Agreed, that is another leg of the phenomena. Dr. Jacques Vallee is the man on that one. I read a book earlier this year by a new guy exploring that angle. I'll post his name and the book's name when I have a chance ... :)
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Certain sources claim that ET's would not allow a full blown nuclear war and they would again defuse the warheads.
Only a limited nuclear strike might be allowed, but I wonder why that would be because there would be possibly retaliation.
yeah, to me that defies logic. I would question that. :)
Here's an interesting factoid: One of the few places on the globe that has never reported any type of 'wildman' (i.e. bigfoot, sasquatch, yeti ... etc) is Hawaii. My 'joke' regarding that is that the aliens are disguised as tourists there. :)
Why thank you Fred ... you are a fine gentleman ... :) now that you know how sensitive I am about being wrong ... :)
Just being pedantic here, but the word Jinn/Djinn is plural already. The singular is Jinni/Djinni. :)
But then again, as Arthur C. Clarke said...
"Any sufficiently advanced technology would be indistinguishable from magic."
:eyebrows:
Yup, that make sense and basically we would agree more or less then.
Thanks for the correction, thinking both in Finnish and English is somewhat confusing to me at times.
Often it's written as djinn or jinn. In Finnish it would be Jinni and Jinnit in plural. I suppose the word genie is derived from Djinn too.
That is correct, and it doesn't take a whole lot of imagination to see how that came about. All it takes is Americans. :p :ttr:
Do however note that the myth of the Jinn is already very old — it goes back to way before the creation of Islam — and that the Jinn were not necessarily regarded as evil in those days. For most part, their disposition resembles that of humans — some are good, some are bad, and yet others are somewhere in between — but they are non-corporeal, magical beings and therefore, they are also bound by the laws of traditional magic.
It was only under Judaism first and especially under Islam later that Jinn became equated with evil. In Islam, the character of the Devil — the Shaítan — is a Jinni called Iblis, although Islam concretely leaves the door open as to whether Jinn would be fallen angels or a separate category of beings all of their own.
Given that Arabian mythology goes back thousands of years, I'd say that Jinn had probably never been regarded as angels — fallen or otherwise — before Islam came along, but that they were instead regarded as being a completely separate category of (non-corporeal) life-forms, more akin to the spirits of nature as also encountered in the pre-Christian, pantheistic Greek and Roman mythologies, which in turn were borrowing a lot from each other.
I do too.
That may or may not be, but I'm always curious why people might think that. Is it just speculation as to the timing of the Roswell incident, with Truman being president during that time frame in the late 40's, and Roosevelt coming to roost right after that starting in '53? Or is it because of a well documented trickster named Richard "Rick" Doty who was central to the release of the MJ 12 material?
https://www.sacred-texts.com/ufo/hastings.htmQuote:
First, it has been established that "Falcon", one of the principle sources of the MJ-12 material, is Richard C. Doty, formerly attached to District 17 Air Force Office of Special Investigations (AFOSI) at Kirtland Air Force Base, Albuquerque, New Mexico. Sgt. Doty retired from the U.S. Air Force on October 1, 1988.
How do I know that Doty is "Falcon"? During a recent telephone conversation, Linda Moulton Howe told me that when Sgt. Doty invited her to his office at Kirtland AFB in early April 1983, and showed her a purportedly authentic U.S. Government document on UFOs, he identified himself as code-name "Falcon" and stated that it was Bill Moore who had given him that name.
Also, in early December 1988, a ranking member of the production team responsible for the "UFO Cover Up? -- Live" television documentary confirmed that Doty is "Falcon". This same individual also identified the second MJ-12 source who appeared on the program, "Condor", as Robert Collins who was, until recently, a Captain in the U.S. Air Force. Like Doty, he was stationed at KAFB when he left the service late last year.
