We Can Save The World! Let's Start Here!

Apologies I jumped in and all over this thread... I was attracted to it by the title because I knew the title implied Level III. My posts were intended to point out the import of Level I. Peterson is involved in Level I (Spirit and spirit individualized) every bit as much as Wilber... they both wish for a better Level III (physical world).

My sources for my views are legion but, because, like Jordan Peterson believes, I am 100% responsible for everything I think, speak/write and do, I have developed my own designators which I use to describe the structure of being as I see it.

I have recently experienced a solidification of my views when it all came together after contemplatively reading the book - The Science of Mind by Ernest Holmes

[Conclusion: As David Icke emphasized from way, way back...
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yes, that is why at a minimum the 'commons' need to be aware that these levels of development even exist and what value each holds. One has to be aware of at least that. What contemplative thought would call 'The Unknowing knowing' or 'Ignorant elightenment'. I have experienced this in my own life, just that level of development alone gives us the 'hook' to higher growth. As for Peterson, well, my level of development doesn't allow to be forgiving of those that won't forgive. It would seem that Peterson is enough of a social phenomenon, a memetic phenomenon, that he has gotten the attention of highly developed thinkers like Wilbert. What they tend to 'not' say about Peterson in a straightforward fashion is that he is angry and twisting the truth of social developmental processes OR he simply doesn't understand it due to his own stage of growth. He is an emotional child...I've watched Wilbert dance around this reality for about a half hour now.

The meta is the reality and where truth actually lives...let's spread the word. :) and work towards cultural integration. I think you have a good start and I hope I do as well.

Does Jung's concept of and emphasis on archetypes play a role?

hmm, good question...well, it certainly is a deep aspect of human psychology as would be evolutionary memetics...just as a thought, it might be that archetypes are the first meme, the template for abstract cultural evolution?? A product of the transition from animal genetics to human memetics. The archaic beginning, as all things have their archaic origins. Obviously we don't stay in place we evolve as Wilber points out in one of those videos, we amalgamate the old with the 'novel' which is spurred on by the creative spark.

At the bottom of it though has to be a recognition that the human species moves forward by moving away from its animal origins which are completely dependent on Darwinian evolution, Dominance hierarchy, a.k.a. Kill or be killed but in balance of course, as if there is such a thing that could be an evolutionary fit for a quasi thinking rational 'thing'.

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Originally posted by NotAPretender

As for Peterson, well, my level of development doesn't allow to be forgiving of those that won't forgive.

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And so by your logic, you should never be forgiven. I am fortunate that I don't have to forgive you because, guess what? I understand you... and thus, through understanding, I never need to judge. And because I don't judge you, I don't have to forgive you, NAP.

Fortunately, unless you have changed your mind (we all have that right), there's hope for me...

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Originally posted by NotAPretender

Sammy your sense of humor tells me there is great hope for you

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also...

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Originally posted by NotAPretender

It would seem that Peterson is enough of a social phenomenon, a memetic phenomenon, that he has gotten the attention of highly developed thinkers like Wilbert. What they tend to 'not' say about Peterson in a straightforward fashion is that he is angry and twisting the truth of social developmental processes OR he simply doesn't understand it due to his own stage of growth.

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Is that fact or your opinion? That I am raising this question might be taken that I am angry. Or, could I just be trying to make the world better by suggesting you consider it such?

Note that anger is a normal emotion for an individualized Spirit being that is experiencing this physical reality through a physical body. I recently experienced a plethora of emotions including anger due to an ex-boyfriend of my step-daughter who went on a six month stalking spree (death threats and all) whereby he ended up arrested by the police and is (as of today) still in the Dallas County jail -

You can look him up here - scroll to the bottom and click Continue which takes you to a new page where, if you scroll down to the middle, you can insert his Bookin Number - 19031284 and click Search by Bookin Number, Now click the blue box with his name and you can see the details.

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Originally posted by NotAPretender

He is an emotional child...I've watched Wilbert dance around this reality for about a half hour now.

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Am I able to suggest that you might be emotionally caught up in the video? If so, can I share my opinion that as long as you recognize this and work though a potential emotional disturbance you are doing the best you should?

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Originally posted by NotAPretender

The meta is the reality and where truth actually lives...let's spread the word. :) and work towards cultural integration. I think you have a good start and I hope I do as well.

