Space weather threat: you must see this video

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Originally posted by Wind

I'm a vegetarian though.

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There is some serious research that shows cannibalism occurred in Chaco Canyon:

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More than a century ago, American travellers in the Southwest were astounded to find ruined cities and vast cliff dwellings dotting the desert landscape. Surely, they thought, a great civilization had once flourished here. It looked to them as if the people who created it had simply walked away and vanished: the ruins were often littered with gorgeous painted pottery and also contained grinding stones, baskets, sandals hanging on pegs, and granaries full of corn. The Navajo Indians, who were occupying much of the territory where this lost civilization once existed, called them the Anasazi--a word meaning "Ancient Enemy"--and they avoided the ruins, believing they were inhabited by chindi, or ghosts.

Not surprisingly, American archeologists focused on the Anasazi and their great works, and they became the most intensely studied prehistoric culture in North America. A standard picture emerged, based on wide-ranging excavations of sites and on detailed ethnographic research among the Hopi, Zuni, and other Pueblo Indian tribes, who are the Anasazi's descendants. The Anasazi were--so the findings suggested--peaceful farmers, and they attained astonishing results in engineering, architecture, and art. The center of this cultural flowering, from the tenth century to the twelfth, seems to have been Chaco Canyon, New Mexico, a windswept gulch in the apparently endless sagebrush desert of the San Juan Basin. Chaco is marked by immense stone structures, some up to four stories high, called Great Houses. The largest, Pueblo Bonito, contains some six hundred and fifty rooms, and its construction required more than thirty thousand tons of shaped sandstone blocks. The Chaco Anasazi also built hundreds of miles of roads that stretched out from Chaco Canyon across the landscape in arrow-straight lines-an engineering marvel achieved without compass, wheel, or beast of burden. They erected shrines, solar and astronomical observatories, irrigation systems, and a network of signalling stations. They constructed more than a hundred Great Houses outside Chaco Canyon, spreading them over fifty thousand square miles of the Four Comers region of the Southwest. Many of these outlying Great Houses seem to have been connected to Chaco by the radiating pattern of roads. Archeologists today call this cultural explosion "the Chaco phenomenon." But the phenomenon ended abruptly around 1150 A.D., when a vast collapse apparently occurred, and Chaco, along with some of the outlying sites, was largely abandoned.

Equally remarkable was the Chaco society. It seemed to be almost utopian. The Anasazi, the traditional view held, had no absolute rulers, or even a ruling class, but governed themselves through consensus, as the Pueblo Indians do today. They were a society without rich or poor. Warfare and violence were rare, or perhaps unknown. The Anasazi were believed to be profoundly spiritual, and to live in harmony with nature.

As a result, the Anasazi captured the fancy of people outside the archeological profession, and particularly those in the New Age movement, many of whom see themselves as the Anasazi's spiritual descendants. The ruins of Chaco Canyon have long been a New Age mecca, to the point where one of the sites had to be closed, because New Agers were burying crystals and illegally arranging to have their ashes scattered there. During Harmonic Convergence, in 1987, thousands gathered in Chaco Canyon and joined hands, chanting and praying. People have also flocked to the villages of the present-day Pueblo Indians--the Hopi in particular--seeking a spirituality outside Western civilization. The Hopi Themselves, along with other Pueblo Indian descendants of the Anasazi, feel a deep reverence for their prehistoric ancestors.

In 1967, a young physical anthropologist named Christy Turner II began looking at the Anasazi in a new light. He happened to be examining Anasazi teeth in the Museum of Northern Arizona, in Flagstaff, attempting to trace a peculiar trait known as the three-rooted first molar. On the last day of his research, he asked the curator to pull down a large, coffin-shaped cardboard box from a top shelf. The accession record said that the box contained remains from a remote area along Polacca Wash, an arroyo situated below First Mesa, on the Hopi Indian Reservation. The remains had been excavated in 1964 by an archeologist named Alan P. Olson. Turner removed the lid and found himself gazing at a bizarre collection of more than a thousand human bone shards. Thirty years later, when he described the experience to me, the memory was still vivid. "Holy smokes!" he recalled having exclaimed to himself "What happened here? This looks exactly like food trash." The fragments reminded him of broken and burned animal bones that he had found in prehistoric Anasazi garbage mounds. As he looked more closely, another thought struck him. Like many physical anthropologists, he had sometimes done forensic work for police departments. Once, in California, the police had asked him to examine some remains that had been found in the Oakland Hills--a skeleton still wearing a pair of boots. Turner had informed the police that the person had been savagely beaten to death. "Now," he told me, "I could see the same violence done to the Polacca Wash bones."

Turner borrowed the bones from the museum and took them to Arizona State University, where he was a professor. In 1969, he presented his findings in a paper he read at an archeological meeting in Santa Fe. Word of what the paper would say had got around, and the room was packed. Co-written with a colleague of Turner's named Nancy Morris, the paper was entitled "A Massacre at Hopi." Turner informed the audience that the bones belonged to a group of thirty people--mostly women and children--who had been "killed, crudely dismembered, violently mutilated," and that the heads, in particular, showed extreme trauma: "Every skull is smashed, chiefly from the front, and massively so.... The faces were crushed while still covered with flesh." Most of the skulls had received a number of "blunt, heavy, club-like fracturing blows." The bone material had still been "vital" at the time the blows were struck. He wrote, "The many small pieces of unweathered teeth and skulls and postcranial scrap suggest, but do not prove, that the death of these people occurred at the burial site." Moreover, "every skull, regardless of age or sex, had the brain exposed." Heads had been placed on flat rocks and smashed open, apparently so that the brain could be removed.

