according to Gartner analysts David Furlonger and Stephen Smith, who presented their research at the firm's Symposium IT/xpo here. This research is called "maverick" in Gartner parlance, meaning it has a somewhat low probability and is still years out, but its potential is nonetheless worrisome to the authors.

    It isn't as radical as it seems. Job selection on the basis of certain desirable genetic characteristics is already common in the military and sports. The average athlete in the National Football League, for instance, is 6'2" in height and nearly 247 pounds, versus the average man at 5'9" and 182 pounds.

    Science has demonstrated a linkage between genes and IQ in twins, and new research has identified genes linked to leadership. One firm, BGI in China, is working to identify human intelligence.

    Genetic testing to glean personal insights is also mainstream. People are interested in what genetic testing reveals about their health and ancestry. Science is certain to unlock more information from these genetic tests as time goes on.

    If businesses come to believe that some employees are born predisposed to leadership, they may be interested in identifying people early in their careers who have the genes that may help them become the next great CEO, CIO or CFO. But one thing businesses can't do is to ask for a blood test.

    The Genetic Information Nondiscrimination Act of 2008 prohibits employers from collecting this information. The law was motivated, in part, by concern that employers will use genetic test information to screen out job applicants who may be at risk for certain types of illnesses. A blood test may be unnecessary.

    Businesses, using this understanding about how some characteristics are genetically determined, may develop new interview methodologies and testing to help identify candidates predisposed to the traits they desire, such as leadership.

    Now that scientists know some characteristics are genetically driven, "we can move with a little more confidence and start modeling out what we think it might look like in ways that don't break the law," Smith said.

    It's also possible that people may voluntarily turn over DNA to demonstrate that they have the key markers to succeed, said Furlonger. A CEO candidate, for instance, may give up his or her DNA in a job hunt, prompting others to act similarly.

    "We should be cautious about this," said Smith.


    Source: Computer World
    = DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR =

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    It I think, could eventually lead to "gene stimulation" for setting up specific traits.. The technique is not unheard of in the insect world.

    Ants and other insects create queens, workers, fighters by adjusting genetic triggers. Apparently all the ants contain similar genes, just setting up the different chemical triggers then causes the development 'desired' by the colony.

    Seems to me eventually such programs could exist in human colonies for developing 'traits' desired. Eugenics in other words... No AI with this stuff as it is purely organic manipulation.

    Possibly, the 'gene testing' is only a first step, before gene manipulating, beyond eugenics maybe...

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    IF it comes to this...."they" can F.O.N.D. and over my dead body!
    sorry to offend but things are just getting out of hand....can not take much more of the 1984 BS and the sheeple who live on this rock! Right now, within the "medical" community, in some states of america, it is NOW..... all of the sudden "needed"....to have fingerprints in order to get a position/job. When is enuf, enuf?, since it WAS "they" who had all this stuff written.....in one form or another? Bout had it with "they" and "them".
    Irritated....for sure as I watch this country fall into total decline as some wake up, perhaps too late, with the political shenanigans going on and the dunces who voluntarily give up their DNA on "ancestor" dot com,(or whatever) which I am sure these "samples" are being thrown into a LARGE database already. pffffffffft!
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    That's a great thought @winDancer about ancestor dot com - that they are mapping for "desired" and un-"Desired" traits. I wonder what they are looking for? Me I tend to think they are looking for ET cross-breeding (experiments), and/or some of the eugenics experiments and/or manipulations created by the Nazi's, followed up by Paperclip later.. Like who's who these days? maybe that gene-code database would reveal some interesting 'lines' you suppose?

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    Bob,

    Thanks for a most interesting and original reasoning on the topic. Here I go again...

    Is it possible this type of "genetic selection" (or gene simulation as bob put it) by way of chemical triggers is something that is already happening, and perhaps it is something the scientific medical community does not reveal openly focus on this aspect of the "social hive".

    For example, could it be that a child the grows up in with a single parent has different chemical signals that "accents" more individual survival characteristics inherent in the common human design?

    Perhaps a child living in a stable home, with freedom to explore any and all curiosities may release a different chemical signal that activates a different component of the human design yielding them to be more willing to accept arbitrary social norms?

    I know that a lot of that might also be explained psychologically as per theories of how the mind works. But consider, there may be alternative theories worth considering:

    Dr Bergman in LA spoke of epi-genetics, which is a form of genetics as they manifest more closely to the "surface", they are more easily altered by states of mind and environmental stimuli. Could it be that chemical or hormonal equilibrium within the body also effects the person at this epi-genetic level in a similar way? I'm thinking of depression, compulsive behaviors of some kinds like restlessness or fidgeting, and perhaps any order of psychosomatic illness.