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I hear things like this often and I wonder to myself... are they saying -

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As long as you think like I think you should, you are deemed culturally integrated.

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lol, no what you're saying is perfectly legitimate...poor me... :)

I forgive everyone actually...it is one of my worst faults actually, no one could ever do anything bad enough to me (emphasis on me) that I wouldn't forgive. And Peterson obviously can't help himself, but do I forgive him his ignorance and his ability to lead society in a completely errant direction?

Opinion or fact: a study in epistemology, huh. I can't reach into Peterson's mind but if consensus can be considered a valid epistemological measure, then I'm leaning toward fact. But ultimately I can't ever know, unless and until Peterson admits his motivation.

What I'm SUGGESTING is that the meta of things is by definition a 'synthesis' and under enough pressure it is a manifestation of the 'dialectic'. Thesis and Antithesis.

Hey Sammy,

I don't know if you recognize my signature thing but I stole that from David Icky.

One of the very misleading things about current local society is that 'emotionality' is a bad thing. I disagree, emotion is a fundamental aspect of 'humanity'. Emotion filters every thought, we can't avoid it. Those that try to run from that reality are suffering a form of pathology. It's called "Intellectualization"

David Davenport, Hoover fellow and coauthor of How Public Policy Became War, analyzes how presidents have too readily declared war (on terror, drugs, poverty, you name it) and called the nation into crisis, partly to tackle the problem and partly to increase their own power.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAgDDoLOf9U

I have yet to peruse the latest posts here, looking forward. :)

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Originally posted by NotAPretender

Hey Sammy,

I don't know if you recognize my signature thing but I stole that from David Icky.

One of the very misleading things about current local society is that 'emotionality' is a bad thing. I disagree, emotion is a fundamental aspect of 'humanity'. Emotion filters every thought, we can't avoid it. Those that try to run from that reality are suffering a form of pathology. It's called "Intellectualization"

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Make sure it is understood that I view emotions as quite real and quite necessary. What is sad (to me) is when I see humans allowing themselves to be disproportionately controlled by their emotions. I call these folks, the emotionally vulnerable. In reviewing my life I come from a background where I was mostly running on emotions. I was never able to deal with that issue until I stopped using drugs and alcohol. I am only now starting to find that peaceful middle ground they often call "balance" whereby emotions and intellect are cooperating such that my thoughts, words (written and spoken) and actions appear to be "good" for others and secondarily (as I wish to place myself) in a world that holds the individual 100% responsible for such in accordance with their capacity to be so.

My opinion is that Ken is right... Green has not integrated Orange (and below) but has instead repressed Orange. This is what the landscape looks like today and sadly I also agree with Ken in that this will likely end up in war (unless the masses muster up a massive consciousness shift - again, just my opinion).

A related comment - another opinion... it appears to me that all political movements attempt to manipulate the emotionally vulnerable into voting in "a power" (a political party which can be in cahoots with other political parties). It is not the only tactic, but it is quite a major tactic.

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Originally posted by Sammy

A related comment - another opinion... it appears to me that all political movements attempt to manipulate the emotionally vulnerable into voting in "a power" (a political party which can be in cahoots with other political parties). It is not the only tactic, but it is quite a major tactic.

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Essentially what we are treated to, as a definite propagative meme, is that half of us are running around like chickens with our heads cut off and while that might be true for me, the rest of the real world doesn't function like this...It is a treated aberration used by those that would divide and conquer because of a need fomented in stunted spiritual and behavioral growth. Let's not fall for this.

As Wilber asserts contrary to conventional wisdom the Universe does not seek entropy, it seeks development, a building of order out of chaos, progression, we ourselves are evidence of this...life on Earth started as microbes and grew in complexity and scope. And now we are here as Schmactenberger points out, the microbes of post modernity. So, it seems to me that the Universe indeed seeks complexity at least to the level that we as 3d beings can apprehend.

I assert that self responsibility is as natural as breathing, as natural as the Sun rising in the morning. Wilber explained the 4 Quadrants of evolutionary experience. The interior and the exterior. And the We and the Us in opposition to the I and Them. So, from the exterior I or the exterior Them we see, if we so choose, a failure to take responsibility and from the interior We or Us, we find our desire to be self-responsible stifled or repressed by external, perhaps we could call it unfair usurpation of our sovereign rights as human beings.

