THE MARS UNDERGROUND - Full Documentary (Director's Cut)

Description:

"Leading aerospace engineer and Mars Society President Dr. Robert Zubrin has a dream. He wants to get humans to the planet Mars in the next ten years. Now, with the advent of a revolutionary plan, Mars Direct, Zubrin shows how we can use present day technology and natural resources on Mars to make human settlement possible. But can he win over the skeptics at NASA and the wider world?

The Mars Underground is a landmark documentary that follows Zubrin and his team as they try to bring this incredible dream to life. Through spellbinding animation, the film takes us on a daring first journey to the Red Planet and envisions a future Mars teeming with life and terraformed into a blue world.

A must-see experience for anyone concerned for our global future and the triumph of the human spirit."

Duration:

1 hour 14 minutes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcTZvNLL0-w

Hmm... One thing which surprises me is that nobody in this documentary touches upon the fact that Mars has no discernible magnetosphere. Even if it were possible to terraform Mars, without a magnetosphere like the one we have here on Earth — which acts as a natural forcefield — it would gradually start losing its human-breathable atmosphere again due to the constant bombardment with cosmic radiation and solar flares.

Also, if life were to be ported to Mars from Earth — whether it be human colonists, animals or plants — it would start evolving differently over time due to the fact that the surface gravity on Mars is only about one third of gravity here on Earth, and that Mars has two moons, which means that the tidal cycles would also be very different there. And lastly, of course, one Martian year is 687 Earth days, and a Martian day is 24 Earth hours and 37 minutes.

In addition to all of the above, Mars also has some very violent sandstorms — especially when it's closest to the sun — which can span the whole planet and which could be highly devastating for any human expedition on Mars. We know what hurricanes and tornadoes can do here on Earth, and that's already without that there are a few thousand tons of sand being swirled around.

There's a lot that's not being addressed in this documentary, and that's a shame. :hmm:

Aragorn we have been to Mars we may even have a base there . There is a picture of a underground city on Mars which Bob Dean Project Camelot shows .

Bob Dean's presentation, European Exopolitics Summit, Barcelona, 25 July 2009
46.00 minute for Underground Mars City

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ngvIP0Za9M

Henry Deacon and Bob Dean Project Camelot talking about mars .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kqlTJlDw-4

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Aragorn

And lastly, of course, one Martian year is 687 Earth days, and a Martian day is 24 Earth hours and 37 minutes.

---

This last one might be the easiest to overcome, since the circadian rhythm in humans at least is flexible enough to cover the day/night cycle of Mars already.

Quote:

---

The circadian rhythms of humans can be entrained to slightly shorter and longer periods than the Earth's 24 hours. Researchers at Harvard have shown that human subjects can at least be entrained to a 23.5-hour cycle and a 24.65-hour cycle (the latter being the natural solar day-night cycle on the planet Mars).

---

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circadian_rhythm

The quote is from Wikipedia but the source they cite is actually a study done between researchers from Harvard, Duke and the University of Colorado:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1934931/

Quote:

---

Abstract

Human expeditions to Mars will require adaptation to the 24.65-h Martian solar day-night cycle (sol), which is outside the range of entrainment of the human circadian pacemaker under lighting intensities to which astronauts are typically exposed. Failure to entrain the circadian time-keeping system to the desired rest-activity cycle disturbs sleep and impairs cognitive function. Furthermore, differences between the intrinsic circadian period and Earth's 24-h light-dark cycle underlie human circadian rhythm sleep disorders, such as advanced sleep phase disorder and non-24-hour sleep-wake disorders. Therefore, first, we tested whether exposure to a model-based lighting regimen would entrain the human circadian pacemaker at a normal phase angle to the 24.65-h Martian sol and to the 23.5-h day length often required of astronauts during short duration space exploration. Second, we tested here whether such prior entrainment to non-24-h light-dark cycles would lead to subsequent modification of the intrinsic period of the human circadian timing system. Here we show that exposure to moderately bright light (∼450 lux; ∼1.2 W/m2) for the second or first half of the scheduled wake episode is effective for entraining individuals to the 24.65-h Martian sol and a 23.5-h day length, respectively. Estimations of the circadian periods of plasma melatonin, plasma cortisol, and core body temperature rhythms collected under forced desynchrony protocols revealed that the intrinsic circadian period of the human circadian pacemaker was significantly longer following entrainment to the Martian sol as compared to following entrainment to the 23.5-h day. The latter finding of after-effects of entrainment reveals for the first time plasticity of the period of the human circadian timing system. Both findings have important implications for the treatment of circadian rhythm sleep disorders and human space exploration.