He went on to say that most of the bones--not only the skulls--also showed marks of cutting, chopping, dismemberment, butchering, "defleshing," and roasting. The larger bones had been broken apart and the marrow scraped out, or, in the case of spongy bone, reamed out. Turner and Morris concluded that the Polacca Wash bones represented "the most convincing evidence of cannibalism in all Southwest archaeology."

Turner said that Olson, the original excavator, had been wrong in assuming that the bones were prehistoric, for Turner had had the bones radiocarbon-dated, and the results had come back as 1580 A.D. plus or minus ninety-five years. Given the date, Turner wondered whether some record or legend might still exist relating what happened.

When he talked with me, he said, "We knew who the bods were. There were a certain number of kids and females. We looked at dental morphology. We got a good match with Hopi. So we asked ourselves, 'What is there in oral tradition about a whole bunch of Hopi being killed and eaten, or massacred, of this age and sex composition, at this date?' "

Turner eventually concluded that the Polacca Wash site was a place known in Hopi legend as the Death Mound. Hopi informants had first described the legend to an anthropologist at the end of the nineteenth century. According to the story, sometime in the late sixteen hundreds a Hopi village called Awatovi had been largely converted to Christianity under the influence of Spanish friars. In addition, the people of Awatovi practiced witchcraft, which the Hopi considered a heinous crime. Eventually, five other Hopi villages decided to purge the tribe of this spiritual stain. An attack was organized by the chief of Awatovi himself, who had become disgusted with his own people. Warriors from the other villages attacked the errant village at dawn, surprising most of the men inside the kivas--sunken ceremonial chambers of the Pueblo Indians--and burning them alive. After killing the men, the warriors captured groups of women and children. As one of these groups was being marched away, a dispute broke out over which village would get to keep the captives. The argument got out of hand. In a rage, the warriors settled it by torturing, killing, and dismembering all the captives. Their bodies were left at a place called Mas-teo'-mo, or Death Mound. "If the stories are correct," the anthropologist who first collected these legends wrote, "the final butchery at Mas-teo'-mo must have been horrible."https://www.prestonchild.com/books/t...eston;art46,62

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Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BLKttn_cS8


The researcher has seen evidence from many other sites.

The cognitive dissonance prevents many from admitting that social veneers are very thin.

IMO there is a deeply embedded willingness to survive at all costs in humans who rule the social landscape. Is it a far stretch from racism, sexism and bullying to actually being willing to kill one another and even eat one another for the "good of survival?"
In the past maybe only those who were willing made the "cut".
Is this part of what created the barbaric nature of human social contexts to date? The survivors were all from the lineages which would cooperate with the slaughter and would rather eat one another than die off?

Some people ARE vegetarian because they will not cooperate with the "slaughter". Knowing that physical existence is not all and like Wind said (don't have the quote) before in a thread, there is more to lose than life... does KNOWING that change us? (asking?)

That surely is something to think about.

"Ideals are peaceful. History is violent.

During times of crisis the most heroic and also most horrifying things are witnessed.

Upholding peace is hard and demanding, resorting to violence and chaos is easy. It's a rather grim thing to understand, but that's our history in a nutshell.

That is not to stay that we humans couldn't overcome our violent tendencies. Perhaps if something were to occur to our collective consciousness in a way that it would get elevated beyond the level where it currently is (which is very low) then we could see much better behaviour. At this stage violence is ensued if things go sour and often they do. That anyone can see just by reading the history books, you don't even have to do that actually. You'll see it everywhere, just in a smaller scale. Individuals and even groups can be harbours of peace, but society at large is still not doing that.

I have my hopes about the future, but also knowing human behaviour I do have my doubts, or should I say realistic expectations. That's something I still struggle with, realistically speaking I don't have much faith in humanity, but I do have faith in many humans.

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Originally posted by Wind

I'm a vegetarian though.

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I'm not, because my body is omnivorous and requires that I consume meat as part of my diet. :p Still, I would rather die than resort to cannibalism, and I also disapprove of the consumption of species that are very closely related to humans, be it biologically or spiritually. For instance, certain cultures hunt and eat monkeys and apes, and I have very strong moral objections to that. A gorilla for instance shares more than 96% of its DNA with humans.

I also object against any kind of food — whether nutritional or recreational — in which human milk is used, because that too brings it ethically close to cannibalism. A mother's milk is intended for her baby, not for the recreational pleasure of adults to whom she isn't even in the slightest related. There have unfortunately already been market experiments over here on account of ice cream made with human milk. :belief:

Lastly, the meat I eat must come from herbivores or omnivores — and in the latter case, the only meat from an omnivore I will eat is ham, and on a rare occasion also a little bit of bacon — and may not come from a carnivore. So I will not eat meat from dogs or cats. Chinese culture for instance considers dogs as consumable, and during World Wars I and II, many people here in Europe — including restaurants — caught and killed stray cats, and then served them up as rabbit. I've been told that it tastes the same, but I don't even like the taste of rabbit meat.