From a more mundane level we surely in clear conscience can't demand that a slave be self-responsible, the two paradigms are in direct opposition, now and forever. This is a patent failure of society and again it is emblematic of both the level of behavioral and spiritual growth that we choose to entertain. As Chomsky says, it isn't magical or mystical, it is a choice. I say we make the right choices.

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Originally posted by NotAPretender

As Wilber asserts contrary to conventional wisdom the Universe does not seek entropy, it seeks development, a building of order out of chaos, progression, we ourselves are evidence of this...

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The universe does not seek entropy, but it generates entropy as a side-effect of generating order. It has to do this, because you cannot have complexity and sophistication without entropy. Life itself is one big entropy generator.

Think of it as the peeling of a banana. The farther you pull the peel down in order to expose the edible flesh of the fruit, the more of the peel you'll have in your hand.

Computers are similar. The longer a computer has been running, the more entropy it generates, and this entropy is then used in the encryption of passwords, filesystems (if and where applicable), and digital signatures. Computers that have only just booted up have relatively low entropy. The more you use the computer, the more entropy it generates. ;)

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Originally posted by Dreamtimer

:amen:

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Well, there you have it, that's my problem. I'm willing to look like a fool to demonstrate my faith in humanity...I must have a buy point though... :)

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Originally posted by Aragorn

The universe does not seek entropy, but it generates entropy as a side-effect of generating order. It has to do this, because you cannot have complexity and sophistication without entropy. Life itself is one big entropy generator.

Think of it as the peeling of a banana. The farther you pull the peel down in order to expose the edible flesh of the fruit, the more of the peel you'll have in your hand.

Computers are similar. The longer a computer has been running, the more entropy it generates, and this entropy is then used in the encryption of passwords, filesystems (if and where applicable), and digital signatures. Computers that have only just booted up have relatively low entropy. The more you use the computer, the more entropy it generates. ;)

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Entropy for use in encryption...that's definitely a new one on me...with a little thought it does make some sense to me.

In truth, creating order out of chaos is a limited phenomena in that it occurs in open systems? but on a larger scale that doesn't seem to hold...but what do we know...really. :)

Short list of folks who have been making a difference.

Michael Wood jr., working to fight police brutality.

Boyan Slat, engineering a net system to gather plastic pollution from the oceans.

Greta Thunberg, bringing awareness of climate change to the world.

David Hogg, et al, working to reduce gun violence in America.

This is a short list off the top of my head. They are all relatively young. And that's just how it should be. The youth is always our future.

And most importantly, they aren't drowning in cynicism. As are so many folks in my generation.

Keep up the good work!

Some folks have picked up on Greta's speech to the UN:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kD1zubg3cA

(normally I can't stand metal, but this one I can listen to)

Boyan Slat was discussed on this forum. He's the young man from the Netherlands who developed the net system to collect plastics from the Ocean.

The mainstream media is now recognizing some success from his project.

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After a series of setbacks, a system for catching plastic floating in the Pacific between California and Hawaii is now working, its Dutch inventor said Wednesday.

Boyan Slat, a university dropout who founded The Ocean Cleanup nonprofit, announced that the floating boom is skimming up waste ranging in size from a discarded net and a car wheel complete with tire to chips of plastic measuring just 1 millimeter.

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After it was towed out to sea last year, the barrier did not catch any trash in its first weeks of operation because it was moving at the same speed as the plastic. That problem was overcome by using an underwater parachute anchor to slow the boom so it catches quicker moving trash.

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Also, late last year, the barrier broke under the constant pummeling by wind and waves in the Pacific, requiring four months of repairs before being relaunched from Vancouver in June.

The system also experienced a problem with “overtopping” _ waves that pushed the plastic over the line of floating corks that hold the screen. That was solved by using a line of larger corks to corral the plastic.

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https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=h...jpg&f=1&nofb=1

Boyan turned his eye to the source of plastics, the world's largest rivers which flow through heavily populated parts of the world, all in Asia.

He's collecting massive amounts of plastic from these rivers with equipment he already developed, adapted to river rather than ocean use.


In other nature/climate news, Greta Thunberg recently won a prestigious award worth a million dollars which she donated to her foundation. This is the exact opposite of self-dealing where a person, i.e. Trump, takes money donated to a foundation and uses it for him or herself.

Here is Greta talking to Stephen:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Brtog4AABBg