    Bergman makes mention of how toxicity in the environment effects epi-genetics of an individual to cause dis-ease. Removing the toxic elements about an individual and the body is more with-ease.

    If we accept that genetic influence to be more than a static blueprint and more like an aspect of our dynamic interaction of existence in this place, then we are immediately into the nature of how genetic influence the population of each type of insect in an ant colony or a bee hive as you mentioned.

    Indeed it is quite an exception to find systems in nature that are static, the norm is to notice dynamics between and within all systems/bodies (human beings, cells, bacteria, atoms etc). Why should genetics be any different?

    So in an indirect sort of reply to Winddancer, just like how this knowledge may yield the very sinister possibilities in darkness as imagined in a satanic realm, they can also lead the other way.
    Last edited by lcam88, 20th October 2016 at 06:58.

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    Sure...these gatherings of data and manipulations of nature could go in a better direction, but not until the "evil ones" are out of "control" of everyone....on this planet. We all are far from what IS good. Example: Our "election" process within america...is by the least...bizarre! The good faction(or as close to good as we can get for now)... with data being dumped in fathomable amounts, telling a story of nothing but "TRAITORs" within our government and yet...people are "screaming" for her/them within the "corrupt" and "controlled" media....all IGNORED by supposedly "the ones who count". These folks I am talking about can not even get out of their own ways let alone think anything "bad" is going on. I am literally embarrassed by how my fellow country people are acting/behaving...and most 99% asleep as functional zombies; which ALLOWS the bad to continue. Most assuredly, the good will not come soon enough and probably not within my lifetime, yet I can only HOPE this happens.....
    Another question here then is raised....why in the living hell are "they" even messing with Mother??? There should be no messing around...as I am sure, as I sit here, that is questionable of what has already been "created" and or messed with that we know nothing about?? The engineered "diseases" that we are now being exposed to alone are questionable...and then we get to have their engineered "cure" or "divergence" shoved down our throats. What are they putting "in to us"?, does anyone bother asking?? Super soldiers have been created by the mil....what are these cyborg types and what will we be subjected to in the future??
    The labs that "create" "things" by the mil....what type monsters will we face sooner than later?? These mad scientists who work for the "system" that IS, have been and STILL ARE, playing with Mother and I do not believe any of it is good....Heck...just "them" messing with our environment should be a statement as to how anything else should or would be.....JMHO.
    One does not need to burn books to destroy a civilization; Just get people to stop reading them...
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    Along this line, lcam88, the genetic predisposition, or program would consist also of what people would respond to, in the environment - social engineering using different odors, aka "aroma therapy", or the manipulation of the biological system and the mental processes by using key molecules which can be concentrated, and then extracted (cold pressed are the best they say)..

    It's not emphasised that they are in-fact manipulating consciousness/mind/response but use a justification of it helps people feel more relaxed when stressed (the levels of stressors are immense, as are the different combinations).

    Modern biochemical labs would extract or synthesise these modulators of emotion while the more traditionals would stick with "going natural" and arguing that the natural form is immensely better (??) in creating the desired effects with less "side effects" - this though is still biochemical modulation never-the-less, which ties back into some people it works on and some don't respond the same way.. What is it? Gene coding, different receptors are being turned OFF, and kept off by whatever reasons, so the "program" manipulation doesn't always work as planned/designed..

    What would they do then? Map the gene codes of individuals en masse and see what is common, what is off (turned off), what is accentuated. Then categorize if those different classes of folks would be better suited for X Y or Z, and quite possibly "predict" what the may do.

    Can a particular odor turn ON a group riot? Or turn it off?

    Can a particular odor cause people to buy like crazy in a supermarket, a clothing store, or buy a particular COMPUTER? A quick note on computers, certain plastics contain synthetic estrogens. Wonder why a particular computer seem's 'sexy'?

    It gets back to the way the ant colonies use chemistry to trigger (and turn off) genes which then acting like switches activate or deactivate the protein forming engines in the cells to modify and or control the brain and body.

    Traditionalists know this. The advanced formulation labs look for what is in the traditionalist and could possibly refine such (thereby creating a much more dramatic control of brain receptors for instance), without consideration of natural regulators which may not be synthesized but exist in the organic plant form (whole plant). Take coca leaf verses cocaine for instance - one is balanced the other is hyper-insane..

    Coming back to use or mis-use. The ant colony uses it for maintaining the colony in what over the eons it has determined is proper survival for the group, the colony. Industry these days, I have not seen being responsible, taking into account anything more than next quarter's balance sheet, yet alone what is going to happen in a millenia.