In the late 1990s and early 2000s, certain restaurants over here in Belgium also began serving exotic types of meat, such as kangaroo steaks and slices from a crocodile's tail. I've always refused to even try that. I've always considered kangaroos as a kind of pet animals — even though I know that Australians will disagree, and my Aussie ex used to call them a pest because they ruin crops and people's gardens :p — and crocodiles are carnivores, plus that they're also reptiles. The "lowest" animal category on the evolutionary ladder that I will eat is avian — chicken or turkey, although I've eaten duck once too, and I must say it tasted rather good.

I am very picky on account of food and there is way more that I do not like than that I do like. And that's only my taste. My ethical considerations sit on top of that. ;)

My comment was written tongue in cheek even though I am a vegetarian. My dog reminds me of a small pig so I wonder why I would want to eat pigs either. I like cows too, alive. I don't want to derail the conversation with this topic though. I'm just driven by my own moral compass. Everyone should be their own moral judge of their character and actions. Personally I hate violence and killing, that's that. I could write an essay about violence, but I think that's a topic for another time, another place. I hope no one minds my occasional dark humour, but if it wasn't my sense of humour I would have gone completely nuts a long time ago.

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Originally posted by Wind

That surely is something to think about.

"Ideals are peaceful. History is violent.

During times of crisis the most heroic and also most horrifying things are witnessed.

Upholding peace is hard and demanding, resorting to violence and chaos is easy. It's a rather grim thing to understand, but that's our history in a nutshell.

That is not to stay that we humans couldn't overcome our violent tendencies. Perhaps if something were to occur to our collective consciousness in a way that it would get elevated beyond the level where it currently is (which is very low) then we could see much better behaviour. At this stage violence is ensued if things go sour and often they do. That anyone can see just by reading the history books, you don't even have to do that actually. You'll see it everywhere, just in a smaller scale. Individuals and even groups can be harbours of peace, but society at large is still not doing that.

I have my hopes about the future, but also knowing human behaviour I do have my doubts, or should I say realistic expectations. That's something I still struggle with, realistically speaking I don't have much faith in humanity, but I do have faith in many humans.

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What really disappoints me generally is my observation that you cannot wait until a crisis to prepare for peace.
My experience with various groups is that people are just not interested generally is looking 7 generations removed (to use the expression of some native american tribes). More and more I just see existence from crisis to crisis and the niggling fear (and in some minds HOPE) that all will just collapse. Preppers think they MIGHT be the ones to survive (but what THEN?) and politicians are thinking about elections and their golden parachutes.

Look at someone in the face who thinks herself such a great citizen and so religious and so smart and challenge her and she will think one very rude. That is an easy way to become unpopular. My thought is "It's your children's funeral" because I have no kids and my lineage ends. Isn't the grandchild what one longs to nurture? It is like a lost cause IMO when people actually crave disasters to strike (when it hurts an enemy).

Most people I know (even affluent ones) are thinking form "check to check" and maybe about their children's tuition (but what THEN?). We have had such affleunce and what has "civilization" really done? Is it that I am just cynical but maybe realistic that humans are not capable of the reasoning that will drive US to be the evolutionary winners. Unfortunately without a huge degree of altruistic self awareness and willingness to stand FOR that future when the 7th generation is thriving from all the efforts we make now, the slick and the well endowed humans (with social popularity and seemingly well fed and powerful) are just food for the moon.

Worms are very high protein.

https://media.npr.org/assets/img/201...-s800-c85.jpeg

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Originally posted by Wind

I don't want to derail the conversation with this topic though. I'm just driven by my own moral compass. Everyone should be their own moral judge of their character and actions.

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The fact that discussing (not eating) and meat eating always becomes a verbal fight in threads is telling. Food IS about taste that drives the tongues. People COULD eat grass and worms if it was just for nourishment. I won't keep posting about it either as I consider it all now about what I DO. I DO drink milk and eat cheese and eggs from my chickens. I don't eat worms but know it could be easy to gets me some in my yard. Not a yum for now but who knows?

https://www.outdoorlife.com/blogs/su...d-how-eat-them

Here is another positive thought.....

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Engineer develops method for growing mature, dense food forests in just 10 years
Most of the world we live in today was once forest, our natural habitat for millions of years.

Now surrounded by cities and agriculture, humans are no longer living in their “natural” habitat, argues a forest-building engineer named Shubhendu Sharma.
But we can recreate little chunks of that habitat in just ten years our own backyards, workplaces and public spaces, he explains in the Ted Talk below:


Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjUsobGWhs8


Shubhendu Sharma was an industrial engineer for Toyota hired to offset some of the carbon emissions of the company’s factories.
His solution was to plant mini forests right next door. Since then his company Afforest has helped “build” 75 such forests in 25 cities across the world.
Sharma’s forests grow 10 times faster, are 100 times more biodiverse and 30 times more lush than typical reforestation projects.
He used his model for manufacturing as many cars as possible per square feet of factory space and applied it to growing trees.
His methods enable him to grow a 300-tree forest in the space of 6 parked cars.