Both Doty and Collins deny any involvement in the MJ-12 affair. However, Linda Howe has issued a sworn affidavit, agreeing to testify under penalty of perjury, relating to the events during the course of her meeting with Richard "Falcon" Doty at KAFB in 1983 (Enclosures A and B). Thus far, Doty has *not* issued a sworn affidavit, or agreed to testify under penalty of perjury, to re-enforce his denial that the events of his meeting with Howe occured as she has described them.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Majestic_12Quote:
The concept of "Majestic 12" emerged during a period in the 1980s when ufologists believed there had been a cover-up of the Roswell UFO incident and speculated some secretive upper tier of the United States government was responsible.[3] Shandera and his ufologist colleagues Stanton T. Friedman and Bill Moore say they later received a series of anonymous messages that led them to find what has been called the "Cutler/Twining memo" in 1985 while searching declassified files in the National Archives. Purporting to be written by President Eisenhower's assistant Robert Cutler to General Nathan F. Twining and containing a reference to Majestic 12, the memo is widely held to be a forgery, likely planted as part of a hoax.[6] Historian Robert Goldberg wrote that the ufologists came to believe the story despite the documents being "obviously planted to bolster the legitimacy of the briefing papers".[3]
Claiming to be connected to the United States Air Force Office of Special Investigations, a man named Richard Doty told filmmaker Linda Moulton Howe that the MJ-12 story was true, and showed Howe unspecified documents purporting to prove the existence of small, grey humanoid aliens originating from the Zeta Reticuli star system. Doty reportedly promised to supply Howe with film footage of UFOs and an interview with an alien being, although no footage ever materialized.[3]
Soon, distrust and suspicion led to disagreements within the ufology community over the authenticity of the MJ-12 documents, and Moore was accused of taking part in an elaborate hoax, while other ufologists and debunkers such as Philip J. Klass were accused of being "disinformation agents".[4]
https://www.yourcentralvalley.com/ne...ive-interview/Quote:
Richard Doty is one of the most controversial figures in the history of the UFO. Doty had a 20-year career with the Air Force, including years as a special agent for the Air Force Office of Special Investigations (AFOSI). During that time, he was assigned to conduct surveillance on a scientist, Paul Bennewitz, who had inadvertently acquired information about a classified Air Force program. Doty admits he fed disinformation to Bennewitz and to other UFO researchers. forged documents, and muddied the waters.
Since leaving military service, Doty worked as a police officer and has been the subject of numerous articles and documentaries. He has long been considered a poster child for UFO disinformation, that is, false information about UFOs distributed by the Pentagon. His fingerprints are seen — justifiably or not — on nearly every new source of UFO information that surfaces.
In 2019, Doty was invited to speak at UFO Mega Con, a large UFO conference in Laughlin, Nevada. In his presentation, he acknowledged participating in surveillance of UFO groups and in disseminating false information.
So we have it established that Rick Doty played a cetral roll in putting out the MJ 12 material. But there's more:
Of particular interest to some people, myself included, was a central role he played in the release of the "Project Serpo" material back around 2005-2006. This is how Doty describes the Serpo material, with its foundation set firmly upon his previous MJ 12 material, but widely broadening its scope to involve an elaborate astronaut exchange program in the 1960's with the same supposed alien race from the Roswell incident.
Some may recall that Bill Ryan was not only the lead man in the Serpo story being splashed all over the headlines of the ufo community in '06:
From Bill:
https://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/s...ndex_serpo.htmQuote:
The information began to be released on 2 November 2005 by a retired senior official within the US Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA) who calls himself “Anonymous”. Until he chooses to make his name known, this is the way he will be represented here. Anonymous reports that he is not acting individually and is part of a group of six DIA personnel working together as an alliance: three current and three former employees. He is their chief spokesman.
But here's even more. What few know is that Doty himself was highly suspected as playing the role of the original source of the material, "Anonymous". From the unfortunately now defunct research forum "Reality Uncovered":
https://www.ufodigest.com/article/th...serpo-part-ii/Quote:
“All of the information presented to Victor Martinez and Bill Ryan by ‘Request Anonymous’ came in fact from Richard C. Doty. Martinez may have suspected Doty’s involvement, but Bill Ryan knew from the very start that he was getting the Serpo material directly from the former AFOSI security guard. Doty has continuously denied being involved in the story, despite the mountains of evidence to the contrary. In addition to Doty, Martinez and Ryan, the behind the scenes ‘Team of Five’ who collaborated extensively on the project is completed by Dr. Christopher ‘Kit’ Green – a former analyst with the CIA, and physicist Dr. Harold (Hal) E. Puthoff.