    Traditionalists scream like heck, irresponsibility !! Industrialists scream TENTS AND TEEPEE'S are not our future. Genetics says we can make 'em better !

    Knowledge is important, how it is used or not used and if (future) ethics can be used, is the best survival, the perpetuation of the "colony" the yardstick?




    Quote Originally posted by lcam88 View Post
    Bob,

    Thanks for a most interesting and original reasoning on the topic. Here I go again...

    Is it possible this type of "genetic selection" (or gene simulation as bob put it) by way of chemical triggers is something that is already happening, and perhaps it is something the scientific medical community does not reveal openly focus on this aspect of the "social hive".

    For example, could it be that a child the grows up in with a single parent has different chemical signals that "accents" more individual survival characteristics inherent in the common human design?

    Perhaps a child living in a stable home, with freedom to explore any and all curiosities may release a different chemical signal that activates a different component of the human design yielding them to be more willing to accept arbitrary social norms?

    I know that a lot of that might also be explained psychologically as per theories of how the mind works. But consider, there may be alternative theories worth considering:

    Dr Bergman in LA spoke of epi-genetics, which is a form of genetics as they manifest more closely to the "surface", they are more easily altered by states of mind and environmental stimuli. Could it be that chemical or hormonal equilibrium within the body also effects the person at this epi-genetic level in a similar way? I'm thinking of depression, compulsive behaviors of some kinds like restlessness or fidgeting, and perhaps any order of psychosomatic illness.

    Bergman makes mention of how toxicity in the environment effects epi-genetics of an individual to cause dis-ease. Removing the toxic elements about an individual and the body is more with-ease.

    If we accept that genetic influence to be more than a static blueprint and more like an aspect of our dynamic interaction of existence in this place, then we are immediately into the nature of how genetic influence the population of each type of insect in an ant colony or a bee hive as you mentioned.

    Indeed it is quite an exception to find systems in nature that are static, the norm is to notice dynamics between and within all systems/bodies (human beings, cells, bacteria, atoms etc). Why should genetics be any different?

    So in an indirect sort of reply to Winddancer, just like how this knowledge may yield the very sinister possibilities in darkness as imagined in a satanic realm, they can also lead the other way.

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    Bob:

    That was quite a detailed response. Special molecules and our sense of smell being used to trigger imbedded responses...

    For a brief moment I was thinking of homeo-therapy were you had written aromatherapy.

    Do you think shapes may also play a part in triggers?

    Why do I ask of shapes? I have been reading up on BioGeometry and shapes are shown to be very related to function in a biological system.

    I almost would risk asking whether the shape of molecules used in aromatherapy is as important as chemical composition except I suspect that to be a PHD thesis for some bright future scientist.
    Last edited by lcam88, 20th October 2016 at 17:47.

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    Quote Originally posted by lcam88 View Post
    Bob:

    That was quite a detailed response. Special molecules and our sense of smell being used to trigger imbedded responses...

    For a brief moment I was thinking of homeo-therapy were you had written aromatherapy.

    Do you think shapes may also play a part in triggers?

    Why do I ask of shapes? I have been reading up on BioGeometry and shapes are shown to be very related to function in a biological system.

    I almost would risk asking whether the shape of molecules used in aromatherapy is as important as chemical composition except I suspect that to be a PHD thesis for some bright future scientist.
    Well molecules DO have shape Methy group is a tetrahedron-like. (hint hint).. Methane (a molecular building block for those aromatic molecules looks like this:



    Terence McKenna's notes for instance show structures of molecules. My feeling is structures on a macro-scale can have fractal resonances on more micro scales.. And quite possibly the "molecular" gene structures have fractal linkages to larger structures (micro-macro).



    A molecule can be a key to a gene lock. A gene lock awaits a key to activate the "engine" (turn it on in other words). Choose what gene triggers will turn on what engines. Do some folks have certain gene engines already turned on? (reference to the OP #1 post). DNA testing is really "GENE mapping/Analysis"..

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    Bob:

    Great posting! Very insightful.

    We know (presume) that all the cells in our body have the same genetic code. Eventually if we look closely enough, maybe we can find small variations; these maybe cause by environmental factors like phosphates of benzonates and a whole host of toxins that may be in our midst. Perhaps if we observe genetic code differently we may find there is a dynamic at play between each cell...

    Considering the code to be pretty much the same, a cardiac cell knows to be a cardiac cell and a cell in a hair follicle knows to be a follicle cell. The exact nature of cells taking on roles specialized to the tissue they are incorporated in is a very close "fractal similarity" with the types of ants in an ant colony who take on specialized roles for the ant "collective".