---

It seems that building structures into natural formations and underground would be the simplest solution to most of these problems. Then the atmosphere could be contained, heat and energy in general could be better conserved, and weather on the surface would be mostly irrelevant. If we could get cold fusion or some other self-contained source of energy on the market it'd be a lot easier, since of course no one is going to be shipping gas or oil to Mars and sunlight and wind may be erratic and a pain to maintain, dust and temperature extremes in exposed equipment on the surface and all that.

I tend to agree with Jonsnow though that there are already human settlements on Mars. Just as Europeans, Africans, Asians and Pacific Islanders were coming to the Americas way before Columbus, and it was eventually hidden, I think in the same way there is a lot going on in space that is hidden, and in the future they'll plant a flag and claim that whoever planted it was the first person, etc. etc. And I have a feeling that in the big picture, we'd only be returning to Mars.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by jonsnow

Aragorn we have been to Mars we may even have a base there . There is a picture of a underground city on Mars which Bob Dean Project Camelot shows .

[...]

---

I am aware of that, my friend, but this documentary follows the academic/mainstream approach to space exploration, and therefore, my comments in post #2 on this thread only reflect the documentary and the topics that these mainstream scientists (surprisingly) did not touch upon. ;)

---

Regarding the duration of a day on Mars...:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by bsbray

This last one might be the easiest to overcome, since the circadian rhythm in humans at least is flexible enough to cover the day/night cycle of Mars already. [...]

---

Oh, I know. My own circadian rhythm constantly shifts compared to the 24-hour cycle we have here on Earth. If I go to sleep at exactly the same time every day, then I find myself lying awake longer every day, and also waking up later again the next day. I think that the human circadian rhythm could be highly flexible. Not infinitely flexible, but certainly flexible enough to deal with the day-and-night cycle on Mars. But that still doesn't make Mars into a hospitable environment yet, of course. :p

Quote:

---

Originally posted by bsbray

It seems that building structures into natural formations and underground would be the simplest solution to most of these problems. Then the atmosphere could be contained, heat and energy in general could be better conserved, and weather on the surface would be mostly irrelevant. If we could get cold fusion or some other self-contained source of energy on the market it'd be a lot easier, since of course no one is going to be shipping gas or oil to Mars and sunlight and wind may be erratic and a pain to maintain, dust and temperature extremes in exposed equipment on the surface and all that.

I tend to agree with Jonsnow though that there are already human settlements on Mars.

---

Oh, I would agree with that as well, but you have to keep something in mind here... First of all, Bob Dean himself has never been to Mars. He got that information from Arthur "Henry Deacon" Neumann, who in turn claims to have indeed been on Mars, but Neumann has also already stated that, due to the technology involved with the so-called jump rooms, this base on Mars could easily have existed at another time — e.g. some point in the distant future — or perhaps even on another time line altogether. All he says he remembers about that is that the constant travelling back and forth made him very disoriented and physically ill, necessitating him to be on a certain neurologically prescribed medication for years in order to alleviate the pain, which eventually — I believe — even caused him to become addicted to it.

That is, of course, provided that he was telling the truth, because just as was the case with Dan "Burisch" Craine, Arthur Neumann made his appearance in the alternative community as a whistleblower in cooperation with Bill Ryan and Kerry Cassidy, and then he disappeared again, only to briefly resurface again years later — this time without the mustache, so I didn't even recognize him at first — and to then once again vanish from the public view. He also seemed to divulge very little information about the jump rooms themselves and about the conditions on Mars, and I have the feeling that he did not really emotionally endorse the information he provided. In other words, it's not unthinkable that he was spreading deliberate disinformation because he would have been ordered to do so, while at the same time his conscience wasn't feeling comfortable about it.