Amazingly, the cost of growing a forest is roughly the same as an iPhone.
https://returntonow.net/2018/03/08/1...d-food-forest/

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Originally posted by Nothing

The funny thing about action is it does not solve the problem of readiness if the whole idea behind 'prepping' is making ones' being threadable through the pinhole. That's my personal intuition, backed up by things like a past dream which I shared.... Yeah I know..
Backed up by several things only amounting to hear say. Which is just as useful as any inclinations regards prepping.
But from what I can deduce, no one will get a free ticket. You either can pass through the 'scanners' or you cant.
You want to prep your family with lots of food and guns? Well that may help if you are all good with your soul. But it wont do diddly if not. Those ones, the greedy fearful ones who want to save their lives, will likely just be shot and over run by the 1st few waves of marauders.
I am expecting to see quite a bit of poetry unfold in those sorts of scenarios. You can run but you can't hide kind of thing.
All these people wanting to work out what might happen so they can focus on some way to survive. That is hilarious to me.

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Interesting thought...it could be those are the ones that feel like they 'really' have something to worry about...hmm, of course, why not?

Cannibalism? meh...I can take it or leave it...like most meats I don't really have a driving need for it. Now give me some good beans and I'm happy as a vegetarian clam.

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Originally posted by Maggie

What really disappoints me generally is my observation that you cannot wait until a crisis to prepare for peace.
My experience with various groups is that people are just not interested generally is looking 7 generations removed (to use the expression of some native american tribes). More and more I just see existence from crisis to crisis and the niggling fear (and in some minds HOPE) that all will just collapse. Preppers think they MIGHT be the ones to survive (but what THEN?) and politicians are thinking about elections and their golden parachutes.

Look at someone in the face who thinks herself such a great citizen and so religious and so smart and challenge her and she will think one very rude. That is an easy way to become unpopular. My thought is "It's your children's funeral" because I have no kids and my lineage ends. Isn't the grandchild what one longs to nurture? It is like a lost cause IMO when people actually crave disasters to strike (when it hurts an enemy).

Most people I know (even affluent ones) are thinking form "check to check" and maybe about their children's tuition (but what THEN?). We have had such affleunce and what has "civilization" really done? Is it that I am just cynical but maybe realistic that humans are not capable of the reasoning that will drive US to be the evolutionary winners. Unfortunately without a huge degree of altruistic self awareness and willingness to stand FOR that future when the 7th generation is thriving from all the efforts we make now, the slick and the well endowed humans (with social popularity and seemingly well fed and powerful) are just food for the moon.

Worms are very high protein.

https://media.npr.org/assets/img/201...-s800-c85.jpeg



The fact that discussing (not eating) and meat eating always becomes a verbal fight in threads is telling. Food IS about taste that drives the tongues. People COULD eat grass and worms if it was just for nourishment. I won't keep posting about it either as I consider it all now about what I DO. I DO drink milk and eat cheese and eggs from my chickens. I don't eat worms but know it could be easy to gets me some in my yard. Not a yum for now but who knows?

https://www.outdoorlife.com/blogs/su...d-how-eat-them

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Thanks for 'fleshing out' the notion I was alluding to.
I had a mate say he would eat the dead. I was shocked at knowing that, and he was almost a little ridiculing of me saying I dont desire life that much that I would defile my morals. Of course one would expect that once the already dead were eaten, people would then start being killed... or well it is a slippery slope.

But yes, that was all really a minor part of the point, regards the eager preppers. And yes, such topics will always draw out absolution.
The same with such questions as "What would you do if you were the ruler of the world for a day or week" type questions.
Folk who may well speak out normally for the down trodden, will come up with all types of retributions and new laws and 'benevolent' dictatorial schemes.
Or they will pamper themselves with power and luxury..
The disease of power and responsibility.
Often to me, it seems that the people who are so very keen to survive and prepare in such over the tops ways, are perhaps going to be the types who will then feel they have inherited the right to be lords of the new world, and they will likely be some of the first to try an be a leader in a new community, and they will probably begin employing the same old techniques of control as the old world. Very dangerous people potentially.
Of course there are people who a just prudent and organised and I am not totally anti it all, just raising the points and the points between the lines.
If there IS a chance for the population to be cleansed of archetypes and old ways, then those sorts are the types who will be effectively smuggling the human disease through the aperture. And if that were the case, I would suggest that that would not actually be the aperture, and the real aperture would come later. There would be several stages, the first aftermath stage being where all those 'usual suspects' loot and shoot each other. Done in quite a headshakingly sad way, the shelves will be stripped bare by selfish panic, then they will all shoot each other (in the USA anyway) then all the products from the shelves will still be un touched, but in dead people's stashes, I am picking that then a second wave of looters, called ferreters, will go about collecting this stuff up, and ferret hunters will try and rob those ones. The cycle is likely to happen a few more times, same food supplies, multiple squabbles over it.
Then you will get to the stage of those who were prepared-ish and went into hiding for long enough for all that previous lot to kill each other.. and they will come out of hiding to try and restock and it is here where they may well form alliances, but only after quite a bit of paranoia over others. At that point, it will become like the wild west, factions and local war lords.
The whole thing could take a considerable amount of time to play out.
Dragging the whole thing out. Half sigh, half chuckle.