    These "gene selection" process in a single human body must be at work and continually activate and in a dynamic equilibrium. Your previous posting suggested air-born chemical compounds that could be introduced into the body through respiration. That we may notice them by smell.

    My reasoning for suggesting shapes, and I suspect you know where I'm going with this, is not only the specific geometry of angles and length, but because within our body something is organizing the cells to assimilate into the types needed for every different type of tissue. Chemical compounds that enter the body cannot account for all the possibilities.

    All the possibilities of cellular assimilation as encoded in DNA requires an equal set of possible "shapes" or "shape combination" that would trigger them. Furthermore these forms must be naturally occurring and exist a way that is absolute and predictable. Speculation of "junk DNA" would be explained by assimilation possibilities where the triggering forms are uncommon or unnatural at this moment you and I know as now.

    Perhaps some forms where more common in the past under natural circumstances, that could explain some aspects of the differences we notice in evolution as the "trigger-sets" evolved.

    When you say "My feeling is structures on a macro-scale can have fractal resonances on more micro scales.. And quite possibly the "molecular" gene structures have fractal linkages to larger structures (micro-macro)." I'm reminded of harmonic resonances. But its a curious thing to contemplate the scope of these energetic systems...

    Would you go so far as to say astronomical alignments play a role? How much of a role, do you think?
    Last edited by lcam88, 21st October 2016 at 01:38.

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    Seems we are getting into deep water here lcam88 and are starting to deviate from the OP Post #1.. I think looking at why some folks want to look at DNA and make judgement calls for "future job positions" (kinda a eugenics concept, strongest or best suited is therefore 'worthy' (cough cough..) for a certain position/role...

    I think some of your questions/observations touch on wave particle duality.. When does a wave become a particle, and thinking in 3 dimensions only (skipping 4th, time), structure can be related to a set of complex waves, solidified by what is noted as "standing waves".. Standing waves are just that, they appear fixed, with density, thereby creating the illusion of solid.. that's about as much 'technical' we should go for this thread I think..

    So the gene/DNA system with that viewpoint is made up of solidified (virtually through standing waves) energy, and those structures can resemble (philosophically speaking) keys and locks (also again, made up of "solidified energy")..

    A chemical sufficiently in proximity then will resonate (have the ability to vibe in synch) with some lock, filling in an energetic "hole". (this is about when the "receptor" molecule can merge with a KEY molecule and complete a particular new structure, turning on the "engine") - see http://www.biologyinmotion.com/minilec/lock.html as a good reference to this concept..

    The need for proximity happens because the energy effects diminish over distance (inverse square law is the reason). Again, not wanting to get deep into this, I mentioned fractal resonance.. You mentioned harmonic resonance. Fractal resonance deals with 3D/4D and harmonic resonances focus on 1D and 2D concepts. A 3D system vibrating over time then has a 4th dimension factor.

    If we have a complex organism, programmed through a gene code system, with its background being "electromagnetic" (that wave particle stuff), that overall field for the final form (the organism), is part of the gene code system.. As you say each cell that has dna has the same gene signature, how does it properly differentiate? Well it does through the "electromagnetic ghost", or the other non-normally seen characteristic for biological organisms..

    Simple crystal grown, take a snowflake shows the various form which comes from the electromagnetic charge angles possible as the charges pool together - charge becomes form, and it goes back to the starting point "molecular charge".

    If one then takes that to its logical conclusion, if a sufficiently pure pattern of proper 'self organizing' shape(s) can be created and hold itself 'pure' over background "noise", it then can surpass normal inverse square law (energy diminishing resistance in other words) and reach out over a distance, other than the close proximity of a few nanometers normally experienced in chemical reactions.

    You hypothesize astronomical distances... Well, like sun to earth type of distances, 93 million miles or so? If the structural signals on the sun reach earth (geometrical 3D energies due to the molecules in fusion happening on the sun) certainly.. We know the sun affects all living things, and non-living, non-organic molecules on and in earth (including the seas).. Conversely, that which the sun has linked into, could therefore transfer information on the back channel, to the sun.. At this point it gets deep again, the linkage is quantum holographic on the back channel..

    Then, localized just on earth, could all life then be sharing some commonality? I think so. From the electromagnetic fractal resonances, yes, we are all connected. Is it important to look at the 'mother' (earth and the biosystem), yes..

    Can in enhanced bio-quantum-holographic resonance be achieved? I think so, by the group (community of life) understanding more of what it all is as a group organism, and then diminishing resistance, or in other words establishing a higher quantum resonance. So much more, but sticking with the OP... the significance of DNA categorizing what does it mean, where does it lead.

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    +1 to topic drift. I'm think I know how to get to a point aligned with the OP Post #1. But first.