I don't know. Really, I just don't know. But what I do know is that I've learned my lesson on account of taking any of these so-called whistleblowers at face value. Once again — and I don't wish to derail this thread into yet another criticism thread on account of Bill Ryan — you have to look at that information as from whom it comes. Neither Bill Ryan nor Kerry Cassidy have a particularly outstanding track record on account of the whistleblowers they present as credible. And I will even go so far as to say that I'm not entirely certain about Bob Dean's credibility either. There's just something about his body language and his style of talking that doesn't agree with me. It's like he has rehearsed it very well and like he's consciously trying to influence the opinion of the listener. He is very much aware — too aware, I would say — that there's a camera pointed at him. Note that I'm not saying that he would be a liar. It's just that I have my considerations regarding his demeanor on camera, and to myself, these considerations undermine his credibility. So I'm keeping the jury out on him — with all respect for the stamina he still musters at his age.

:flag:

Someone whose credibility I do on the other hand have no problems with whatsoever — and never did — is former US Army Sergeant Clifford Stone. He's about as legitimate as it gets, and of this I am absolutely convinced. That man doesn't have a shred of attitude or self-importance about him, and I can't discern a single twitch or other sign that he would be lying about anything at all.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Aragorn

Oh, I would agree with that as well, but you have to keep something in mind here... First of all, Bob Dean himself has never been to Mars. He got that information from Arthur "Henry Deacon" Neumann, who in turn claims to have indeed been on Mars, but Neumann has also already stated that, due to the technology involved with the so-called jump rooms, this base on Mars could easily have existed at another time — e.g. some point in the distant future — or perhaps even on another time line altogether.

---

I don't even know what Bob Dean says because I've never watched him. When I say I think we've already been on Mars, and both in modern and ancient times, I'm basing that on a variety of other information from several other people and sources. There are some odd facts from ancient history here on Earth that provide some circumstantial evidence for the case to be made. A little more solidly, there are photos of the surface of Mars that show anomalies with regular geometries (other than the famous face and more difficult to explain) and I also take corroborating double-blind remote viewing data from multiple viewers as evidence (the Farsight Institute has provided that, with results that indicate modern military/engineering operations at ancient ruins on Mars -- again all "in the blind" and with multiple viewers). The idea of a planetary-scale catastrophe ending any Martian civilization doesn't seem to contradict evidence of severe trauma to the surface of Mars and its atmosphere either, so that's another piece of circumstantial evidence to fit with the rest.

I've grown to distrust whistleblowers too for obvious reasons. I don't have the time to try to vet everybody so I'm afraid I have to just throw the baby out with the bath water on that one and let other people worry about it. You'll notice none of the things I mention above rely on "whistleblower" testimony. I don't really even want it anymore, except maybe just for a lead for ideas to try verify by other means. :p

Quote:

---

Originally posted by bsbray

I don't even know what Bob Dean says because I've never watched him.

---

Well, just to get a rough understanding of what I'm talking about, you should watch at least (part of) one of his interviews, I think. ;)

Basically, he's a retired Command Sergeant Major from the US Army, who was stationed at SHAPE — the Supreme Headquarters of the Allied Powers in Europe, i.e. NATO HQ — first in Paris, and then after they moved, in Brussels. In just about every interview, he speaks of his experiences there, and particularly of an incident in the early 1960s which supposedly almost led to World War III, when NATO radars were detecting several UFOs which came from the direction of what was then East Germany and which were thought to be Russian military aircraft, while the Russians thought that they were NATO planes.

He then goes on to mention some things in military files that were shown to him by one of his superior officers while he was on duty at SHAPE, but then he also starts addressing such things as an alien presence at the Pentagon — supposedly these aliens are indistinguishable from humans, but still sufficiently different in terms of life expectancy and abilities — but those are not first-hand experiences, and then he ultimately also throws in his own personal experiences as a contactee. The latter however is something he only started talking about a few years ago, in the last interview he did with Project Camelot. Before that, he never spoke of anything other than the military angle.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by bsbray

When I say I think we've already been on Mars, and both in modern and ancient times, I'm basing that on a variety of other information from several other people and sources. There are some odd facts from ancient history here on Earth that provide some circumstantial evidence for the case to be made. A little more solidly, there are photos of the surface of Mars that show anomalies with regular geometries (other than the famous face and more difficult to explain) and I also take corroborating double-blind remote viewing data from multiple viewers as evidence (the Farsight Institute has provided that, with results that indicate modern military/engineering operations at ancient ruins on Mars -- again all "in the blind" and with multiple viewers). The idea of a planetary-scale catastrophe ending any Martian civilization doesn't seem to contradict evidence of severe trauma to the surface of Mars and its atmosphere either, so that's another piece of circumstantial evidence to fit with the rest.