As a kid we learned about the Donner pass and the family that ended up resorting to cannibalism to survive.

In the pepper world there is a name for it, long pork, because that's how we supposedly taste.:vom::belief:

I'd arm myself primarily for the purpose of defending myself against those who decide to take what they want. There will without doubt be people who want to become warlord types. Or gang leader types.

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Originally posted by Dreamtimer

As a kid we learned about the Donner pass and the family that ended up resorting to cannibalism to survive.

In the pepper world there is a name for it, long pork, because that's how we supposedly taste.:vom::belief:

I'd arm myself primarily for the purpose of defending myself against those who decide to take what they want. There will without doubt be people who want to become warlord types. Or gang leader types.

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Nothing said

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it seems that the people who are so very keen to survive and prepare in such over the tops ways, are perhaps going to be the types who will then feel they have inherited the right to be lords of the new world, and they will likely be some of the first to try an be a leader in a new community, and they will probably begin employing the same old techniques of control as the old world.

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I am neither prepping with stuff or have a gun. It really does not interest me at all to just survive. What I plan is no huge catastrophes, the continuation of chaotic nodes in spots and the wake up. The sense I make is that permaculture and knowing the basics of human skills returns art and craft to the fore front of importance. The experiment with mass "production" will be abandoned for the continuity of hand made and creative brain generated skills.

We need a massive change of perspective that is looking from a much larger context. It is not about prepping to save what we have. It is about abandoning what we have for something much better. Sure, preppers learn "survival" skills but IMO not "thrival" skills.

This is not what we may establish IN THE MIDST of crisis so IMO the realization that we choose to create the foundation we live on is needed. now while we have the freedom. We are IMO refusing to achknowledge that our own thinking and actions are stupid. The whole focus on consumption and "gadgets" along with mass production to suit the machine DOES NOT SERVE US. Who accepts this ridiculous way of life? It's US ourselves.

It is so POSSIBLE to do a whole new "thing" because we have the "low" tech knowledge (tech that can be done by hand in one's own home and workshop) right now to follow a different path NOW and one generation is all it needs to establish. I can see the vision so clearly.

I choose the road with the low tech that stabilizes us because we can carry it with us in migrations as the ancients could. This means we learned something important and need not be repeating the past.
If the artificial social world does devolve to repeat the past war lords and serfs, then THAT means the cycle we have deplored was recreated AGAIN.
IMO we are talking about this pictogram.

http://www.crystalinks.com/hopiprophecyrock.jpg

http://www.crystalinks.com/hopiprophrockbw.jpg

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Near Oraibi, Arizona, there is a petroglyph known as Prophecy Rock which symbolizes many Hopi prophecies. Its interpretation is:

The large human figure on the left is the Great Spirit. The bow in his left hand represents his instructions to the Hopi to lay down their weapons. The vertical line to the right of the Great Spirit is a time scale in thousands of years. The point at which the great Spirit touches the line is the time of his return.
The "life path" established by the Great Spirit divides into the lower, narrow path of continuous Life in harmony with nature and the wide upper road of white man's scientific achievements. The bar between the paths, above the cross, is the coming of white men; the Cross is that of Christianity. The circle below the cross represents the continuous Path of Life.

The four small human figures on the upper road represent, on one level, the past three worlds and the present; on another level, the figures indicate that some of the Hopi will travel the white man's path, having been seduced by its glamour.

The two circles on the lower Path of Life are the "great shaking of the earth" (World Wars One and Two).

The swastika in the sun and the Celtic cross represent the two helpers of Pahana, the True White Brother.

The short line that returns to the straight Path of Life is the last chance for people to turn back to nature before the upper road disintegrates and dissipates. The small circle above the Path of Life, after the last chance, is the Great Purification, after which corn will grow in abundance again when the Great Spirit returns. And the Path of Life continues forever...

The Hopi shield in the lower right corner symbolizes the Earth and the Four-Corners area where the Hopi have been reserved. The arms of the cross also represent the four directions in which they migrated according to the instructions of the Great Spirit.