    Quote Originally posted by Bob
    You hypothesize astronomical distances... Well, like sun to earth type of distances, 93 million miles or so?
    I was thinking light years distances as we expect from constellations we identify in the night sky. And...

    It isn't my hypothesis, astrology has been around for ages. This topic of forms or shapes being defining factor in resonant patterns associated with our biology is something better explained by Dr Ibrahim Karim, a link I shared above is exactly pointing to his research.

    The only other thing I would like to adding to this "soup" is the notion of "strength" or the "reach" of a resonant system being inversely proportional to the square of the distance between the bodies. That happens to be true for electro-magnetics as per a universe defined by relativity. But the reality we live in isn't modeled perfectly by those theoretically. Space isn't a complete vacuum, and electric currents are theorized to connect stellar systems via birkeland current structures if you ask the Electric Universe guys...

    I mention that only to compel thinking about stellar systems and constellations as systems rather than isolated stars in chance alignments...

    Tying this back to the OP:

    If the topic drifting we have endured on this thread is meaningful, I am going to put forth an experiment. Let's suppose we design a building and within the architecture of that building we place spheres of a lightly radioactive element such that the lines that connect these spheres define the atomic shape of serotonin (one example) as you share above. The placement of these spheres should respect the forces between each element in that molecule, the size of the sphere should respect the atomic mass of each element. <shrug/> I suppose the exact criteria on how to design this form should respect modern day knowledge obtained through our exhaustive quantitative science...

    You then sample the serotonin levels of groups of people, they circulate through the building, some groups might stay longer than others, some groups might only enter the fringe portions whereas others might be placed more close to the center. Variations noted...

    After their exposure period we sample serotonin levels again to see if any difference could be observed. Much like a statistical study done by pharmaceuticals for a new drug but designed to test whether the architecture of the shape designed into the space of the building has an observable effect.

    The point being, if shapes as defined by stars in the galaxy where thought to influence people, why can't we create artificial "constellations"?

    Perhaps the test group could give DNA samples... But that only makes sense if you are trying to explain why some people see an effect and others don't...

    The worst case scenario would be not seeing any change in serotonin levels in the sample group. Could it work?
    Last edited by lcam88, 21st October 2016 at 14:41.

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    Ya, topic drifting.. tendency to find dots is great during a discussion/sharing/thinking/feeling, but sometimes a tie is just a tie, a beard is just a beard and there is nothing more to be found..

    As to "astronomical distances", I took the first largest influence distance with the most impact.. Possibly some would say Lunar movement (tidal forces) creates the most cyclic deviation.. Certainly species evolved to deal with tides, and certainly species evolved to deal with the seasons (summer/winter cycles)..

    As to intergalactic cycles I am not sure on that one. InTRA-Galactic waves discussion here:. LaViolette seems to feel strongly that there are galactic waves which could influence dramatically one's DNA (potential for mutation by knocking out genes for instance). But that influence doesn't happen until the "energy wave" actually hits structure here on earth, "in the moment".

    "In the moment" is the key word group. And proximity to the molecules (closeness) making up the DNA from where influence starts is important for chemical (electron sharing) reactions. That keeps logic grounded in normal "chemistry". Changes don't happen until the structures and energy are in contact or very close proximity..

    In the op, post #1:

    People seeking leadership roles in business, or even those in search of funding for a start-up, may volunteer their DNA test results to demonstrate that they have the right aptitude, leadership capabilities and intelligence for the job.
    The focus of the ComputerWorld article writer appears to be doing a value judgement, apparently feeling by demonstrating 'good genes' could be a criterion for selection, that one member of a group is more or less 'worthy' because of genetics. I personally find that abhorrent; we are more than our 'genes'..

    I can see how chemically in the environment, during childhood, a youngster exposed to chemicals can be challenged.. - it's called studying NeuroDevelopmental Disorders due to environmental chemical assault.. Chemicals diminishing or destroying liver function, kidney function, or glucose utilization can allow for nerves to be damaged in a growing child. A 'DNA' test would not show "worthiness" for a job position. A DNA test may show how well a body was able to withstand chemical assault, when analysis of the rest of the tissues/organs are evaluated. Potentially gene testing could show if one's live body is able to handle intense chemical assaults with statistical comparisons: (such as over-doing alcohol during whining (sp) and dining prospective clients), if that is to be a characteristic to be evaluated for a "company CEO" for instance.. (snicker..)