---

Well, I personally pay less attention to any data gathered through remote viewing, because remote viewing has its own set of problems on account of ascertaining facts or truths. The biggest problem with that appears to be that data obtained through remote viewing could potentially come from alternate realities or time lines and may thus not apply here in our situation, however real the information is.

What I do however agree with is the other information you speak of. The geometric artifacts, certain things from our history here on Earth, et al. And well, to myself, the acronym NASA does indeed stand for "Never A Straight Answer". :p

Quote:

---

Originally posted by bsbray

I've grown to distrust whistleblowers too for obvious reasons. I don't have the time to try to vet everybody so I'm afraid I have to just throw the baby out with the bath water on that one and let other people worry about it. You'll notice none of the things I mention above rely on "whistleblower" testimony. I don't really even want it anymore, except maybe just for a lead for ideas to try verify by other means. :p

---

Well, some of them are credible — you should really check out Clifford Stone — but they've gathered a great deal of coat tail riders along the way, and so now it's really hard to tell the wheat from the chaff anymore. ;)

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Aragorn

Well, I personally pay less attention to any data gathered through remote viewing, because remote viewing has its own set of problems on account of ascertaining facts or truths. The biggest problem with that appears to be that data obtained through remote viewing could potentially come from alternate realities or time lines and may thus not apply here in our situation, however real the information is.

---

The Farsight Institute has techniques for establishing controls. For example, it has a program where they take in people who are learning to remote view and give them known targets to test their abilities, that can be immediately verified from information in the historical record. On their channel you can watch one girl who went through this program RV'ing known targets like the San Francisco earthquake and fires, the Japanese surrender ceremony on the USS Missouri, Notre Dame in Paris, etc. The other guys who do targets, from what I understand, are doing lots of different targets in between the "interesting" ones to provide a sort of control over the whole process. So they have put a lot of thought into data control and have even explored the idea of remote viewing other realities/timelines in at least one of their projects, and found that the way in which targets are assigned plays a role in that.

They really strive to keep everything as scientific and rigorous as possible, and as Courtney Brown explains it, what they do is actually better than double-blind conditions because he will assign targets to people before he has even set the target himself, and still get accurate and corroborating results from his viewers which are then published on their website. It'd be like a lab scientist getting results for his experiments before he even knew what the experiment was going to be. But if consciousness is really non-temporal and non-local, then this makes sense and shouldn't be a surprise.

The fact that US military and intelligence was using RV'ing for at least ten years or so, before public exposure around the early 1990's had them announce that they were going to close down the program (as if they wouldn't just classify it more strictly) is also pretty interesting to consider. They had other outlandish-sounding (at least at first hearing) programs that they discontinued after a lack of success, so it begs the question of why, if they hadn't had satisfactory results, they would continue it for at least a decade even as they shut other experimental projects down.

The reason I don't bother with whistleblowers so much anymore is that I don't have time between university work and trying to get solid info on the subjects that really interest me. Just looking at more solid sources, from unsuspecting academic types, there is an enormous amount of valuable and neglected information both online and in old musty books. Even if 50% of whistleblowers of the PC/PA variety are legit, I'm still wasting an enormous amount of time, many hours, on nonsense, as I in fact already have. It's not even easy to tell what part is nonsense and what part is someone describing a genuine experience they believe that they've had. It almost requires each person being interviewed to have their testimony broken down and studied in detail, just to venture a guess as to whether or not this person seems to even believe what they're saying or if the information seems internally consistent enough to not just dismiss out of hand. And even in the best case scenario following that, there's still no promise that any of it is accurate unless verification comes from something more tangible.


Here's the session where one of their young viewers has been assigned the USS Missouri surrender ceremony:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPJ996gwl6A

NoNo Arnold was on mars.
Put your arse on to mars.

also was put to mars:
6 parts little BLDC Motors from Company Maxon swiss.

Quote:

---

24-hour cycle we have here on Earth.

---

Aragorn there are 23 hours 56 minutes and 44 seconds in a day

sidereal calendar which is only way to measure time space movement all others are bull...... time measured by the movement of the stars
Its a great topic of how someone made up ( our ) time or even a ( our ) calendar ancient way is Sidereal which works ( measurable effect i.e. real ).:back to topic:

:scp:

I like this documentary. It was interesting to see how passionate he felt about going to mars. Enjoyed this, very interesting added it to my favorite and playlist.