The dots represent the four colors of Hopi corn, and the four racial colors of humanity.
http://www.crystalinks.com/hopi2.html

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In the event of earth change crisis, people who have a strong sense of community ethics are much more able to manage well. I invision a new earth community where all abide in peace because we know it works. It feels sad that this is not what I see appreciated at the moment. I don't believe I am responsible for the confusion. I am responsible for my actions towards my choice. Here is a great example of ethics that I just ran across:

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This is the most recent research article by the Ghost . . . a Mvskoke-Creek Keeper in Alabama. It describes cultural practices among the Mvskoke-Creeks during the 1700s and 1800s. As most of you are aware, the Creek Confederacy was composed of many ethnic groups, which brought with them their own traditions. At least twice, even the Chickasaw were members of the Creek Confederacy. Over time, these traditions mixed to become what the Ghost is describing below. Something like 25,000 Creeks from South Carolina and eastern Georgia never joined the most recent Creek Confederacy, or else parted ways, when a mixed-blood Tory in Alabama became Principal Chief during the latter stages of the American Revolution. Much of my research, nowadays, is devoted to determining what these older traditions were. The Editor



Q & A WITH GHOST DANCER, CREEK INDIAN WISDOM KEEPER
Q: Can you please shine a light on crimes and punishments for murder, theft, and adultery, and how they were handled by those peoples who lived according to the old ways. Please also explain how changes and misconceptions came about over time, especially as relates to the punishment of women for adultery by cutting off the tip of the nose. How were men punished for adultery?

A: Much has been written by non-Native observers about the ways of the Creeks, but little has been written by traditional Creeks who fully understand the nuances of the ancient culture. To even begin to understand the old ways, one must first understand two fundamental basics that have been so watered down for generations that they have lost their meaning or been forgotten.

The Blood Laws may be seen as the Constitution or Supreme Law the Mvskoke, Mvskoge lived by. These laws were just and were applied as needed to guide every aspect of community life, including crimes and punishments.


Our society was a true Matriarchy. You must get used to the understanding of this. It means that women were in actual control and were the power of our nation! It does not mean that benevolent male leaders graciously allowed the input of the women in decision making.


As most people understand, we were a matrilineal society: Our clan was determined by our mother’s blood clan, not our father’s. Clan mothers ruled with absolute authority over their clan. Each clan had its own clan mother. But understand also: The clan mothers decided what was best for the people – not the mekko! The mekko was only mekko because the clan mothers gave him that power!

Now also get used to the idea and fact of this as well: the more powerful in status a woman was, the more she had. This includes how many husbands she had. If a man could provide for them, he could have more than one wife, but women could have more than more one husband also. Why? Because of the power of her bloodline, she wanted more children for her clan. Making her clan stronger and more powerful added to their status as well. To truly understand our ways, you must first open your mind and forget all the European influences, customs and beliefs you have been taught.

Our women knew their power and enjoyed it. They were not ashamed of their sexuality and their unique ability to produce new life. The Europeans were a Patriarchy in which women held little status unless it came through her husband’s favor. European and American men could not understand or accept the Native’s matriarchal society and saw it as a threat to their beliefs and control over women.

Amongst our people, all land was controlled by the women, as were our homes. Men owned nothing other than their personal items, weapons and tools. Not even a mekko. A mekko was simply the best man chosen by the clan mothers, who could lead the warriors and speak for the people in behalf of the clan mothers. In seriousness, he was no more than a great general or war leader, or a great leader in peace time when the safety and governing of the town fell to his responsibility. The concepts of the mekko being tantamount to a king came from the other cultural practices. It was never part of traditional Creek culture.

The Seven Foundations of our Blood Laws were: Honor, Respect, Courage, Honesty, Compassion, Humbleness, and Love.

Judgments and punishments for all crimes, and resolutions for all problems were decided by the clan mothers. No mekko decided the blood laws. This was done by the clan mothers only. The mekko was responsible for making sure that the decisions of the clan mothers were carried out. But understand this: The punishments always fit the crime, and always the seven (7) Foundations of the Blood Laws had to be applied.

Banishment – separation from the life of the community – was the punishment for many misdeeds. Depending on the circumstances of each particular case, banishment could be for 6 months, 1 year, 2 years, 5 years or forever.

Punishment was swift and harsh, but even murder was a forgivable crime if it was for just cause. It could be that the guilty party would undergo terrible punishment and then be required to take the place of the one murdered to fulfill his family responsibilities.

It goes against our traditional beliefs and blood laws to keep hate or anger in our hearts. We must release it lest it contaminates and poisons our spirit, body and homes. Therefore, even when we went to war, it was for one purpose – to balance the scale. Then the fight was over as far as we were concerned. Not so with the Europeans.

Regarding theft: only the theft of a sacred object could cause much of a ruckus. If someone’s personal items were stolen, the clan mothers would have the guilty one beaten and punished, and the items returned or compensated for with interest.

According to the Blood Laws, once a person has been punished and the issue has been settled by the clan mothers, never again is this matter spoken of or held against the person who committed the offense. To do so would violate our beliefs that holding bad feelings corrupts and poisons the town, band, tribe or village and individual bodies, hearts and spirits.

The European’s Systematic Annihilation of an Ancient Culture

After the Europeans had thoroughly influenced the white towns long enough, someone like me, a red-stick who holds to the traditional beliefs and practices, would be charged as a witch or spell-caster because his or her beliefs and practices did not conform to what they believed or were taught.

So, understand that what you have heard or read in the past was seen or documented through the filter of a totally different world view that never really understood the traditional beliefs and practices of the Native Peoples.

Now, about the cutting of a woman’s nose for adultery. That never happened in the real old days. This punishment only came into play after the Europeans came in. Creek women had liberties that the Europeans could not fathom. European women were not free, nor did they have high status in the European beliefs or cultures. The European’s teachings and religious beliefs were used to try to knock down the matriarch-dominant status of the people when the ministers started teaching about the “sin” of adultery in the white towns.