    A business leader for instance (leadership emphasized), needs more than "genes" to hold a successful role where one's employees look up to them for guidance, stability, and that "role model" stature brings a feeling of accomplishment and success with those about a person like that. Such is a learned skill. Is there some aspect of genetics, about "breeding-in" compassion for instance? Probably, and that may be a part of the overall grooming/training where a "leader" may be able to show that bodies with similar characteristics within her or his genes are capable of learning, and following one's training for a position and maybe would excel in such positions.

    In the OP post #1:
    Genetic testing to glean personal insights is also mainstream. People are interested in what genetic testing reveals about their health and ancestry. Science is certain to unlock more information from these genetic tests as time goes on.

    If businesses come to believe that some employees are born predisposed to leadership, they may be interested in identifying people early in their careers who have the genes that may help them become the next great CEO, CIO or CFO. But one thing businesses can't do is to ask for a blood test.
    Health and Ancestry - Studies saying those with a preponderance for a certain cancer can be located - a BRCA gene mutation puts you at higher risk for breast cancer they say. Does that mean no employee will be hired with that mutation as corporate insurance rates will go up? (an uninsurable employee situation).

    With Ted Kennedy for instance having developed brain cancer, would studies be performed (gene studies) to see if a preponderance for brain cancer exists and therefore such a person not allowed to be a member of Congress?

    Hyundai is doing studies to see if men or woman can be predisposed for "road rage".. (Hyundai says their study shows woman 12% are more likely to exhibit road rage), does that mean their insurance rates will go up? Will they be stereotyped by law officers in any accident, if there was a male and female involved, will the officer be more biased to cite the female with data from that Hyundai study? (see http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencete...ims-study.html). What about a female (or male) trained during driver's education for instance to know what "road rage" triggers are and thereby be able to head-off any warning signs?

    In other words, background history, training, skills are ignored in "gene testing" when using such for evaluation of "job skill" potentials. Those choosing to use DNA testing then as the primary criteria are sorely missing the point of what an "individual" can do.

    That's about it for the OP topic that I feel I can answer, share feelings and thoughts about.

    On your question lcam88, about "geometry influences" from the "stars" (intra-galactic distances, or within the galaxy). I am not able to answer that, nor can I propose a test. We have no way to isolate ourselves from the "experiment" to conduct a test of "in galaxy, and out-of-galaxy", to isolate variables. One needs to isolate variables, and then add one variable at a time to determine a system's parameters (barriers/limits/conditions).

    On the question of Serotonin being able to reach out past short nanometer distances... I mentioned the words "quantum hologram".. Quantum as at the point of prime level of creation using "information" as the instigator of that creation... and hologram, or as a structure template for information to take shape (the blueprint plus the instructions to build)... Serotonin (a "well being" feelings trigger/key) coupled through a quantum hologram should be able to convey over large distances.

    DMT for instance (dimethy-tryptamine), is said to be the "spiritual opening molecule" which exists latent in the brain just waiting to be turned on, to allow one to reach out beyond one's physical limits.. If a meditation being done properly (whatever that means), then is able to activate the brain's DMT molecules, and evoke into a quantum hologram of let's call it "creation", one should have some pretty far reaching perception, maybe data acquisition.. reference to Terence McKenna on this one - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terence_McKenna keeping it simple with the Wiki background..

    Electromagnetically purely charge forces don't reach out over distance, when looking at how space/time is distorted. Gravity does a pretty good distortion of space/time and has a large outreach, but conveying "information" (the quantum) on gravity to express complex molecules doesn't seem to have the bandwidth needed to show fine details, or molecular structure in other words.. So though, we know influence reaches in some way, at large distances, and that then gets back to quantum holograms as being the way to convey fine details at distance..

    Are there civilizations on some star systems many thousands of light years away influencing earth's genetic development - I can't answer that one, wouldn't even know where to start..

    Would "feel good serotonin" be able to be conveyed from one member in a group to another? Keeping it conventional - http://www.tm.org/enlightenment

    Maharishi: “The goal of the Transcendental Meditation technique is the state of enlightenment. This means we experience that inner calmness, that quiet state of least excitation, even when we are dynamically busy.”

    Is it necessary to dissolve stress to experience the state of enlightenment?

    Maharishi: “Yes. And it brings very practical value to life. Even if we forget about ‘enlightenment’ for a moment — maybe that state seems to be inconceivable — still it is our daily experience that the whole value of life is very little if we are tired, if we are stressed.
    And in group meditation, focus upon "feel good" (serotonin rush) - https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...-mind-control/ there is a study mentioned in the article about well focused meditation able to alter brain chemistry, blood chemistry, (neural outcome):

    The biologic benefits of meditation in particular extend well beyond telomere preservation. Earlier work by Carlson found that in cancer patients, mindfulness is associated with healthier levels of the stress hormone cortisol and a decrease in compounds that promote inflammation.
    Back to an earlier post about GROUP RIOT situation - certainly when in a group, within a "riot" one gets the feeling of acting out without cognizant coherent thought... Is it quantum holograms at work? (One brain setting up a resonance in other brains to fight using the quantum hologram negatively for instance).. Or is it an over-abundance of the stress molecule CORTISOL being conveyed through sweat, exhalation, being conveyed to others in the group who then react to the molecule "Cortisol's" presence in their system?