“The material to follow will show that Serpo was not a lone-gunman operation, but collaboration between three friends, who between them already had many years’ experience of scamming the UFO community. This investigation, told in full for the first time, is the precursor to our main report into the Imaginary Intelligence Agency, a group also known under the name Scammers Inc.”
http://www.realityuncovered.net/ufology/articles/serpo/
Funny how this kind of stuff tends to wind up full circle in the alternative community, and most especially, the ufo faction of it. Spooks abound, including in a small group called "The Team Of Five" that was behind the scenes pushing the Serpo narrative. The main team consisted of:
- Bill Ryan - Presenter of the Serpo information.
- Rick Doty - Ex Air Force Intelligence
- Kit Green - Ex CIA
- Hal Puthoff - Ex NSA
- Victor Martinez - Tough to pin down his past, though he was said to be an ex school teacher. But it was from his email group of supposedly around 150 people that Bill Ryan, "Anonymous", and likely every other character in this tale originated from came from.
There's a long chain available of their back and forths. A sample here, interesting as they seem okay with an up and coming Kerry Cassidy soon to hit the scene, which will sweep Bill off to a new Project when the going gets tough with the Serpo Project in a year's time, this next one will be "Project Camelot". But at the very least, this email chain solidly confirms that Bill Ryan was working very closely with our friend Rick Doty of "MJ 12/Project Serpo" fame:
Quote:
From: Green, Christopher [cgreen@xxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: 25 April 2006 12:43
To: Victor Martinez; Bill Ryan
Cc: >Bill; >Hal Puthoff; >RickDoty
Subject: RE: Kerry Cassidy is OK, 10-4 in my book!
Great! I wanna believe...I wanna believe. Thanks.
But, at one time or another we have been told that there was "absolutely no
problem with": Steve, Kelly, WJ, Shawanna, Zep Tepi, Val, Scott and several
others...need I say more?
How much did you two guys tell this lady about Hal, Rick, Kit...use our names
ever? Say what we were doing with the Team of Five? Give our backgrounds or
credentials? Any of our emails?
I hope "10-4 in your book" is from a book that has a second chapter and an
index, and that you have read it thoroughly before passing the book on.
-----Original Message-----
From: Victor Martinez [mailto:victorgm@xxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 12:12 AM
To: Bill Ryan
Cc: >Bill; Green, Christopher; >Hal Puthoff; >Rick Doty
Subject: Re: Kerry Cassidy is OK, 10-4 in my book!
DOC G:
I met Kerry with Bill for six hrs, 10 min last Wednesday; very nice lady and her
insights during our marathon meeting were a valued contribution.
No problema here! -
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------
From: Victor Martinez [victorgm@xxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: 25 April 2006 15:32
To: Green, Christopher
Cc: >Hal Puthoff; >Rick Doty; Contact@serpo.org
Subject: RE: Kerry Cassidy is OK, 10-4 in my book!
9
Attachments: Kerry Cassidy is OK, 10-4 in my book! (1.62 KB)
DOC G:
As to what Bill has told and not said to Kerry is something Bill will have to
disclose to you. I found her pleasant, so that's all I can offer to you.
So anyway you guys, I could go on but you get the gist of it by now. Hope you've found some of this of interest. A lot of this kind of stuff requires some reading between the lines (like seeing a gatekeeper operation in action), but a lot is rather black and white as well. Make of it what you will.
It is a video from the Travel TV station ... American I suppose. It is a pretty good recounting of really hardcore mass sightings from around the world. South Africa, Zimbabwe, The Lonnie Zamora event in New Mexico, etc. with the real players. A pretty good video. About an hour long.
Phenomenom, it is on youtube and an informative watch.