This didn’t happen all at once. Adultery only became an issue with the Creeks when women began selling their bodies to the Europeans in return for goods they wanted. If caught, their noses were cut by law, but they were not put to death. And yes, for a woman to sell herself back then could not be understood by any clan mother. Since a clan was always there to help a clan member, especially a woman, no person went hungry or without. A clan mother would never allow that. In any town you went to, even in other tribes or bands, any member of your clan that lived there was required to help you in every way. That is another of the blood laws which assures that clan members always have a place to sleep, food and clothing as well.

Otherwise, under normal circumstances, a woman could not be charged with adultery. A married woman could easily divorce her husband. If she didn’t want her him any more, she just placed his clothes and moccasins outside the house. This told everyone, the marriage was over between the two of them.

If a man was caught violating his beloved’s honor, however, she could demand his testicles be burnt if she wanted or he could be beaten by her clan. He would suffer terrible manhood tortures in his groin area if found guilty. But as I said, the punishment would be up to the woman and her clan mother and the females of her clan.

Now don’t misunderstand this, unless the wife divorced him, an adulterer was still responsible for providing meat from the hunt and to help take care of the fields and gardens. Responsibility for the children fell mostly on the mother’s clan. The only way a man could divorce his wife was for his clan mother to arranged it.

Blood Laws Governed Every Aspect of Life

Some examples of basic Blood Laws:

Everyone to look after all elders, and the children especially. Our elders are beloved ones who have such knowledge and gifts to teach to our young and adult alike. Our children are our future. We must protect them and help them in their path.
That every member of each clan looks out for their clan members. Help them and even discipline them when it is needed. No member is to do without or be in need while other members are okay.
No member of the nation can be turned away when needing help (physically, materially, spiritually, emotionally, or any other way) by a town, tribe, band or village. The clan mother of each clan will is in charge of collecting, storing, distributing all food or materials for the clan. Many times, she oversees this or appoints another she is grooming to become a clan mother.
Each member of the town, village, band, or tribe must work in the communal fields of the food supply. No matter their rank. Yes, even clan mothers, mekkos and beloved ones. This puts their love, energy, prayers, sweat, back into the mother earth, and into all the plant people that are being cared for. These fields belong to the people, not just one person. Each clan or each family can, and usually do, have their own garden behind their home as well.
No person can be harmed who comes to a white town, band, village, tribe of their own free will to speak, trade, negotiate, or seek shelter. Even if this person is an enemy of the people. This is a peace sanctuary.
No person may give away, trade, sell, or any such form, any property that belongs to the people or clan.
No sacred areas can be violated by any outsider, nor are they allowed to see or cross these sacred areas.
No person shall conduct any business of selling or trading during any religious ceremony.
All life is respected and no person takes more from the bounty of the land than they need to live. Nothing is wasted.
Only those qualified who hold knowledge in certain areas were ever allowed to conduct religious ceremonies, to administer medicines or perform surgeries.
Only those with the knowledge and experience are authorized to handle and prepare the body of any person that has taken the journey to the next life.
Every child is a precious gift. Every member is duty and honor bound to help, protect, and see to the well-being of each child. This also applies to every elder, those who are injured, sick, and such. Every warrior is expected to help provide fish, meat, hides and such to those in need. Any warrior, who fails to do this is violating the blood law.
Further insights:

Most folks are not aware of how the Creek Confederation was formed, for what purpose, and how powerful this alliance was. Our people’s strength was our religion and our working with other nations as one.

When we battled another nation, we didn’t take their lands, people, or make them practice our beliefs etc. – we made them our allies! They kept their language, religious practices, leaders, everything. The only thing we required was that they be our ally, and when they had anyone attack them, we would come and fight with them and make the attackers pay. They in turn must come to our aid when we needed them.

Unlike Europeans who, when defeating someone in battle, took their people as slaves, killed their leaders, and outlawed their beliefs, religion, languages and such, we shared in trade, arts, crafts, ceremonies and knowledge. We practiced the Blood Laws and applied the Seven Foundations: Honor, Respect, Courage, Honesty, Compassion, Humbleness, and Love, in all these matters.

We intermarried and strengthened our gene pool keeping it from becoming too closely related. As required by our blood laws, clan mothers must check the blood lines of anyone and everyone who is to be married so that certain blood lines are not crossed. Certain clans were related so they could not intermarry.

The blood laws forbade the taking of any woman sexually by force, even an enemy or captive. Even though they are not members of the tribe or nation, all women were considered sacred and must be respected as such. A captive could become adopted by the people if she or he chose to. Then they could marry as our laws allowed and when adopted, they would become a full member, not thought of as an adopted outsider as some other cultures did.

When I hear of all the claims by Europeans that the women of their people were violated during an attack, or raid, or war, I know that is an outright lie, for it goes against the very basics of our people’s beliefs. Remember this: All war, raids, or attacks were conducted under religious guidance. So please understand that all warriors were bound to abide by these laws. Nor were captured women sexually violated. That could not happen either. Just because rape was common practice among the Europeans, they assumed it would apply to our people as well.