    [..] that elevated cortisol levels interfere with learning and memory, lower immune function and bone density, increase weight gain, blood pressure, cholesterol, heart disease.
    BioChemical testing for one's latent (baseline) cortisol levels plus DNA study may show how well an executive or employee may function under stress, or if they are a potential "rabble rouser"... But one trained in meditation, and using it could very well suppress cortisol, keeping stress to a minimum.. so the "gene study" would be inaccurate as to predictiing one's preponderance to be "trouble" in the workplace for instance..

    Seems to me, those behind doing "gene study" as the measure of potential for job position really don't have a clue on the immense variables involved..

    ==update==

    On the astrology question, the positions of the stars/planets, or constellations present.. I suppose one could look at history when the shapes of astronomical features were observed, remaining fixed, as "stable icons with emotional significance", and would not have varied over time (except for transients such as planets, or asteroids, or comets).

    - Astronomers officially recognize 88 constellations covering the entire sky in the northern and southern hemispheres.

    Background - Our modern constellation system comes to us from the ancient Greeks. There was a description of the constellations as we know them, coming from a poem, called Phaenomena, written about 270 B.C. by the Greek poet Aratus (generally we could say constellations were first named nearly 3000 years ago).

    references: http://www.physics.csbsju.edu/astro/...ation.faq.html

    My gut feeling says, group dynamic quantum hologram is more responsible for outcomes established by the "signs".. Do people see objects, faces, in clouds, or in "star clusters", most certainly. Does that influence behaviour? It seems so. Referencing back to the study mentioned in Scientific American (above), a person motivated can influence their brain chemistry, potentially trigger DNA repair mechanisms, make themselves well (or sick) through a sufficiently dramatic belief system being activated.

    During the periods of Gods in the Heavens, or on Mt. Olympus, where environmental catastrophe could be quite dramatic, a group could very well be influenced by the beliefs, and act out according to the group consensus. And quite possibly the old 'programming' got passed down, through the generations so that there remains a "quantum hologram" about astrology, being effective.. That being the case, the stars/planets/asteroids/conjunctions/alignments hold an effect. Could it be broken, ignored, changed? What holds a quantum hologram in place - people.. beliefs, strong emotion, stories told over and over generation to generation..

    How well can one meditate and re-create one's belief system(s) and linkages to others I think is the question. Would one want to? Dunno..

    http://upge.wn.com/?t=ancientgreece/index35.txt - ancient greece, mythology



    Quote Originally posted by lcam88 View Post
    +1 to topic drift. I'm think I know how to get to a point aligned with the OP Post #1. But first.



    I was thinking light years distances as we expect from constellations we identify in the night sky. And...

    It isn't my hypothesis, astrology has been around for ages. This topic of forms or shapes being defining factor in resonant patterns associated with our biology is something better explained by Dr Ibrahim Karim, a link I shared above is exactly pointing to his research.

    The only other thing I would like to adding to this "soup" is the notion of "strength" or the "reach" of a resonant system being inversely proportional to the square of the distance between the bodies. That happens to be true for electro-magnetics as per a universe defined by relativity. But the reality we live in isn't modeled perfectly by those theoretically. Space isn't a complete vacuum, and electric currents are theorized to connect stellar systems via birkeland current structures if you ask the Electric Universe guys...

    I mention that only to compel thinking about stellar systems and constellations as systems rather than isolated stars in chance alignments...

    Tying this back to the OP:

    If the topic drifting we have endured on this thread is meaningful, I am going to put forth an experiment. Let's suppose we design a building and within the architecture of that building we place spheres of a lightly radioactive element such that the lines that connect these spheres define the atomic shape of serotonin (one example) as you share above. The placement of these spheres should respect the forces between each element in that molecule, the size of the sphere should respect the atomic mass of each element. <shrug/> I suppose the exact criteria on how to design this form should respect modern day knowledge obtained through our exhaustive quantitative science...

    You then sample the serotonin levels of groups of people, they circulate through the building, some groups might stay longer than others, some groups might only enter the fringe portions whereas others might be placed more close to the center. Variations noted...

    After their exposure period we sample serotonin levels again to see if any difference could be observed. Much like a statistical study done by pharmaceuticals for a new drug but designed to test whether the architecture of the shape designed into the space of the building has an observable effect.