Always, these accusations were spoken to stir up the populations by those in charge who had ulterior motives. What better way for the European traders and speculators and those who governed as well, to get men angry and stirred up, than to claim that their women had been raped and tortured to death by brutal savages? The fact is, that was never, ever true. If a warrior acted even, anyway near like that, he would be harshly punished by his own family and clan.

Just like the common practice of spreading smallpox through contaminated blankets, inflicting guilt, undermining the natural honor and discipline of the Native people, and promoting heightened fears were all just part of the ultimate scheme to control and get them out of the way in order to steal their land so rich in natural resources.

Most people have no clue about the true way we lived, our matriarchy, or the religious practices which controlled every aspect of our lives. I’m not saying there were not bad apples. There are bad apples in every race, culture, and nation in the world, but among our people, those were dealt with swiftly and severely.

When the people all lived by the blood laws, crime as we understand it, was extremely rare. There were only certain crimes that carried horrifying death sentences automatically.

The murder of, or sexually harming a child, or any elder, or holy person.
Desecration of any burial grounds, sacred mounds, sacred grounds, sacred fire or any sacred items or objects.
Rape or attempted rape of any female.
Now, as we know, history as written by the victors, never tells the full truth. In the case of the Creeks, the Europeans and Americans did an excellent job of “divide and conquer” – a divide that lasts even unto this day.

From the Red Stick perspective, over time, leaders in the upper red towns saw how the Europeans undermined and destroyed the age-old balance of the matriarchal way of life in the lower white towns. They felt the hunger caused by the overkill of deer and other game to satisfy the European thirst for hides – the blood laws about taking only what was needed were broken, the balance destroyed in the white towns. They saw the great forests cut down and the wood shipped to Europe at great profit.

The Red Sticks were branded as fearsome and hostile because they chose not to sit by and allow this to happen to their people. They refused to allow the Christian schools or religions taught in their towns and lands. They refused to just step aside and allow unscrupulous manipulators, speculators and governments to destroy their way of life and steal their land. This is what really caused the Red Stick Wars.

Now days, the traditional beliefs are almost totally forgotten in their original form. Too much has been mixed with European beliefs and customs and even with other Native tribal customs. For those who choose to follow the old ways, our Spirit lives on in the Blood Laws we honor and faithfully keep.

Respectfully,

Ghost

Note: For more than 40 years, Ghost Dancer has lived by and taught the old ways. As a young man, Ghost was blessed to find traditional Creek mentors and teachers, Phillip Deere and Billy Proctor, among the spiritual leaders of the American Indian Movement protests in South Dakota in the 1970s. The influence of these men was instrumental in guiding Ghost to become a strong spiritual leader in his own right, and a lifelong activist for religious freedom for all Native people.https://peopleofonefire.com/crime-pu...the-ghost.html

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Originally posted by Dreamtimer

As a kid we learned about the Donner pass and the family that ended up resorting to cannibalism to survive.

In the pepper world there is a name for it, long pork, because that's how we supposedly taste.:vom::belief:

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There, you're doing it again! :p

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Originally posted by Dreamtimer

I'd arm myself primarily for the purpose of defending myself against those who decide to take what they want. There will without doubt be people who want to become warlord types. Or gang leader types.

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That's the exact same thing as what I would do. I don't currently own any (real) firearms, but if anything were to go seriously wrong and there would no longer be any law enforcement, then I'd make sure that I'd get me a firearm, and I would use it to fend off anyone who either plans to have myself (or anyone else) for dinner, or who would feel like taking advantage of the situation in other ways to enrich or empower themselves at the cost of innocent people. :hmm:

Here's Aragorn in a post-apocalyptic world, perhaps you'll meet him down The Road.... ;)

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Originally posted by Wind

Here's Aragorn in a post-apocalyptic world, perhaps you'll meet him down The Road.... ;)

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I don't look that old yet, but yes, I know it's Viggo. ;)

I admire your attitude and clarity Maggie. I kind of have the same aspirations towards such scenarios, but cant remain positive in terms of hoping others would be in numbers.
It seems like the ones who will indeed go and fetch a weapon are in high numbers. I see it as reactionary and of the programmed present mind. I have one friend who has a mountain of food and a small armoury. Several others claim they will go down and ram raid a gun shop if society falls. I each time mentioned they would be driving in convoy with others doing the same thing belatedly, and walk into a gunfight with awaiting police or militia who were expecting them.
I see purchasing a gun as a signal of intent and attitude. It would be hard to not think that way I guess, but in my opinion it makes someone part of the problem. I have no dependants so it is easier to get over that hurdle, and I would rather die defencelessly. I have the attitude that even if there was a gun laying on the ground beside me I would not pick it up. I see those altercations as the setting of the scene. If you were to shoot someone who was also armed, it goes a way to being in ones estimation, justification. Shooting an unarmed person however is a different task for someone to deal with and if it had to be, I would much prefer to be the one shot in that arrangement, and would see it as a positive contribution, albeit unfortunate.

Your posts Maggie... and others, have helped to refocus a few things on the matter, much gratitude.