    The point being, if shapes as defined by stars in the galaxy where thought to influence people, why can't we create artificial "constellations"?

    Perhaps the test group could give DNA samples... But that only makes sense if you are trying to explain why some people see an effect and others don't...

    The worst case scenario would be not seeing any change in serotonin levels in the sample group. Could it work?
    Last edited by Bob, 21st October 2016 at 18:24.

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    Quote Originally posted by Bob
    I can see how chemically in the environment, during childhood, a youngster exposed to chemicals can be challenged.. - it's called studying NeuroDevelopmental Disorders due to environmental chemical assault.. Chemicals diminishing or destroying liver function, kidney function, or glucose utilization can allow for nerves to be damaged in a growing child. A 'DNA' test would not show "worthiness" for a job position. A DNA test may show how well a body was able to withstand chemical assault, when analysis of the rest of the tissues/organs are evaluated. Potentially gene testing could show if one's live body is able to handle intense chemical assaults with statistical comparisons: (such as over-doing alcohol during whining (sp) and dining prospective clients), if that is to be a characteristic to be evaluated for a "company CEO" for instance.. (snicker..)
    Chemical and/or electromagnetic assault. If you measure the electrical voltage between your two hands and compare it with the amount of power being broadcast in the the atmosphere, between radar, radio, TV and microwave signals, it may be equally fitting to say our environment is electromagnetically polluted as well.

    Quote Originally posted by Bob
    On your question lcam88, about "geometry influences" from the "stars" (intra-galactic distances, or within the galaxy). I am not able to answer that, nor can I propose a test. We have no way to isolate ourselves from the "experiment" to conduct a test of "in galaxy, and out-of-galaxy", to isolate variables. One needs to isolate variables, and then add one variable at a time to determine a system's parameters (barriers/limits/conditions).
    Thanks for answering.

    During the last couple of hours I've identified a couple of flaws in my proposed test... Kinks can be worked out.

    Why do you think isolating ourselves from the "experiment" is necessary? That might sound like an obvious question in light of scientific dogma. But I would hasten to point out how effectively our modern society has sidestepped that requirement (isolation of self in science) by the application of procedures and process used in funding scientific research. Furthermore, as the the principle of isolation of self... lots can be said.

    Lastly I thought it was rather clear we are talking about dynamic systems where the theory of complexity characterizes the very nature of the subject matter. The purpose of the test I've proposed is only designed to "turn up the volume" of a specific quantum hologram that we measure to have "weak" effects in our existence and then observe the whole system of interacting "agents" and notice if the signal had an effect. That touches on the flaw I noticed; we are not trying to create serotonin in the body, we are trying to stimulate the effects of the chemical only.

    Quote Originally posted by Bob
    Electromagnetically purely charge forces don't reach out over distance, when looking at how space/time is distorted. Gravity does a pretty good distortion of space/time and has a large outreach, but conveying "information" (the quantum) on gravity to express complex molecules doesn't seem to have the bandwidth needed to show fine details, or molecular structure in other words.. So though, we know influence reaches in some way, at large distances, and that then gets back to quantum holograms as being the way to convey fine details at distance.
    I'm not sure what you mean to say with this. I would like to clarify something, electric forces and magnetic forces reduce by D^2. ElectroMagnetics was the wrong word I used previously.

    Information or value in a "quantum hologram" can exist in two ways, a quantitative and a qualitative. You probably agree with me that science is mostly interested in quantitative information; when we say the "The plant grew 3 inches in the last week" nothing meaningful is added to the scientific understanding if the phrase where changed to "The plant grew 3 beautiful inches in the last week" or "The plant grew 3 inches in the last beautiful week". We may be able to surmise that plant growth was optimal, or that growing conditions where optimal, but those understandings do not change the way we understand 3 inches or the week long time period. Perspective issue?

    Most of Dr Ibrahim Karims work with BioGeometry falls outside of conventional science for that reason; he is interested in qualitative understanding of observation and measurements he takes. If there is merit to his work the qualitative value of shapes is more important than the quantitative aspects defined by the angles and lengths.

    I think science cannot embrace these ideas as long as isolating ourselves from the "experiment" is necessary. And that is why I even asked the rhetorical question above.

    ADDENDUM

    I think part of the experiment I am suggesting has already been done by Dr Karim. I never associated what he had done to be a manipulation of "gene stimulation" though. His Hepatitis C experiment summary and more is linked below:

    http://awakenedvibrations.com/post/9...n-modern-egypt
    Last edited by lcam88, 21st October 2016 at 20:00. Reason: addendum

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